| Subject | Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion |
|---|---|
| From | Michael Scott |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 01:34:19 +1200 |
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Just remember that mages are rare. Any shipping company that has one per sh=
ip has proberly paid a premium and searched the entrie world if not others.=
And those premiums would effect costs etc.
=20
TTFN
Michael
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:27:56 +1300Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modif=
ication discussionFrom: ben.taberner@gmail.comTo: dq@dq.sf.org.nzOn Mon, Ma=
r 3, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Jacqui Smith <flamis@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
The reality is that it's FUN for the PCs (who most likely have amid-ranked =
navigator and definitely not enough crew) to be able toswan about faster in=
their little ships (I've discovered thetartane... a lovely little ship for=
PCs to play with) than the NPCswith their fancy galleons.
=20
I wonder what's the likelihood anyone going to effort of building something=
as complicated a fancy galleon when a mage a pair of Bermuda shorts can pu=
sh a square barge the size of a small fort or a raft made of caulked barrel=
s along a 25 MPH?Well, putting sails on the fort would give his Air mage bu=
ddy something to do too, but... ben=20
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/=
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Just remember that mages are rare. Any shipping company that has one per sh=
ip has proberly paid a premium and searched the entrie world if not others.=
And those premiums would effect costs etc.<BR>
<BR>
TTFN<BR>
Michael<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:27:56 +1300<BR>Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- m=
odification discussion<BR>From: ben.taberner@gmail.com<BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.=
nz<BR><BR>On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Jacqui Smith <<A href=3D"mailt=
o:flamis@ihug.co.nz">flamis@ihug.co.nz</A>> wrote:<BR>
<DIV class=3DEC_gmail_quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3DEC_gmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"><BR>The real=
ity is that it's FUN for the PCs (who most likely have a<BR>mid-ranked navi=
gator and definitely not enough crew) to be able to<BR>swan about faster in=
their little ships (I've discovered the<BR>tartane... a lovely little ship=
for PCs to play with) than the NPCs<BR>with their fancy galleons.</BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I wonder what's the likelihood anyone going to effort of building some=
thing as complicated a fancy galleon when a mage a pair of Bermuda shorts c=
an push a square barge the size of a small fort or a raft made of caulked b=
arrels along a 25 MPH?<BR><BR>Well, putting sails on the fort would give hi=
s Air mage buddy something to do too, but...<BR> </DIV></DIV><BR><BR><=
BR>ben </BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr />Express yourself instantly with MSN Messeng=
er! <a href=3D'http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/' targe=
t=3D'_new'>MSN Messenger</a></body>
</html>=
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| Subject | Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion |
|---|---|
| From | Andrew Withy |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:33:51 +1300 |
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Helen,
Your numbers appear biased to a pre-determined result. A Galleon is
Destinian, and only ever powered with Rank 15-20 Water/Air Mages. The best
renaissance ships did around 150 naut miles a day (in summer). This is
because they didn't really sail at night - just pottered along. If you
assume the crew has Witchsight (EM 150 general, 30+30min/Rank, multiple
casts required) to sail at night, then you had might as well assume Mage
Current (EM:125, single cast, same duration, much more relevent to ships).
Also, Rank 10 is ~ 5,000 ep, with MA 20 (18 is watermage minimum). As a
specialist mage on a boat, this is probably going to be the spell you
specialise in and 5,000ep is nothing for a mage. One person spending
20,000ep gives Rank 20 - cheaper than learning Navigator, and no crew or
fancy boat needed.
Jacqui,
It's NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and there's more of them
than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant because of a spell.
Having both make a difference gives room for everyone to play. And my
memories of playing with Aqualina for ~ 8-10 games was that crew/skill
wasn't required, because Mage Current just moved us - to our great
trepidation in harbours while Aqualina learnt not to bounce us off rocks to
turn !
Martin's proposal makes an existing skill, and the choice of vessel,
relevant without changing how most people play ship speed.
Regards
Andrew
_____
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Helen Saggers
Sent: Monday, 3 March 2008 10:06 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
Ben
Your mage in Bermuda shorts with rank 20 mage current is going to be rare
animal.
A more realistic figure for a mage current might be 15mph, the spell last
5.5 hours. Maybe your mage will cast this twice a day meaning you cover
165mile a day with your floating fort or barrel raft.
A Galleon under a master (Rk 8) navigator will at best do 12.66mph or 11
knots but they can do that 24 hrs a day. So that's 303-304 miles a day.
Knock that down to 10 knots and your still doing 276 miles.
Give them an air mage to bring that 10 to 12 mph up to 15 + for part of the
day and you can cover 330 plus miles in a day.
Even your rare Water mage in Bermuda shorts is only going to move his raft
250 miles.
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Helen,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Your numbers appear biased to a
pre-determined result. A Galleon is Destinian, and only ever powered =
with Rank
15-20 Water/Air Mages. The best renaissance ships did around 150 naut =
miles a
day (in summer). This is because they didn’t really sail at night =
–
just pottered along. If you assume the crew has Witchsight (EM 150 =
general, 30+30min/Rank,
multiple casts required) to sail at night, then you had might as well =
assume
Mage Current (EM:125, single cast, same duration, much more relevent to =
ships).
