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The Origins of the Gods and Guild and the creation of a world.
=20
Martin Dickson wrote: "1st had the action point combat system which =
we've never used as far as I know"
We played the First Edition rules in 1981 or so with Robert Leyland, =
before the multi-GM universe began (probably only myself and Avette is =
still playing from that original group) The Edition 1 Action points =
were very painful to keep track of (especially when the computer program =
tracking them went wrong, combats were endless).=20
=20
Robert went off overseas and never came back. Eventually we raided his =
father's place for the DQ maps and materials. I carried on the GMing (we =
had moved to the version 2 rules in 1982 or 1983, a great improvement). =
There were also two other groups playing or who had started playing. One =
converted their D&D characters to DQ characters (The Jackson family; =
Gary & Brent&Derek&Kyn). The other group were the =
University/Ex-university club people, Mike Young, Kevin Meekan, Peter =
Summinovith? etc. The games/players crossed over and the multi-GM =
universe was born. This was a deliberate move to multiple GMs in the =
same universe. A number of GMs met regularly to guide this - the start =
of the Gods meetings. Initial expansion maps were drawn up, I wrote up =
the NPC guild council characters - many who later turned bad as aids to =
plots or to clean out the old guard.
=20
Q: I notice that the Guild's rulebook is based on first and second =
edition DragonQuest with numerous revisions. Could you explain the =
choice of game system and edition, especially in reference to third =
edition DragonQuest. Also, what are the major rules changes have you =
made and how have you gone about making (and enforcing) these changes?
Others have answered this already - but a few additional comments are:
Why DQ?
I think we started out trying a new system for novelty (over D&D), and =
to me the lack of alignments, the lack of strong religions and Gods, and =
the multiple magic colleges were attractive. (I also like percentile =
dice, but it takes all kinds) Then of course, when material builds up, =
the world is fleshed out and the campaign was successful, it requires a =
great effort to change your game system. (Mind you, there were/are many =
complaints of rules changes as there were many early on). In terms of =
enforcing rules, many GMs play slight variants, often announced at the =
beginning of an adventure, but there is a general consensus that =
consistency as a character moves GM's is good. People have certainly =
discovered that a spell they have ranked high is played differently by a =
different GM, thus making it a whole less useful, so experience backs up =
the general desire for consistency.
=20
Why Edition 2?
As others have said, Edition 3 when backwards and removed anything =
disapproved on by the American Moral Majority. Edition 2 was a vast =
improvement on Edition 2, so that was the one we used.
=20
Q: How was the Guild formed? Who have been the main drivers of the game =
and the organisation?
The Guild?
The Guild was/is a deliberate attempt to set up a mechanism for a long =
running campaign. D&D Campaigns we had seen often deteriorated into =
exercises in killing each other inventively (Ping was an expert in =
this;) (I remember an entire party (bar one) dying as they came through =
a portal one by one and were picked off by the first one through. We =
proposed that the Guild was all seeing and could not be fooled. They =
enforced the rules that players should not kill or harm each other, or =
steal from each other, and would not get away with it. Causing a =
permanent death would result in the permanent death of the player who =
caused another player to die, for example.
If you add this to the variety of inventive and interesting people who =
role play, then I think this explains the longevity to a large extent. =
(No divisive alignments as there are in D&D also help). (I was also keen =
to crack down on divisive religions, which pitted player against player, =
backed up with powerful gods, which resulted in the crushing of some new =
religions and some ructions, including a new player star over Seagate). =
Religions have managed to creep in, but in a less divisive way.
The main drivers have of course changed over the years as the torch has =
been handed on. I think the initial group (mentioned above) handed on to =
Bryan Holden, and then on again.
=20
Q: A campaign that has been running for this long must have seen some =
major changes to the gameworld and some extremely memorable moments. =
Could you share some of these events?
I did run a year long adventure to the end of the world, and the players =
sailed off the edge of the world twice. These days the work seems to be =
round! Pity :-)
=20
=20
=20
Jeff
=20
________________________________
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of =
Martin Dickson
Sent: Tuesday, 26 August 2008 10:08 AM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Interview questions for RPG Review
=20
Clare and Helen have covered a lot of this, so attempting some blanker =
bits...
