SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 00:02:04 +1300
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On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Helen Saggers <Helen@darksoft.co.nz> wrote:

>
> May I suggest a speed of 5 (+1/2 or part there of) that keeps it's low end
> speed useful for low ranked watermages and makes the top speed of a
> 'floating brick' only 15 mph or 13 knots.
>

5 + 1/2 (full) and you have a deal :-)  (From me at least -- the reason for
full rather than part is simply to put the top speed at 20 rather than 19).

Cheers,
Martin

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On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Helen Saggers &lt;<a href="mailto:Helen@darksoft.co.nz">Helen@darksoft.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">






<div bgcolor="#ffffff"><font face="Arial" size="2">
<div><br></div></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">May I suggest a speed of 5 (+1/2 or part there 
of)&nbsp;that keeps it&#39;s low end speed useful for low ranked watermages and 
makes the top speed of a &#39;floating brick&#39; only 15 mph or 13 
knots.&nbsp;</font></div></blockquote><div><br>5 + 1/2 (full) and you have a deal :-)&nbsp; (From me at least -- the reason for full rather than part is simply to put the top speed at 20 rather than 19). <br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br>
</div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc
FromMichael Scott
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 01:48:27 +1200
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And a Rank 10 Warrior (59,000 ep not counting weapons) can be killed by a R=
ank 0 whitefire (no ep, 50,000sp quest) spell if s/he fails a simple roll.
=20
Magic isn't fair but then neither is life, I have trained for ten years in =
martial arts yet a untrained child could take me down with a pistol before =
I could get near him. Fair? Not really but who wouldn't rather have the gun=
 and there opponent fists?
=20
While I agree with your interpritation of the spell write up, down powering=
 the speed just becuase it is unfair to those who don't have it seems silly=
.
=20
My characters spend money to carry investeds of those spells they deem esen=
tial to have and might even be tempted to pact/spend wishes on obtaining th=
e spells. Killing/knobbling all celestials say, becuase they have spells my=
 characters don't seems extreme.
=20
It seems that maybe navagator is underpowered/misunderstood more than the s=
pell is broken.
=20
TTFN
Bigmac



Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:45:44 +1300Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- speed=
 etcFrom: Helen@darksoft.co.nzTo: dq@dq.sf.org.nz



Why?=20
44 weeks of training, 19350ep and a masterwork should be able to give you a=
 fighting chance to save your ship from the evil water mage and his mage cu=
rrent as he tries to drive your ship up on to the reef....
As it stands he doesn't even need the full rank 20 to do so, just 8 weeks a=
nd 5844ep to get to rank 10 is enough to give you more speed than the faste=
st ship.
=20
So you can't out run a ship with a water mage with rank 10 mage current, an=
d you can't catch one unless you have one yourself .
=20
The best mage wind in the world is only going to get to a force 6 or strong=
 breeze which probably counts as fair conditions, so even with a mage wind =
your still getting only the best sail speed....if you have the crew and the=
 navigator to make use of it.
=20
Why should a water mage who needs no other help for the same ep time etc.  =
get double the result of an air mage, who also requires a navigator and cre=
w.
A little bit more speed, maybe up to half again at max ranks would be okay.=
... its a water mage after all. But double?
=20
Helen
=20
=20

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Michael Scott=20
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc


=20
I agree that for a mage current at high ranks to be able to move a 'floatin=
g brick' twice as fast as the best navigator on alusia in the best vessel a=
float is just plain wrong.
=20
Why? I mean it is magic it is ment to do impossible things.=20
=20
You might as well say that fly spells should be removed becuase humans don'=
t naturally have wings. We have a flying skill becuase the spells while all=
owing you to fly (and fly faster than any creature fantasical or other wise=
), doesn't automatically make you competant in avoiding terain or each othe=
r and ending very messily.
=20
There are all sorts of dangers at sea that mage current won't save a ship o=
r party from and relying solely on magic is stupid and should be expolted b=
y the GM/enemy.
=20
eg. what happens to this brick if the bad guy have a namer to drop counters=
 in the path of travel or dispell the current or just the boat.
=20
Even normal weather could possibly swamp the boat/brick if it hasn't been d=
esigned properly. Ship strength just holds the boat together and mage curre=
nt moves it neither stop it from capsizing or hitting a submerged tree or r=
eef or something.
=20
TTFN
Michael

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger=20
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/=