Also, Rank 10 is ~ 5,000 ep, with MA 20 (18 is watermage minimum). As a
specialist mage on a boat, this is probably going to be the spell you =
specialise
in and 5,000ep is nothing for a mage. One person spending 20,000ep gives =
Rank
20 – cheaper than learning Navigator, and no crew or fancy boat =
needed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jacqui,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It’s NOT fun as a skilled =
navigator non-water
mage (and there’s more of them than water mages!) to have a skill =
that is
irrelevant because of a spell. Having both make a difference gives room =
for
everyone to play. And my memories of playing with Aqualina for ~ 8-10 =
games was
that crew/skill wasn’t required, because Mage Current just moved =
us –
to our great trepidation in harbours while Aqualina learnt not to bounce =
us off
rocks to turn !<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Martin’s proposal makes an =
existing skill,
and the choice of vessel, relevant without changing how most people play =
ship speed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Helen Saggers<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 3 March =
2008 10:06
p.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Mage =
Current --
modification discussion</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Ben</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Your mage in Bermuda shorts with rank 20 mage current =
is
going to be rare animal.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>A more realistic figure for a mage current might be =
15mph,
the spell last 5.5 hours. Maybe your mage will cast this twice a day =
meaning
you cover 165mile a day with your floating fort or barrel =
raft.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>A Galleon under a master (Rk 8) navigator will at =
best do
12.66mph or 11 knots but they can do that 24 hrs a day. So that's =
303-304
miles a day. Knock that down to 10 knots and your still doing 276 =
miles.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Give them an air mage to bring that 10 to 12 mph up =
to 15 +
for part of the day and you can cover 330 plus miles in a =
day.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Even your rare Water mage in Bermuda shorts is only =
going to
move his raft 250 miles.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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| Subject | Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion |
|---|---|
| From | Keith Smith |
| Date | Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:08:10 +1300 |
--=====================_335651375==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >It=92s NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water=20 >mage (and there=92s more of them than water=20 >mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant=20 >because of a spell. Having both make a=20 >difference gives room for everyone to play. And=20 >my memories of playing with Aqualina for ~ 8-10=20 >games was that crew/skill wasn=92t required,=20 >because Mage Current just moved us =96 to our=20 >great trepidation in harbours while Aqualina=20 >learnt not to bounce us off rocks to turn ! > >Martin=92s proposal makes an existing skill, and=20 >the choice of vessel, relevant without changing=20 >how most people play ship speed. I have to agree with Andrew on that. Personally,=20 I'd rather have the spell enhance or supplement=20 the skill. As I said earlier, it gives a reason=20 to rank the skill, and a Water mage with high=20 ranks in navigator should be better at handling=20 ships than one who does not (which is one reason=20 why you guys keep bouncing off rocks ... she's=20 only used to small craft that have very small turning circles). Besides, as I said, Mage Current moves the water,=20 not the ship. The ship is only moving because the=20 water is pushing on it so, when turning, the=20 ship's inertia still applies (watch out for those=20 rocks ..... ooops). The same can be said for Mage=20 Wind but a ship sails gives finer control over speed and direction. Mind you ... this is only theory in my case=20 .... anyone with practical experience please=20 feel free to educate me on ship dynamics Keith --=====================_335651375==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <body> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0000= 80"> It=92s NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and there=92s more of them than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant because of a spell. Having both make a difference gives room for everyone to play. And my memories of playing with Aqualina for ~ 8-10 games was that crew/skill wasn=92t required, because Mage Current just moved us =96 to our great trepidation in harbours while Aqualina learnt not to bounce us off rocks to turn !<br> <br> Martin=92s proposal makes an existing skill, and the choice of vessel, relevant without changing how most people play ship speed.</blockquote><br> I have to agree with Andrew on that. Personally, I'd rather have the spell enhance or supplement the skill. As I said earlier, it gives a reason to rank the skill, and a Water mage with high ranks in navigator should be better at handling ships than one who does not (which is one reason why you guys keep bouncing off rocks ... she's only used to small craft that have very small turning circles).<br><br> Besides, as I said, Mage Current moves the water, not the ship. The ship is only moving because the water is pushing on it so, when turning, the ship's inertia still applies (watch out for those rocks ..... ooops). The same can be said for Mage Wind but a ship sails gives finer control over speed and direction. <br><br> Mind you ... this is only theory in my case .... anyone with practical experience please feel free to educate me on ship dynamics<br><br> Keith<br> </font></body> </html> --=====================_335651375==.ALT-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion |
|---|---|
| From | Jacqui Smith |
| Date | Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:11:47 +1300 |
--=====================_910660890==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 07:33 a.m. 4/03/2008, you wrote: >It=92s NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water=20 >mage (and there=92s more of them than water=20 >mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant=20 >because of a spell. Having both make a=20 >difference gives room for everyone to play. And=20 >my memories of playing with Aqualina for ~ 8-10=20 >games was that crew/skill wasn=92t required,=20 >because Mage Current just moved us =96 to our=20 >great trepidation in harbours while Aqualina=20 >learnt not to bounce us off rocks to turn ! > > > >Martin=92s proposal makes an existing skill, and=20 >the choice of vessel, relevant without changing=20 >how most people play ship speed. Please note that I'm not supporting the way=20 Martin says most people are currently playing the=20 spell - this idea that "Mage Current moves a ship=20 instead of its normal movement". That DOES make=20 navigator skill (and suitable ships and crews) irrelevant. I'm with the party that says "Mage Current helps=20 boats go faster, and so does navigator skill and=20 a properly designed boat". It's probable in fact=20 that applying Mage Current to a badly designed=20 craft wouldn't help as much. This is more a=20 matter of interpretation, and clarification to the existing spell. However, I do feel that decreasing the speed=20 bonus provided by Mage