| Subject | Re: [dq] Languages of Ruska and Hindia |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:53:54 +1200 |
--0016364edd6ea36d2304705715f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > ...but am not convinced by the Five-Sisters Courtly link to Elvish Given the historical (in-game) association of Drow and the Five Sisters geographically, there could be a Dravidic link rather than an Elvish one. --0016364edd6ea36d2304705715f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Andrew Withy <sp= an dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">awithy@ihug.co.nz</= a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-l= eft: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left:= 1ex;"> ...but am not convinced by the Five-Sisters Courtly link to Elvish</blockqu= ote><div><br>Given the historical (in-game) association of Drow and the Fiv= e Sisters geographically, there could be a Dravidic link rather than an Elv= ish one.<br> </div></div><br> --0016364edd6ea36d2304705715f2-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Languages of Ruska and Hindia |
|---|---|
| From | Stephen Martin |
| Date | Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:45:50 +1200 (NZST) |
Andrew Withy wrote: ... > nor the Ruskan link to Dwarven. I'm sure that we could come up with an > explanation for (or against) any number of racial associations for either of > these languages, and my feeling is that they need not be part of a group > (several human languages aren't). I thought Ruskan climate and culture fitted well with Dwarves and can easily see Dwarven clans based in Ruska. That's why I picked it for them. As I understand the Languages structure, the groups represent the origin of the language, I think most/all languages should have groups, whether they are existing groups or we create new groups. > I agree with you that Hindian should be > Dravidic, for two reasons: (a) Dravidic is an Indian language/culture; (b) > the background to the adventure I'm currently running supports the theory > that there was a strong influence of drow in Hindia, at a critical time in > the development of its civilisation (unless there is already a Hindi > background developed). Your current adventure is why I picked Dravidic for Hindian. And the dark/Drow association with the 'Dark Continents' Africa & India. Cheers, Stephen. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Languages of Five Sisters |
|---|---|
| From | Stephen Martin |
| Date | Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:52:47 +1200 (NZST) |
Changing topic slightly.. Why are there Courtly and Trader variants of the Five-Sisters language? Could we be better served by simplifying it to one language, Five-Sisters, that goes to rank 10 but only the courtly types have above Rk 8. And the traders also speak a dialect (or heavily accented variation) of Common (the common trading language). Cheers, Stephen. Martin Dickson wrote: > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > >> ...but am not convinced by the Five-Sisters Courtly link to Elvish > > > Given the historical (in-game) association of Drow and the Five Sisters > geographically, there could be a Dravidic link rather than an Elvish one. > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Languages of Five Sisters |
|---|---|
| From | Michael Parkinson |
| Date | Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:15:11 +1200 |
Courtly & trader was a really, really old second-hand interpretation of what a single how the Five sisters were being played many years ago. Please do correct/redact/update it. Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858) Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian ========================= -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stephen Martin Sent: Wednesday, 5 August 2009 9:53 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Languages of Five Sisters Changing topic slightly.. Why are there Courtly and Trader variants of the Five-Sisters language? Could we be better served by simplifying it to one language, Five-Sisters, that goes to rank 10 but only the courtly types have above Rk 8. And the traders also speak a dialect (or heavily accented variation) of Common (the common trading language). Cheers, Stephen. Martin Dickson wrote: > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > >> ...but am not convinced by the Five-Sisters Courtly link to Elvish > > > Given the historical (in-game) association of Drow and the Five Sisters > geographically, there could be a Dravidic link rather than an Elvish one. > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | [dq] Languages: Alman, Brett, Kravonian, .. |
|---|---|
| From | Stephen Martin |
| Date | Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:55:43 +1200 (NZST) |
Continuing the Language Theme... Alman - Language of Pre-Destinian natives in Destiny?? Brett - I can't find any reference to where/when this is used. Kravonia is mentioned wrt Domani but not much anywhere else. Does it still exist? Do we really need Kravonian and Old-Kravonian? Sanddweller - Is this used anywhere? Is it meant to be Arabiq? Khuzdul - is this synonymous with Dwarven? A Dialect of Dwarven? Ancient Dwarven? Can we move the Languages only used on other planes from the rules to the Wiki page about those Planes? I'm mainly referring to the Purple languages here. Cheers, Stephen. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Languages: Alman, Brett, Kravonian, .. |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:08:25 +1200 |