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<FONT color=3D#800080>And a Rank 10 Warrior (59,000 ep not counting weapons=
) can be killed by a Rank 0 whitefire (no ep, 50,000sp quest) spell if s/he=
 fails a simple roll.</FONT><BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080>Magic isn't fair but then neither is life, I have tra=
ined for ten years in martial arts yet a&nbsp;untrained&nbsp;child could ta=
ke me down with a pistol before I could get near him. Fair? Not really but =
who wouldn't rather have the gun&nbsp;and there opponent&nbsp;fists?</FONT>=
<BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080>While I agree with your interpritation of the spell w=
rite up, down powering the speed just becuase it is unfair to those who don=
't have it seems silly.</FONT><BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080>My characters spend money to carry investeds of those=
 spells they deem esential to have and might even be tempted to pact/spend =
wishes on obtaining the spells. Killing/knobbling all celestials say, becua=
se they have spells my characters don't seems extreme.</FONT><BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080>It seems that maybe navagator is underpowered/misunde=
rstood more than the spell is broken.</FONT><BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080>TTFN</FONT><BR>
<FONT color=3D#800080>Bigmac</FONT><BR>
<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:45:44 +1300<BR>Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- s=
peed etc<BR>From: Helen@darksoft.co.nz<BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><BR>
<META content=3D"Microsoft SafeHTML" name=3DGenerator>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Why? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>44 weeks of training, 19350ep and a masterwork shou=
ld be able to give you a fighting chance to save your ship from the evil wa=
ter mage and his mage current as he tries to drive your ship up on to the r=
eef....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>As it stands he doesn't even need the full rank 20 =
to do so, just 8 weeks and 5844ep to get to rank 10 is enough to give you m=
ore speed than the fastest ship.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>So you can't out run a ship with a water mage with =
rank 10 mage current, and you can't catch one unless you have one yourself =
.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The best mage wind in the world is only going to ge=
t to a force 6 or strong breeze which probably counts as fair conditions, s=
o even with a mage wind your still getting only the best sail speed....if y=
ou have the crew and the navigator to make use of it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Why should a water mage who needs no other help for=
 the same ep time etc.&nbsp; get double the result of an air mage, w</FONT>=
<FONT face=3DArial>ho also requires a navigator and crew.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>A little bit more speed, maybe up to half again at =
max ranks would be okay.... its a water mage after all. But double?</FONT><=
/DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5p=
x; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>=
From:</B> <A title=3Dbig_mac_kd@hotmail.com href=3D"mailto:big_mac_kd@hotma=
il.com">Michael Scott</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz href=
=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:10 P=
M</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current -- sp=
eed etc</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I agree that for a mage current at high ranks to=
 be able to move&nbsp;a 'floating brick' twice as fast as&nbsp;the best nav=
igator on alusia&nbsp;in the best vessel afloat is just plain wrong.</FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Why? I mean it is magic it is ment to do impossi=
ble things. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>You might as well say that fly spells should be =
removed becuase humans don't naturally have wings. We have a flying skill b=
ecuase the spells while allowing you to fly (and fly faster than any creatu=
re fantasical or other wise), doesn't automatically make you competant in a=
voiding terain or each other and ending very messily.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>There are all sorts of dangers at sea that mage =
current won't save a ship or party from and relying solely on magic is stup=
id and should be expolted by the GM/enemy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>eg. what happens to this brick if the bad guy ha=
ve a namer to drop counters in the path of travel or dispell the current or=
 just the boat.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Even normal weather could possibly swamp the boa=
t/brick if it hasn't been designed properly. Ship strength just holds the b=
oat together and mage current moves it neither stop it from capsizing or hi=
tting a submerged tree or reef or something.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>TTFN</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Michael</FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<HR>
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! <A href=3D"http://clk.atdmt.=
com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/" target=3D_blank>MSN Messenger</A> </B=
LOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr />Express yourself instantly with MSN Mess=
enger! <a href=3D'http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/' ta=
rget=3D'_new'>MSN Messenger</a></body>
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Subject[dq] Mage Current -- New Modification
FromHelen Saggers
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 08:32:00 +1300
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Since with it's a +1per 2 spells (the intermediate ranks improve CC and =
duration) its neither here nor there really weather you get the extra =
speed with the odd or even rank, I just like to see that first rank in a =
spell really count for some thing rather than the last add just that =
tiny bit more (relatively) :-)
There are a number of spells with +1 per ?or part there of that top out =
before 20.

But I'm willing to go with the +1 per 2 full ranks  This means the =
proposal for the changes to the spell read:

Effects: The Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a =
volume that moves with the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / 2 full =
Ranks) in one direction. All objects/entities, etc. within the range =
that are submerged in the water or floating on the water are carried at =
the speed of the current. Carried objects/entities are free to move =
within this volume normally, as in a non magical current. This movement =
may effectively increase (or decrease) their overall speed or allow them =
to exit the effect. The Adept may freely alter the direction of the mage =
current during the spell (requires active concentration). Passive =
concentration is required to maintain this spell.

