SubjectRe: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
FromAndrew Withy
DateTue, 29 Apr 2008 00:13:31 +1200
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Science says 'yes'. A mouse and an elephant with the same
proportionally-sized wound heal in quite different times. I think this is
because the proportionality of the wound is 3-D, and the cells growing to
close the width of the cut that needs healing is what takes the time
(healing is square, elephants are cubic). The equivalent process for
regeneration would be the length of the limb, which is also based on the
number of cells in a straight line (different dimension, still proportional)
- unless regeneration uses pure/optimsed binary fission, in which case its
proportional to ln(x^3), and thus only a small constant is added for larger
creatures.

 

Fantasy says 'who cares'. Let's keep it simple. Big regen takes up to a
week. Little regen takes as little as a day. Having the missing body part
saves significant time, depending on its condition. End of rule. (might need
to be re-written in rules English). The GM can make up numbers based on the
dramatic tension of the plot, and whether they want partially-healed
adventurers hobbling into combat on peg legs, or fully healed adventurers
raring to go - obviously if it's a pirate scenario, the former is a dramatic
necessity. I suggest a minimum of a day, to stop PCs chopping off their own
fingers for entertainment/garnish and regening them while cooking.

 

Andrew

 

  _____  

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Martin Dickson
Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 10:25 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration

 

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Michael Woodhams <mdw@free.net.nz> wrote:

The size increment could be by length, mass, volume or percentage of body
mass/length. (Should it take twice as long to regenerate a giant's leg
compared to a human's?)


Do giants take twice as long to heal normal wounds compared to a human?  If
a human and a giant (and a halfling to further illustrate) each get a wicked
slash the length of their forearm that has to heal naturally does the
halfling heal faster than the human, and the human faster than giant because
their arms are shorter? No?  Then why would regeneration have a size
variance factor?

Cheers,
Martin

 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Science says &#8216;yes&#8217;. A =
mouse
and an elephant with the same proportionally-sized wound heal in quite
different times. I think this is because the proportionality of the =
wound is
3-D, and the cells growing to close the width of the cut that needs =
healing is
what takes the time (healing is square, elephants are cubic). The =
equivalent process
for regeneration would be the length of the limb, which is also based on =
the
number of cells in a straight line (different dimension, still =
proportional) &#8211;
unless regeneration uses pure/optimsed binary fission, in which case its =
proportional
to ln(x^3), and thus only a small constant is added for larger =
creatures.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Fantasy says &#8216;who =
cares&#8217;. Let&#8217;s
keep it simple. Big regen takes up to a week. Little regen takes as =
little as a
day. Having the missing body part saves significant time, depending on =
its
condition. End of rule. (might need to be re-written in rules English). =
The GM can
make up numbers based on the dramatic tension of the plot, and whether =
they
want partially-healed adventurers hobbling into combat on peg legs, or =
fully
healed adventurers raring to go - obviously if it&#8217;s a pirate =
scenario, the
former is a dramatic necessity. I suggest a minimum of a day, to stop =
PCs
chopping off their own fingers for entertainment/garnish and regening =
them
while cooking.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