Current would not enhance=20 the game, primarily because the current version=20 encourages parties to use boats as an option=20 instead of flying everywhere. Remember that a=20 Guild party does not consist of enough people to=20 actually sail a boat of any real size. Retaining=20 the numbers as they stand, and simply=20 interpreting the spell as some of us have been=20 doing for a while, as a bonus, is worth trying first I think. Incidentally, I suspect that in any sea-going=20 society, water mages are among the more common,=20 simply because being a water mage gets you a=20 good (and well-paid) job. Well-paid because the=20 profits from being the first home with the new=20 crop of tea (or whatever) are not inconsiderable.... Jacqui --=====================_910660890==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <body> At 07:33 a.m. 4/03/2008, you wrote:<br><br> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><font size=3D2 color=3D"#0000= 80"> It=92s NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and there=92s more of them than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant because of a spell. Having both make a difference gives room for everyone to play. And my memories of playing with Aqualina for ~ 8-10 games was that crew/skill wasn=92t required, because Mage Current just moved us =96 to our great trepidation in harbours while Aqualina learnt not to bounce us off rocks to turn !<br> </font><br> <font size=3D2 color=3D"#000080"> <br> </font><br> <font size=3D2 color=3D"#000080">Martin=92s proposal makes an existing skill= , and the choice of vessel, relevant without changing how most people play ship speed.</blockquote><br> </font><font size=3D2>Please note that I'm not supporting the way Martin says most people are currently playing the spell - this idea that "Mage </font>Current moves a ship instead of its normal movement". That DOES make navigator skill (and suitable ships and crews) irrelevant.<br><br> I'm with the party that says "Mage Current helps boats go faster, and so does navigator skill and a properly designed boat". It's probable in fact that applying Mage Current to a badly designed craft wouldn't help as much. This is more a matter of interpretation, and clarification to the existing spell.<br><br> However, I do feel that decreasing the speed bonus provided by Mage Current would not enhance the game, primarily because the current version encourages parties to use boats as an option instead of flying everywhere. Remember that a Guild party does not consist of enough people to actually sail a boat of any real size. Retaining the numbers as they stand, and simply interpreting the spell as some of us have been doing for a while, as a bonus, is worth trying first I think.<br><br> Incidentally, I suspect that in any sea-going society, water mages are among the more common, simply because being a water mage gets you a good (and well-paid) job. Well-paid because the profits from being the first home with the new crop of tea (or whatever) are not inconsiderable....<br><br> Jacqui <br><br> </body> </html> --=====================_910660890==.ALT-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:25:44 +1300 |
------=_Part_3816_9288041.1204575944655 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > It's NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and there's more of > them than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant because of a > spell. > It would appear, that whatever our current interpretations of the extant Mage Current spell, we are in "heated agreement" (to borrow an Agile development term) as to the preferred workings of the spell; to wit, that it should assist / compliment a ship's normal mode of travel, rather than replace it. All that we are actually quibbling about is the speed conferred. (Where I feel 5+1 is a bit much, but am willing to concede that 2+1/2 may be too little). May I suggest then that Helen's additions be added to the spell for clarification of its effects, and we narrow the scope of this discussion to the miles per rank added? Cheers, Martin ------=_Part_3816_9288041.1204575944655 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Withy <<a href="mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">awithy@ihug.co.nz</a>> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-GB"> <div><p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">It's NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and there's more of them than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant because of a spell.</span></font></p></div></div></blockquote><div>It would appear, that whatever our current interpretations of the extant Mage Current spell, we are in "heated agreement" (to borrow an Agile development term) as to the preferred workings of the spell; to wit, that it should assist / compliment a ship's normal mode of travel, rather than replace it.<br> <br>All that we are actually quibbling about is the speed conferred. (Where I feel 5+1 is a bit much, but am willing to concede that 2+1/2 may be too little).<br><br>May I suggest then that Helen's additions be added to the spell for clarification of its effects, and we narrow the scope of this discussion to the miles per rank added?<br> <br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br><br><br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_3816_9288041.1204575944655-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | [dq] Guild Meeting - Change of venue |
|---|---|
| From | Jonathan Bean |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:03:48 +1300 |
------=_Part_15873_27518942.1204592628342 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Posted for Stephen as home email isn't working: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Due to a clash of bookings we have a different venue for the guild meeting this Sunday. We are at the Leys Institute in Ponsonby from 12:30 to 2:30. Leys Institute hall is above the Ponsonby Library at the top of St Mary's Bay Rd. About 10 metres from the intersection of Ponsonby Rd, Jervois Rd, and College Hill. Apologies from me and from the nice lady at Auckland City bookings. Please tell every DQer you see or talk to this week to ensure that word gets around. Cheers, Stephen. Jonathan Bean H: +64 9 828 2959 M: +64 21 917 173 G: jonobean@gmail.com ------=_Part_15873_27518942.1204592628342 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Posted for Stephen as home email isn't working:<br><br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Due to a clash of bookings we have a different venue for the guild meeting this Sunday.<br> <br>We are at the Leys Institute in Ponsonby from 12:30 to 2:30.<br><br>Leys Institute hall is above the Ponsonby Library at the top of St Mary's Bay Rd.<br>About 10 metres from the intersection of Ponsonby Rd, Jervois Rd, and College Hill.<br> <br>Apologies from me and from the nice lady at Auckland City bookings.<br><br><span style="font-weight: bold;">Please tell every DQer you see or talk to this week to ensure that word gets around.</span><br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br> <br><br> <br>Jonathan Bean<br><br>H: +64 9 828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href="mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a> ------=_Part_15873_27518942.1204592628342-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | [dq-announce] Guild Meeting - Change of venue |
|---|---|
| From | Jonathan Bean |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:03:48 +1300 |