Helen
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Martin Dickson=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc


  On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Helen Saggers <Helen@darksoft.co.nz> =
wrote:



    May I suggest a speed of 5 (+1/2 or part there of) that keeps it's =
low end speed useful for low ranked watermages and makes the top speed =
of a 'floating brick' only 15 mph or 13 knots.=20

  5 + 1/2 (full) and you have a deal :-)  (From me at least -- the =
reason for full rather than part is simply to put the top speed at 20 =
rather than 19).=20

  Cheers,
  Martin



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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Since with it's a +1per 2 spells (the =
intermediate=20
ranks improve CC and duration) its neither here nor there really weather =
you get=20
the extra speed with the odd or even rank, I just like to see&nbsp;that =
first=20
rank in a spell really count for some thing&nbsp;rather than the last =
add just=20
that tiny bit more (relatively)&nbsp;:-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There are a =
number of=20
spells with +1 per ?or part there of that top out before =
20.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But I'm willing to go with the +1 per 2 =
full=20
ranks&nbsp; This means the proposal for the changes to the spell=20
read:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>Effects: The=20
Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a volume that =
moves with=20
the Adept) of <STRONG>5 miles per hour</STRONG> <STRONG>(+1 / 2 full=20
Ranks)</STRONG> in one direction. All objects/entities, etc. within the =
range=20
that are submerged in the water or floating on the water are carried at =
the=20
speed of the current. <STRONG>Carried objects/entities are free to move =
within=20
this volume normally, as in a non magical current. This movement may =
effectively=20
increase (or decrease) their overall speed or&nbsp;allow them to exit =
the=20
effect. </STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>The Adept may freely alter the =
direction of the=20
mage current during the spell (requires active concentration). Passive=20
concentration is required to maintain this spell.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmartin.dickson@gmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">Martin Dickson</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 05, 2008 =
12:02=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current =
-- speed=20
  etc</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Helen Saggers &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Helen@darksoft.co.nz">Helen@darksoft.co.nz</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
    <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
    <DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>May I suggest a speed of 5 (+1/2 or part =
there=20
    of)&nbsp;that keeps it's low end speed useful for low ranked =
watermages and=20
    makes the top speed of a 'floating brick' only 15 mph or 13=20
    knots.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>5 + 1/2 (full) and you have a deal :-)&nbsp; (From me at =
least -- the=20
  reason for full rather than part is simply to put the top speed at 20 =
rather=20
  than 19).=20
<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject[dq] Mage Current -- New Modification
FromHelen Saggers
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 08:32:08 +1300
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Since with it's a +1per 2 spells (the intermediate ranks improve CC and =
duration) its neither here nor there really weather you get the extra =
speed with the odd or even rank, I just like to see that first rank in a =
spell really count for some thing rather than the last add just that =
tiny bit more (relatively) :-)
There are a number of spells with +1 per ?or part there of that top out =
before 20.

But I'm willing to go with the +1 per 2 full ranks  This means the =
proposal for the changes to the spell read:

Effects: The Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a =
volume that moves with the Adept) of 5 miles per hour (+1 / 2 full =
Ranks) in one direction. All objects/entities, etc. within the range =
that are submerged in the water or floating on the water are carried at =
the speed of the current. Carried objects/entities are free to move =
within this volume normally, as in a non magical current. This movement =
may effectively increase (or decrease) their overall speed or allow them =
to exit the effect. The Adept may freely alter the direction of the mage =
current during the spell (requires active concentration). Passive =
concentration is required to maintain this spell.

Helen
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Martin Dickson=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc


  On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Helen Saggers <Helen@darksoft.co.nz> =
wrote:



    May I suggest a speed of 5 (+1/2 or part there of) that keeps it's =
low end speed useful for low ranked watermages and makes the top speed =
of a 'floating brick' only 15 mph or 13 knots.=20

  5 + 1/2 (full) and you have a deal :-)  (From me at least -- the =
reason for full rather than part is simply to put the top speed at 20 =
rather than 19).=20