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face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Martin Dickson<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 28 April =
2008 10:25
a.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Healer =
-
Regeneration</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Michael Woodhams &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:mdw@free.net.nz">mdw@free.net.nz</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>The size increment could be by length, mass, volume or =
percentage of
body mass/length. (Should it take twice as long to regenerate a giant's =
leg
compared to a human's?)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
Do giants take twice as long to heal normal wounds compared to a =
human?&nbsp;
If a human and a giant (and a halfling to further illustrate) each get a =
wicked
slash the length of their forearm that has to heal naturally does the =
halfling
heal faster than the human, and the human faster than giant because =
their arms
are shorter? No?&nbsp; Then why would regeneration have a size variance =
factor?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Martin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
FromIan Wood
DateTue, 29 Apr 2008 06:58:11 +1000 (EST)
--0-1229513480-1209416291=:32152
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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yay!!=0ARosemary - could you please give Andrew a big hug for his second pa=
ragraph?=0A=0AAlso, I really wonder on the merits of this discussion. It is=
 a sub skil that kicks in at Rank 9, so few have it. We are arguing that a =
Rank 10 Healer should regenerate quicker than a Rank 9, and I dont care for=
 the distinction. Then there are the Demons at Rank 15. Most Demons are NPC=
s and GMs can do as they wish. May be we want guidelines for GMs, but it do=
es not take huge rule discussions for those.=0A=0AAt the risk of sounding l=
ike Jim, what are the benefits to the game of changing this rule? Rank 10 a=
nd Rank 15 Healers get to reduce the time taken to regenerate limbs etc. We=
 (hopefully) respect the magical component and the need for simplicity in t=
he rules and specify that regeneration takes some time, regardless of propo=
rtion, size or race.=0AI argue for proportion as I cannot see, in game term=
s, any difference between amputation below the knee or above the knee. You =
hop, or struggle with a crutch regardless, and same for an arm. A minor ele=
ment, such as a finger or ear, may be less.=0A=0AMy recomendation therefore=
 is to either stop dicussing this rule, or ask someone clever like Errol to=
 propose an amendment, something like:=0AHigher ranks in Healer may reduce =
the time taken to regenerate a limb. The regeneration takes the same time r=
egardless of race, size and proportion of limb to be regenerated. Minor ele=
ments, such as ears and fingers may be regenerated in a much shorter time, =
but no less than a full day.=0A=0AIan=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=
=0AFrom: Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz>=0ATo: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=0ASent: Tue=
sday, 29 April, 2008 12:13:31 AM=0ASubject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration=
=0A=0A=0AScience says =E2=80=98yes=E2=80=99. A mouse and an elephant with t=
he same proportionally-sized wound heal in quite different times. I think t=
his is because the proportionality of the wound is 3-D, and the cells growi=
ng to close the width of the cut that needs healing is what takes the time =
(healing is square, elephants are cubic). The equivalent process for regene=
ration would be the length of the limb, which is also based on the number o=
f cells in a straight line (different dimension, still proportional) =E2=80=
=93 unless regeneration uses pure/optimsed binary fission, in which case it=
s proportional to ln(x^3), and thus only a small constant is added for larg=
er creatures.=0A =0AFantasy says =E2=80=98who cares=E2=80=99. Let=E2=80=99s=
 keep it simple. Big regen takes up to a week. Little regen takes as little=
 as a day. Having the missing body part saves significant time, depending o=
n its condition. End of rule. (might need to be re-written in rules English=
). The GM can make up numbers based on the dramatic tension of the plot, an=
d whether they want partially-healed adventurers hobbling into combat on pe=
g legs, or fully healed adventurers raring to go - obviously if it=E2=80=99=
s a pirate scenario, the former is a dramatic necessity. I suggest a minimu=
m of a day, to stop PCs chopping off their own fingers for entertainment/ga=
rnish and regening them while cooking.=0A =0AAndrew=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: dq=
-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Martin Dick=
son=0ASent: Monday, 28 April 2008 10:25 a.m.=0ATo: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=0ASubjec=
t: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration=0A =0AOn Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Mi=
chael Woodhams <mdw@free.net.nz> wrote:=0AThe size increment could be by le=
ngth, mass, volume or percentage of body mass/length. (Should it take twice=
 as long to regenerate a giant's leg compared to a human's?)=0A=0ADo giants=
 take twice as long to heal normal wounds compared to a human?  If a human =
and a giant (and a halfling to further illustrate) each get a wicked slash =
the length of their forearm that has to heal naturally does the halfling he=
al faster than the human, and the human faster than giant because their arm=
s are shorter? No?  Then why would regeneration have a size variance factor=
?=0A=0ACheers,=0AMartin=0A 
--0-1229513480-1209416291=:32152
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">yay!!</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT=
-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Rosemary - could you plea=
se give Andrew a big hug for his second paragraph?</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;=
</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new y=
ork, times, serif">Also, I really wonder on the merits of this discussion. =
It is a sub skil that kicks in at Rank 9, so few have it. We are arguing th=
at a Rank 10 Healer should regenerate quicker than a Rank 9, and I dont car=
e for the distinction. Then there are the Demons at Rank 15. Most Demons ar=
e NPCs and GMs can do as they wish. May be we want guidelines for GMs, but =
it does not take huge rule discussions for those.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FON=
T-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;<=
/DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new yo=
rk, times, serif">At the risk of sounding like Jim, what are the benefits t=
o the game of changing this rule? Rank 10 and Rank 15 Healers get to reduce=
 the time taken to regenerate limbs etc. We (hopefully) respect the magical=