------=_Part_15873_27518942.1204592628342 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Posted for Stephen as home email isn't working: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Due to a clash of bookings we have a different venue for the guild meeting this Sunday. We are at the Leys Institute in Ponsonby from 12:30 to 2:30. Leys Institute hall is above the Ponsonby Library at the top of St Mary's Bay Rd. About 10 metres from the intersection of Ponsonby Rd, Jervois Rd, and College Hill. Apologies from me and from the nice lady at Auckland City bookings. Please tell every DQer you see or talk to this week to ensure that word gets around. Cheers, Stephen. Jonathan Bean H: +64 9 828 2959 M: +64 21 917 173 G: jonobean@gmail.com ------=_Part_15873_27518942.1204592628342 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Posted for Stephen as home email isn't working:<br><br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Due to a clash of bookings we have a different venue for the guild meeting this Sunday.<br> <br>We are at the Leys Institute in Ponsonby from 12:30 to 2:30.<br><br>Leys Institute hall is above the Ponsonby Library at the top of St Mary's Bay Rd.<br>About 10 metres from the intersection of Ponsonby Rd, Jervois Rd, and College Hill.<br> <br>Apologies from me and from the nice lady at Auckland City bookings.<br><br><span style="font-weight: bold;">Please tell every DQer you see or talk to this week to ensure that word gets around.</span><br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br> <br><br> <br>Jonathan Bean<br><br>H: +64 9 828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href="mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a> ------=_Part_15873_27518942.1204592628342-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-announce-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc |
|---|---|
| From | Helen Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:16:20 +1300 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C87E02.51F0F780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: It's NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and there's more of = them than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant because of a = spell. I would argue that the skill is only irrelevant in terms of actual = movement or speed of the vessel. Finding your way from a to b while = avoiding running a ground getting totally lost or being at the mercy of = foul weather, still requires other knowledge from the skill. Get horsemanship at good ranks and you can ride the horse anywhere but = without Ranger (or navigator) and without a road to follow its most = likely you'll wind up riding in circles, same sort of thing goes for = mage current at sea. However I am aware that does require a GM to be prepared to play the = travel a little bit; rather than just x hours (or days) later you = arrive. The party I'm Gming came this >||< close to being lost at sea the other = week when they took a 'short cut' and left sight of land. ;-) Martin wrote: It would appear, that whatever our current interpretations of the extant = Mage Current spell, we are in "heated agreement" (to borrow an Agile = development term) as to the preferred workings of the spell; to wit, = that it should assist / compliment a ship's normal mode of travel, = rather than replace it. Agreed. All that we are actually quibbling about is the speed conferred. (Where = I feel 5+1 is a bit much, but am willing to concede that 2+1/2 may be = too little). I too am willing to admit that at high ranks in the spell 5+1 is too = fast compared to the speed of vessels using non magical means. But my concern is that the spell needs to remain useful at low ranks. May I suggest then that Helen's additions be added to the spell for = clarification of its effects, and we narrow the scope of this discussion = to the miles per rank added? I agree that for a mage current at high ranks to be able to move a = 'floating brick' twice as fast as the best navigator on alusia in the = best vessel afloat is just plain wrong. However I am reluctant to just reduce the spells speed to fix things = without looking at weather the problem is that our ships are too slow, = or without considering the effect such a reduction in the speed will = have on the spell in use (as has been pointed out Parties don't have = enough members to crew much more than a skiff) and for low- bunny water = mages. The campaign is top end character heavy, but the System is not conducive = to retiring (or semi retiring) characters as it takes a long time to = produce a character that can do anything. (My soap box out) Because of = the extreme power of older characters there is a trend to down power = spells, spell effects, gold bricks etc.etc. which effectively makes a = starting or low character even less effective..... in turn discouraging = current players from starting afresh and potential new blood sticking = with the guild.=20 I am not keen on just down powering a spell because at rank 15+ it does = too much... if it means the spell become useless unless you have it at = rank 11+, Id rather see High PC players encouraged to spend ep elsewhere = (such as in this case on navigator) or to start new characters and so = on. (Soap box away for now.) Having looked up ship speeds, (difficult due to wind speed being a = factor) it seems that our ships are fast enough. A replica longboat has a recorded top boat speed of 8 knots and has a = recorded travel distance of 223 Nmiles in a day (24hrs) which means it = averaged 9 knots but thats a ground speed; which can be tide and current = assisted. So what effect does reducing the speed have, what can do watermages do = with mage current?=20 It seems that most have been swanning around in ship strengthen floating = bricks thumbing their noses at high ranked navigators. Crossing, or traveling up or down rivers and anywhere else they can find = enough water to float, provided that the party cannot or can be = convinced not to fly. Thus we need to reduce the overall top speed without so reducing the low = end speed to the point where its better to get out and walk. The Waikato has a current of 3-4 mph though Hamilton, the Nile in flood = 5mph, to head up stream on such rivers with just mage current alone at 2 = +1/2 would become imposible until rk 8-10 and be very slow making it a = useless spell for up river travel. The gulf stream has a speed of about 2mph and tides run even faster, at = 2+1/2 it becomes useless for magical powered ship travel at low ranks = too. May I suggest a speed of 5 (+1/2 or part there of) that keeps it's low = end speed useful for low ranked watermages and makes the top speed of a = 'floating brick' only 15 mph or 13 knots.=20 Making it still possible to catch that quick ship with a hot navigator, = but hey its a rank 20 spell it should be hot stuff.=20 And the combined speeds of mage current and ship top out close to the = current top end of mage current so over all a proper ships not really = going any faster than is currently played. Helen ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C87E02.51F0F780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D""><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <DIV><BR>On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Withy = <awithy@ihug.co.nz>=20 wrote:<BR><BR>It's NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and = there's=20 more of them than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant = because of a=20 spell.