SubjectRe: [dq-announce] June Guild Meeting - Theif
FromErrol Cavit
DateFri, 6 Jun 2008 09:03:23 +1200 
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When exactly did it get accepted for playtest? I can remember it being not
accepted for playtest at least once, and being proposed at least twice.
I can't remember if it ended up in playtest, or limbo.
 
If people have been playing it, a couple of paragraphs of evaluation
available before the meeting would be useful.
 
Cheers
Errol

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-announce-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-announce-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of Jonathan Bean
Sent: Wednesday, 4 June 2008 22:13
To: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-announce] June Guild Meeting - This Sunday


I would like to add to the rule section please.

As the play test Thief has been in play test for over 18 months, I would
like to see a vote to move the Thief from out of play test and either accept
or decline it to go into the rules.

Jono




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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=273334720-05062008>When 
exactly did it get accepted for playtest? I can remember it being not accepted 
for playtest at least once, and being proposed at least 
twice.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=273334720-05062008>I 
can't remember if it ended up in playtest, or limbo.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=273334720-05062008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=273334720-05062008>If 
people have been playing it, a couple of paragraphs of evaluation available 
before the meeting would be useful.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=273334720-05062008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=273334720-05062008>Cheers</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=273334720-05062008>Errol</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
  dq-announce-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-announce-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On 
  Behalf Of</B> Jonathan Bean<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 4 June 2008 
  22:13<BR><B>To:</B> dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: 
  [dq-announce] June Guild Meeting - This Sunday<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>I would 
  like to add to the rule section please.<BR><BR>As the play test Thief has been 
  in play test for over 18 months, I would like to see a vote to move the Thief 
  from out of play test and either accept or decline it to go into the 
  rules.<BR><BR>Jono<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Thief 2.03
FromAndrew Withy
DateFri, 6 Jun 2008 13:04:28 +1200
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I thought I'd have an attempt to get some discussion of Thief going, before
we have another vote on it (the last vote decided that it not be put into
general playtest).

 

One feature of Thief  v2.05 is that it may limit low ranked thieves. It
seems to me that as a low-ranked thief you can do very little, and do it
badly, while a high-ranked thief can do a lot more, and well. The current
Thief skill gives a range of subskills at Rank 0, and you get better over
time. With Thief v2.05, a Thief is likely not to have the required subskill
unless they are high-ranked. It reduces not so much the effectiveness of
low-ranked thieves, as the point for being a low-ranked thief at all. If I
had a character with thief, I would rank it to 4-5 straight away, as I
believe it is no longer useful at low ranks, being too narrow.

 

This differs from Troubadour, Courtier, or even Spy, as they are skills with
more of a role-playing focus. If you are a courtier, you can do courtier
stuff, and your subskills just help out in details. In Thief, you simply
can't pick locks or pockets, etc unless you have that subskill. I believe
that Thief is much more of a a technical or numeric skill than Troubadour,
Courtier, and it is a mistake to change it to the current structure.

 

I also have minor misgivings about a few of the subskills, but if they were
changed, I'd still not like Thief v2.05, and if my concern about Thief v2.05
being too narrow, I'd vote for it, even without changing any subskills.

 

Opinions? Arguments against my position? Other doubts or experiences with
the proposed skill? There were several GMs who had playtested it and
rejected it last time, perhaps they could let us know why.

 

 

Andrew

 

  _____  

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Jonathan Bean
Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2008 9:30 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Thief 2.03

 

Hi all,

http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient

I would like to see Thief 2.03 move from playtest into the next issue of the
rules. 

After using and seeing Thief 2.03 in play test for over a year, I see very
little wrong with it. I believe that Thief 2.03 is a far better fit with the
current updated Spy skill than the current version. 

I wish to put the current playtest version of Thief 2.03 to a vote to accept
or decline for general play and the next issue of the rules.

Jono


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I thought I&#8217;d have an attempt =
to get
some discussion of Thief going, before we have another vote on it (the =
last
vote decided that it not be put into general =
playtest).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One feature of Thief &nbsp;v2.05 is =
that it may
limit low ranked thieves. It seems to me that as a low-ranked thief you =
can do
very little, and do it badly, while a high-ranked thief can do a lot =
more, and
well. The current Thief skill gives a range of subskills at Rank 0, and =
you get
better over time. With Thief v2.05, a Thief is likely not to have the =
required
subskill unless they are high-ranked. It reduces not so much the =
effectiveness
of low-ranked thieves, as the point for being a low-ranked thief at all. =
If I
had a character with thief, I would rank it to 4-5 straight away, as I =
believe it
is no longer useful at low ranks, being too =
narrow.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This differs from Troubadour, =
Courtier, or
even Spy, as they are skills with more of a role-playing focus. If you =
are a
courtier, you can do courtier stuff, and your subskills just help out in
details. In Thief, you simply can&#8217;t pick locks or pockets, etc =
unless you
have that subskill. I believe that Thief is much more of a a technical =
or
numeric skill than Troubadour, Courtier, and it is a mistake to change =
it to
the current structure.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I also have minor misgivings about =
a few
of the subskills, but if they were changed, I&#8217;d still not like =
Thief
v2.05, and if my concern about Thief v2.05 being too narrow, I&#8217;d =
vote for
it, even without changing any subskills.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Opinions? Arguments against my =
position?
Other doubts or experiences with the proposed skill? There were several =
GMs who
had playtested it and rejected it last time, perhaps they could let us =
know why.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jonathan Bean<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 14 May =
2008 9:30
p.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [dq] Thief =
2.03</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<br>
<br>
<a =
href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient">htt=
p://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient</a><br>
<br>
I would like to see Thief 2.03 move from playtest into the next issue of =
the
rules. <br>
<br>
After using and seeing <font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'>Thief</span></font>
2.03 in play test for over a year, I see very little wrong with it. I =
believe
that <font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'>Thief</span></font> =
2.03 is a
far better fit with the current updated Spy skill than the current =
version. <br>
<br>
I wish to put the current playtest version of <font color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'>Thief</span></font> 2.03 to a vote to accept or =
decline for
general play and the next issue of the rules.<br>
<br>
Jono<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Theif 2.03
FromAndrew Withy
DateFri, 6 Jun 2008 13:07:37 +1200
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Technical point - the Thief v2.03 is not "the current playtest version". In
the last vote, the GMs decided not to put it into general playtest.

 

What has changed since then, apart from Jono having playtested it?

 

Andrew

  _____  

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Jonathan Bean
Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2008 9:30 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Theif 2.03

 

Hi all,

http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient

I would like to see Thief 2.03 move from playtest into the next issue of the
rules. 

After using and seeing Theif 2.03 in play test for over a year, I see very
little wrong with it. I believe that Theif 2.03 is a far better fit with the
current updated Spy skill than the current version. 

I wish to put the current playtest version of Theif 2.03 to a vote to accept
or decline for general play and the next issue of the rules.

Jono


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Technical point &#8211; the Thief =
v2.03 is
not &#8220;the current playtest version&#8221;. In the last vote, the =
GMs
decided not to put it into general =
playtest.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What has changed since then, apart =
from
Jono having playtested it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jonathan Bean<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 14 May =
2008 9:30
p.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [dq] Theif =
2.03</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<br>
<br>
<a =
href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient">htt=
p://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient</a><br>
<br>
I would like to see Thief 2.03 move from playtest into the next issue of =
the
rules. <br>
<br>
After using and seeing Theif 2.03 in play test for over a year, I see =
very
little wrong with it. I believe that Theif 2.03 is a far better fit with =
the
current updated Spy skill than the current version. <br>
<br>
I wish to put the current playtest version of Theif 2.03 to a vote to =
accept or
decline for general play and the next issue of the rules.<br>
<br>
Jono<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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Subject[dq] Thief
FromErrol Cavit
DateFri, 6 Jun 2008 13:44:54 +1200 
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this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Forwarded from Mandos

-----Original Message-----
From: Mitchinson, Mandos, ihug-NZ
[mailto:Mandos.Mitchinson@vodafone.com] 
Sent: Friday, 6 June 2008 10:51
To: Errol Cavit
Subject: Thief


I playtested the skill for some time and while there were minor
questions I think most of them got fixed. 

My impressions (as memory recalls) the skill was much easier to have
some kind of use on adventure. You could do things with the rest of the
party and still use the skill. 

The other thing I note is any GM using the current Thief, ignores the
skill entirely and simply judges you based on rank, so the old skill is
pretty much ignored unless you want to pick a lock. 

Either way, I gave up playing my thief some time ago so I have no real
interest either way. I converted her to an assassin as the Thief skill
was unplayable as a major character trait. 

Mandos
/s

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Forwarded from Mandos</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Mitchinson, Mandos, ihug-NZ</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>[<A HREF="mailto:Mandos.Mitchinson@vodafone.com">mailto:Mandos.Mitchinson@vodafone.com</A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Friday, 6 June 2008 10:51</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Errol Cavit</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Thief</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I playtested the skill for some time and while there were minor</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>questions I think most of them got fixed. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>My impressions (as memory recalls) the skill was much easier to have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>some kind of use on adventure. You could do things with the rest of the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>party and still use the skill. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>The other thing I note is any GM using the current Thief, ignores the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>skill entirely and simply judges you based on rank, so the old skill is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>pretty much ignored unless you want to pick a lock. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Either way, I gave up playing my thief some time ago so I have no real</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>interest either way. I converted her to an assassin as the Thief skill</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>was unplayable as a major character trait. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Mandos</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>/s</FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Theif 2.03
FromJonathan Bean
DateFri, 6 Jun 2008 16:05:44 +1200
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Hi Andrew,

I could simple be wrong - it does happen from time to time.
I understood that the new Thief was in play test, again I could be wrong.
I have no record either way, but only a distent memory of voting it into
play test.
Again I could be simply wrong.

Jono


2008/6/6 Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz>:

>  Technical point =96 the Thief v2.03 is not "the current playtest version=
".
> In the last vote, the GMs decided not to put it into general playtest.
>
>
>
> What has changed since then, apart from Jono having playtested it?
>
>
>
> Andrew
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O=
f
> *Jonathan Bean
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 14 May 2008 9:30 p.m.
> *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> *Subject:* [dq] Theif 2.03
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient
>
> I would like to see Thief 2.03 move from playtest into the next issue of
> the rules.
>
> After using and seeing Theif 2.03 in play test for over a year, I see ver=
y
> little wrong with it. I believe that Theif 2.03 is a far better fit with =
the
> current updated Spy skill than the current version.
>
> I wish to put the current playtest version of Theif 2.03 to a vote to
> accept or decline for general play and the next issue of the rules.
>
> Jono
>



--=20
Kind regards,

Jonathan Bean
H: +64 9 828 2959
M: +64 21 917 173
G: jonobean@gmail.com

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Hi Andrew,<br><br>I could simple be wrong - it does happen from time to tim=
e.<br>I understood that the new Thief was in play test, again I could be wr=
ong.<br>I have no record either way, but only a distent memory of voting it=
 into play test.<br>
Again I could be simply wrong.<br><br>Jono<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote">2008/6/6 Andrew Withy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">awithy=
@ihug.co.nz</a>&gt;:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-l=
eft: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left:=
 1ex;">











<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" lang=3D"EN-US">

<div>

<p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Technical point =96 the Thief v2.0=
3 is
not "the current playtest version". In the last vote, the GMs
decided not to put it into general playtest.</span></font></p>

<p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">What has changed since then, apart=
 from
Jono having playtested it?</span></font></p>

<p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Andrew</span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Times New=
 Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">

<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">

</span></font></div>

<p><b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font=
-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face=3D"T=
ahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.o=
rg.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank=
">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">On Behal=
f Of </span></b>Jonathan Bean<br>

<b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 14 May 20=
08 9:30
p.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@d=
q.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [dq] Theif 2.03</=
span></font></p>

</div>

<p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt=
;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Hi all,<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varien=
t</a><br>
<br>
I would like to see Thief 2.03 move from playtest into the next issue of th=
e
rules. <br>
<br>
After using and seeing Theif 2.03 in play test for over a year, I see very
little wrong with it. I believe that Theif 2.03 is a far better fit with th=
e
current updated Spy skill than the current version. <br>
<br>
I wish to put the current playtest version of Theif 2.03 to a vote to accep=
t or
decline for general play and the next issue of the rules.<br>
<br>
Jono</span></font></p>

</div>

</div>


</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Kind regards,<br><br>Jo=
nathan Bean<br>H: +64 9 828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mail=
to:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Thief 2.03
FromJonathan Bean
DateFri, 6 Jun 2008 16:16:53 +1200
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Andrew these are all good points, and I agree with you on most of them.

I don't think that the new Theif is 100% perfict.
I do think that the Theif 2.03 / 2.05 is better than the current Theif.
I feel that it fits in better with the other skills like; Troubadour,
Courtier, and Spy.
Its more interesting and fun for players and GMs.
In general I like it.

Even with the clear problems I see with it, I would encourage people to vote
it into full play ASAP as I feel it is volumes better than the old Theif.

Jono

2008/6/6 Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz>:

>  I thought I'd have an attempt to get some discussion of Thief going,
> before we have another vote on it (the last vote decided that it not be put
> into general playtest).
>
>
>
> One feature of Thief  v2.05 is that it may limit low ranked thieves. It
> seems to me that as a low-ranked thief you can do very little, and do it
> badly, while a high-ranked thief can do a lot more, and well. The current
> Thief skill gives a range of subskills at Rank 0, and you get better over
> time. With Thief v2.05, a Thief is likely not to have the required subskill
> unless they are high-ranked. It reduces not so much the effectiveness of
> low-ranked thieves, as the point for being a low-ranked thief at all. If I
> had a character with thief, I would rank it to 4-5 straight away, as I
> believe it is no longer useful at low ranks, being too narrow.
>
>
>
> This differs from Troubadour, Courtier, or even Spy, as they are skills
> with more of a role-playing focus. If you are a courtier, you can do
> courtier stuff, and your subskills just help out in details. In Thief, you
> simply can't pick locks or pockets, etc unless you have that subskill. I
> believe that Thief is much more of a a technical or numeric skill than
> Troubadour, Courtier, and it is a mistake to change it to the current
> structure.
>
>
>
> I also have minor misgivings about a few of the subskills, but if they were
> changed, I'd still not like Thief v2.05, and if my concern about Thief v2.05
> being too narrow, I'd vote for it, even without changing any subskills.
>
>
>
> Opinions? Arguments against my position? Other doubts or experiences with
> the proposed skill? There were several GMs who had playtested it and
> rejected it last time, perhaps they could let us know why.
>
>
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf Of
> *Jonathan Bean
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 14 May 2008 9:30 p.m.
> *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> *Subject:* [dq] Thief 2.03
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient
>
> I would like to see Thief 2.03 move from playtest into the next issue of
> the rules.
>
> After using and seeing Thief 2.03 in play test for over a year, I see very
> little wrong with it. I believe that Thief 2.03 is a far better fit with
> the current updated Spy skill than the current version.
>
> I wish to put the current playtest version of Thief 2.03 to a vote to
> accept or decline for general play and the next issue of the rules.
>
> Jono
>



-- 
Kind regards,

Jonathan Bean
H: +64 9 828 2959
M: +64 21 917 173
G: jonobean@gmail.com

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<br>Andrew these are all good points, and I agree with you on most of them.<br><br>I don&#39;t think that the new Theif is 100% perfict.<br>I do think that the Theif 2.03 / 2.05 is better than the current Theif. <br>I feel that it fits in better with the other skills like; T<font style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">roubadour, Courtier, and Spy</span></font><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">.</span><br>
Its more interesting and fun for players and GMs.<br>In general I like it.<br><br>Even with the clear problems I see with it, I would encourage people to vote it into full play ASAP as I feel it is volumes better than the old Theif.<br>
<br>Jono<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/6/6 Andrew Withy &lt;<a href="mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">awithy@ihug.co.nz</a>&gt;:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">











<div link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US">

<div>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I thought I'd have an attempt to get
some discussion of Thief going, before we have another vote on it (the last
vote decided that it not be put into general playtest).</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">One feature of Thief &nbsp;v2.05 is that it may
limit low ranked thieves. It seems to me that as a low-ranked thief you can do
very little, and do it badly, while a high-ranked thief can do a lot more, and
well. The current Thief skill gives a range of subskills at Rank 0, and you get
better over time. With Thief v2.05, a Thief is likely not to have the required
subskill unless they are high-ranked. It reduces not so much the effectiveness
of low-ranked thieves, as the point for being a low-ranked thief at all. If I
had a character with thief, I would rank it to 4-5 straight away, as I believe it
is no longer useful at low ranks, being too narrow.</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">This differs from Troubadour, Courtier, or
even Spy, as they are skills with more of a role-playing focus. If you are a
courtier, you can do courtier stuff, and your subskills just help out in
details. In Thief, you simply can't pick locks or pockets, etc unless you
have that subskill. I believe that Thief is much more of a a technical or
numeric skill than Troubadour, Courtier, and it is a mistake to change it to
the current structure.</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I also have minor misgivings about a few
of the subskills, but if they were changed, I'd still not like Thief
v2.05, and if my concern about Thief v2.05 being too narrow, I'd vote for
it, even without changing any subskills.</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Opinions? Arguments against my position?
Other doubts or experiences with the proposed skill? There were several GMs who
had playtested it and rejected it last time, perhaps they could let us know why.</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Andrew</span></font></p>

<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">

<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">

</span></font></div>

<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a href="mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target="_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target="_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jonathan Bean<br>

<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 14 May 2008 9:30
p.m.<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target="_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [dq] Thief 2.03</span></font></p>

</div>

<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi all,<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient" target="_blank">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Thief_Varient</a><br>
<br>
I would like to see Thief 2.03 move from playtest into the next issue of the
rules. <br>
<br>
After using and seeing <font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;">Thief</span></font>
2.03 in play test for over a year, I see very little wrong with it. I believe
that <font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;">Thief</span></font> 2.03 is a
far better fit with the current updated Spy skill than the current version. <br>
<br>
I wish to put the current playtest version of <font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;">Thief</span></font> 2.03 to a vote to accept or decline for
general play and the next issue of the rules.<br>
<br>
Jono</span></font></p>

</div>

</div>


</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Kind regards,<br><br>Jonathan Bean<br>H: +64 9 828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href="mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>

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