Messages for 13 December 2007

Subject	Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college
From	Helen Saggers
Date	Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:44:14 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C83D21.489B1FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SP cost of learning a college>It (cost at The Guild) appears to be = undefined, so, 'good question'! Whatever deal a GM will provide for = training from an NPC of course applies, as do deals you do with PCs = (there was an ad in the SGT this season I think?). >So whatever we think reasonable - we can justify almost anything. = During Character gen it is effectively free. At standard cost of skill = training its 150 x 26 weeks (3,900)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp = divided by at least 2 weeks, weapon training is cheaper still. That's just it under 7.10 The colleges of magic, Learning College Magic = it gives the 6 months an 6500 ep but no where was it defined how much it = costs. Just the cost of relearning Gk ones.=20 Surely the cost of learning a college must have come up in the past..... = Since the ep cost and time are standard I wondered if there was a = convention for cost... =20 >Free is a bit on the nose in comparison to people that have to re-learn = GK spells, but I don't think we want to discourage people. Couple of = thousand for flavour? In theory since all other training though the guild has a cost so this = must too... I suppose you could extrapolate from the cost of relearning GK spells = and the number of GK spells and ritual in the college.... giving you a = value of 3300-5400sp for most of the colleges, for Namers with all = those counterspells it would be 8700sp; this may explain why every = other person you meet isn't one given the MA requirements so low. But a simple Standard cost to learn any and all the colleges seems so = much cleaner. With the player guide up for reprint if there is or we can decide on a = convention this would be a good time to add it...... =20 So the next poor sod who changes or learns a college doesn't have to = wonder. Helen ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C83D21.489B1FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>SP cost of learning a college</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16544" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>>It (cost at The Guild) appears to be undefined, = so, 'good=20 question'! Whatever deal a GM will provide for training from an NPC of = course=20 applies, as do deals you do with PCs (there was an ad in the SGT this = season I=20 think?).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>>So whatever we think reasonable - we can justify = almost=20 anything. During Character gen it is effectively free. At standard cost = of skill=20 training its 150 x 26 weeks (3,900)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp = divided by=20 at least 2 weeks, weapon training is cheaper still.</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>That's just it under 7.10 The = colleges of magic,=20 Learning College Magic it gives the 6 months an 6500 ep but no where was = it=20 defined how much it costs. Just<FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2> the = cost of=20 relearning Gk ones. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Surely the=20 cost of learning a college must have come up in the = past.....=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Since the ep cost and time are = standard I=20 wondered if there was a convention for cost...  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>>Free is a bit on the nose in comparison to = people that=20 have to re-learn GK spells, but I don't think we want to discourage = people.=20 Couple of thousand for flavour?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In theory since all other training = though the=20 guild has a cost so this must too...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I suppose you could extrapolate from = the cost of=20 relearning GK spells and the number of GK spells and ritual in the = college....=20 giving you a value of 3300-5400sp  for most of the colleges,  = for=20 Namers with all those counterspells  it would be 8700sp; this may = explain=20 why every other person you meet isn't one given the MA requirements so=20 low.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>But a simple Standard cost to learn any and all the = colleges=20 seems so much cleaner.</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>With the player guide up for reprint if there = is or we=20 can decide on a convention this would be a good time to add = it...... =20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>So the next poor sod who changes or learns a college = doesn't=20 have to wonder.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Helen</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C83D21.489B1FC0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college
From	RMansfield@ingnz.com
Date	Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:21:27 +1300