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I would argue that the skill is only = irrelevant in=20 terms of actual movement or speed of the vessel. Finding your way from a = to b=20 while avoiding running a ground getting totally lost or being at the = mercy of=20 foul weather, still requires other knowledge from the = skill.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Get horsemanship at good ranks and you can = ride the=20 horse anywhere but without Ranger (or navigator) and without a road = to=20 follow its most likely you'll wind up riding in circles, same sort = of thing=20 goes for mage current at sea.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>However I am aware that does require a = GM to be=20 prepared to play the travel a little bit; rather than just x hours (or = days)=20 later you arrive.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>The party I'm Gming came this >||< = close to=20 being lost at sea the other week when they took a 'short cut' and left = sight of=20 land. ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#800000></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Martin </FONT>wrote:<BR><BR><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>It would appear, that whatever our current interpretations of = the extant=20 Mage Current spell, we are in "heated agreement" (to borrow an Agile = development=20 term) as to the preferred workings of the spell; to wit, that it should = assist /=20 compliment a ship's normal mode of travel, rather than replace = it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT=20 color=3D#0000ff>Agreed</FONT>.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR>All that we are actually quibbling about is the speed = conferred. =20 (Where I feel 5+1 is a bit much, but am willing to concede that 2+1/2 = may be too=20 little).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I too am willing to admit that at high ranks = in the=20 spell 5+1 is too fast compared to the speed of vessels using non magical = means.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>But my concern is that the spell needs to = remain useful=20 at low ranks.<BR></FONT><BR>May I suggest then that Helen's additions be = added=20 to the spell for clarification of its effects, and we narrow the scope = of this=20 discussion to the miles per rank added?<BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I agree that for a mage current at high ranks = to be=20 able to move a 'floating brick' twice as fast as the best = navigator on=20 alusia in the best vessel afloat is just plain wrong.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>However I am reluctant to just = reduce the=20 spells speed to fix things without looking at weather the problem = is that=20 our ships are too slow, or without considering the effect such a = reduction in=20 the speed will have on the spell in use (as has been pointed out = Parties=20 don't have enough members to crew much more than a skiff) and = for low-=20 bunny water mages.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>The campaign is top end character heavy, but = the System=20 is not conducive to retiring (or semi retiring) characters as it takes a = long=20 time to produce a character that can do anything. (My soap box out) = Because of=20 the extreme power of older characters there is a trend to down = power=20 spells, spell effects, gold bricks etc.etc. which effectively makes = a=20 starting or low character even less effective..... in turn discouraging = current=20 players from starting afresh and potential new blood sticking with = the=20 guild. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#800000><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I am not keen on just = down powering=20 a spell because at rank 15+ it does too much... if it means the spell = become=20 useless unless you have it at rank 11+, Id rather see High PC players = encouraged=20 to spend ep elsewhere (such as in this case on navigator) or to = start new=20 characters and so on. (Soap box away for now.)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Having looked up ship speeds, (difficult due = to wind=20 speed being a factor) it seems that our ships are fast = enough.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>A replica longboat has a recorded top boat = speed=20 of 8 knots and has a recorded travel distance of 223 Nmiles in a = day=20 (24hrs) which means it averaged 9 knots but thats a ground speed; which = can=20 be tide and current assisted.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>So what effect does reducing the speed have, = what can=20 do watermages do with mage current? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>It seems that most have been swanning around = in ship=20 strengthen floating bricks thumbing their noses at high ranked=20 navigators.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Crossing, or traveling up or down rivers and = anywhere=20 else they can find enough water to float, provided that the party cannot = or can=20 be convinced not to fly.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Thus we need to reduce the overall top = speed=20 without so reducing the low end speed to the point where its better to = get out=20 and walk.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>The Waikato has a current of 3-4 mph though = Hamilton,=20 the Nile in flood 5mph, to head up stream on such rivers with just mage = current=20 alone at 2 +1/2 would become imposible until rk 8-10 = and be=20 very slow making it a useless spell for up river travel.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>The gulf stream has a speed of about 2mph and = tides run=20 even faster, at 2+1/2 it becomes useless for magical powered ship travel = at low ranks too.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>May I suggest a speed of 5 (+1/2 or part = there=20 of) that keeps it's low end speed useful for low ranked watermages = and=20 makes the top speed of a 'floating brick' only 15 mph or 13=20 knots. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Making it still possible to catch that = quick ship=20 with a hot navigator, b</FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff>ut hey its a rank 20 = spell it=20 should be hot stuff. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>And the combined speeds of mage current = and ship=20 top out close to the current top end of mage current so over all a = proper ships=20 not really going any faster than is currently played.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Helen</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></FONT><BR> </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C87E02.51F0F780-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion |
|---|---|
| From | Michael Parkinson |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 16:27:12 +1300 |
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Excellent suggestion, Martin. This adds more opportunities for fun play
by Navigators & GMs, and maybe water-mages if they're up to it.
=20
The speed & volume of water transport makes it the only way to handle
bulk transportation of people &/or trade goods. In Alusia, it is only
thanks to internal coups d'etat (assisted by Acts of Guild), that the
excessive power & wealth has been reduced ... and that is at a rate of
LESS than 1 mage per 1000 population. And remember, Destiny does not
get wealthy through piracy but by trade: the active participation by
legitimate societies/nations in Alusia.