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Lev Lafayette =
<lev_lafayette@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
=09
Q: I notice that the Guild's rulebook is based on first and second =
edition DragonQuest with numerous revisions. Could you explain the =
choice of game system and edition, especially in reference to third =
edition DragonQuest. Also, what are the major rules changes have you =
made and how have you gone about making (and enforcing) these changes?
Definitely based on the 2nd edition (1st had the action point combat =
system which we've never used as far as I know). There were only a =
handful of rule books around when I first started playing in 1985 and =
many players had no rules, or just a photocopy of their own college. We =
approached TSR to enquire whether the licence to DQ might be available, =
and while they declined, they were kind enough to send us a printout of =
the material they had on file for the never published Arcane Wisdom =
expansion, with the Rune, Lesser Summoning, and Shaper colleges.
In 1989 TSR published 3rd edition, making few changes, none of them =
really positive. The experience multiples for non-humans were =
substantially increased, and while they introduced colleges from Arcane =
Wisdom, they dropped the colleges of Greater Summoning and Black Magics, =
and recommended that Necromancy only be available to NPCs. The college =
removals appear to have been made as part of a general policy (at the =
time) to get demons and evil-ness out of TSRs games (this was at the =
time they were replacing "devil" and "demon" in Dungeons & Dragons with =
"baatezu" and "tanar'ri" in order to placate critics, mostly =
fundamentalist Christians).
By the time 3rd edition came out we had already stopped using Greater =
Summoning (as it proved unplayable), changed Black Magics into =
Witchcraft, significantly revised Necromancy to add... well =
Necromancy... something that was rather lacking in the original version, =
and adopted the Rune college and Shapers-lite (in the form of Binders), =
so there really wasn't anything much we wanted from 3rd edition and its =
changes were largely incompatible with what we had already decided.
=20
=09
Q: You've made some extensive expansions to the Frontiers of Alusia map =
to the extent that it is now a fully developed gameworld, with a map =
vaguely related to Earth (although I note that Australia doesn't exist =
anymore and Aotearoa has moved to off the coast of "Africa"!) but also =
with some input from other game worlds (e.g., the Lunar Republic, with =
Dragonewts, a Moon Goddess and Glowline is reminiscent of the relevant =
part of Glorantha). Tell you tell us how the world was put together, how =
long it took and who were the main contributors?
To quote Tom Lehrer: "Plagiarize, Let no one else's work evade your =
eyes... Only be sure always to call it please 'research'". :-)
While the Alusia we play on is a product of the guild campaign, many =
parts of it have been integrated in from other game systems, with GMs =
using commercial RPG materials from TSR, Chaosium, and others. The first =
of these was probably the Thieves' World Sanctuary Adventure Pack that =
Chaosium published in 1981; the much reviled city of Sanctuary sits some =
300 miles north of the Guild's home in Seagate and has been the setting =
for many adventures. The world of Glorantha is the source of the Lunar =
Empire in the east, and the Dark Sun world of Arthas is the basis of the =
deserts in the northern part of the uttermost west. Once you look off =
Alusia, to other "planes", GMs have run games based in Greyhawk, =
Faer=FBn, the Cthulhu Mythos, Torg... you name it... as well as a host =
of areas and worlds of their own devising.
Alusia has been an ongoing project since the early days of the campaign, =
and a truly collaborative effort. Hand-drawn paper maps were made and =
circulated amongst the GMs and more recently the wiki has provided a =
very useful means for storing and communicating the pieces. Our Alusia =
is vaguely Earth-ish (in part so that we can use real world information =
on climate, sunrise, etc) but some odd changes have happened; Pasifika =
sits in the Atlantic ocean analogue, and Australia is missing (although =
the little-explored giant island of Delph with its dangerous reptiles =
could perhaps stand in for it). :-)
Cheers,
Martin
=20
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The Origins of the Gods and Guild =
and the
creation of a world.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Martin Dickson wrote: =
“</span></font>1st
had the action point combat system which we've never used as far as I =
know”<font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We played the First Edition rules =
in 1981
or so with Robert Leyland, before the multi-GM universe began (probably =
only
myself and Avette is still playing from that original group) =A0The =
Edition 1
Action points were very painful to keep track of (especially when the =
computer
program tracking them went wrong, combats were endless). =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Robert went off overseas and never =
came
back. Eventually we raided his father’s place for the DQ maps and
materials. I carried on the GMing (we had moved to the version 2 rules =
in 1982
or 1983, a great improvement). There were also two other groups playing =
or who
had started playing. One converted their D&D characters to DQ =
characters
(The Jackson family; Gary & Brent&Derek&Kyn). The other =
group were
the University/Ex-university club people, Mike Young, Kevin Meekan, =
Peter
Summinovith? etc. The games/players crossed over and the multi-GM =
universe was
born. This was a deliberate move to multiple GMs in the same universe. A =
number
of GMs met regularly to guide this – the start of the Gods =
meetings. Initial
expansion maps were drawn up, I wrote up the NPC guild council =
characters –
many who later turned bad as aids to plots or to clean out the old =
guard.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Q: I notice that the Guild's rulebook is =
based on
first and second edition DragonQuest with numerous revisions. Could you =
explain
the choice of game system and edition, especially in reference to third =
edition
DragonQuest. Also, what are the major rules changes have you made and =
how have
you gone about making (and enforcing) these =
changes?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Others have answered this already =
–
but a few additional comments are:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Why =
DQ?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think we started out trying a new =
system
for novelty (over D&D), and to me the lack of alignments, the lack =
of
strong religions and Gods, and the multiple magic colleges were =
attractive. (I
also like percentile dice, but it takes all kinds)=A0 Then of course, =
when
material builds up, the world is fleshed out and the campaign was =
successful,
it requires a great effort to change your game system. (Mind you, there
were/are many complaints of rules changes as there were many early on). =
=A0In
terms of enforcing rules, many GMs play slight variants, often announced =
at the
beginning of an adventure, but there is a general consensus that =
consistency as
a character moves GM’s is good. People have certainly discovered =
that a
spell they have ranked high is played differently by a different GM, =
thus
making it a whole less useful, so experience backs up the general desire =
for
consistency.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Why Edition =
2?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As others have said, Edition 3 when
backwards and removed anything disapproved on by the American Moral =
Majority.
Edition 2 was a vast improvement on Edition 2, so that was the one we =
used.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Q: How was the Guild formed? Who have been =
the main
drivers of the game and the organisation?</span></font><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The =
Guild?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The Guild was/is a deliberate =
attempt to
set up a mechanism for a long running campaign. D&D Campaigns we had =
seen
often deteriorated into exercises in killing each other inventively =
(Ping was
an expert in this;) (I remember an entire party (bar one) dying as they =
came
through a portal one by one and were picked off by the first one =
through. We
proposed that the Guild was all seeing and could not be fooled. They =
enforced
the rules that players should not kill or harm each other, or steal from =
each
other, and would not get away with it. Causing a permanent death would =
result
in the permanent death of the player who caused another player to die, =
for
example.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If you add this to the variety of
inventive and interesting people who role play, then I think this =
explains the
longevity to a large extent. (No divisive alignments as there are in =
D&D
also help). (I was also keen to crack down on divisive religions, which =
pitted
player against player, backed up with powerful gods, which resulted in =
the
crushing of some new religions and some ructions, including a new player =
star
over Seagate). Religions have managed to creep in, but in a less =
divisive way.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The main drivers have of course =
changed over
the years as the torch has been handed on. I think the initial group =
(mentioned
above) handed on to <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Bryan =
Holden</st1:PersonName>,
and then on again.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Q: A campaign that has been running for this =
long
must have seen some major changes to the gameworld and some extremely =
memorable
moments. Could you share some of these events?</span></font><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I did run a year long adventure to =
the end
of the world, and the players sailed off the edge of the world twice. =
These
days the work seems to be round! Pity </span></font><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DWingdings><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></fon=
t><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:
5.0pt;margin-left:0cm'><font size=3D2 color=3Dgray face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:gray'>Jeff</span></font=
><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Martin Dickson<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 26 August =
2008
10:08 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] =
Interview
questions for RPG Review</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Clare and Helen have covered a lot of this, so attempting some =
blanker
bits...<br>
<br>
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Lev Lafayette <<a
href=3D"mailto:lev_lafayette@yahoo.com.au">lev_lafayette@yahoo.com.au</a>=
>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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Q: I notice that the Guild's rulebook is based on first and second =
edition
DragonQuest with numerous revisions. Could you explain the choice of =
game
system and edition, especially in reference to third edition =
DragonQuest. Also,
what are the major rules changes have you made and how have you gone =
about
making (and enforcing) these changes?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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Definitely based on the 2nd edition (1st had the action point combat =
system
which we've never used as far as I know). There were only a handful of =
rule
books around when I first started playing in 1985 and many players had =
no
rules, or just a photocopy of their own college. We approached TSR to =
enquire
whether the licence to DQ might be available, and while they declined, =
they
were kind enough to send us a printout of the material they had on file =
for the
never published Arcane Wisdom expansion, with the Rune, Lesser =
Summoning, and
Shaper colleges.<br>
<br>
In 1989 TSR published 3rd edition, making few changes, none of them =
really
positive. The experience multiples for non-humans were substantially =
increased,
and while they introduced colleges from Arcane Wisdom, they dropped the
colleges of Greater Summoning and Black Magics, and recommended that =
Necromancy
only be available to NPCs. The college removals appear to have =
been made
as part of a general policy (at the time) to get demons and evil-ness =
out of
TSRs games (this was at the time they were replacing "devil" =
and
"demon" in Dungeons & Dragons with =
"baatezu" and
"tanar'ri" in order to placate critics, mostly fundamentalist
Christians).<br>
<br>
By the time 3rd edition came out we had already stopped using Greater =
Summoning
(as it proved unplayable), changed Black Magics into Witchcraft, =
significantly
revised Necromancy to <u>add</u>... well <i><span =
style=3D'font-style:italic'>Necromancy</span></i>...
something that was rather lacking in the original version, and adopted =
the Rune
college and Shapers-lite (in the form of Binders), so there really =
wasn't
anything much we wanted from 3rd edition and its changes were largely
incompatible with what we had already =
decided.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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Q: You've made some extensive expansions to the Frontiers of Alusia map =
to the
extent that it is now a fully developed gameworld, with a map vaguely =
related
to Earth (although I note that Australia doesn't exist anymore and =
Aotearoa has
moved to off the coast of "Africa"!) but also with some input =
from other
game worlds (e.g., the Lunar Republic, with Dragonewts, a Moon Goddess =
and
Glowline is reminiscent of the relevant part of Glorantha). Tell you =
tell us
how the world was put together, how long it took and who were the main
contributors?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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To quote Tom Lehrer: "Plagiarize, Let no one else's work evade your
eyes... Only be sure always to call it please 'research'". :-)<br>
<br>
While the Alusia we play on is a product of the guild campaign, many =
parts of
it have been integrated in from other game systems, with GMs using =
commercial
RPG materials from TSR, Chaosium, and others. The first of these was =
probably
the Thieves' World Sanctuary Adventure Pack that Chaosium published =
in
1981; the much reviled city of <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City =
w:st=3D"on">Sanctuary</st1:City></st1:place>
sits some 300 miles north of the Guild's home in Seagate and has been =
the
setting for many adventures. The world of Glorantha is the source of the =
Lunar
Empire in the east, and the Dark Sun world of Arthas is the basis of the
deserts in the northern part of the uttermost west. Once you look off =
Alusia, to
other "planes", GMs have run games based in Greyhawk, =
Faer=FBn, the
Cthulhu Mythos, Torg... you name it... as well as a host of areas and =
worlds of
their own devising.<br>
<br>
Alusia has been an ongoing project since the early days of the campaign, =
and a
truly collaborative effort. Hand-drawn paper maps were made and =
circulated
amongst the GMs and more recently the wiki has provided a very useful =
means for
storing and communicating the pieces. Our Alusia is vaguely =
Earth-ish (in
part so that we can use real world information on climate, sunrise, etc) =
but
some odd changes have happened; Pasifika sits in the Atlantic ocean =
analogue,
and <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">Australia</st1:country-region> is =
missing
(although the little-explored giant <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">island</st1:PlaceType>
of <st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Delph</st1:PlaceName></st1:place> with =
its
dangerous reptiles could perhaps stand in for it). :-)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Martin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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