--=_alternative 006A8BA5CC2573AF_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would go with the 150 sp per week that is the general cost for undefined = training as per section 4 of the Players Guide. That makes makes it 3600=20 sp (ignoring holdidays). Regards, Rosemary Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz>=20 Sent by: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz 12/12/2007 05:05 p.m. Please respond to dq@dq.sf.org.nz To dq@dq.sf.org.nz cc Subject [dq] SP cost of learning a college <snip>=20 >=20 > After this season and that 5th point of MA I plan to have her=20 > learn the mind=20 > collage and get rid of a large chunk of that 58,447 unspent=20 > ep balance.=20 >=20 > Speaking of which I know its going to cost 6500 ep and take=20 > six months for=20 > the college, whats the financial cost of this ?=20 >=20 It (cost at The Guild) appears to be undefined, so, 'good question'!=20 Whatever deal a GM will provide for training from an NPC of course=20 applies, as do deals you do with PCs (there was an ad in the SGT this=20 season I think?). So whatever we think reasonable - we can justify almost anything. During=20 Character gen it is effectively free. At standard cost of skill training=20 its 150 x 26 weeks (3,900)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp divided by at=20 least 2 weeks, weapon training is cheaper still. Free is a bit on the nose in comparison to people that have to re-learn GK = spells, but I don't think we want to discourage people. Couple of thousand = for flavour? Cheers=20 Errol=20 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=20 This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=20 Attention: This message and accompanying data are confidential and may cont= ain information that is subject to legal privilege. If you are not the inte= nded recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution = or copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have received this= email in error, please notify us immediately and erase all copies of the m= essage and attachments. This email and any attachments may contain views or= opinions that are those of the sender and not necessarily the view or opin= ions of ING (NZ) Limited and/or its associated entities. = --=_alternative 006A8BA5CC2573AF_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">I would go with the 150 sp per week that is the general cost for undefined training as per section 4 of the Players Guide.  That makes makes it 3600 sp (ignoring holdidays).</fon= t><br><br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Regards,<br>Rosemary<br></font= ><br><br><br><table width=3D100%><tr valign=3Dtop><td width=3D40%><font siz= e=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz></b></f= ont><br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Sent by: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</= font><p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">12/12/2007 05:05 p.m.</font><tab= le border><tr valign=3Dtop><td bgcolor=3Dwhite><div align=3Dcenter><font si= ze=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Please respond to<br>dq@dq.sf.org.nz</font></div= ></table><br><td width=3D59%><table width=3D100%><tr valign=3Dtop><td><div = align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div><td><font s= ize=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</font><tr valign=3Dtop><td><div= align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div><td><tr va= lign=3Dtop><td><div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subjec= t</font></div><td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">[dq] SP cost of learni= ng a college</font></table><br><table><tr valign=3Dtop><td><td></table><br>= </table><br><br><br><font size=3D2><snip></font><font size=3D3> </fon= t><p><font size=3D2>> <br>> After this season and that 5th point of M= A I plan to have her <br>> learn the mind <br>> collage and get rid o= f a large chunk of that  58,447 unspent <br>> ep balance.</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2><br>> <= br>> Speaking of which I know its going to cost 6500 ep and take <br>&gt= ; six months for <br>> the college, whats the financial cost of this ?</= font><font size=3D3></font><font size=3D2><br>> </font><p><p><font size= =3D2>It (cost at The Guild) appears to be undefined, so, 'good question'! Whatever deal a GM will provide for training from an NPC of course applies, as do deals you do with PCs (there was an ad in the SGT this season I think?).</font><p><font size=3D2>So whatever we think reasona= ble - we can justify almost anything. During Character gen it is effectively free. At standard cost of skill training its 150 x 26 weeks (3,900)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp divided by at least 2 weeks, weapon training is cheaper still.</font>= <p><font size=3D2>Free is a bit on the nose in comparison to people that have to re-learn GK spells, but I don't think we want to discourage people. Couple of thousand for flavour?</font><p><font size=3D2>Cheers</font><font = size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2><br>Errol</font><font size=3D3> </font><p><= font size=3D3><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -= - <br>This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs.<br>For furt= her information visit http://www.messagelabs.com<br>- - - - - - - - - - - -= - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </font><p><font face=3D"sans-serif"><B= R><BR><FONT Size=3D1><BR>Attention: This message and accompanying data are = confidential and may contain information that is subject to legal privilege= . If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dis= semination, distribution or copying of this message or data is prohibited. = If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and = erase all copies of the message and attachments. This email and any attachm= ents may contain views or opinions that are those of the sender and not nec= essarily the view or opinions of ING (NZ) Limited and/or its=20 associated entities.