SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromKeith Smith
DateMon, 03 Mar 2008 07:24:44 +1300
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>In my experience the Mage Current spell is usually interpreted as 
>moving the ship *instead* of any sailing or skill effect, so in your 
>analogy, you have a choice of walking or using the escalator. Martin 
>is suggesting a decreased effect that *stacks* with (non-magical) 
>movement, which is not how I have ever seen it played. If a number 
>of GMs play the present (current!) Mage Current spell as being in 
>addition to any non-magical movement, then that would change the 
>nature of Martin's proposal, but this is the first that I've heard 
>of that interpretation. Can we get an idea of the number of GM who believe:
>
>(a) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its normal movement, 
>and that's good.
>(b) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its normal movement, 
>and that's bad.
>(c) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship in addition to its normal movement.
>(d) 2007 Mage Current is a EM 125 multi-target instant death spell.
>
>I'm putting Martin & me down for (b), Helen for (c), and William 
>tentatively down for (d).

The way I've seen it, the Mage Current drags the ship - and anything 
else in the area of effect - along with it at the speed of the Mage 
Current  - which means the ship may as well have all the sails down. 
If they're up ... I guess the ship is treated as under sail in a 
standard current and the prevailing wind could work against the 
current, causing undue stress on the ship.  The current going with 
the wind I don't think adds any additional speed ... but I've never 
actually sailed a ship so I'm not sure on the physics involved... and 
trying to maneuvre a ship with just mage current is .. rather tricky. 
I think it's called inertia.

So .... I think you can put me down for 'b'  .. I'd like to see some 
factor added in for the skill of the water mage/navigator ... makes 
ranking the skill just that bit more worthwhile.

Keith

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<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""><font size=2 color="#0000FF">In
my experience the Mage Current spell is usually interpreted as moving the
ship *instead* of any sailing or skill effect, so in your analogy, you
have a choice of walking or using the escalator. Martin is suggesting a
decreased effect that *stacks* with (non-magical) movement, which is not
how I have ever seen it played. If a number of GMs play the present
(current!) Mage Current spell as being in addition to any non-magical
movement, then that would change the nature of Martin's proposal, but
this is the first that I've heard of that interpretation. Can we get an
idea of the number of GM who believe:<br>
</font>&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2 color="#0000FF">(a) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead
of its normal movement, and that's good.<br>
(b) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its normal movement, and
that's bad. <br>
(c) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship in addition to its normal
movement.<br>
(d) 2007 Mage Current is a EM 125 multi-target instant death spell.<br>
</font>&nbsp;<br>
<font size=2 color="#0000FF">I'm putting Martin &amp; me down for (b),
Helen for (c), and William tentatively down for
(d).</font></blockquote><br>
The way I've seen it, the Mage Current drags the ship - and anything else
in the area of effect - along with it at the speed of the Mage
Current&nbsp; - which means the ship may as well have all the sails down.
If they're up ... I guess the ship is treated as under sail in a standard
current and the prevailing wind could work against the current, causing
undue stress on the ship.&nbsp; The current going with the wind I don't
think adds any additional speed ... but I've never actually sailed a ship
so I'm not sure on the physics involved... and trying to maneuvre a ship
with just mage current is .. rather tricky. I think it's called
inertia.<br><br>
So .... I think you can put me down for 'b'&nbsp; .. I'd like to see some
factor added in for the skill of the water mage/navigator ... makes
ranking the skill just that bit more worthwhile.<br><br>
Keith<br>
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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromStruan Judd
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 08:51:41 +1300
As a sailor, wind vs current is a truly entertaining situation.
Admitted my personal experience is from boats not ships, but I'm sure
the generalities are the same.

One very interesting thing is that if the ship/boat is able to sail
quite close to the wind (ie. sail effectively with the wind coming
from across the forward quarter), then some of the ships speed is
translated into effective windspeed. And thus the boat speed generated
by the mage current can translate into effective windspeed and thus
faster actual speed for the ship.

So I think this means I'd be a c) if it mattered during game and a b)
if I read the rules carefully.

TTFN, Struan

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Keith Smith <phaeton@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> In my experience the Mage Current spell is usually interpreted as moving the
> ship *instead* of any sailing or skill effect, so in your analogy, you have
> a choice of walking or using the escalator. Martin is suggesting a decreased
> effect that *stacks* with (non-magical) movement, which is not how I have
> ever seen it played. If a number of GMs play the present (current!) Mage
> Current spell as being in addition to any non-magical movement, then that
> would change the nature of Martin's proposal, but this is the first that
> I've heard of that interpretation. Can we get an idea of the number of GM
> who believe:
>
>  (a) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its normal movement, and
> that's good.
>  (b) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its normal movement, and
> that's bad.
>  (c) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship in addition to its normal movement.
>  (d) 2007 Mage Current is a EM 125 multi-target instant death spell.
>
>  I'm putting Martin & me down for (b), Helen for (c), and William
> tentatively down for (d).
>  The way I've seen it, the Mage Current drags the ship - and anything else
> in the area of effect - along with it at the speed of the Mage Current  -
> which means the ship may as well have all the sails down. If they're up ...
> I guess the ship is treated as under sail in a standard current and the
> prevailing wind could work against the current, causing undue stress on the
> ship.  The current going with the wind I don't think adds any additional
> speed ... but I've never actually sailed a ship so I'm not sure on the
> physics involved... and trying to maneuvre a ship with just mage current is
> .. rather tricky. I think it's called inertia.
>
>  So .... I think you can put me down for 'b'  .. I'd like to see some factor
> added in for the skill of the water mage/navigator ... makes ranking the
> skill just that bit more worthwhile.
>
>  Keith
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromMartin Dickson
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 10:06:06 +1300
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On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Helen Saggers <Helen@darksoft.co.nz> wrote:

>
> As I see it mage current is more like an escalator or moving walkway, it
> moves every thing on/in it forward, and any animate object/entity is free to
> move about on it forward backward or sideways as normal and may move out of
> the effect
> The effect moves with the mage that cast it so like a tank on its tracks
> the unpowered barge moves with the current.
>

Hi Helen,  your escalator analogy is exactly how I want the spell to be, and
what I wrote in my proposed rewording.  As Andrew has noted, this is not how
it is currently worded or played. (In my experience).