  Cheers,
  Martin



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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Since with it's a +1per 2 spells (the =
intermediate=20
ranks improve CC and duration) its neither here nor there really weather =
you get=20
the extra speed with the odd or even rank, I just like to see&nbsp;that =
first=20
rank in a spell really count for some thing&nbsp;rather than the last =
add just=20
that tiny bit more (relatively)&nbsp;:-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There are a =
number of=20
spells with +1 per ?or part there of that top out before =
20.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But I'm willing to go with the +1 per 2 =
full=20
ranks&nbsp; This means the proposal for the changes to the spell=20
read:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>Effects: The=20
Adept creates a current in the water within the range (a volume that =
moves with=20
the Adept) of <STRONG>5 miles per hour</STRONG> <STRONG>(+1 / 2 full=20
Ranks)</STRONG> in one direction. All objects/entities, etc. within the =
range=20
that are submerged in the water or floating on the water are carried at =
the=20
speed of the current. <STRONG>Carried objects/entities are free to move =
within=20
this volume normally, as in a non magical current. This movement may =
effectively=20
increase (or decrease) their overall speed or&nbsp;allow them to exit =
the=20
effect. </STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>The Adept may freely alter the =
direction of the=20
mage current during the spell (requires active concentration). Passive=20
concentration is required to maintain this spell.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmartin.dickson@gmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">Martin Dickson</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 05, 2008 =
12:02=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Mage Current =
-- speed=20
  etc</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Helen Saggers &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Helen@darksoft.co.nz">Helen@darksoft.co.nz</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
    <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
    <DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>May I suggest a speed of 5 (+1/2 or part =
there=20
    of)&nbsp;that keeps it's low end speed useful for low ranked =
watermages and=20
    makes the top speed of a 'floating brick' only 15 mph or 13=20
    knots.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>5 + 1/2 (full) and you have a deal :-)&nbsp; (From me at =
least -- the=20
  reason for full rather than part is simply to put the top speed at 20 =
rather=20
  than 19).=20
<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 09:10:34 +1300
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On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:48 AM, Michael Scott <big_mac_kd@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>  While I agree with your interpritation of the spell write up, down
> powering the speed just becuase it is unfair to those who don't have it
> seems silly.
>

The reason for reducing the speed is that while there is general agreement
that Helen's interpretation of the spell is preferable, most of the GMs are
not currently playing it that way, and changing to the "adds to natural
speed" over "replaces natural speed" will result (for most of the GMs) in a
nett increase in ship speeds.

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On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:48 AM, Michael Scott &lt;<a href="mailto:big_mac_kd@hotmail.com">big_mac_kd@hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">




<div>
<font color="#800080"></font><font color="#800080">While I agree with your interpritation of the spell write up, down powering the speed just becuase it is unfair to those who don&#39;t have it seems silly.</font><br>
</div></blockquote><div><br>The reason for reducing the speed is that while there is general agreement that Helen&#39;s interpretation of the spell is preferable, most of the GMs are not currently playing it that way, and changing to the &quot;adds to natural speed&quot; over &quot;replaces natural speed&quot; will result (for most of the GMs) in a nett increase in ship speeds.<br>
</div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromJonathan Bean
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 09:49:32 +1300
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Their is a long list of issues with the Water Mages college. Having a
Special Knowledge spell (S-5) with a 350 EM that turns 1 quart per rank of
liquid into drinkable water.

I am more in favour of a make over of the larger issues with Water Mage's
than fixing something that in my view is minor and a "none starter" in issue
league, other than maybe it gets played differently on different games.

As this doesn't go anywhere near addressing the many real issues and needs
in the college, I am not in favour of this minor fix.

-- 
Jonathan Bean

H: +64 9 828 2959
M: +64 21 917 173
G: jonobean@gmail.com



On 04/03/2008, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> hi all,
>
> ignoring mundane skills for a bit, my interpretation of the spell would,
> now, concur with Helen's approach. That interpretation, that the area
> of affect moves faster than the spell effects because the mage is now moving
> faster than the effect of the spell, feels kind of weird. but is intuitively
> logical, especially as finely designed (elven?) craft can out sail the wind
> by having a faster effective wind speed..
>
> Perhaps the benefit of a navigator need to be enhanced, such as increased
> ranks reduces the impact of adverse weather. Especially as waves would wash
> straight over the mage-current-driven water and against the ship, barge,
> table.
>
> As for mundane, I want my horsemanship improved, as there is magic that
> allows flying and that is not fair. We play in a magic-heavy world and the
> magical affects are significantly more powerful than mundane effects (which
> makes melee combat kind of boring except that it is a 'criticals' system and
> cross-bowing mages with barbed cold iron bolts is fun).
>
> The main thing, for me, is that a ship may be sailed independently of the
> mage current, and that navigator makes the ship sail still faster.
>
> i prefer 5 +1/rank but mostly because 5 miles per hour is still quite
> a lot of speed to hit a wharf at.
>
> Of course all this would cease if the spell only worked on 'bound' water.
>
> Ian
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com>
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Sent: Tuesday, 4 March, 2008 9:25:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz<awithy@ihug.co..nz>>
> wrote:
>
> >  It's NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and there's more of
> > them than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant because of a
> > spell.
> >
> It would appear, that whatever our current interpretations of the extant
> Mage Current spell, we are in "heated agreement" (to borrow an Agile
> development term) as to the preferred workings of the spell; to wit, that it
> should assist / compliment a ship's normal mode of travel, rather than
> replace it.
>
> All that we are actually quibbling about is the speed conferred.  (Where I
> feel 5+1 is a bit much, but am willing to concede that 2+1/2 may be too
> little).
>
> May I suggest then that Helen's additions be added to the spell for
> clarification of its effects, and we narrow the scope of this discussion to
> the miles per rank added?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Jonathan Bean