 component and the need for simplicity in the rules and specify that regene=
ration takes some time, regardless of proportion, size&nbsp;or race.</DIV>=
=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t=
imes, serif">I argue for&nbsp;proportion as I cannot see, in game terms, an=
y difference between amputation below the knee or above the knee. You hop, =
or struggle with a crutch regardless, and same for an arm. A minor element,=
 such as a finger or ear, may be less.<BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE:=
 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">My recomendati=
on therefore is to either stop dicussing this rule, or ask someone clever l=
ike Errol to propose an amendment, something like:</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Higher=
 ranks in Healer may reduce the time taken to regenerate a limb. The regene=
ration takes the same time regardless of race, size and proportion of limb =
to be regenerated. Minor elements, such as ears and fingers may be regenera=
ted in a much shorter time, but no less than a full day.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=
&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,=
 new york, times, serif">Ian</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FA=
MILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV styl=
e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"=
>----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Andrew Withy &lt;awithy@ihug.co.nz&gt=
;<BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>Sent: Tuesday, 29 April, 2008 12:13:31 AM<BR>Su=
bject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration<BR><BR>=0A<STYLE>=0A<!--=0A _filtered=
 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}=0A/* Style Definitions=
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tom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";}=0Aa:link, span=
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pt 89.85pt 72.0pt 89.85pt;}=0Adiv.Section1=0A=09{}=0A-->=0A</STYLE>=0A=0A<D=
IV class=3DSection1>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy=
 size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">=
Science says =E2=80=98yes=E2=80=99. A mouse and an elephant with the same p=
roportionally-sized wound heal in quite different times. I think this is be=
cause the proportionality of the wound is 3-D, and the cells growing to clo=
se the width of the cut that needs healing is what takes the time (healing =
is square, elephants are cubic). The equivalent process for regeneration wo=
uld be the length of the limb, which is also based on the number of cells i=
n a straight line (different dimension, still proportional) =E2=80=93 unles=
s regeneration uses pure/optimsed binary fission, in which case its proport=
ional to ln(x^3), and thus only a small constant is added for larger creatu=
res.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dna=
vy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial=
">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=
=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Fantasy says =E2=80=98who cares=E2=80=99. Let=E2=80=99s keep it simp=
le. Big regen takes up to a week. Little regen takes as little as a day. Ha=
ving the missing body part saves significant time, depending on its conditi=
on. End of rule. (might need to be re-written in rules English). The GM can=
 make up numbers based on the dramatic tension of the plot, and whether the=
y want partially-healed adventurers hobbling into combat on peg legs, or fu=
lly healed adventurers raring to go - obviously if it=E2=80=99s a pirate sc=
enario, the former is a dramatic necessity. I suggest a minimum of a day, t=
o stop PCs chopping off their own fingers for entertainment/garnish and reg=
ening them while cooking.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT fa=
ce=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: nav=
y; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FON=
T face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR:=
 navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Andrew</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal>=
<FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; CO=
LOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Tim=
es New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A<HR tabIndex=3D-1=
 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>=0A</SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bo=
ld; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=
=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> dq=
-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-W=
EIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Martin Dickson<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FO=
NT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 28 April 2008 10:25 a.m.<BR><B><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [dq] Healer - Regenerat=
ion</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D=
"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Michael Woodhams &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:mdw@free.net.nz" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"m=
ailto:mdw@free.net.nz">mdw@free.net.nz</A>&gt; wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<=
DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; =
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; MARGIN-LEF=
T: 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 0=
cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The size increment cou=
ld be by length, mass, volume or percentage of body mass/length. (Should it=
 take twice as long to regenerate a giant's leg compared to a human's?)</SP=
AN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Ti=
mes New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Do giants take =
twice as long to heal normal wounds compared to a human?&nbsp; If a human a=
nd a giant (and a halfling to further illustrate) each get a wicked slash t=
he length of their forearm that has to heal naturally does the halfling hea=
l faster than the human, and the human faster than giant because their arms=
 are shorter? No?&nbsp; Then why would regeneration have a size variance fa=
ctor?<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>=0A<P class=3DM=
soNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt;=
 FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR></DIV></div></bo=
dy></html>
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SubjectRe: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
FromStephen Martin
DateTue, 29 Apr 2008 10:38:01 +1200 (NZST)
Oh no, you've rumbled me, I raised this issue specifically for the purpose of wasting your time.
If you don't care about the issue, or don't want to discuss it then don't.  Just put the mouse
down and walk away.  Nobody is forcing you to inhale - it's one of the beauties of an on-line
discussion, nobody else will even know that you saw the Subject line and hit delete.