=20
Martin's rewrite give a good reason to have real ships and for them to
be an expensive investment rather than hunks of wood or water-proof
sacks. As GM I'm of the "(b) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of
its normal movement, and that's bad." School (& one of my characters
also agrees). His figures are good too (I'd support his comments of Mon
3/03/2008 2:55 p.m.) and simple, yet wouldn't upset the existing
Destinian trade fleets: under the rewrite, because skill & ship quality
become important, it still would take only a few weeks to sail to any
port on or near the Alusian Continent [Fleet in several senses]. =20
=20
Concerning "I can think of a number of spells that are far more
deserving to suffer a massive reduction in effect than mage current" --
If you feel that way, then propose a suitable fix. Mage current as
written *is* broke, and this is a good, simple fix. Next problem ....?
=20
Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=20
Martin Suggested:=20
[...]
I'd like to propose a change to the effects section (only) of Mage
Current as follows (change highlighted):
Effects: The Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a
volume that moves with the Adept). All objects/entities, etc. within the
range that are submerged in the water or floating on the water have
their speed increased by 2 miles per hour (+1 / 2 Ranks) while moving
with the current (or have their speed decreased if moving against it).
The Adept may freely alter the direction of the mage current during the
spell (requires active concentration). Passive concentration is required
to maintain this spell.=20
[...]
The change makes it beneficial to have a faster/better ship (e.g.
galleon rather than barge), a decent navigator, and a full crew, (and
also to actually use the sails!) :-)
It also seems to me to be more in keeping with a 125 EM general
knowledge spell, and makes it more similar in power to Mage Wind (Air
G-4) which creates a wind with a given speed -- which then affects
objects (rather than automatically moving objects at the stated speed).
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Excellent
suggestion, Martin. This adds more opportunities for fun play by
Navigators & GMs, and maybe water-mages if they’re up to =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>The speed &
volume of water transport makes it the only way to handle bulk =
transportation of
people &/or trade goods. In Alusia, it is only thanks to =
internal
coups d’etat (assisted by Acts of Guild), that the excessive power =
&
wealth has been reduced … and that is at a rate of LESS than 1 =
mage per
1000 population. And remember, Destiny does not get wealthy =
through
piracy but by trade: the active participation by legitimate =
societies/nations
in Alusia.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Martin’s
rewrite give a good reason to have real ships and for them to be an =
expensive
investment rather than hunks of wood or water-proof sacks. As GM =
I’m
of the “</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>(b) 2007 Mage Current moves a ship instead of its normal =
movement,
and that's bad.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>” School
(& one of my characters also agrees). His figures are good too =
(I’d
support his comments of Mon 3/03/2008 2:55 p.m.) and simple, yet =
wouldn’t
upset the existing Destinian trade fleets: under the rewrite, because =
skill
& ship quality become important, it still would take only a few =
weeks to
sail to any port on or near the Alusian Continent [Fleet in several =
senses]. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Concerning “</span>I
can think of a number of spells that are far more deserving to suffer a =
massive
reduction in effect than mage current<span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>”
–- If you feel that way, then propose a suitable fix. Mage =
current
as written *<b>is</b>* broke, and this is a good, simple fix. Next
problem ….?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Michael
Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858)<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Martin =
Suggested: <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>[…]<o:=
p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I'd like to propose =
a change to
the effects section (only) of Mage Current as follows (change =
highlighted):<br>
<br>
Effects: The Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a =
volume
that moves with the Adept).<b> All objects/entities, etc. within the =
range that
are submerged in the water or floating on the water have their speed =
increased
by 2 miles per hour (+1 / 2 Ranks) while moving with the current (or =
have their
speed decreased if moving against it). </b>The Adept may freely alter =
the
direction of the mage current during the spell (requires active =
concentration).
Passive concentration is required to maintain this spell. <br>
<br>
[…]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The change makes it =
beneficial
to have a faster/better ship (e.g. galleon rather than barge), a decent
navigator, and a full crew, (and also to actually use the sails!) =
:-)<br>
<br>
It also seems to me to be more in keeping with a 125 EM general =
knowledge
spell, and makes it more similar in power to Mage Wind (Air G-4) which =
creates
a wind with a given speed -- which then affects objects (rather than
automatically moving objects at the stated speed).<br>
<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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| Subject | Re: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc |
|---|---|
| From | Michael Scott |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:10:19 +1200 |
--_796f322e-7717-41db-8a48-7c0693e30cf6_
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=20
I agree that for a mage current at high ranks to be able to move a 'floatin=
g brick' twice as fast as the best navigator on alusia in the best vessel a=
float is just plain wrong.
=20
Why? I mean it is magic it is ment to do impossible things.=20
=20
You might as well say that fly spells should be removed becuase humans don'=
t naturally have wings. We have a flying skill becuase the spells while all=
owing you to fly (and fly faster than any creature fantasical or other wise=
), doesn't automatically make you competant in avoiding terain or each othe=
r and ending very messily.
=20
There are all sorts of dangers at sea that mage current won't save a ship o=
r party from and relying solely on magic is stupid and should be expolted b=
y the GM/enemy.
=20
eg. what happens to this brick if the bad guy have a namer to drop counters=
in the path of travel or dispell the current or just the boat.
=20
Even normal weather could possibly swamp the boat/brick if it hasn't been d=
esigned properly. Ship strength just holds the boat together and mage curre=
nt moves it neither stop it from capsizing or hitting a submerged tree or r=
eef or something.