H: +64 9 828 2959
M: +64 21 917 173
G: jonobean@gmail.com

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<br>Their is a long list of issues with the Water Mages college. Having a Special Knowledge spell (S-5) with a 350 EM that turns 1 quart per rank of liquid into drinkable water.<br><br>I am more in favour of a make over of the larger issues with Water Mage&#39;s than fixing something that in my view is minor and a &quot;none starter&quot; in issue league, other than maybe it gets played differently on different games.<br>
<br>As this doesn&#39;t go anywhere near addressing the many real issues and needs in the college, I am not in favour of this minor fix.<br><br>-- <br>Jonathan Bean<br><br>H: +64 9 828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href="mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a><br>
<br><br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 04/03/2008, <b class="gmail_sendername">Ian Wood</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">hi all,</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">ignoring mundane skills for a bit, my interpretation of the spell would, now, concur with Helen&#39;s approach. That interpretation, that the area of&nbsp;affect moves faster than the spell effects because the mage is now moving faster than the effect of the spell, feels kind of weird. but is intuitively logical, especially as finely designed (elven?) craft can out sail the wind by having a faster effective wind speed..</div>

<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">Perhaps the benefit of a navigator need to be enhanced, such as increased ranks reduces the impact of adverse weather. Especially as waves would wash straight over the mage-current-driven water and against the ship, barge, table.</div>

<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">As for mundane, I want my horsemanship improved, as there is magic that allows flying and that is not fair. We play in a magic-heavy world and the magical affects are significantly more powerful than mundane effects (which makes melee combat kind of boring except that it is a &#39;criticals&#39; system and cross-bowing mages with barbed cold iron bolts is fun).</div>

<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">The main thing, for me,&nbsp;is that a ship may be sailed independently of the mage current, and that navigator makes the ship sail still faster.</div>

<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">i prefer 5 +1/rank but mostly because 5 miles per hour is still quite a&nbsp;lot of speed&nbsp;to hit a wharf at.</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">Of course all this would cease if the spell only worked on &#39;bound&#39; water.</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">&nbsp;</div><span class="sg">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">Ian</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">&nbsp;</div>
</span><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"><span class="q">----- Original Message ----<br>From: Martin Dickson &lt;<a href="mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">martin.dickson@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: <a href="mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br></span><span class="q">Sent: Tuesday, 4 March, 2008 9:25:44 AM<br>Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion<br>
<br></span><div><span class="e" id="q_11878edef396fe0e_5">On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Withy &lt;<a href="mailto:awithy@ihug.co..nz" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">awithy@ihug.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">It&#39;s NOT fun as a skilled navigator non-water mage (and there&#39;s more of them than water mages!) to have a skill that is irrelevant because of a spell.</span></font></p>
</div></div></blockquote>
<div>It would appear, that whatever our current interpretations of the extant Mage Current spell, we are in &quot;heated agreement&quot; (to borrow an Agile development term) as to the preferred workings of the spell; to wit, that it should assist / compliment a ship&#39;s normal mode of travel, rather than replace it.<br>
<br>All that we are actually quibbling about is the speed conferred.&nbsp; (Where I feel 5+1 is a bit much, but am willing to concede that 2+1/2 may be too little).<br><br>May I suggest then that Helen&#39;s additions be added to the spell for clarification of its effects, and we narrow the scope of this discussion to the miles per rank added?<br>
<br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br><br><br>&nbsp;</div></div><br></span></div></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Jonathan Bean<br><br>H: +64 9 828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href="mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromKeith Smith
DateWed, 05 Mar 2008 10:04:40 +1300
>Their is a long list of issues with the Water Mages college. Having 
>a Special Knowledge spell (S-5) with a 350 EM that turns 1 quart per 
>rank of liquid into drinkable water.

What sort of issues are we looking at Jono?

>I am more in favour of a make over of the larger issues with Water 
>Mage's than fixing something that in my view is minor and a "none 
>starter" in issue league, other than maybe it gets played 
>differently on different games.
>
>As this doesn't go anywhere near addressing the many real issues and 
>needs in the college, I am not in favour of this minor fix.

Maybe if we fix this perceived problem first ... but what other 
changes do you see that need fixing? Mind you .. I'm not in a 
position to help as I play, possibly, the most powerful PC water mage 
in the Guild.  Conflict of interest you know *g*

Keith


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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc
FromMichael Parkinson
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 12:27:02 +1300
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Point of Order/Chaos.