For those that do care, I raised this because I play a Rk10+ Healer and on trying to Regenerate
wounds to other characters I found it unusable.
It is dis-satisfying to me as a player when my character with extraordinary skill and artifacts
does not get to use the skill because it is too slow and disruptive to the flow of the game. 
Instead NPCs and other non-standard gm widgets get used to do the job and continue the game.

btw Thanks to all those who have been constructively contributing, I think there is general
agreement of principals, I'll see if I can phrase it reasonably in rule-speak.

Cheers, Stephen.

Ian Wood wrote:
> Also, I really wonder on the merits of this discussion. It is a sub skil that kicks in at Rank 9,
> so few have it. We are arguing that a Rank 10 Healer should regenerate quicker than a Rank 9, and
> I dont care for the distinction. Then there are the Demons at Rank 15. Most Demons are NPCs and
> GMs can do as they wish. May be we want guidelines for GMs, but it does not take huge rule
> discussions for those.
>
> At the risk of sounding like Jim, what are the benefits to the game of changing this rule? Rank 10
> and Rank 15 Healers get to reduce the time taken to regenerate limbs etc. We (hopefully) respect
> the magical component and the need for simplicity in the rules and specify that regeneration takes
> some time, regardless of proportion, size or race.
> I argue for proportion as I cannot see, in game terms, any difference between amputation below the
> knee or above the knee. You hop, or struggle with a crutch regardless, and same for an arm. A
> minor element, such as a finger or ear, may be less.
>
> My recomendation therefore is to either stop dicussing this rule, or ask someone clever like Errol
> to propose an amendment, something like:
> Higher ranks in Healer may reduce the time taken to regenerate a limb. The regeneration takes the
> same time regardless of race, size and proportion of limb to be regenerated. Minor elements, such
> as ears and fingers may be regenerated in a much shorter time, but no less than a full day.
>
> Ian
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz>
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 April, 2008 12:13:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
>
>
> Science says &#65533;&#65533;yes&#65533;&#65533;. A mouse and an elephant with the same
proportionally-sized wound heal in
> quite different times. I think this is because the proportionality of the wound is 3-D, and the
> cells growing to close the width of the cut that needs healing is what takes the time (healing is
> square, elephants are cubic). The equivalent process for regeneration would be the length of the
> limb, which is also based on the number of cells in a straight line (different dimension, still
> proportional) &#65533;&#65533; unless regeneration uses pure/optimsed binary fission, in which
case its
> proportional to ln(x^3), and thus only a small constant is added for larger creatures.
>
> Fantasy says &#65533;&#65533;who cares&#65533;&#65533;. Let&#65533;&#65533;s keep it simple.
Big regen takes up to a week. Little regen
> takes as little as a day. Having the missing body part saves significant time, depending on its
> condition. End of rule. (might need to be re-written in rules English). The GM can make up numbers
> based on the dramatic tension of the plot, and whether they want partially-healed adventurers
> hobbling into combat on peg legs, or fully healed adventurers raring to go - obviously if
it&#65533;&#65533;s a
> pirate scenario, the former is a dramatic necessity. I suggest a minimum of a day, to stop PCs
> chopping off their own fingers for entertainment/garnish and regening them while cooking.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Martin Dickson
> Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 10:25 a.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Michael Woodhams <mdw@free.net.nz> wrote:
> The size increment could be by length, mass, volume or percentage of body mass/length. (Should it
> take twice as long to regenerate a giant's leg compared to a human's?)
>
> Do giants take twice as long to heal normal wounds compared to a human?  If a human and a giant
> (and a halfling to further illustrate) each get a wicked slash the length of their forearm that
> has to heal naturally does the halfling heal faster than the human, and the human faster than
> giant because their arms are shorter? No?  Then why would regeneration have a size variance
> factor?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
FromIan Wood
DateTue, 29 Apr 2008 10:18:54 +1000 (EST)
you are welcome Stephen :-)
Now I know why it is important to you.