<BR></FONT> </font> --=_alternative 006A8BA5CC2573AF_=-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:43:09 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83CF7.39788D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Any Namer that pays 300sp to re-learn a GK spell is a mug (unless it's something non-standard) - they just have to Divinate an adept or an effect of the college to learn both counters. The cost of a slap-up meal for 2 and an evening not training is so much better than 300 (or 600) sp and 2-5 weeks. If you can't make friends with an adept, you just need another Namer for a (half) day. Cheers Errol -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of Helen Saggers Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2007 00:44 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college >It (cost at The Guild) appears to be undefined, so, 'good question'! Whatever deal a GM will provide for training from an NPC of course applies, as do deals you do with PCs (there was an ad in the SGT this season I think?). >So whatever we think reasonable - we can justify almost anything. During Character gen it is effectively free. At standard cost of skill training its 150 x 26 weeks (3,900)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp divided by at least 2 weeks, weapon training is cheaper still. That's just it under 7.10 The colleges of magic, Learning College Magic it gives the 6 months an 6500 ep but no where was it defined how much it costs. Just the cost of relearning Gk ones. Surely the cost of learning a college must have come up in the past..... Since the ep cost and time are standard I wondered if there was a convention for cost... >Free is a bit on the nose in comparison to people that have to re-learn GK spells, but I don't think we want to discourage people. Couple of thousand for flavour? In theory since all other training though the guild has a cost so this must too... I suppose you could extrapolate from the cost of relearning GK spells and the number of GK spells and ritual in the college.... giving you a value of 3300-5400sp for most of the colleges, for Namers with all those counterspells it would be 8700sp; this may explain why every other person you meet isn't one given the MA requirements so low. But a simple Standard cost to learn any and all the colleges seems so much cleaner. With the player guide up for reprint if there is or we can decide on a convention this would be a good time to add it...... So the next poor sod who changes or learns a college doesn't have to wonder. Helen ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83CF7.39788D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE>SP cost of learning a college</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><SPAN class=503412619-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Any Namer that pays 300sp to re-learn a GK spell is a mug (unless it's something non-standard) - they just have to Divinate an adept or an effect of the college to learn both counters. The cost of a slap-up meal for 2 and an evening not training is so much better than 300 (or 600) sp and 2-5 weeks. If you can't make friends with an adept, you just need another Namer for a (half) day.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=503412619-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=503412619-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=503412619-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Helen Saggers<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 13 December 2007 00:44<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>>It (cost at The Guild) appears to be undefined, so, 'good question'! Whatever deal a GM will provide for training from an NPC of course applies, as do deals you do with PCs (there was an ad in the SGT this season I think?).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>>So whatever we think reasonable - we can justify almost anything. During Character gen it is effectively free. At standard cost of skill training its 150 x 26 weeks (3,900)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp divided by at least 2 weeks, weapon training is cheaper still.</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>That's just it under 7.10 The colleges of magic, Learning College Magic it gives the 6 months an 6500 ep but no where was it defined how much it costs. Just<FONT color=#0000ff size=2> the cost of relearning Gk ones. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Surely the cost of learning a college must have come up in the past..... </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Since the ep cost and time are standard I wondered if there was a convention for cost...  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>>Free is a bit on the nose in comparison to people that have to re-learn GK spells, but I don't think we want to discourage people. Couple of thousand for flavour?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>In theory since all other training though the guild has a cost so this must too...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I suppose you could extrapolate from the cost of relearning GK spells and the number of GK spells and ritual in the college.... giving you a value of 3300-5400sp  for most of the colleges,  for Namers with all those counterspells  it would be 8700sp; this may explain why every other person you meet isn't one given the MA requirements so low.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>But a simple Standard cost to learn any and all the colleges seems so much cleaner.</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>With the player guide up for reprint if there is or we can decide on a convention this would be a good time to add it......  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>So the next poor sod who changes or learns a college doesn't have to wonder.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Helen</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83CF7.39788D80-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:18:32 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83CFC.2A739860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" No discount for bulk? 150/week is the most expensive GK spell per week (anything with an EM over 100 is cheaper per week). SK magic is more expensive of course, but weapons are cheaper (rank 10 is 1,000sp for 20 weeks). The default rate for skill training looks like the maximum we should charge. Although I've just realised that the 6 months training presumably takes both training tracks? We should probably make that clear. So on that basis 3,500 - 4,000 feels right to me. If we feel that this might be a barrier to PCs, it should be lower. If you are are changing college, then the new one might