Could we keep the logic & analogies at least vaguely applicable.
Clearly Martin's changes are suggested are because he & others want BOTH
magic & Skills to apply: please argue to that point, especially pointing
out inconsistencies & consequences, or suggest valid counter-proposals,
including perhaps tweaked numbers, that you honestly consider worth
considering.  Make sure your are arguing the actual points raise, not
inventing straw men.

=20

Ex#1.

Why? I mean it is magic it is ment to do impossible things.=20

You might as well say that fly spells should be removed becuase humans
don't naturally have wings.

=20

A false analogy; which was so irritating that I almost missed an
interesting comment from the same writer.

=20

Ex#2.

As this doesn't go anywhere near addressing the many real issues and
needs in the college, I am not in favour of this minor fix.

=20

Illogical & contrary to our established practise.  Have you forgotten
we've often modified spells one-off when an inconsistency or undesirable
effect is detected.  Many of the other rules changes were each a "minor
fix".  The only problem with minor fixes is that they are so easy, that
sometimes they fail to make it into the next official version of the
Rules.

=20

Regards, Michael

=20

Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858)
Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D

1883-2008: Celebrating 125 Years=20

=20

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Michael Scott
Sent: Tuesday, 4 March 2008 6:10 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc

=20

	=20

=09
	=20

	I agree that for a mage current at high ranks to be able to move
a 'floating brick' twice as fast as the best navigator on alusia in the
best vessel afloat is just plain wrong.

	=20

	Why? I mean it is magic it is ment to do impossible things.=20

	=20

	You might as well say that fly spells should be removed becuase
humans don't naturally have wings. We have a flying skill becuase the
spells while allowing you to fly (and fly faster than any creature
fantasical or other wise), doesn't automatically make you competant in
avoiding terain or each other and ending very messily.

	=20

	There are all sorts of dangers at sea that mage current won't
save a ship or party from and relying solely on magic is stupid and
should be expolted by the GM/enemy.

	=20

	eg. what happens to this brick if the bad guy have a namer to
drop counters in the path of travel or dispell the current or just the
boat.

	=20

	Even normal weather could possibly swamp the boat/brick if it
hasn't been designed properly. Ship strength just holds the boat
together and mage current moves it neither stop it from capsizing or
hitting a submerged tree or reef or something.

	=20

	TTFN

	Michael

=20

________________________________

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger
<http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/>=20


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Point of
Order/Chaos.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Could we
keep the logic &amp; analogies at least vaguely applicable.&nbsp; =
Clearly Martin&#8217;s
changes are suggested are because he &amp; others want BOTH magic &amp; =
Skills
to apply: please argue to <i>that</i> point, especially pointing out =
<b>inconsistencies</b>
&amp; <b>consequences</b>, or suggest valid <b>counter</b>-proposals, =
including
perhaps tweaked numbers, that you honestly consider worth =
considering.&nbsp; Make
sure your are arguing the actual points raise, not inventing straw =
men.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Ex#1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:red'>Why? I =
mean it is
magic it is ment to do impossible things. </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:red'>You =
might as well
say that fly spells should be removed becuase humans don't naturally =
have
wings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>A false analogy;
which was so irritating that I almost missed an interesting comment from =
the
same writer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Ex#2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:red'>As this =
doesn't go
anywhere near addressing the many real issues and needs in the college, =
I am
not in favour of this minor fix.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Illogical
&amp; contrary to our established practise. &nbsp;Have you forgotten =
we&#8217;ve
often modified spells one-off when an inconsistency or undesirable =
effect is
detected.&nbsp; Many of the other rules changes were each a &#8220;minor =
fix&#8221;.&nbsp;
The only problem with minor fixes is that they are so easy, that =
sometimes they
fail to make it into the next official version of the =
Rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Regards,
Michael<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=


<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Michael
Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858)<br>
Mathematics &amp; Statistics Subject Librarian<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>1883-2008:
Celebrating 125 Years <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=


<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz =
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Scott<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 4 March 2008 6:10 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Mage Current -- speed etc<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I agree that for a mage current at high ranks to be able to
move&nbsp;a 'floating brick' twice as fast as&nbsp;the best navigator on
alusia&nbsp;in the best vessel afloat is just plain wrong.</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>Why? I mean it is magic it is ment to do impossible things. =
</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>You might as well say that fly spells should be removed =
becuase
humans don't naturally have wings. We have a flying skill becuase the =
spells
while allowing you to fly (and fly faster than any creature fantasical =
or other
wise), doesn't automatically make you competant in avoiding terain or =
each
other and ending very messily.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>There are all sorts of dangers at sea that mage current won't =
save a
ship or party from and relying solely on magic is stupid and should be =
expolted
by the GM/enemy.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>eg. what happens to this brick if the bad guy have a namer to =
drop
counters in the path of travel or dispell the current or just the =
boat.</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>Even normal weather could possibly swamp the boat/brick if it =
hasn't
been designed properly. Ship strength just holds the boat together and =
mage
current moves it neither stop it from capsizing or hitting a submerged =
tree or
reef or something.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>TTFN</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>Michael</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>