The proposed version would move each vessel at base + magic, meaning that
sail-less barges could still be moved with the spell, but could be caught by
a well-handled ship.

Cheers,
Martin

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On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Helen Saggers &lt;<a href="mailto:Helen@darksoft.co.nz">Helen@darksoft.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">






<div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">As I see it&nbsp;mage current is more like an 
escalator or moving walkway, it moves every thing on/in it forward,&nbsp;and any 
animate object/entity is free to move about on it forward backward or sideways 
as normal and may move out of the effect</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The effect moves with the mage that cast it so like 
a tank on its tracks the unpowered barge moves with the current.</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Hi Helen,&nbsp; your escalator analogy is exactly how I want the spell to be, and what I wrote in my proposed rewording.&nbsp; As Andrew has noted, this is not how it is currently worded or played. (In my experience).<br>
<br>The proposed version would move each vessel at base + magic, meaning that sail-less barges could still be moved with the spell, but could be caught by a well-handled ship.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromHelen Saggers
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 11:51:26 +1300
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I don't think this a case of the rules as writen limiting the movement =
of things in the water to effect that 'Mage Current moves a ship instead =
of its normal movement'. But that those not familuar with water craft =
and the effects of tides and currents are thinking of the water as a =
static thing, and the spell effect as moving the objects in the effect, =
like pushing a toy car across a floor.=20
Where as I see the water as fluid and the spell effect as described =
'creating a current' is moving not the objects but the water; moving the =
floor, toy car and all with the car free to move indepenantly under =
other effects upon it; ei. just like on an escalator

What we need to do is not so much change the spell as maybe add in a few =
words which point out this (obvious to me) effect of being in a current =
or moving body of water.
Some thing more like:

Effects: The Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a =
volume that moves with the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / Rank) in one =
direction. All objects/entities, etc. within the range that are =
submerged in the water or floating on the water are carried at the speed =
of the current. Carried objects/entities are free to move within this =
volume normally, as in a non magical current. This movement may =
effectively increase (or decrease) their overall speed or allow them to =
exit the effect. The Adept may freely alter the direction of the mage =
current during the spell (requires active concentration). Passive =
concentration is required to maintain this spell.

Surly that will fix your problem, rather than a complete change to the =
spell?

Helen

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Martin Dickson=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion


  On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Helen Saggers <Helen@darksoft.co.nz> =
wrote:


    As I see it mage current is more like an escalator or moving =
walkway, it moves every thing on/in it forward, and any animate =
object/entity is free to move about on it forward backward or sideways =
as normal and may move out of the effect
    The effect moves with the mage that cast it so like a tank on its =
tracks the unpowered barge moves with the current.

  Hi Helen,  your escalator analogy is exactly how I want the spell to =
be, and what I wrote in my proposed rewording.  As Andrew has noted, =
this is not how it is currently worded or played. (In my experience).

  The proposed version would move each vessel at base + magic, meaning =
that sail-less barges could still be moved with the spell, but could be =
caught by a well-handled ship.

  Cheers,
  Martin



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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV>I don't think&nbsp;this a case of the rules as writen =
limiting&nbsp;the=20
movement of&nbsp;things in the water&nbsp;to effect that 'Mage Current =
moves a=20
ship instead of its normal movement'. But that those not familuar with =
water=20
craft and the effects of tides and currents&nbsp;are thinking of the =
water as a=20
static thing, and the spell effect as moving the objects in the effect, =
like=20
pushing a toy car across a floor. </DIV>
<DIV>Where as I see the water as fluid and the spell effect as described =

'creating a current' is moving not the objects but the water; moving=20
the&nbsp;floor, toy car and all with the car free to move indepenantly =
under=20
other effects upon it; ei. just like on an escalator</DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What&nbsp;we need to do is not so much =
change the=20
spell as maybe add in a few words which point out this (obvious to me) =
effect of=20
being in a current or moving body of water.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some thing more like:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>Effects: The=20
Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a volume that =
moves with=20
the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / Rank) in one direction. All=20
objects/entities, etc. within the range that are submerged in the water =
or=20
floating on the water are carried at the speed of the current. =
<STRONG>Carried=20
objects/entities are free to move within this volume normally, as in a =
non=20
magical current. This movement may effectively increase (or decrease) =
their=20
overall speed or&nbsp;allow them to exit the effect.=20
</STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3>The Adept may freely alter the direction of the mage current =
during the=20
spell (requires active concentration). Passive concentration is required =
to=20
maintain this spell.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Surly that will fix your =
problem,=20
rather than a complete change to the spell?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></FONT>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmartin.dickson@gmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">Martin Dickson</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 03, 2008 =
10:06=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current =
--=20
  modification discussion</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Helen Saggers &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Helen@darksoft.co.nz">Helen@darksoft.co.nz</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
    <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As I see it&nbsp;mage current is =
more like an=20
    escalator or moving walkway, it moves every thing on/in it =
forward,&nbsp;and=20
    any animate object/entity is free to move about on it forward =
backward or=20
    sideways as normal and may move out of the effect</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The effect moves with the mage that =
cast it so=20
    like a tank on its tracks the unpowered barge moves with the=20
    current.</FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>Hi Helen,&nbsp; your escalator analogy is exactly how I want =
the=20
  spell to be, and what I wrote in my proposed rewording.&nbsp; As =
Andrew has=20
  noted, this is not how it is currently worded or played. (In my=20
  experience).<BR><BR>The proposed version would move each vessel at =
base +=20
  magic, meaning that sail-less barges could still be moved with the =
spell, but=20
  could be caught by a well-handled=20
  =
ship.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromMartin Dickson
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 12:15:27 +1300
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On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Helen Saggers <Helen@darksoft.co.nz> wrote:

>  I don't think this a case of the rules as writen limiting the movement
> of things in the water to effect that 'Mage Current moves a ship instead of
> its normal movement'. But that those not familuar with water craft and the
> effects of tides and currents are thinking of the water as a static thing,
> and the spell effect as moving the objects in the effect, like pushing a toy
> car across a floor.
>

Agreed, that is how most GMs are currently interpreting the spell.