subsidise you!! :-) A standard of 4k, with a note that The Guild may charge less on occasion? Cheers Errol -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of RMansfield@ingnz.com Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2007 08:21 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college I would go with the 150 sp per week that is the general cost for undefined training as per section 4 of the Players Guide. That makes makes it 3600 sp (ignoring holdidays). Regards, Rosemary Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> Sent by: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz 12/12/2007 05:05 p.m. Please respond to dq@dq.sf.org.nz To dq@dq.sf.org.nz cc Subject [dq] SP cost of learning a college <snip> > > After this season and that 5th point of MA I plan to have her > learn the mind > collage and get rid of a large chunk of that 58,447 unspent > ep balance. > > Speaking of which I know its going to cost 6500 ep and take > six months for > the college, whats the financial cost of this ? > It (cost at The Guild) appears to be undefined, so, 'good question'! Whatever deal a GM will provide for training from an NPC of course applies, as do deals you do with PCs (there was an ad in the SGT this season I think?). So whatever we think reasonable - we can justify almost anything. During Character gen it is effectively free. At standard cost of skill training its 150 x 26 weeks (3,900)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp divided by at least 2 weeks, weapon training is cheaper still. Free is a bit on the nose in comparison to people that have to re-learn GK spells, but I don't think we want to discourage people. Couple of thousand for flavour? Cheers Errol - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Attention: This message and accompanying data are confidential and may contain information that is subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and erase all copies of the message and attachments. This email and any attachments may contain views or opinions that are those of the sender and not necessarily the view or opinions of ING (NZ) Limited and/or its associated entities. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83CFC.2A739860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>No discount for bulk? 150/week is the most expensive GK spell per week (anything with an EM over 100 is cheaper per week). SK magic is more expensive of course, but weapons are cheaper (rank 10 is 1,000sp for 20 weeks). The default rate for skill training looks like the maximum we should charge.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Although I've just realised that the 6 months training presumably takes both training tracks? We should probably make that clear.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So on that basis 3,500 - 4,000 feels right to me. If we feel that this might be a barrier to PCs, it should be lower.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If you are are changing college, then the new one might subsidise you!! :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>A standard of 4k, with a note that The Guild may charge less on occasion?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=935244419-12122007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of</B> RMansfield@ingnz.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 13 December 2007 08:21<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>I would go with the 150 sp per week that is the general cost for undefined training as per section 4 of the Players Guide.  That makes makes it 3600 sp (ignoring holdidays).</FONT><BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Regards,<BR>Rosemary<BR></FONT><BR><BR><BR> <TABLE width="100%"> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD width="40%"><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz></B></FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Sent by: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>12/12/2007 05:05 p.m.</FONT> <TABLE border=1> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD bgColor=white> <DIV align=center><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Please respond to<BR>dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT></DIV></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></P> <TD width="59%"> <TABLE width="100%"> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>To</FONT></DIV> <TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>cc</FONT></DIV> <TD> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Subject</FONT></DIV> <TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>[dq] SP cost of learning a college</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR> <TABLE> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT size=2><snip></FONT><FONT size=3> </FONT> <P><FONT size=2>> <BR>> After this season and that 5th point of MA I plan to have her <BR>> learn the mind <BR>> collage and get rid of a large chunk of that  58,447 unspent <BR>> ep balance.</FONT><FONT size=3> </FONT><FONT size=2><BR>> <BR>> Speaking of which I know its going to cost 6500 ep and take <BR>> six months for <BR>> the college, whats the financial cost of this ?</FONT><FONT size=3></FONT><FONT size=2><BR>> </FONT> <P> <P><FONT size=2>It (cost at The Guild) appears to be undefined, so, 'good question'! Whatever deal a GM will provide for training from an NPC of course applies, as do deals you do with PCs (there was an ad in the SGT this season I think?).</FONT> <P><FONT size=2>So whatever we think reasonable - we can justify almost anything. During Character gen it is effectively free. At standard cost of skill training its 150 x 26 weeks (3,900)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp divided by at least 2 weeks, weapon training is cheaper still.</FONT> <P><FONT size=2>Free is a bit on the nose in comparison to people that have to re-learn GK spells, but I don't think we want to discourage people. Couple of thousand for flavour?