</div>

</blockquote>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Express
yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! <a
href=3D"http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/" =
target=3D"_new">MSN
Messenger</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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Subject[dq] (SLIGHTLY)-OFFTOPIC: Gary Gygax passes
FromStruan Judd
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 12:36:41 +1300
http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/03/report-gary-gyg.html

Failed: Save vs Stunning roll
Failed (by 1): Save vs "Make lame jokes" roll

The end of a Geek era.

TTFN, Struan


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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 13:26:41 +1300
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On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> As this doesn't go anywhere near addressing the many real issues and needs
> in the college, I am not in favour of this minor fix.


You don't want to fix it because there are worse things broken?!

Makes sense... I'll stop trimming my trees because there are famines in
Africa.

Putz.

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On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Jonathan Bean &lt;<a href="mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>As this doesn&#39;t go anywhere near addressing the many real issues and needs in the college, I am not in favour of this minor fix.</blockquote><div><br>You don&#39;t want to fix it because there are worse things broken?!<br>
<br>Makes sense... I&#39;ll stop trimming my trees because there are famines in Africa.<br><br>Putz.<br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 13:47:06 +1300
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On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Putz.

Because email is notoriously toneless, and because I wouldn't wish the
recipient to think my intent was the rather more offensive meaning of "Putz"
-- nor for that matter that I was calling him a decorative, miniature-scale
Christmas village <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putz> -- I offer instead the
parting exclamation of
"Meshuggener<http://www.thefreedictionary.com/meshuggener>
".

Kindest Regards,
Martin

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On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Martin Dickson &lt;<a href="mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Putz.<br><br>Because email is notoriously toneless, and because I wouldn&#39;t wish the recipient to think my intent was the rather more offensive meaning of &quot;Putz&quot; -- nor for that matter that I was calling him a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putz">decorative, miniature-scale Christmas village</a> -- I offer instead the parting exclamation of &quot;<a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/meshuggener">Meshuggener</a>&quot;.<br>
<br>Kindest Regards,<br>Martin<br><br><br> 

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromBernard Hoggins
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 17:02:56 +1100 (EST)
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While I won't be at the guild meeting (Side note, are proxy votes allowed, I forget our policy on that).
The Combination of Helens wording and the 5 + 1/2 speed has my support.  At Rk 20 the faster sailing ships will come out at a similar resultant speed, while barges will slow a little.  A Rk 0-6 mage still gets similar to faster than they got before once the boat speed is taken into account.
This is a good outcome as far as I'm concerned.

And while I do agree that other things probably need reviewing also, that can be said across the board, and this is a start towards fixing those things.

Bernard.

       
---------------------------------
Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
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While I won't be at the guild meeting (Side note, are proxy votes allowed, I forget our policy on that).<br>The Combination of Helens wording and the 5 + 1/2 speed has my support.&nbsp; At Rk 20 the faster sailing ships will come out at a similar resultant speed, while barges will slow a little.&nbsp; A Rk 0-6 mage still gets similar to faster than they got before once the boat speed is taken into account.<br>This is a good outcome as far as I'm concerned.<br><br>And while I do agree that other things probably need reviewing also, that can be said across the board, and this is a start towards fixing those things.<br><br>Bernard.<br><p>&#32;


      <hr size=1>
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Subject[dq] Liquid Purification
FromHelen Saggers
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 21:26:47 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Jono=20
What is your issue with this spell ?

Do you think you should get more bang (or water) for your ep?
While basically you can make a days drinking water for a person per =
rank, even at maximum rank you are only purifying just over 5 gallons or =
a large bucket full. Not a lot of water for a rank 20 spell

Or is it that you think the volume is okay its just the EM. is too high. =
Its drinkable water you are making after all is said and done is not the =
wine you can create with Liquid Transmutation spell which has the same =
EM.

Or is it a bit of both?
Melting the ice from the Ice colleges general knowledge spell Ice =
creation 100 EM  will net you 3 times as much water at rank 0 (roughly) =
as the same rank (0) purification and by melting the ice block from a =
rank 2 spell you get way more water than you can get from a rank 20 =
purification spell. But then its going to take a while to melt your Ice =
Block =20

Should Liquid Purification have a similarly low EM, and a volume of =
gallons per rank so you can at least purify a the equal of a 44 gallon =
drum at rank 20?=20

The spell only costs 2000sp to buy.