=20
TTFN
Michael
_________________________________________________________________
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{
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I agree that for a mage current at high ranks to=
be able to move a 'floating brick' twice as fast as the best nav=
igator on alusia in the best vessel afloat is just plain wrong.</FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Why? I mean it is magic it is ment to do impossi=
ble things. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>You might as well say that fly spells should be =
removed becuase humans don't naturally have wings. We have a flying skill b=
ecuase the spells while allowing you to fly (and fly faster than any creatu=
re fantasical or other wise), doesn't automatically make you competant in a=
voiding terain or each other and ending very messily.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>There are all sorts of dangers at sea that mage =
current won't save a ship or party from and relying solely on magic is stup=
id and should be expolted by the GM/enemy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>eg. what happens to this brick if the bad guy ha=
ve a namer to drop counters in the path of travel or dispell the current or=
just the boat.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Even normal weather could possibly swamp the boa=
t/brick if it hasn't been designed properly. Ship strength just holds the b=
oat together and mage current moves it neither stop it from capsizing or hi=
tting a submerged tree or reef or something.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>TTFN</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Michael</FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><br /><h=
r />Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! <a href=3D'http://clk.at=
dmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/' target=3D'_new'>MSN Messenger</a>=
</body>
</html>=
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc |
|---|---|
| From | Helen Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:45:44 +1300 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C87E38.B7B59C20
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Why?=20
44 weeks of training, 19350ep and a masterwork should be able to give =
you a fighting chance to save your ship from the evil water mage and his =
mage current as he tries to drive your ship up on to the reef....
As it stands he doesn't even need the full rank 20 to do so, just 8 =
weeks and 5844ep to get to rank 10 is enough to give you more speed than =
the fastest ship.
So you can't out run a ship with a water mage with rank 10 mage current, =
and you can't catch one unless you have one yourself .
The best mage wind in the world is only going to get to a force 6 or =
strong breeze which probably counts as fair conditions, so even with a =
mage wind your still getting only the best sail speed....if you have the =
crew and the navigator to make use of it.
Why should a water mage who needs no other help for the same ep time =
etc. get double the result of an air mage, who also requires a =
navigator and crew.
A little bit more speed, maybe up to half again at max ranks would be =
okay.... its a water mage after all. But double?
Helen
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Michael Scott=20
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc
=20
I agree that for a mage current at high ranks to be able to move a =
'floating brick' twice as fast as the best navigator on alusia in the =
best vessel afloat is just plain wrong.
Why? I mean it is magic it is ment to do impossible things.=20
You might as well say that fly spells should be removed becuase =
humans don't naturally have wings. We have a flying skill becuase the =
spells while allowing you to fly (and fly faster than any creature =
fantasical or other wise), doesn't automatically make you competant in =
avoiding terain or each other and ending very messily.
There are all sorts of dangers at sea that mage current won't save a =
ship or party from and relying solely on magic is stupid and should be =
expolted by the GM/enemy.
eg. what happens to this brick if the bad guy have a namer to drop =
counters in the path of travel or dispell the current or just the boat.
Even normal weather could possibly swamp the boat/brick if it hasn't =
been designed properly. Ship strength just holds the boat together and =
mage current moves it neither stop it from capsizing or hitting a =
submerged tree or reef or something.
TTFN
Michael
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<STYLE>.hmmessage P {
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY class=3Dhmmessage bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Why? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>44 weeks of training, 19350ep and a masterwork =
should be=20
able to give you a fighting chance to save your ship from the evil water =
mage=20
and his mage current as he tries to drive your ship up on to the=20
reef....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>As it stands he doesn't even need the full rank =
20 to do=20
so, just 8 weeks and 5844ep to get to rank 10 is enough to give you more =
speed=20
than the fastest ship.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>So you can't out run a ship with a water mage =
with rank 10=20
mage current, and you can't catch one unless you have one yourself=20
.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The best mage wind in the world is only going to =
get to a=20
force 6 or strong breeze which probably counts as fair conditions, so =
even with=20
a mage wind your still getting only the best sail speed....if you have =
the crew=20
and the navigator to make use of it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Why should a water mage who needs no other help =
for the=20
same ep time etc. get double the result of an air mage, =
w</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial>ho also requires a navigator and crew.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>A little bit more speed, maybe up to half again =
at max=20
ranks would be okay.... its a water mage after all. But =
double?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dbig_mac_kd@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:big_mac_kd@hotmail.com">Michael=20
Scott</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 04, 2008 =
6:10=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current =
-- speed=20
etc</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I agree that for a mage current at high =
ranks to be=20
able to move a 'floating brick' twice as fast as the best=20
navigator on alusia in the best vessel afloat is just plain=20
wrong.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Why? I mean it is magic it is ment to do =
impossible=20
things. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>You might as well say that fly spells =
should be=20
removed becuase humans don't naturally have wings. We have a flying =
skill=20
becuase the spells while allowing you to fly (and fly faster than =
any=20
creature fantasical or other wise), doesn't automatically make you =
competant=20
in avoiding terain or each other and ending very =
messily.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>There are all sorts of dangers at sea =
that mage=20
current won't save a ship or party from and relying solely on magic =
is=20
stupid and should be expolted by the GM/enemy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>eg. what happens to this brick if the bad =
guy have=20
a namer to drop counters in the path of travel or dispell the =
current or=20
just the boat.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Even normal weather could possibly swamp =
the=20
boat/brick if it hasn't been designed properly. Ship strength just =
holds the=20
boat together and mage current moves it neither stop it from =