</FONT> <P><FONT size=2>Cheers</FONT><FONT size=3> </FONT><FONT size=2><BR>Errol</FONT><FONT size=3> </FONT> <P><FONT size=3><BR>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <BR>This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs.<BR>For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com<BR>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </FONT> <P><FONT face=sans-serif><BR><BR><FONT size=1><BR>Attention: This message and accompanying data are confidential and may contain information that is subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and erase all copies of the message and attachments. This email and any attachments may contain views or opinions that are those of the sender and not necessarily the view or opinions of ING (NZ) Limited and/or its associated entities.<BR></FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83CFC.2A739860-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college
From	Helen Saggers
Date	Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:01:26 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C83D66.BE119140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Then you have not been reading your Players Guide on page 4 under = Character Generation 1.11 joining the guild. It states "It is presumed that the guild charges for this training but = we don't make characters start play in debt." Its probable that the cost of learning a college any college is Std. = just like the cost of relearning GK spells. So that the only thing that influences the new members choice of college = is their MA, as its to the guilds advantage to have a spread. And that = the cost is far less than one might be charged elsewhere, as you say = trained adventurers are an investment. The Std cost of relearning a GK spell may well be 300sp because its a = 1/13th of the std cost of learning a college.=20 (As people seem to like the150spx26wks =3D 3900 and 3900sp/300=3D13) Helen ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RPer 4eva=20 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college Thats how I always understood it. The guild teaches the colleges for = free and you pay taxes that more than offset the investment. Dylan = =20 On Dec 12, 2007 10:53 PM, ian at dawn haven <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> = wrote: I would have thought some sort of free teaching of general knowledge = stuff and colleges. It is a good investment for the guild.=20 Ian ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C83D66.BE119140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16587" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Then  you have not been reading = your Players=20 Guide on page 4 under Character Generation 1.11 joining the = guild.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It states "It is presumed that the = guild charges=20 for this training but we don't make characters start play in = debt."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Its probable that the cost of learning = a college=20 any college is Std. just like the cost of relearning GK = spells.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So that the only thing that influences = the new=20 members choice of college is their MA, as its to the guilds advantage to = have a=20 spread. And that the cost is far less than one might be charged = elsewhere, as=20 you say trained adventurers are an investment.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Std cost of relearning a GK spell = may well be=20 300sp because its a 1/13th  of the std cost of learning a college.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(As people seem to like the150spx26wks = =3D 3900 and=20 3900sp/300=3D13)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dmsnoverflow@gmail.com = href=3D"mailto:msnoverflow@gmail.com">RPer=20 4eva</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20 href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 12, = 2007 11:00=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] SP cost of = learning a=20 college</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Thats how I always understood it. The guild teaches the colleges = for free=20 and you pay taxes that more than offset the investment.</DIV> = <DIV>Dylan          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;           &nbsp= ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;          =20 <BR><BR></DIV> <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Dec 12, 2007 10:53 PM, ian at dawn haven = <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</A>> = wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: = #ccc 1px solid">I=20 would have thought some sort of free teaching of general knowledge=20 stuff<BR>and colleges. It is a good investment for the guild. = <BR><FONT=20 = color=3D#888888><BR>Ian</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT= ML> ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C83D66.BE119140-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college
From	Ian Wood
Date	Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:57:05 +1100 (EST)