Helen

 
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jono </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What is your issue with this spell =
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you think you should get more bang =
(or water)=20
for your ep?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>While basically you can make a days =
drinking water=20
for a person per rank, even at maximum rank you are only =
purifying&nbsp;just=20
over&nbsp;5 gallons or a large&nbsp;bucket full. Not a lot of water for =
a rank=20
20 spell</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or&nbsp;is it that you think the volume =
is okay its=20
just the EM. is too high. Its drinkable water you are making after all =
is said=20
and done is not the wine you can create with Liquid Transmutation spell =
which=20
has the same EM.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or is it a bit of both?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Melting the ice from the Ice =
colleges&nbsp;general=20
knowledge spell Ice creation&nbsp;100 EM&nbsp; will net you 3 times as =
much=20
water at rank&nbsp;0&nbsp;(roughly) as the same rank (0) purification =
and by=20
melting the ice&nbsp;block from a&nbsp;rank&nbsp;2&nbsp;spell you get =
way more=20
water than you can get from a rank 20 purification spell. But =
then&nbsp;its=20
going to take a while to melt your Ice Block &nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Should&nbsp;Liquid&nbsp;Purification =
have a=20
similarly low&nbsp;EM, and a volume of gallons per&nbsp;rank so you can =
at least=20
purify a&nbsp;the equal of a 44 gallon drum at rank =
20?&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The spell only costs 2000sp to =
buy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mage Current -- modification discussion
FromJonathan Bean
DateWed, 5 Mar 2008 21:37:05 +1300
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Bernard most things about rule issues have become unclear to everyone. At
one point we had a system, which did not allow proxy votes - with the idea
to stop stacking gods meetings, but thats another story. At this time since
we have no clear system, so send in your proxy vote and it may somehow
count.

Helen Re: Racial EMs - this failed even thou the GMs voted to change it,
because Errol chose not to follow the except system and was running that
Gods meeting at the time, and he decided to suddenly allow changes to the
agenda part way thru a vote. Since their is no regard or understanding for
the system of; how we talk about rules, or go about changing rules, or
voting on them, or respect for the agenda/system, their is little to no
point.

At this time, we seem to have a chaotic system, disregarded or unknown by
many.

Jono

On 05/03/2008, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> While I won't be at the guild meeting (Side note, are proxy votes allowed,
> I forget our policy on that).
> The Combination of Helens wording and the 5 + 1/2 speed has my support.
> At Rk 20 the faster sailing ships will come out at a similar resultant
> speed, while barges will slow a little.  A Rk 0-6 mage still gets similar to
> faster than they got before once the boat speed is taken into account.
> This is a good outcome as far as I'm concerned.
>
> And while I do agree that other things probably need reviewing also, that
> can be said across the board, and this is a start towards fixing those
> things.
>
> Bernard.
>
> ------------------------------
> Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address<http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/taglines/au/y7mail/default/*http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail/?p1=ni&p2=general&p3=tagline&p4=other>.
>
>
>


-- 
Jonathan Bean

H: +64 9 828 2959
M: +64 21 917 173
G: jonobean@gmail.com

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Bernard most things about rule issues have become unclear to everyone. At one point we had a system, which did not allow proxy votes - with the idea to stop stacking gods meetings, but thats another story. At this time since we have no clear system, so send in your proxy vote and it may somehow count.<br>
<br>Helen Re: Racial EMs - this failed even thou the GMs voted to change it, because Errol chose not to follow the except system and was running that Gods meeting at the time, and he decided to suddenly allow changes to the agenda part way thru a vote. Since their is no regard or understanding for the system of; how we talk about rules, or go about changing rules, or voting on them, or respect for the agenda/system, their is little to no point.<br>
<br>At this time, we seem to have a chaotic system, disregarded or unknown by many. <br><br>Jono<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 05/03/2008, <b class="gmail_sendername">Bernard Hoggins</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
While I won&#39;t be at the guild meeting (Side note, are proxy votes allowed, I forget our policy on that).<br>The Combination of Helens wording and the 5 + 1/2 speed has my support.&nbsp; At Rk 20 the faster sailing ships will come out at a similar resultant speed, while barges will slow a little.&nbsp; A Rk 0-6 mage still gets similar to faster than they got before once the boat speed is taken into account.<br>
This is a good outcome as far as I&#39;m concerned.<br><br>And while I do agree that other things probably need reviewing also, that can be said across the board, and this is a start towards fixing those things.<br><br>Bernard.<br>
<p> 


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<p></p></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Jonathan Bean<br><br>H: +64 9 828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href="mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>

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