capsizing or=20
hitting a submerged tree or reef or something.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>TTFN</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT =
color=3D#ff0000>Michael</FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<HR>
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! <A=20
href=3D"http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/" =
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| Subject | Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion |
|---|---|
| From | Ian Wood |
| Date | Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:33:26 +1100 (EST) |
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hi all,=0A=0Aignoring mundane skills for a bit, my interpretation of the sp=
ell would, now, concur with Helen's approach. That interpretation, that the=
area of affect moves faster than the spell effects because the mage is now=
moving faster than the effect of the spell, feels kind of weird. but is in=
tuitively logical, especially as finely designed (elven?) craft can out sai=
l the wind by having a faster effective wind speed..=0A=0APerhaps the benef=
it of a navigator need to be enhanced, such as increased ranks reduces the =
impact of adverse weather. Especially as waves would wash straight over the=
mage-current-driven water and against the ship, barge, table.=0A=0AAs for =
mundane, I want my horsemanship improved, as there is magic that allows fly=
ing and that is not fair. We play in a magic-heavy world and the magical af=
fects are significantly more powerful than mundane effects (which makes mel=
ee combat kind of boring except that it is a 'criticals' system and cross-b=
owing mages with barbed cold iron bolts is fun).=0A=0AThe main thing, for m=
e, is that a ship may be sailed independently of the mage current, and that=
navigator makes the ship sail still faster.=0A=0Ai prefer 5 +1/rank but mo=
stly because 5 miles per hour is still quite a lot of speed to hit a wharf =
at.=0A=0AOf course all this would cease if the spell only worked on 'bound'=
water.=0A=0AIan=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Martin Dickson <m=
artin.dickson@gmail.com>=0ATo: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=0ASent: Tuesday, 4 March, 20=
08 9:25:44 AM=0ASubject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion=
=0A=0AOn Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrot=
e:=0A=0AIt's NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and there's mor=
e of them than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant because of =
a spell.=0AIt would appear, that whatever our current interpretations of th=
e extant Mage Current spell, we are in "heated agreement" (to borrow an Agi=
le development term) as to the preferred workings of the spell; to wit, tha=
t it should assist / compliment a ship's normal mode of travel, rather than=
replace it.=0A=0AAll that we are actually quibbling about is the speed con=
ferred. (Where I feel 5+1 is a bit much, but am willing to concede that 2+=
1/2 may be too little).=0A=0AMay I suggest then that Helen's additions be a=
dded to the spell for clarification of its effects, and we narrow the scope=
of this discussion to the miles per rank added?=0A=0ACheers,=0AMartin
--0-706946373-1204619606=:54786
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">hi all,</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FO=
NT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV>=0A<DIV sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif=
">ignoring mundane skills for a bit, my interpretation of the spell would, =
now, concur with Helen's approach. That interpretation, that the area of&nb=
sp;affect moves faster than the spell effects because the mage is now movin=
g faster than the effect of the spell, feels kind of weird. but is intuitiv=
ely logical, especially as finely designed (elven?) craft can out sail the =
wind by having a faster effective wind speed..</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DI=
V>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york,=
times, serif">Perhaps the benefit of a navigator need to be enhanced, such=
as increased ranks reduces the impact of adverse weather. Especially as wa=
ves would wash straight over the mage-current-driven water and against the =
ship, barge, table.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: tim=
es new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZ=
E: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">As for munda=
ne, I want my horsemanship improved, as there is magic that allows flying a=
nd that is not fair. We play in a magic-heavy world and the magical affects=
are significantly more powerful than mundane effects (which makes melee co=
mbat kind of boring except that it is a 'criticals' system and cross-bowing=
mages with barbed cold iron bolts is fun).</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE=
: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV>=
=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t=
imes, serif">The main thing, for me, is that a ship may be sailed inde=
pendently of the mage current, and that navigator makes the ship sail still=
faster.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roma=
n, new york, times, serif"> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FO=
NT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">i prefer 5 +1/rank but =
mostly because 5 miles per hour is still quite a lot of speed to =
hit a wharf at.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times n=
ew roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
2pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Of course all th=
is would cease if the spell only worked on 'bound' water.</DIV>=0A<DIV styl=
e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"=
> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">Ian</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-F=
AMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=
----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmai=
l.com><BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>Sent: Tuesday, 4 March, 2008 9:25:44 AM=
<BR>Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion<BR><BR>On Tue=
, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Withy <<A href=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co=
..nz" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">aw=
ithy@ihug.co.nz</A>> wrote:<BR>=0A<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>=0A<BLOCKQUOT=
E class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex=
; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">=0A<DIV lang=3DEN-GB>=0A<DIV>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt;=
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It's NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-w=
ater mage (and there's more of them than water mages!) to have a skill that=
is irrelevant because of a spell.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOT=
E>=0A<DIV>It would appear, that whatever our current interpretations of the=
extant Mage Current spell, we are in "heated agreement" (to borrow an Agil=
e development term) as to the preferred workings of the spell; to wit, that=
it should assist / compliment a ship's normal mode of travel, rather than =
replace it.<BR><BR>All that we are actually quibbling about is the speed co=
nferred. (Where I feel 5+1 is a bit much, but am willing to concede t=
hat 2+1/2 may be too little).<BR><BR>May I suggest then that Helen's additi=
ons be added to the spell for clarification of its effects, and we narrow t=
he scope of this discussion to the miles per rank added?<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>=
Martin<BR><BR><BR> </DIV></DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
2pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR></DIV></div>=
</body></html>
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