--0-189189025-1197496625=:983 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable if we have to charge, then someone will point out that non-mages should sta= rt with a similar amount of money to spend on equipment or such.=0Aif we ha= ve to charge, then something related to the 6500 ep would help. something l= ike 6,500 sp. which lets face is it nothing for most adventurers.=0A=0AA si= mple interpretation of the rules is that the lack of financial cost reflect= s a decision to not charge for the training. =0A=0AMy preference is still f= or zero sp cost and 6500 ep, as that approximates both what is in the rules= and the financial impact on the PC.=0A=0AIan=0A=0A=0A----- Original Messag= e ----=0AFrom: Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz>=0ATo: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=0ASe= nt: Thursday, 13 December, 2007 9:18:32 AM=0ASubject: Re: [dq] SP cost of l= earning a college=0A=0A=0ANo discount for bulk? 150/week is the most expens= ive GK spell per week (anything with an EM over 100 is cheaper per week). S= K magic is more expensive of course, but weapons are cheaper (rank 10 is 1,= 000sp for 20 weeks). The default rate for skill training looks like the max= imum we should charge.=0A =0AAlthough I've just realised that the 6 months = training presumably takes both training tracks? We should probably make tha= t clear.=0A =0ASo on that basis 3,500 - 4,000 feels right to me. If we feel= that this might be a barrier to PCs, it should be lower.=0AIf you are are = changing college, then the new one might subsidise you!! :-)=0A =0AA standa= rd of 4k, with a note that The Guild may charge less on occasion?=0A =0AChe= ers=0AErrol=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mai= lto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of RMansfield@ingnz.com=0ASent: Thursda= y, 13 December 2007 08:21=0ATo: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=0ASubject: Re: [dq] SP cost= of learning a college=0A=0A=0A=0AI would go with the 150 sp per week that = is the general cost for undefined training as per section 4 of the Players = Guide. That makes makes it 3600 sp (ignoring holdidays).=0A=0ARegards,=0AR= osemary=0A=0A=0A=0AErrol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz>=0ASent by: dq-owner@dq= ..sf.org.nz =0A12/12/2007 05:05 p.m. Please respond to=0Adq@dq.sf.org.nz=0A= =0ATodq@dq.sf.org.nz =0Acc=0ASubject[dq] SP cost of learning a college=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A<snip> =0A> =0A> After this season and that 5th point = of MA I plan to have her =0A> learn the mind =0A> collage and get rid of a = large chunk of that 58,447 unspent =0A> ep balance. =0A> =0A> Speaking of = which I know its going to cost 6500 ep and take =0A> six months for =0A> th= e college, whats the financial cost of this ?=0A> =0AIt (cost at The Guild)= appears to be undefined, so, 'good question'! Whatever deal a GM will prov= ide for training from an NPC of course applies, as do deals you do with PCs= (there was an ad in the SGT this season I think?). =0ASo whatever we think= reasonable - we can justify almost anything. During Character gen it is ef= fectively free. At standard cost of skill training its 150 x 26 weeks (3,90= 0)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp divided by at least 2 weeks, weapon tra= ining is cheaper still. =0AFree is a bit on the nose in comparison to peopl= e that have to re-learn GK spells, but I don't think we want to discourage = people. Couple of thousand for flavour? =0ACheers =0AErrol =0A=0A- - - - - = - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =0AThis e-mail has been s= canned for viruses by MessageLabs.=0AFor further information visit http://w= ww.messagelabs.com=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - = - - - =0A=0A=0A=0AAttention: This message and accompanying data are confide= ntial and may contain information that is subject to legal privilege. If yo= u are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, disseminat= ion, distribution or copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you = have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and erase a= ll copies of the message and attachments. This email and any attachments ma= y contain views or opinions that are those of the sender and not necessaril= y the view or opinions of ING (NZ) Limited and/or its associated entities. --0-189189025-1197496625=:983 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he= ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;= font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman= , new york, times, serif">if we have to charge, then someone will point out= that non-mages should start with a similar amount of money to spend on equ= ipment or such.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times n= ew roman, new york, times, serif">if we have to charge, then something rela= ted to the 6500 ep would help. something like 6,500 sp. which lets face is = it nothing for most adventurers.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FON= T-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV>=0A<DIV styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"= >A simple interpretation of the rules is that the lack of financial cost re= flects a decision to not charge for the training. </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FO= NT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> = </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new y= ork, times, serif">My preference is still for zero sp cost and 6500 ep, as = that approximates both what is in the rules and the financial impact o= n the PC.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new rom= an, new york, times, serif"> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; F= ONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Ian<BR><BR></DIV>=0A<D= IV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times,= serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.= co.nz><BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>Sent: Thursday, 13 December, 2007 9:18:= 32 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college<BR><BR>=0A<DIV><SP= AN class=3D935244419-12122007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>N= o discount for bulk? 150/week is the most expensive GK spell per week (anyt= hing with an EM over 100 is cheaper per week). SK magic is more expensive o= f course, but weapons are cheaper (rank 10 is 1,000sp for 20 weeks). The de= fault rate for skill training looks like the maximum we should charge.</FON= T></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN class=3D935244419-12122007><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN class=3D93= 5244419-12122007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Although I've = just realised that the 6 months training presumably takes both training tra= cks? We should probably make that clear.