--0016364ed58470920104705b7acd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: > Continuing the Language Theme... > > Brett - I can't find any reference to where/when this is used. Bretonnia? > Kravonia is mentioned wrt Domani but not much anywhere else. Does it still > exist? Do we really need Kravonian and Old-Kravonian? I'd got the impression from somewhere that Old-Kravonian turned into other things and that there was effectively no modern Kravonian. (Or that technically there was only Kravonian, now an old and almost dead language...) > Khuzdul - is this synonymous with Dwarven? A Dialect of Dwarven? Ancient > Dwarven? Hmmm.... Khuzdul is (RL) the name of "dwarvish" in Tolkien. --0016364ed58470920104705b7acd Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Stephen Martin <= span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@aklnz.n= et</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"bord= er-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-l= eft: 1ex;"> Continuing the Language Theme...<br> <br> Brett - I can't find any reference to where/when this is used.</blockqu= ote><div><br>Bretonnia?<br></div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0= pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Kravonia is mentioned wrt Domani but not much anywhere else. =A0Does it sti= ll exist? =A0Do we really need Kravonian and Old-Kravonian?</blockquote><di= v><br>I'd got the impression from somewhere that Old-Kravonian turned i= nto other things and that there was effectively no modern Kravonian.=A0 (Or= that technically there was only Kravonian, now an old and almost dead lang= uage...)<br> </div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:= 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex= ;"> Khuzdul - is this synonymous with Dwarven? =A0A Dialect of Dwarven? =A0Anci= ent Dwarven?</blockquote><div><br>Hmmm.... Khuzdul is (RL) the name of &quo= t;dwarvish" in Tolkien. <br></div></div><br> --0016364ed58470920104705b7acd-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Languages: Alman, Brett, Kravonian, .. |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:14:43 +1200 |
--0016e6471508f9433704705b9002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: > Continuing the Language Theme... > > Brett - I can't find any reference to where/when this is used. Bretonnia? > Kravonia is mentioned wrt Domani but not much anywhere else. Does it still > exist? Do we really need Kravonian and Old-Kravonian? I'd got the impression from somewhere that Old-Kravonian turned into other things and that there was effectively no modern Kravonian. (Or that technically there was only Kravonian, now an old and almost dead language...) > Khuzdul - is this synonymous with Dwarven? A Dialect of Dwarven? Ancient > Dwarven? Hmmm.... Khuzdul is (RL) the name of "dwarvish" in Tolkien. --0016e6471508f9433704705b9002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Stephen Martin <= span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@aklnz.n= et</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"bord= er-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-l= eft: 1ex;"> Continuing the Language Theme...<br> <br> Brett - I can't find any reference to where/when this is used.</blockqu= ote><div><br>Bretonnia?<br></div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0= pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Kravonia is mentioned wrt Domani but not much anywhere else. =A0Does it sti= ll exist? =A0Do we really need Kravonian and Old-Kravonian?</blockquote><di= v><br>I'd got the impression from somewhere that Old-Kravonian turned i= nto other things and that there was effectively no modern Kravonian.=A0 (Or= that technically there was only Kravonian, now an old and almost dead lang= uage...)<br> </div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:= 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex= ;"> Khuzdul - is this synonymous with Dwarven? =A0A Dialect of Dwarven? =A0Anci= ent Dwarven?</blockquote><div><br>Hmmm.... Khuzdul is (RL) the name of &quo= t;dwarvish" in Tolkien. <br></div></div><br> --0016e6471508f9433704705b9002-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Languages: Alman, Brett, Kravonian, .. |
|---|---|
| From | R Mansfield |
| Date | Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:16:01 +1200 |
I’ve come across Old-Kravonian when doing ‘research’ in game, ie a dead language found in very old manuscripts. I faint memories that it was a) Alusian, b) had a vague association with early Dwarvish; not a precusor, but a nearby language (ie neighbouring culture). Rosemary ________________________________________ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Martin Dickson Sent: Wednesday, 5 August 2009 2:15 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Languages: Alman, Brett, Kravonian, .. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: Continuing the Language Theme... Brett - I can't find any reference to where/when this is used. Bretonnia? Kravonia is mentioned wrt Domani but not much anywhere else. Does it still exist? Do we really need Kravonian and Old-Kravonian? I'd got the impression from somewhere that Old-Kravonian turned into other things and that there was effectively no modern Kravonian. (Or that technically there was only Kravonian, now an old and almost dead language...) Khuzdul - is this synonymous with Dwarven? A Dialect of Dwarven? Ancient Dwarven? Hmmm.... Khuzdul is (RL) the name of "dwarvish" in Tolkien. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Languages: Alman, Brett, Kravonian, .. |
|---|---|
| From | Michael Parkinson |
| Date | Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:46:03 +1200 |
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Stephen asked:
Alman - Language of Pre-Destinian natives in Destiny??
=20
Vaguely. Actually the language of several Alusian peoples - especially
the clan-based raider tribes on the coast that were defeated in
Destiny's early history, but were tolerated on the mainland. Alman
speakers who migrated inland adopted the related Human language:
Folksprach, etc. The last native Alman-speaking jarl was executed
during the reign of King Carlos (of blessed memory) and the language
officially suppressed on the part of the mainland that Destiny has taken
over.
=20
Brett - I can't find any reference to where/when this is used.
=20
Bretonnia, as Martin surmised (or Bretlond as the Bretts call
it).
=20
Kravonia is mentioned wrt Domani but not much anywhere else. Does it
still exist? Do we really need Kravonian and Old-Kravonian?
=20
Old Kravonian is the language of a formerly nomadic tribe the elves
settled in Elfanburg and has been spoken there ever since. It was
called "Old" because it was the language of the "old" lifestyle; and
scholars called it Old too, because predated Panjarre by at least 7
centuries, it and was thought to be extinct elsewhere (what do real
scholars know of the tongues of barbarian horse tribes). Because
Elfanburg has always had a mostly undamaged, unpillaged library, some
texts in Old Kravonian may be useful for scholars. Some important
pre-Panjaree Elvish works were expurgated and translated into OK in the
mistaken belief that that peculiar tongue was spoken by all the humans
beyond the mountains. OK was virtually a dead language in Elfanburg,
with the uptake of Common to trade with non-OK speaking humans, until
some interfering time-travelling party interfered during in an ancient
catastrophe, hibernated a few thousand native speakers in the mountains
and then woke them up in the past decade. OK is experiencing a
renaissance (in Elfanburg), but is insignificant elsewhere. =20
=20
I believe Kravonian is either a name for the language of the Domani, or
what the Elfanburg defrostees speak who do not particularly consider
themselves ancient, Old, or dead.
=20
Sanddweller - Is this used anywhere? Is it meant to be Arabiq?
=20
Sanddweller is used by the nomadic human tribes in the deserts
adjacent, to the North & West, of Raniterre. There are some
superficial resemblance to peoples of Arabie except Sanddwellers are
more insular, paranoid, and perhaps better versed in poisons (part of
their colourful Drow-influenced heritage). Although there are fabulous
tales of lost cities from pres-sand times, the Sanddwellers detest
cities and any trade with other cultures ... apart from a little
free-lance raiding and the like.
=20
regards, Michael
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'color:red'>Stephen =
asked:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'color:red'>Alman - Language of =
Pre-Destinian
natives in Destiny??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Vaguely.
Actually the language of several Alusian peoples — especially the
clan-based raider tribes on the coast that were defeated in Destiny's =
early
history, but were tolerated on the mainland. Alman speakers who =
migrated
inland adopted the related Human language: Folksprach, etc. The =
last native
Alman-speaking <i>jarl </i>was executed during the reign of King Carlos =
(of blessed
memory) and the language officially suppressed on the part of the =
mainland that
Destiny has taken over.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'color:red'>Brett - I can't find =
any
reference to where/when this is used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'color:black'> &nb=
sp; Bretonnia,
as Martin surmised (or Bretlond as the Bretts call =
it).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'color:red'>Kravonia is mentioned =
wrt Domani
but not much anywhere else. Does it still exist? Do we =
really need
Kravonian and Old-Kravonian?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Old
Kravonian is the language of a formerly nomadic tribe the elves settled =
in Elfanburg
and has been spoken there ever since. It was called =
“Old”
because it was the language of the “old” lifestyle; and =
scholars
called it Old too, because predated Panjarre by at least 7 centuries, it =
and was
thought to be extinct elsewhere (what do real scholars know of the =
tongues of
barbarian horse tribes). Because Elfanburg has always had a mostly
undamaged, unpillaged library, some texts in Old Kravonian may be useful =
for
scholars. Some important pre-Panjaree Elvish works were expurgated =
and translated
into OK in the mistaken belief that that peculiar tongue was spoken by =
all the humans
beyond the mountains. OK was virtually a dead language =
in
Elfanburg, with the uptake of Common to trade with non-OK speaking =
humans, until
some interfering time-travelling party interfered during in an ancient
catastrophe, hibernated a few thousand native speakers in the mountains =
and
then woke them up in the past decade. OK is experiencing a =
renaissance
(in Elfanburg), but is insignificant elsewhere. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>I
believe Kravonian is <i>either</i> a name for the language of the =
Domani, or
what the Elfanburg defrostees speak who do not particularly consider =
themselves
ancient, Old, or dead.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'color:red'>Sanddweller - Is this =
used
anywhere? Is it meant to be Arabiq?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Sanddweller
is used by the nomadic human tribes in the deserts adjacent, to =
the North
& West, of Raniterre. There are some superficial =
resemblance to
peoples of Arabie except Sanddwellers are more insular, paranoid, and =
perhaps
better versed in poisons (part of their colourful Drow-influenced =
heritage). Although
there are fabulous tales of lost cities from pres-sand times, the =
Sanddwellers detest
cities and any trade with other cultures … apart from a =
little free-lance
raiding and the like.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>regards, Michael<o:p></o:p></p>
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