> What we need to do is not so much change the spell as maybe add in a few
> words which point out this (obvious to me) effect of being in a current or
> moving body of water.
>

Also a reasonable solution.



> Some thing more like:
>
> Effects: The Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a
> volume that moves with the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / Rank) in one
> direction. All objects/entities, etc. within the range that are submerged in
> the water or floating on the water are carried at the speed of the current.
> *Carried objects/entities are free to move within this volume normally, as
> in a non magical current. This movement may effectively increase (or
> decrease) their overall speed or allow them to exit the effect. *The Adept
> may freely alter the direction of the mage current during the spell
> (requires active concentration). Passive concentration is required to
> maintain this spell.
>
> Surly that will fix your problem, rather than a complete change to the
> spell?
>

You added two sentences, I altered two sentences... I'm not sure my proposal
is a "complete change" and yours isn't (given the current common
interpretation of the spell effects).  :-)

However, I would be very happy to adopt your wording... provided the speed
of the current is dropped... otherwise, as we change from the current common
interpretation to your interpretation the speed of water-craft under a mage
current will effectively increase.  I'd suggest the speed change from 5 +1
to 2 +1/2.  :-)

Cheers,
Martin

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On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Helen Saggers &lt;<a href="mailto:Helen@darksoft.co.nz">Helen@darksoft.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">






<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">
<div>I don&#39;t think&nbsp;this a case of the rules as writen limiting&nbsp;the 
movement of&nbsp;things in the water&nbsp;to effect that &#39;Mage Current moves a 
ship instead of its normal movement&#39;. But that those not familuar with water 
craft and the effects of tides and currents&nbsp;are thinking of the water as a 
static thing, and the spell effect as moving the objects in the effect, like 
pushing a toy car across a floor.</div></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Agreed, that is how most GMs are currently interpreting the spell.<br><br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">

<div><font face="Arial" size="2">What&nbsp;we need to do is not so much change the 
spell as maybe add in a few words which point out this (obvious to me) effect of 
being in a current or moving body of water.</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Also a reasonable solution.<br><br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Some thing more like:</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Effects: The 
Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a volume that moves with 
the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / Rank) in one direction. All 
objects/entities, etc. within the range that are submerged in the water or 
floating on the water are carried at the speed of the current. <b>Carried 
objects/entities are free to move within this volume normally, as in a non 
magical current. This movement may effectively increase (or decrease) their 
overall speed or&nbsp;allow them to exit the effect. 
</b></font></font><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">The Adept may freely alter the direction of the mage current during the 
spell (requires active concentration). Passive concentration is required to 
maintain this spell.</font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"></font></font>&nbsp;</div><font face="Arial" size="2">
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Surly that will fix your problem, 
rather than a complete change to the spell?</font></div></font></div></blockquote><div><br>You added two sentences, I altered two sentences... I&#39;m not sure my proposal is a &quot;complete change&quot; and yours isn&#39;t (given the current common interpretation of the spell effects).&nbsp; :-)<br>
<br>However, I would be very happy to adopt your wording... provided the speed of the current is dropped... otherwise, as we change from the current common interpretation to your interpretation the speed of water-craft under a mage current will effectively increase.&nbsp; I&#39;d suggest the speed change from 5 +1 to 2 +1/2.&nbsp; :-)<br>
<br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br><br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromClare Baldock
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 13:50:32 +1300
Helen suggested

> Some thing more like:
>
> Effects: The Adept creates a current in the water within the range  
> (a volume that moves with the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / Rank)  
> in one direction. All objects/entities, etc. within the range that  
> are submerged in the water or floating on the water are carried at  
> the speed of the current. Carried objects/entities are free to move  
> within this volume normally, as in a non magical current. This  
> movement may effectively increase (or decrease) their overall speed  
> or allow them to exit the effect. The Adept may freely alter the  
> direction of the mage current during the spell (requires active  
> concentration). Passive concentration is required to maintain this  
> spell.

Martin counter-suggested

> However, I would be very happy to adopt your wording... provided the  
> speed of the current is dropped... otherwise, as we change from the  
> current common interpretation to your interpretation the speed of  
> water-craft under a mage current will effectively increase.  I'd  
> suggest the speed change from 5 +1 to 2 +1/2.  :-)

I prefer Helen's wording, but agree that the speed of the current  
needs to be reduced per Martin's suggestion,

Clare


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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromHelen Saggers
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 13:48:35 +1300
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All joking aside if you interpret the spell strictly as the mage current =
over rides normal movement of objects within it, it does become a cast =
of Mage Current is a EM 125 multi-target instant death spell.
I cast the spell on the volume around a ship and point the direction of =
the current down, the ship and its entier crew is then instantly dragged =
down under the sea, filling it with water and drowning the crew. No =
resistance No escape.

Okay so if you don't like the idea of instantly sinking a ship, and say =
that a sound ship floats regardless of current direction, I can still =
sink her I just need to drive her against some reef with my current. A =
bit of back and forth with current direction and I can smash the ship, =
any lifeboats or men in the water to pulp against the rocks. All while =
safely unseen under water where you can't attack shoot or target me, and =
there is no way to escape.

At least with my interpretantion the ship would still float in a down =
current unless there were other effects involved giving reason for her =
to founder, and its possible to move in opposition to the current to =
swim down and attack the mage or to slowly sail the ship out of the =
current and away from the reef.=20

Helen

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Andrew Withy=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 9:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion


  Helen,
  In my experience the Mage Current spell is usually interpreted as =
moving the ship *instead* of any sailing or skill effect, so in your =
analogy, you have a choice of walking or using the escalator. Martin is =
suggesting a decreased effect that *stacks* with (non-magical) movement, =
which is not how I have ever seen it played. If a number of GMs play the =
present (current!) Mage Current spell as being in addition to any =
non-magical movement, then that would change the nature of Martin's =
proposal, but this is the first that I've heard of that interpretation. =
Can we get an idea of the number of GM who believe:

  (a) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its normal movement, and =
that's good.
  (b) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its norEffects: The =
Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a volume that =
moves with the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / Rank) in one direction. =
All objects/entities, etc. within the range that are submerged in the =
water or floating on the water are carried at the speed of the current. =
The Adept may freely alter the direction of the mage current during the =
spell (requires active concentration). Passive concentration is required =
to maintain this spell.
  mal movement, and that's bad.=20
  (c) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship in addition to its normal movement.
  (d) 2007 Mage Current is a EM 125 multi-target instant death spell.