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN c= lass=3D935244419-12122007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FON= T></SPAN> </DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN class=3D935244419-12122007><FONT face=3D= Arial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>So on that basis 3,500 - 4,000 feels right t= o me. If we feel that this might be a barrier to PCs, it should be lower.</= FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN class=3D935244419-12122007><FONT face=3DAri= al color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If you are are changing college, then the new o= ne might subsidise you!! :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN class=3D93524= 4419-12122007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nb= sp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN class=3D935244419-12122007><FONT face=3DArial color= =3D#0000ff size=3D2>A standard of 4k, with a note that The Guild may charge= less on occasion?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN class=3D935244419-12122= 007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>= =0A<DIV><SPAN class=3D935244419-12122007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff= size=3D2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN class=3D935244419-1212200= 7><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<= BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-L= EFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHe= ader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR>= <B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Beha= lf Of</B> RMansfield@ingnz.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 13 December 2007 0= 8:21<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] SP cost of l= earning a college<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>= I would go with the 150 sp per week that is the general cost for undefined = training as per section 4 of the Players Guide.  That makes makes it 3= 600 sp (ignoring holdidays).</FONT><BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2= >Regards,<BR>Rosemary<BR></FONT><BR><BR><BR>=0A<TABLE width=3D"100%">=0A<TB= ODY>=0A<TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD width=3D"40%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size= =3D1><B>Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz></B></FONT><BR><FONT face=3D= sans-serif size=3D1>Sent by: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> =0A<P><FONT face= =3Dsans-serif size=3D1>12/12/2007 05:05 p.m.</FONT> =0A<TABLE border=3D1>= =0A<TBODY>=0A<TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD bgColor=3Dwhite>=0A<DIV align=3Dcenter= ><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Please respond to<BR>dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FON= T></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></P>=0A<TD width=3D"59%">=0A<TABLE wi= dth=3D"100%">=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD>=0A<DIV align=3Dright><FO= NT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>=0A<TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif= size=3D1>dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> =0A<TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD>=0A<DIV align= =3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>=0A<TD>=0A<TR vAli= gn=3Dtop>=0A<TD>=0A<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Subj= ect</FONT></DIV>=0A<TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>[dq] SP cost of lea= rning a college</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>=0A<TABLE>=0A<TBODY>=0A= <TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD>=0A<TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TD></TR></TB= ODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT size=3D2><snip></FONT><FONT size=3D3> <= /FONT>=0A<P><FONT size=3D2>> <BR>> After this season and that 5th poi= nt of MA I plan to have her <BR>> learn the mind <BR>> collage and ge= t rid of a large chunk of that  58,447 unspent <BR>> ep balance.</F= ONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT size=3D2><BR>> <BR>> Speaking of whi= ch I know its going to cost 6500 ep and take <BR>> six months for <BR>&g= t; the college, whats the financial cost of this ?</FONT><FONT size=3D3></F= ONT><FONT size=3D2><BR>> </FONT>=0A<P>=0A<P><FONT size=3D2>It (cost at T= he Guild) appears to be undefined, so, 'good question'! Whatever deal a GM = will provide for training from an NPC of course applies, as do deals you do= with PCs (there was an ad in the SGT this season I think?).</FONT> =0A<P><= FONT size=3D2>So whatever we think reasonable - we can justify almost anyth= ing. During Character gen it is effectively free. At standard cost of skill= training its 150 x 26 weeks (3,900)? Re-learning GK spells are 300sp divid= ed by at least 2 weeks, weapon training is cheaper still.</FONT> =0A<P><FON= T size=3D2>Free is a bit on the nose in comparison to people that have to r= e-learn GK spells, but I don't think we want to discourage people. Couple o= f thousand for flavour?</FONT> =0A<P><FONT size=3D2>Cheers</FONT><FONT size= =3D3> </FONT><FONT size=3D2><BR>Errol</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT>=0A<P><F= ONT size=3D3><BR>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - = - <BR>This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MessageLabs.<BR>For furth= er information visit http://www.messagelabs.com<BR>- - - - - - - - - - - - = - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </FONT>=0A<P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif><B= R><BR><FONT size=3D1><BR>Attention: This message and accompanying data are = confidential and may contain information that is subject to legal privilege= .. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dis= semination, distribution or copying of this message or data is prohibited. = If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and = erase all copies of the message and attachments. This email and any attachm= ents may contain views or opinions that are those of the sender and not nec= essarily the view or opinions of ING (NZ) Limited and/or its associated ent= ities.<BR></FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR></DIV></div= ></body></html> --0-189189025-1197496625=:983-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:24:24 +1300