You want a rule change to benefit your character.
That takes me back to the Gods meetings of the 1980s when rule changes were pushed through for the sole benefit of a GM/God/player's PC.
<sigh> 

My approach would be to write a special ability for your NPC with respect to this and linked to your Rank10+ Healer skill, rather than to change the rules to suit you. 
Different strokes for different folks.


Ian

----- Original Message ----
From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net>
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Sent: Tuesday, 29 April, 2008 10:38:01 AM
Subject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration

Oh no, you've rumbled me, I raised this issue specifically for the purpose of wasting your time.
If you don't care about the issue, or don't want to discuss it then don't.  Just put the mouse
down and walk away.  Nobody is forcing you to inhale - it's one of the beauties of an on-line
discussion, nobody else will even know that you saw the Subject line and hit delete.

For those that do care, I raised this because I play a Rk10+ Healer and on trying to Regenerate
wounds to other characters I found it unusable.
It is dis-satisfying to me as a player when my character with extraordinary skill and artifacts
does not get to use the skill because it is too slow and disruptive to the flow of the game.
Instead NPCs and other non-standard gm widgets get used to do the job and continue the game.

btw Thanks to all those who have been constructively contributing, I think there is general
agreement of principals, I'll see if I can phrase it reasonably in rule-speak.

Cheers, Stephen.

Ian Wood wrote:
> Also, I really wonder on the merits of this discussion. It is a sub skil that kicks in at Rank 9,
> so few have it. We are arguing that a Rank 10 Healer should regenerate quicker than a Rank 9, and
> I dont care for the distinction. Then there are the Demons at Rank 15. Most Demons are NPCs and
> GMs can do as they wish. May be we want guidelines for GMs, but it does not take huge rule
> discussions for those.
>
> At the risk of sounding like Jim, what are the benefits to the game of changing this rule? Rank 10
> and Rank 15 Healers get to reduce the time taken to regenerate limbs etc. We (hopefully) respect
> the magical component and the need for simplicity in the rules and specify that regeneration takes
> some time, regardless of proportion, size or race.
> I argue for proportion as I cannot see, in game terms, any difference between amputation below the
> knee or above the knee. You hop, or struggle with a crutch regardless, and same for an arm. A
> minor element, such as a finger or ear, may be less.
>
> My recomendation therefore is to either stop dicussing this rule, or ask someone clever like Errol
> to propose an amendment, something like:
> Higher ranks in Healer may reduce the time taken to regenerate a limb. The regeneration takes the
> same time regardless of race, size and proportion of limb to be regenerated. Minor elements, such
> as ears and fingers may be regenerated in a much shorter time, but no less than a full day.
>
> Ian
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz>
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 April, 2008 12:13:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
>
>
> Science says �yes�. A mouse and an elephant with the same
proportionally-sized wound heal in
> quite different times. I think this is because the proportionality of the wound is 3-D, and the
> cells growing to close the width of the cut that needs healing is what takes the time (healing is
> square, elephants are cubic). The equivalent process for regeneration would be the length of the
> limb, which is also based on the number of cells in a straight line (different dimension, still
> proportional) � unless regeneration uses pure/optimsed binary fission, in which
case its
> proportional to ln(x^3), and thus only a small constant is added for larger creatures.
>
> Fantasy says �who cares�. Let�s keep it simple.
Big regen takes up to a week. Little regen
> takes as little as a day. Having the missing body part saves significant time, depending on its
> condition. End of rule. (might need to be re-written in rules English). The GM can make up numbers
> based on the dramatic tension of the plot, and whether they want partially-healed adventurers
> hobbling into combat on peg legs, or fully healed adventurers raring to go - obviously if
it�s a
> pirate scenario, the former is a dramatic necessity. I suggest a minimum of a day, to stop PCs
> chopping off their own fingers for entertainment/garnish and regening them while cooking.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Martin Dickson
> Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 10:25 a.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Michael Woodhams <mdw@free.net.nz> wrote:
> The size increment could be by length, mass, volume or percentage of body mass/length. (Should it
> take twice as long to regenerate a giant's leg compared to a human's?)
>
> Do giants take twice as long to heal normal wounds compared to a human?  If a human and a giant
> (and a halfling to further illustrate) each get a wicked slash the length of their forearm that
> has to heal naturally does the halfling heal faster than the human, and the human faster than
> giant because their arms are shorter? No?  Then why would regeneration have a size variance
> factor?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
FromJacqui Smith
DateTue, 29 Apr 2008 12:41:04 +1200
Ian Wood wrote:
> you are welcome Stephen :-)
> Now I know why it is important to you.
>
> You want a rule change to benefit your character.
> That takes me back to the Gods meetings of the 1980s when rule changes were pushed through for the sole benefit of a GM/God/player's PC.
> <sigh> 
>
> My approach would be to write a special ability for your NPC with respect to this and linked to your Rank10+ Healer skill, rather than to change the rules to suit you. 
> Different strokes for different folks
>   
Actually it's not improper for players to bring up something that is 
relevant to one of their characters, or GMs to bring up something 
related to their games. Few of us, if any, actually sit down with the 
rulebook and actively look for abberations. So, we naturally bring up 
things that come up in  play, either frustrating them as a player, or 
annoying them as a GM. Yes, Stephen plays a Rank 10+ Healer, so 
inevitably he is more like to bring up issues relating to that skill, 
than say, Weaponsmith, simply because he will encounter them more often.

That said, I think there is a problem here, and it's not so much that 
Rank 10 is no different  from  Rank  9, its more that currently the 
amount of work to do is not related to the time, and that preserving the 
lost part is a waste of effort.

I agree with Andrew on this one... can someone put it into rule-ese so 
we can vote and be done with it?

Jacqui


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SubjectRe: [dq] Healer - Regeneration (Off topic response to insult)
FromStephen Martin
DateTue, 29 Apr 2008 12:40:24 +1200 (NZST)
Ian,
What are you reading?
Are you deliberately trying to be insulting?
Do you ascribe everyone with greedy self-serving motivations for all their actions or is it just me?
Do you consider it at all hypocritical to chastise others for working on things that affect their
own characters when that is exactly what you have done in the past?
Perhaps you assume that everyone else seeks changes to advantage themselves because that is your
sole motivation.

I thought I was quite clear in what I said, my motivations, my reasons.

Your interpretation of what I said is wrong.
I would appreciate it if you ceased interpreting my actions and motivations in public as you
obviously have no idea.

--
To everyone else, apologies for cluttering your inbox as this isn't really on topic any more.


Ian Wood wrote:
> you are welcome Stephen :-)
> Now I know why it is important to you.
>
> You want a rule change to benefit your character.
> That takes me back to the Gods meetings of the 1980s when rule changes were pushed through for the
> sole benefit of a GM/God/player's PC.
> <sigh>
>
> My approach would be to write a special ability for your NPC with respect to this and linked to
> your Rank10+ Healer skill, rather than to change the rules to suit you.
> Different strokes for different folks.
>
>
> Ian
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net>
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 April, 2008 10:38:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
>
> Oh no, you've rumbled me, I raised this issue specifically for the purpose of wasting your time.
> If you don't care about the issue, or don't want to discuss it then don't.  Just put the mouse
> down and walk away.  Nobody is forcing you to inhale - it's one of the beauties of an on-line
> discussion, nobody else will even know that you saw the Subject line and hit delete.
>
> For those that do care, I raised this because I play a Rk10+ Healer and on trying to Regenerate
> wounds to other characters I found it unusable.
> It is dis-satisfying to me as a player when my character with extraordinary skill and artifacts
> does not get to use the skill because it is too slow and disruptive to the flow of the game.
> Instead NPCs and other non-standard gm widgets get used to do the job and continue the game.
>
> btw Thanks to all those who have been constructively contributing, I think there is general
> agreement of principals, I'll see if I can phrase it reasonably in rule-speak.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
> Ian Wood wrote:
>> Also, I really wonder on the merits of this discussion. It is a sub skil that kicks in at Rank
>> 9,
>> so few have it. We are arguing that a Rank 10 Healer should regenerate quicker than a Rank 9,
>> and
>> I dont care for the distinction. Then there are the Demons at Rank 15. Most Demons are NPCs and
>> GMs can do as they wish. May be we want guidelines for GMs, but it does not take huge rule
>> discussions for those.
>>
>> At the risk of sounding like Jim, what are the benefits to the game of changing this rule? Rank
>> 10
>> and Rank 15 Healers get to reduce the time taken to regenerate limbs etc. We (hopefully) respect
>> the magical component and the need for simplicity in the rules and specify that regeneration
>> takes
>> some time, regardless of proportion, size or race.
>> I argue for proportion as I cannot see, in game terms, any difference between amputation below
>> the
>> knee or above the knee. You hop, or struggle with a crutch regardless, and same for an arm. A
>> minor element, such as a finger or ear, may be less.
>>
>> My recomendation therefore is to either stop dicussing this rule, or ask someone clever like
>> Errol
>> to propose an amendment, something like:
>> Higher ranks in Healer may reduce the time taken to regenerate a limb. The regeneration takes
>> the
>> same time regardless of race, size and proportion of limb to be regenerated. Minor elements,
>> such
>> as ears and fingers may be regenerated in a much shorter time, but no less than a full day.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz>
>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 April, 2008 12:13:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
>>
>>
>> Science says �yes�. A mouse and an elephant with the same
> proportionally-sized wound heal in
>> quite different times. I think this is because the proportionality of the wound is 3-D, and the
>> cells growing to close the width of the cut that needs healing is what takes the time (healing
>> is
>> square, elephants are cubic). The equivalent process for regeneration would be the length of the
>> limb, which is also based on the number of cells in a straight line (different dimension, still
>> proportional) � unless regeneration uses pure/optimsed binary fission, in which
> case its
>> proportional to ln(x^3), and thus only a small constant is added for larger creatures.
>>
>> Fantasy says �who cares�. Let�s keep it simple.
> Big regen takes up to a week. Little regen
>> takes as little as a day. Having the missing body part saves significant time, depending on its
>> condition. End of rule. (might need to be re-written in rules English). The GM can make up
>> numbers
>> based on the dramatic tension of the plot, and whether they want partially-healed adventurers
>> hobbling into combat on peg legs, or fully healed adventurers raring to go - obviously if
> it�s a
>> pirate scenario, the former is a dramatic necessity. I suggest a minimum of a day, to stop PCs
>> chopping off their own fingers for entertainment/garnish and regening them while cooking.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Martin Dickson
>> Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 10:25 a.m.
>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
>> Subject: Re: [dq] Healer - Regeneration
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Michael Woodhams <mdw@free.net.nz> wrote:
>> The size increment could be by length, mass, volume or percentage of body mass/length. (Should
>> it
>> take twice as long to regenerate a giant's leg compared to a human's?)
>>
>> Do giants take twice as long to heal normal wounds compared to a human?  If a human and a giant
>> (and a halfling to further illustrate) each get a wicked slash the length of their forearm that
>> has to heal naturally does the halfling heal faster than the human, and the human faster than
>> giant because their arms are shorter? No?  Then why would regeneration have a size variance
>> factor?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Martin
>>
>
>
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>


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