  I'm putting Martin & me down for (b), Helen for (c), and William =
tentatively down for (d).

  Andrew



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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All joking aside if you&nbsp;interpret =
the spell=20
strictly&nbsp;as the mage current over rides normal movement of objects =
within=20
it, it does become a cast of<FONT color=3D#0000ff> Mage Current is a EM =
125=20
multi-target instant death spell.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I cast the spell on the volume around a =
ship and=20
point the direction of the current down, the ship and its entier crew is =
then=20
instantly dragged down under the sea, filling it with water and drowning =
the=20
crew. No resistance No escape.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Okay so if you don't like the idea of =
instantly=20
sinking a ship, and say that a sound ship floats regardless of current=20
direction, I can still sink her I just need to drive her against some =
reef with=20
my current. A bit of back and forth with current direction and I can =
smash the=20
ship, any lifeboats or men in the water to pulp against the rocks. All =
while=20
safely unseen under water where you can't attack shoot or target me, and =
there=20
is no way to escape.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At least with my interpretantion the =
ship would=20
still&nbsp;float in a down current unless there were&nbsp;other effects =
involved=20
giving reason for her to founder, and its possible to move in opposition =
to the=20
current to swim down and attack the mage or to slowly&nbsp;sail the ship =
out of=20
the current and away from the reef. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dawithy@ihug.co.nz href=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">Andrew =
Withy</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 02, 2008 =
9:08=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current =
--=20
  modification discussion</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Helen,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In my experience the Mage Current spell is =
usually=20
  interpreted as moving the ship *instead* of any sailing or skill =
effect, so in=20
  your analogy, you have a choice of walking or using the escalator. =
Martin is=20
  suggesting a decreased effect that *stacks* with (non-magical) =
movement, which=20
  is not how I have ever seen it played. If a number of GMs play the =
present=20
  (current!) Mage Current spell as being in addition to any non-magical=20
  movement, then that would change the nature of Martin's proposal, but =
this is=20
  the first that I've heard of that interpretation. Can we get an idea =
of the=20
  number of GM who believe:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>(a) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of =
its normal=20
  movement, and that's good.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>(b) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of =
its=20
  norEffects: The Adept creates a current in the water within the range =
(a=20
  volume that moves with the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / Rank) in =
one=20
  direction. All objects/entities, etc. within the range that are =
submerged in=20
  the water or floating on the water are carried at the speed of the =
current.=20
  The Adept may freely alter the direction of the mage current during =
the spell=20
  (requires active concentration). Passive concentration is required to =
maintain=20
  this spell.<BR>mal movement, and that's bad.=20
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>(c) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship in =
addition to its=20
  normal =
movement.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>(d) 2007 Mage=20
  Current is a EM 125 multi-target instant death =
spell.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I'm putting Martin &amp; me down for (b), =
Helen for (c),=20
  and William tentatively down for (d).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><STRONG><FONT=20
    face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromHelen Saggers
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 14:19:54 +1300
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Martin=20
why the desire to reduce the speed?=20

A nautical mile is equal to 1.150779 miles and the best speed of many =
ships listed in the GMs guide is 8 or 9 knots or 9.2 or 10.3 mph so =
without a navigator they are doing 4.1-5.15mph, approximately a rank 0 =
mage current speed.

If the water mage is adding another 5 to a ship speed of 5.1mph for a =
total ship speed of 10 mph; or even 11mph (rank 6) to 7.7 mph (75% of =
its optimum speed, with rank 5 navigator) for a total ship speed of =
18.7mph what's the harm?
Flight spells start at 30mph (20 for instill flight).
Yes its a mass transport spell but then oceans are very big and if the =
GM doesn't want the party to travel that fast then the winds wrong or =
the seas too rough or whatever GM modifiers kick in to reduce the speed.
Even at maximum your adding 25mph to a ship speed of 10 or 11mph for a =
total of 35/36mph, half the speed of a max rank instill flight which is =
also mass transport, (although not a whole ship admittedly) and mage =
currents limited to water.

Helen

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Martin Dickson=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 12:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion


  On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Helen Saggers <Helen@darksoft.co.nz> =
wrote:

    I don't think this a case of the rules as writen limiting the =
movement of things in the water to effect that 'Mage Current moves a =
ship instead of its normal movement'. But that those not familuar with =
water craft and the effects of tides and currents are thinking of the =
water as a static thing, and the spell effect as moving the objects in =
the effect, like pushing a toy car across a floor.

  Agreed, that is how most GMs are currently interpreting the spell.

  =20
    What we need to do is not so much change the spell as maybe add in a =
few words which point out this (obvious to me) effect of being in a =
current or moving body of water.

  Also a reasonable solution.

  =20
    Some thing more like:

    Effects: The Adept creates a current in the water within the range =
(a volume that moves with the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / Rank) in =
one direction. All objects/entities, etc. within the range that are =
submerged in the water or floating on the water are carried at the speed =
of the current. Carried objects/entities are free to move within this =
volume normally, as in a non magical current. This movement may =
effectively increase (or decrease) their overall speed or allow them to =
exit the effect. The Adept may freely alter the direction of the mage =
current during the spell (requires active concentration). Passive =
concentration is required to maintain this spell.

    Surly that will fix your problem, rather than a complete change to =
the spell?

  You added two sentences, I altered two sentences... I'm not sure my =
proposal is a "complete change" and yours isn't (given the current =
common interpretation of the spell effects).  :-)

  However, I would be very happy to adopt your wording... provided the =
speed of the current is dropped... otherwise, as we change from the =
current common interpretation to your interpretation the speed of =
water-craft under a mage current will effectively increase.  I'd suggest =
the speed change from 5 +1 to 2 +1/2.  :-)

  Cheers,
  Martin




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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Martin </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>why the desire to reduce the speed? =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A&nbsp;nautical mile is equal to <FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>1.150779 miles and the best speed of =
many ships=20
listed in the GMs guide is 8 or 9 knots or 9.2 or 10.3 mph so without a=20
navigator they are doing 4.1-5.15mph,&nbsp;approximately a rank 0 mage =
current=20
speed.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>If the water=20
mage is adding another&nbsp;5 to a ship speed of 5.1mph for a total ship =
speed=20
of 10 mph; or&nbsp;even 11mph (rank 6) to </FONT></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>7.7 mph (75% of its =
optimum speed,=20
with rank 5 navigator)<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> for a total ship =
speed of 18.7mph=20
what's the harm?</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Flight spells start at 30mph (20 for instill=20
flight).</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes its a mass transport spell but then =
oceans are=20
very big and if the GM doesn't want the party to travel that fast then =
the winds=20
wrong or the seas too rough or whatever GM modifiers kick in to reduce =
the=20
speed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Even at maximum your adding 25mph to a ship speed =
of 10 or=20
11mph for a total of 35/36mph,&nbsp;half the speed of&nbsp;a max rank =
instill=20
flight which is also mass transport, (although not a whole ship=20
admittedly)&nbsp;and mage currents limited to =
water.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmartin.dickson@gmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">Martin Dickson</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 03, 2008 =
12:15=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current =
--=20
  modification discussion</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Helen Saggers &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Helen@darksoft.co.nz">Helen@darksoft.co.nz</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
    <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
    <DIV>I don't think&nbsp;this a case of the rules as writen =
limiting&nbsp;the=20
    movement of&nbsp;things in the water&nbsp;to effect that 'Mage =
Current moves=20
    a ship instead of its normal movement'. But that those not familuar =
with=20
    water craft and the effects of tides and currents&nbsp;are thinking =
of the=20
    water as a static thing, and the spell effect as moving the objects =
in the=20
    effect, like pushing a toy car across a=20
  floor.</DIV></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>Agreed, that is how most GMs are currently interpreting the=20
  spell.<BR><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
    <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What&nbsp;we need to do is not so =
much change=20
    the spell as maybe add in a few words which point out this (obvious =
to me)=20
    effect of being in a current or moving body of=20
  water.</FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>Also a reasonable solution.<BR><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
    <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some thing more like:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>Effects:=20
    The Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a volume =
that=20
    moves with the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / Rank) in one =
direction. All=20
    objects/entities, etc. within the range that are submerged in the =
water or=20
    floating on the water are carried at the speed of the current. =
<B>Carried=20
    objects/entities are free to move within this volume normally, as in =
a non=20
    magical current. This movement may effectively increase (or =
decrease) their=20
    overall speed or&nbsp;allow them to exit the effect. =
</B></FONT></FONT><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>The =
Adept may freely=20
    alter the direction of the mage current during the spell (requires =
active=20
    concentration). Passive concentration is required to maintain this=20
    spell.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D3></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
    <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Surly that will fix =
your problem,=20
    rather than a complete change to the=20
  spell?</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>You added two sentences, I altered two sentences... I'm not =
sure my=20
  proposal is a "complete change" and yours isn't (given the current =
common=20
  interpretation of the spell effects).&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>However, I =
would be=20
  very happy to adopt your wording... provided the speed of the current =
is=20
  dropped... otherwise, as we change from the current common =
interpretation to=20
  your interpretation the speed of water-craft under a mage current will =

  effectively increase.&nbsp; I'd suggest the speed change from 5 +1 to =
2=20
  +1/2.&nbsp;=20
:-)<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR><BR></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY><=
/HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromMartin Dickson
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 14:54:58 +1300
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On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Helen Saggers <Helen@darksoft.co.nz> wrote:

>  Martin
> why the desire to reduce the speed?
>

a) to balance natural ship speed and crew/navigator contribution against the
benefits of the magic.
b) it's a 125 EM General Knowledge spell.

 A nautical mile is equal to 1.150779 miles and the best speed of many ships
> listed in the GMs guide is 8 or 9 knots or 9.2 or 10.3 mph so without a
> navigator they are doing 4.1-5.15mph, approximately a rank 0 mage current
> speed.
>
> If the water mage is adding another 5 to a ship speed of 5.1mph for a
> total ship speed of 10 mph; or even 11mph (rank 6) to 7.7 mph (75% of its
> optimum speed, with rank 5 navigator) for a total ship speed of 18.7mphwhat's the harm?
> Flight spells start at 30mph (20 for instill flight).
>

Flight spells are single target (mostly) and 250+ EM Special Knowledge.


> Yes its a mass transport spell but then oceans are very big and if the GM
> doesn't want the party to travel that fast then the winds wrong or the seas
> too rough or whatever GM modifiers kick in to reduce the speed.
> Even at maximum your adding 25mph to a ship speed of 10 or 11mph for a
> total of 35/36mph, half the speed of a max rank instill flight which is also
> mass transport, (although not a whole ship admittedly) and mage currents
> limited to water.
>

And the magic (soapbox: 125 EM GK spell) is counting for double the galleon
+ master navigator + full crew.  Too much.  (IMHO)

Your interpretation of the spell is also my preferred version.  It is not
however the way the spell is currently being played (in my experience).
Simply changing the wording to your wording (and making your interpretation
the explicit mechanic) would effectively increase all speeds.  My proposal
is based on the current common interpretation of the spell, and figured to
keep good ship speeds about the same as current speeds, while making the
magic and the ship count about the same.

Cheers,
Martin

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On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Helen Saggers &lt;<a href="mailto:Helen@darksoft.co.nz">Helen@darksoft.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">






<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Martin </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">why the desire to reduce the speed?</font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>a) to balance natural ship speed and crew/navigator contribution against the benefits of the magic.<br>b) it&#39;s a 125 EM General Knowledge spell.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>

<div><font face="Arial" size="2">A&nbsp;nautical mile is equal to <font face="Times New Roman" size="3">1.150779 miles and the best speed of many ships 
listed in the GMs guide is 8 or 9 knots or 9.2 or 10.3 mph so without a 
navigator they are doing 4.1-5.15mph,&nbsp;approximately a rank 0 mage current 
speed.</font></font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">If the water 
mage is adding another&nbsp;5 to a ship speed of 5.1mph for a total ship speed 
of 10 mph; or&nbsp;even 11mph (rank 6) to </font></font><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">7.7 mph (75% of its optimum speed, 
with rank 5 navigator)<font face="Arial" size="2"> for a total ship speed of 18.7mph 
what&#39;s the harm?</font></font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><font face="Arial" size="2">Flight spells start at 30mph (20 for instill 
flight).</font></font></font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Flight spells are single target (mostly) and 250+ EM Special Knowledge.<br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font></font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Yes its a mass transport spell but then oceans are 
very big and if the GM doesn&#39;t want the party to travel that fast then the winds 
wrong or the seas too rough or whatever GM modifiers kick in to reduce the 
speed.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><font face="Arial" size="2">Even at maximum your adding 25mph to a ship speed of 10 or 
11mph for a total of 35/36mph,&nbsp;half the speed of&nbsp;a max rank instill 
flight which is also mass transport, (although not a whole ship 
admittedly)&nbsp;and mage currents limited to water.</font></font></font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>And the magic (soapbox: 125 EM GK spell) is counting for double the galleon + master navigator + full crew.&nbsp; Too much.&nbsp; (IMHO)<br>
<br>Your interpretation of the spell is also my preferred version.&nbsp; It is not however the way the spell is currently being played (in my experience). Simply changing the wording to your wording (and making your interpretation the explicit mechanic) would effectively increase all speeds.&nbsp; My proposal is based on the current common interpretation of the spell, and figured to keep good ship speeds about the same as current speeds, while making the magic and the ship count about the same.<br>
<br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromJacqui Smith
DateMon, 03 Mar 2008 19:30:34 +1300
At 02:54 p.m. 3/03/2008, you wrote:
>And the magic (soapbox: 125 EM GK spell) is counting for double the 
>galleon + master navigator + full crew.  Too much.  (IMHO)
>
>Your interpretation of the spell is also my preferred version.  It 
>is not however the way the spell is currently being played (in my 
>experience). Simply changing the wording to your wording (and making 
>your interpretation the explicit mechanic) would effectively 
>increase all speeds.  My proposal is based on the current common 
>interpretation of the spell, and figured to keep good ship speeds 
>about the same as current speeds, while making the magic and the 
>ship count about the same.

I can think of a number of spells that are far more deserving to 
suffer a massive reduction in effect than mage current :-P

First, I tend to go along with Helen in the interpretation of the 
spell as played (and I play alongside Aqualina quite a lot, as you 
may appreciate). I've haven't seen any major problems, and frankly if 
the ship doesn't go fast enough with its fine master navigator 
Captain and experienced crew, they can always go hire a water mage... 
of course, when I run serious shipping as GM, they've done just that, 
and got themselves a water mage or an air mage (or indeed, one of each).

The reality is that it's FUN for the PCs (who most likely have a 
mid-ranked navigator and definitely not enough crew) to be able to 
swan about faster in their little ships (I've discovered the 
tartane... a lovely little ship for PCs to play with) than the NPCs 
with their fancy galleons.

It ain't broke, so we don't need to fix it....  just clarify how it 
SHOULD work, and write that down.

Jacqui


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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromBen Taberner
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 20:27:56 +1300
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On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Jacqui Smith <flamis@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

>
> The reality is that it's FUN for the PCs (who most likely have a
> mid-ranked navigator and definitely not enough crew) to be able to
> swan about faster in their little ships (I've discovered the
> tartane... a lovely little ship for PCs to play with) than the NPCs
> with their fancy galleons.


I wonder what's the likelihood anyone going to effort of building something
as complicated a fancy galleon when a mage a pair of Bermuda shorts can push
a square barge the size of a small fort or a raft made of caulked barrels
along a 25 MPH?

Well, putting sails on the fort would give his Air mage buddy something to
do too, but...




ben

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On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Jacqui Smith &lt;<a href="mailto:flamis@ihug.co.nz">flamis@ihug.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
The reality is that it&#39;s FUN for the PCs (who most likely have a<br>
mid-ranked navigator and definitely not enough crew) to be able to<br>
swan about faster in their little ships (I&#39;ve discovered the<br>
tartane... a lovely little ship for PCs to play with) than the NPCs<br>
with their fancy galleons.</blockquote><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I wonder what&#39;s the likelihood anyone going to effort of building something as complicated a fancy galleon when a mage a pair of Bermuda shorts can push a square barge the size of a small fort or a raft made of caulked barrels along a 25 MPH?<br>
<br>Well, putting sails on the fort would give his Air mage buddy something to do too, but...<br>&nbsp;</div></div><br><br><br>ben

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromNeil Davies
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 20:54:30 +1300
And putting my Oar in...

I presume all this wasn't so much of a drama in that same  ol' Alusia
where magic was rare and feared...  Yes that's the one, the one when I
first started DQ.



On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Ben Taberner <ben.taberner@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Jacqui Smith <flamis@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> >
> > The reality is that it's FUN for the PCs (who most likely have a
> > mid-ranked navigator and definitely not enough crew) to be able to
> > swan about faster in their little ships (I've discovered the
> > tartane... a lovely little ship for PCs to play with) than the NPCs
> > with their fancy galleons.
>
> I wonder what's the likelihood anyone going to effort of building something
> as complicated a fancy galleon when a mage a pair of Bermuda shorts can push
> a square barge the size of a small fort or a raft made of caulked barrels
> along a 25 MPH?
>
> Well, putting sails on the fort would give his Air mage buddy something to
> do too, but...
>
>
>
> ben


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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromHelen Saggers
DateMon, 3 Mar 2008 22:06:09 +1300
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Ben
Your mage in Bermuda shorts with rank 20 mage current is going to be =
rare animal.

A more realistic figure for a mage current might be 15mph, the spell =
last 5.5 hours. Maybe your mage will cast this twice a day meaning you =
cover 165mile a day with your floating fort or barrel raft.

A Galleon under a master (Rk 8) navigator will at best do 12.66mph or 11 =
knots but they can do that 24 hrs a day. So that's 303-304 miles a day. =
Knock that down to 10 knots and your still doing 276 miles.
Give them an air mage to bring that 10 to 12 mph up to 15 + for part of =
the day and you can cover  330 plus miles in a day.
Even your rare Water mage in Bermuda shorts is only going to move his =
raft 250 miles.

What Jacqui's talking about is when the portals in the Sea of Grass =
where down due to the dark circle. To get to places like Pacifica with =
time to actually adventure you need to do the run down their by ship =
ASAP. And that is only possible if you extend the distance a ship can =
travel with a little extra magic.=20
Add the mid rank water mage miles to the distance achievable with the =
help a mage wind and you can explain a daily distance that means the =
trips done in almost half the time, giving you 6 or 7 weeks to complete =
the adventure rather than 3 or 4 weeks without.

The same is true for travel to other places if you don't improve the =
speed of sea travel.... the worlds just too dam big.
Not every party can fly, and not every place has a portal to it from =
Seagate.

In the ol Alusia Neil you probably didn't have to travel so far in =
search of adventure.

Helen
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Ben Taberner=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 8:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion


  On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Jacqui Smith <flamis@ihug.co.nz> =
wrote:


    The reality is that it's FUN for the PCs (who most likely have a
    mid-ranked navigator and definitely not enough crew) to be able to
    swan about faster in their little ships (I've discovered the
    tartane... a lovely little ship for PCs to play with) than the NPCs
    with their fancy galleons.

  I wonder what's the likelihood anyone going to effort of building =
something as complicated a fancy galleon when a mage a pair of Bermuda =
shorts can push a square barge the size of a small fort or a raft made =
of caulked barrels along a 25 MPH?

  Well, putting sails on the fort would give his Air mage buddy =
something to do too, but...
  =20



  ben 
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Your mage in Bermuda shorts with rank =
20 mage=20
current is going to be rare animal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A more realistic figure for a mage =
current might be=20
15mph, the spell last 5.5 hours. Maybe your mage will cast this twice a =
day=20
meaning you cover 165mile a day with your floating fort or barrel=20
raft.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A Galleon under a master (Rk 8) =
navigator will at=20
best do 12.66mph or 11 knots&nbsp;but they can do that 24 hrs a day. So =
that's=20
303-304 miles a day. Knock that down to 10 knots and your still doing =
276=20
miles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Give them an air mage to bring that 10 =
to 12 mph up=20
to 15 + for part of the day and you can cover&nbsp; 330 plus miles in a=20
day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Even your rare Water mage in Bermuda =
shorts is only=20
going to move his&nbsp;raft 250 miles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What Jacqui's talking about is when the =
portals in=20
the Sea of Grass where down due to the dark circle. To get to places =
like=20
Pacifica with time to actually adventure you need to do the run down =
their by=20
ship ASAP. And that is&nbsp;only possible&nbsp;if you extend the =
distance a ship=20
can travel with a little extra magic. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Add&nbsp;the mid rank&nbsp;water =
mage&nbsp;miles to=20
the&nbsp;distance achievable with the help a mage wind and you&nbsp;can=20
explain&nbsp;a daily distance that means the trips done in almost half =
the time,=20
giving you 6 or 7 weeks to complete the adventure rather than 3 or 4 =
weeks=20
without.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The same is true for travel to other =
places if you=20
don't improve the speed of sea travel.... the worlds just too dam=20
big.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not every party can fly, and not every =
place has a=20
portal to it from Seagate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the ol Alusia Neil you probably =
didn't have to=20
travel so far in search of adventure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dben.taberner@gmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:ben.taberner@gmail.com">Ben=20
  Taberner</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 03, 2008 =
8:27=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current =
--=20
  modification discussion</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Jacqui Smith &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:flamis@ihug.co.nz">flamis@ihug.co.nz</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>The=20
    reality is that it's FUN for the PCs (who most likely have =
a<BR>mid-ranked=20
    navigator and definitely not enough crew) to be able to<BR>swan =
about faster=20
    in their little ships (I've discovered the<BR>tartane... a lovely =
little=20
    ship for PCs to play with) than the NPCs<BR>with their fancy=20
  galleons.</BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I wonder what's the likelihood anyone going to effort of building =

  something as complicated a fancy galleon when a mage a pair of Bermuda =
shorts=20
  can push a square barge the size of a small fort or a raft made of =
caulked=20
  barrels along a 25 MPH?<BR><BR>Well, putting sails on the fort would =
give his=20
  Air mage buddy something to do too,=20
  but...<BR>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV><BR><BR><BR>ben =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromPhil Judd
DateMon, 03 Mar 2008 23:20:06 +1300
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I am in the b) understanding.
 
I have TDP with Rank 8 (or 13 with magic) Navigator,
100,000 sp Custom built ships designed for speed,
and Rank 20 Mage Current.
 
Every GM I have played with has left it up to me to say how fast the
ships I sail go and invariably I say 25 mph as that is how I read the
spell.
 
Interestingly I thought Mage Wind (Air General G3) did exactly the same
thing (without the passive concentration bit) with the same speed so
having both a Air mage and a Water Mage was pointless in the ocean - in
rivers oddly enough the Air Mage version works better so you don't catch
and carry other traffic.
 
However the current puts much less stress on the ship as it is
stationary to the water (and proberly should wallow and be unsteerable)
even though travelling at 25 Mph.
 
Usually I have to fight to get the party to sail places rather than fly
- often we fly around and it "pop" the ship out as a mobile hotel for us
to land and sleep on. - Flying is much more versitile at getting you
places you want to go compared to even speedy sailing.
 
I do like Martins suggestion perhaps the numbers for speed increase
should be looked at - 2+ 1/2 Rank up to rank 10 + 1/Rank 11-20 ? (=+17
Mph at 20),
And a look at Mage wind as well for a tweak too.
 
Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Andrew Withy
Sent: Sunday, 2 March 2008 9:08 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion


Helen,
In my experience the Mage Current spell is usually interpreted as moving
the ship *instead* of any sailing or skill effect, so in your analogy,
you have a choice of walking or using the escalator. Martin is
suggesting a decreased effect that *stacks* with (non-magical) movement,
which is not how I have ever seen it played. If a number of GMs play the
present (current!) Mage Current spell as being in addition to any
non-magical movement, then that would change the nature of Martin's
proposal, but this is the first that I've heard of that interpretation.
Can we get an idea of the number of GM who believe:
 
(a) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its normal movement, and
that's good.

(b) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its normal movement, and
that's bad. 
(c) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship in addition to its normal movement.
(d) 2007 Mage Current is a EM 125 multi-target instant death spell.
 
I'm putting Martin & me down for (b), Helen for (c), and William
tentatively down for (d).
 
Andrew


  _____  

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Helen Saggers
Sent: Sunday, 2 March 2008 4:45 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion


Martin
 
Why change the spell when in practice works that way anyway.
As you have it written  in your proposal your down powering the spell.
 
As I see it you are looking at the spell effect as a block of magiced
water that moves every thing in the effected water at 5mph (+1/rk) So
your sail boat, your barge and that floating bottle all move along at
the speed of the effect... fine if your dealling with things trapped in
a solid but... things in/on water can move anyway they choose.
If a sail boat sails across the mage current (or against it) can leave
the effect, just like a swimmer escaping a rip.
 
As I see it mage current is more like an escalator or moving walkway, it
moves every thing on/in it forward, and any animate object/entity is
free to move about on it forward backward or sideways as normal and may
move out of the effect
The effect moves with the mage that cast it so like a tank on its tracks
the unpowered barge moves with the current.
With a sail or other powered vessel it become like a person walking up
an escalator, an end less escalator that moves with the water mage on
the boat, increasing (or decreaseing) the overall speed.
A faster ship or a better navigator just means that instead of walking
along the escalator / Mage current your running.
 
Helen


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I am=20
in the b) understanding.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I have=20
TDP with Rank 8 (or 13 with magic) Navigator,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>100,000 sp Custom built ships designed for =
speed,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>and=20
Rank 20 Mage Current.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Every=20
GM I have played with has left it up to me to say how fast the ships I =
sail go=20
and invariably I say 25 mph as that is how I read the =
spell.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Interestingly I thought Mage Wind (Air General G3) did exactly =
the same=20
thing (without the passive concentration bit) with the same speed so =
having both=20
a Air mage and a Water Mage was pointless in the ocean - in rivers oddly =
enough=20
the Air Mage version works better so you don't catch and carry other=20
traffic.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>However the current puts much less stress on the ship as it is =
stationary=20
to the water (and proberly should wallow and be unsteerable) even though =

travelling at 25 Mph.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Usually I have to fight to get the party to sail places rather =
than fly -=20
often we fly around and it "pop" the ship out as a mobile hotel for us =
to land=20
and sleep on. - Flying is much more versitile at getting you places you =
want to=20
go compared to even speedy sailing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I do=20
like Martins suggestion perhaps the numbers for speed increase should be =
looked=20
at - 2+ 1/2 Rank up to rank 10 + 1/Rank 11-20 ? (=3D+17 Mph at=20
20),</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>And a=20
look at Mage wind as well for a tweak too.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D734475709-03032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Phil</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of=20
  </B>Andrew Withy<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, 2 March 2008 9:08 =
p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current -- =
modification=20
  discussion<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Helen,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In my experience the Mage Current spell is =
usually=20
  interpreted as moving the ship *instead* of any sailing or skill =
effect, so in=20
  your analogy, you have a choice of walking or using the escalator. =
Martin is=20
  suggesting a decreased effect that *stacks* with (non-magical) =
movement, which=20
  is not how I have ever seen it played. If a number of GMs play the =
present=20
  (current!) Mage Current spell as being in addition to any non-magical=20
  movement, then that would change the nature of Martin's proposal, but =
this is=20
  the first that I've heard of that interpretation. Can we get an idea =
of the=20
  number of GM who believe:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>(a) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of =
its normal=20
  movement, and that's good.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>(b) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of =
its normal=20
  movement, and that's bad.=20
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>(c) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship in =
addition to its=20
  normal =
movement.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>(d) 2007 Mage=20
  Current is a EM 125 multi-target instant death =
spell.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I'm putting Martin &amp; me down for (b), =
Helen for (c),=20
  and William tentatively down for (d).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D926090006-02032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
    [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Helen=20
    Saggers<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, 2 March 2008 4:45 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B> =

    dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current -- =
modification=20
    discussion<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Martin</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why change the spell when in=20
    practice&nbsp;works that way anyway.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As you have it written&nbsp; in =
your proposal=20
    your down powering the spell.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As I see it you are looking at the =
spell effect=20
    as a block of magiced water that moves every thing in the effected =
water at=20
    5mph (+1/rk) So your sail boat, your barge and that floating bottle =
all move=20
    along at the speed of the effect... fine if your dealling with =
things=20
    trapped in a solid but... things in/on water can move anyway they=20
    choose.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If a sail boat sails across the =
mage current=20
    (or against it) can leave the effect, just like a swimmer escaping a =

    rip.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As I see it&nbsp;mage current is =
more like an=20
    escalator or moving walkway, it moves every thing on/in it =
forward,&nbsp;and=20
    any animate object/entity is free to move about on it forward =
backward or=20
    sideways as normal and may move out of the effect</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The effect moves with the mage that =
cast it so=20
    like a tank on its tracks the unpowered barge moves with the=20
    current.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>With&nbsp;a sail or other powered =
vessel it=20
    become like a person walking up an escalator, an end less escalator =
that=20
    moves with the water mage on the boat, increasing (or =
decreaseing)&nbsp;the=20
    overall speed.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A faster ship or a better navigator =
just means=20
    that instead of walking along the escalator / Mage current your=20
    running.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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