------=_Part_4446_9214997.1197509064669 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Dec 13, 2007 10:57 AM, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > A simple interpretation of the rules is that the lack of financial cost > reflects a decision to not charge for the training. > The simplest interpretation of the rules would surely be that the lack of a specified financial cost (and the omission of a specified zero cost) reflects the lack of a decision around the issue. > > My preference is still for zero sp cost and 6500 ep, as that approximates > both what is in the rules and the financial impact on the PC. > I tend to agree. The Guild (apparently) does not charge for college training when pig-dung covered peasants roll up to the door, presumably in the hope of getting their investment repaid through future taxes. Why then should they charge members in good standing for the same service? Conversely, if the plan is to make it zero sum whether one starts as a Mage or starts as a Non-Mage and then learns a College -- shouldn't the fee be equivalent to that which the Non-Mage would / should have paid for their basic package skills and weapons training? Cheers, Martin ------=_Part_4446_9214997.1197509064669 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Dec 13, 2007 10:57 AM, Ian Wood <<a href="mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</a>> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"> </div> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">A simple interpretation of the rules is that the lack of financial cost reflects a decision to not charge for the training.</div></div></div> </blockquote><div><br>The simplest interpretation of the rules would surely be that the lack of a specified financial cost (and the omission of a specified zero cost) reflects the lack of a decision around the issue.<br></div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"> </div> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"> </div> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">My preference is still for zero sp cost and 6500 ep, as that approximates both what is in the rules and the financial impact on the PC.</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br>I tend to agree.  The Guild (apparently) does not charge for college training when pig-dung covered peasants roll up to the door, presumably in the hope of getting their investment repaid through future taxes.  Why then should they charge members in good standing for the same service? <br><br>Conversely, if the plan is to make it zero sum whether one starts as a Mage or starts as a Non-Mage and then learns a College -- shouldn't the fee be equivalent to that which the Non-Mage would / should have paid for their basic package skills and weapons training? <br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br></div></div><br> ------=_Part_4446_9214997.1197509064669-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] SP cost of learning a college
From	Ian Wood
Date	Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:52:33 +1100 (EST)
--0-18404212-1197528753=:66274 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A simple interpretation of the rules is that the lack of financial cost ref= lects a decision to not charge for the training.=0A>The simplest interpreta= tion of the rules would surely be that the lack of a specified financial co= st (and the omission of a specified zero cost) reflects the lack of a decis= ion around the issue.=0A=0Anononononono, no.=0A=0Athat is what those who wi= sh to add to the rules want us to assume, that the rule crafters were omiss= ..=0A=0AI prefer to beleive that those who crafted mighty pens to the paper = were thorough and obtuse, spending hours deliberating small points of order= and lesser substance.\=0A=0AAnd I still play?=0A=0AIan --0-18404212-1197528753=:66274 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he= ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;= font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman= , new york, times, serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: ti= mes new roman, new york, times, serif">=0A<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>=0A<BLOC= KQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt = 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FO= NT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=0A<DI= V style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, = serif">A simple interpretation of the rules is that the lack of financial c= ost reflects a decision to not charge for the training.</DIV></DIV></DIV></= BLOCKQUOTE>=0A<DIV>>The simplest interpretation of the rules would surel= y be that the lack of a specified financial cost (and the omission of a spe= cified zero cost) reflects the lack of a decision around the issue.<BR></DI= V>=0A<DIV>nononononono, no.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>that is what t= hose who wish to add to the rules want us to assume, that the rule crafters= were omiss.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>I prefer to beleive that thos= e who crafted mighty pens to the paper were thorough and obtuse, spending h= ours deliberating small points of order and lesser substance.\</DIV>=0A<DIV= > </DIV>=0A<DIV>And I still play?</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>Ian= </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></div></body></html> --0-18404212-1197528753=:66274-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --