Messages for 27 August 2009

Subject	Re: [dq] Fumbling weapons
From	Michael Parkinson
Date	Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:04:28 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA26A1.90A894E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What Stephen suggests is workable. The other option would be to REWRITE the fumble table (and, as the primary author, I admit it flaws are many & obvious), so that A: The self-impaling or accidental blow in passing to colleague, or slipping/falling over so that they are [MOSTLY] stacked in the bottom 15% or so of the fumbles. B: The severity of some fumbles, only SOME, increases with overstrengthing: e.g., specimen at the bottom of this posting. C: Specifically classify as overstrengthing the Unarmed damage of "+ 1 for every 3 full points of PS over 15". Additionally, Fatigue or Endurance damage done as the result of a fumble is not absorbed by armour or magic unless the fumble or item write-up specifically allows it. =20 FUMBLING RULES 1: You fumble on a NATURAL dice roll of 00, or on a roll of 98-00 if using a weapon that either you are unranked in or is not in one of your warrior categories. Occasionally the GM may modify these figures if you are using a faulty or improvised weapon; but overstrengthing, per se, does not alter the dice roll on which you must check for a fumble. =20 2: Roll d100 on the fumble table. This roll is unmodifiable for luck, curse, greater enchantment, etc. However you MUST any applicable Aspect bonus or subtract any Aspect penalty =20 3: Ignore only results under [Weapon Rank] +[Warrior OR Assassin rank] =20 Simple! Most strikes are fine: you may or may not hit your target; but the chances of hitting your own leg are negligible for a medium to high character - yet frighteningly high for a novice. Respect the weapon! Respect your own incompetence! One side-effect: most people who make a living attacking other creatures for a living will have a level or two in warrior. Perfectly reasonable. =20 Specimen=20 xx: Your blow is wide and you jarringly strike a solid part of the environment (such as a wall or rock). Take fatigue damage of 1+your overstrengthing bonus, and make a 2xMD to avoid dropping your weapon. However, if the strike was from an armoured hand or foot, you may subtract half the armour's protection from this fumble damage. =20 =20 Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858) Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stephen Martin Sent: Wednesday, 26 August 2009 8:13 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] DQ: Fumbling weapons =20 The current fumble table and rules were re-done about 10 years ago to better fit our campaign. The net result is that fumbles changed from rarely happening to almost never happening. =20 Part of the problem is that the chance of 'saving' the fumble by rolling under IV is too high. =20 One option is to remove the 'save', if you roll a fumble you get a fumble. But skill/ability lets you ameliorate the result. I.e. A fumble table from -50 (trivial) to 100 (breakage and self injury). Roll your dice, apply your lesser, death aspect, etc. And also reduce the dice roll by Rank + MD (or something like that) and then wear whatever the result is on the Fumble Table. =20 Cheers, Stephen. =20 Michael Parkinson wrote: > There should be more fumbles. When the original table was constructed > it was based on bunny- to medium-level characters with little or > moderate magic and ignoring the effect of other skills (especially > Warrior). I still believe that there should be comparatively few > weapon breakages - but there should be more fumbles. Not necessarily > dangerous or fatal, but the odd extra fatigue loss from overexertion or > loss of Initiative on next swing, etc, >=20 > Yes, high-level character should have fewer total fumbles than bunnies > ... but not "virtually none" which Andrew points out. How can High > level characters be pushing themselves up to an extreme level of > initiative and strike chance without still risking the occasional > "overreach" or misjudgement. >=20 > Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858) > Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA26A1.90A894E6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:x=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" = xmlns:p=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" = xmlns:a=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" = xmlns:dt=3D"uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" = xmlns:s=3D"uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" = xmlns:rs=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z=3D"#RowsetSchema" = xmlns:b=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" = xmlns:ss=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" = xmlns:c=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" = xmlns:odc=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" = xmlns:oa=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" = xmlns:html=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" = xmlns:q=3D"http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" = xmlns:rtc=3D"http://microsoft.com/officenet/conferencing" = xmlns:D=3D"DAV:" xmlns:Repl=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/repl/" = xmlns:mt=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/meetings/" = xmlns:x2=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" = xmlns:ppda=3D"http://www.passport.com/NameSpace.xsd" = xmlns:ois=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" = xmlns:dir=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" = xmlns:ds=3D"http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" = xmlns:dsp=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" = xmlns:udc=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" = xmlns:xsd=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" = xmlns:sub=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/"= xmlns:ec=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" = xmlns:sp=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" = xmlns:sps=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" = xmlns:xsi=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" = xmlns:udcs=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" = xmlns:udcxf=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" = xmlns:udcp2p=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" = xmlns:wf=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" = xmlns:dsss=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" = xmlns:dssi=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" = xmlns:mdssi=3D"http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-sig= nature" = xmlns:mver=3D"http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006= " xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns:mrels=3D"http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationshi= ps" xmlns:spwp=3D"http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" = xmlns:ex12t=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types"= = xmlns:ex12m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messag= es" = xmlns:pptsl=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/= " = xmlns:spsl=3D"http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/Pub= lishedLinksService" xmlns:Z=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" = xmlns:st=3D"" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} / Style Definitions / p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char"; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";} span.PlainTextChar {mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Plain Text"; font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-NZ link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>What Stephen suggests is workable.  The = other* option would be to REWRITE the fumble table (and, as the primary author, = I admit it flaws are many & obvious), so that<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'>A:  The = self-impaling or accidental blow in passing to colleague, or slipping/falling over so = that they are [MOSTLY] stacked in the bottom 15% or so of the = fumbles.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'>B:  The = severity of some fumbles, only SOME, increases with overstrengthing: e.g., <b><span style=3D'color:red'>specimen</span></b> at the bottom of this = posting.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'>C: Specifically = classify as overstrengthing the Unarmed damage of “+ 1 for every 3 full points = of PS over 15”.  Additionally, Fatigue or Endurance damage done as = the result of a fumble is not absorbed by armour or magic unless the fumble = or item write-up specifically allows it.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>FUMBLING RULES<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'>1: You fumble on a = NATURAL dice roll of 00, or on a roll of 98-00 if using a weapon that either you = are unranked in or is not in one of your warrior categories.  = Occasionally the GM may modify these figures if you are using a faulty or improvised = weapon; but overstrengthing, per se, does not alter the dice roll on which you = must check for a fumble.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText = style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'>2: Roll d100 on the = fumble table.  This roll is unmodifiable for luck, curse, greater = enchantment, etc.  However you MUST any applicable Aspect bonus or subtract any = Aspect penalty<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText = style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'>3: Ignore only = results under [Weapon Rank] +[Warrior OR Assassin rank]<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>Simple!  Most strikes are fine: you may or = may not hit your target; but the chances of hitting your own leg are negligible = for a medium to high character — yet frighteningly high for a = novice.  Respect the weapon!  Respect your own incompetence!  One = side-effect: most people who make a living attacking other creatures for a living = will have a level or two in warrior.  Perfectly reasonable.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'color:red'>Specimen = <o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'>xx:  Your blow = is wide and you jarringly strike a solid part of the environment (such as a wall = or rock).  Take fatigue damage of 1+your overstrengthing bonus, and = make a 2xMD to avoid dropping your weapon.  However, if the strike was = from an armoured hand or foot, you may subtract half the armour’s = protection from this fumble damage.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext = 85858)<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>Mathematics & Statistics Subject = Librarian<o:p></o:p></p> <p = class=3DMsoPlainText>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original = Message-----<br> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of = Stephen Martin<br> Sent: Wednesday, 26 August 2009 8:13 p.m.<br> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br> Subject: Re: [dq] DQ: Fumbling weapons</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>The current fumble table and rules were re-done = about 10 years ago to better fit our campaign.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>The net result is that fumbles changed from = rarely happening to almost never happening.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>Part of the problem is that the chance of = 'saving' the fumble by rolling under IV is too high.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>One option is to remove the 'save', if you roll = a fumble you get a fumble.  But skill/ability lets<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>you ameliorate the result.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>I.e. A fumble table from -50 (trivial) to 100 = (breakage and self injury).  Roll your dice, apply<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>your lesser, death aspect, etc.  And also = reduce the dice roll by Rank + MD (or something like<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>that) and then wear whatever the result is on = the Fumble Table.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>Cheers, Stephen.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>Michael Parkinson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> There should be more fumbles.  When = the original table was constructed<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> it was based on bunny- to medium-level = characters with little or<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> moderate magic and ignoring the effect of = other skills (especially<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> Warrior).  I still believe that there = should be comparatively few<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> weapon breakages - but there should be more fumbles.  Not necessarily<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> dangerous or fatal, but the odd extra = fatigue loss from overexertion or<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> loss of Initiative on next swing, = etc,<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> Yes, high-level character should have fewer = total fumbles than bunnies<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> ... but not "virtually none" = which Andrew points out.  How can High<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> level characters  be pushing = themselves up to an extreme level of<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> initiative and strike chance without still = risking the occasional<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> "overreach" or = misjudgement.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext = 85858)<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> Mathematics & Statistics Subject = Librarian<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoPlainText>-- to unsubscribe notify = mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </body> </html> ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA26A1.90A894E6-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Fumbling weapons
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:47:13 +1200
--0016363106ebf715db047214117a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Michael Parkinson < m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz> wrote: > 2: Roll d100 on the fumble table. This roll is unmodifiable for luck, > curse, greater enchantment, etc. However you MUST any applicable Aspect > bonus or subtract any Aspect penalty > If we were going this way I'd suggest that yes, Greater Enchantment wouldn't apply because this isn't a BC, but that Lesser Enchantment and other dice roll modifiers should (although having the bad things at the bottom may complicate matters somewhat). Being under an Ill luck major curse _should_ make you more likely to slice your own leg off. :) --0016363106ebf715db047214117a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Michael Parkin= son <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz">m.p= arkinson@auckland.ac.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><div>=A0</div><blockquote = class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); m= argin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-NZ"><div>2: Roll d100 on the= fumble table.=A0 This roll is unmodifiable for luck, curse, greater enchantment, etc.=A0 However you MUST any applicable Aspect bonus or subtract any Aspect penalty</div></div></blockquote><div><br>If we were going this way I'd = suggest that yes, Greater Enchantment wouldn't apply because this isn&#= 39;t a BC, but that Lesser Enchantment and other dice roll modifiers should= (although having the bad things at the bottom may complicate matters somew= hat).=A0 Being under an Ill luck major curse _should_ make you more likely = to slice your own leg off. :)<br> </div></div> --0016363106ebf715db047214117a-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Fumbling weapons
From	Michael Parkinson
Date	Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:29:21 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA26AD.6C197CF6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Martin's reasoning is quite valid, indeed emotionally preferable; also I didn't like the fact that the aspect penalty/bonus were counter to the normal application (except on the reaction table). But I was basing it the initial suggestion on the fact that most GMs do NOT permit lesser to work on the Grievous Injury Table or Backfire table for example. However, one reason I specifically wanted the aspects to apply was that while a life-aspected character suffering a death-penalty in combat should miss more often, I didn't think they should necessarily fumble more often, yet when they did fumble, it should have a tendency to be more serious. This would also prevent characters with "preset dice-rolls" (as per several write-ups) from saving those high numbers for fumble rolls. (As an aside, Jono had the entire party laughing uproariously this week on how he interpreted these in our death and death battle this week.) =20 Do others also want modified rolls, where luck & curse effects the outcome of a fumble, but specifically excluding Greater Enchantment (on technical grounds & because we don't want it)? =20 IF SO, the fumble table should be reversed with predominantly mild at the bottom and with self-inflicted blows, etc, at the very top. One then ignores results over 80+[Weapon Rank] +[Warrior OR Assassin rank] ... or something like that. We would also have to either include negative results or, more simply, ignore any result under 01. =20 Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858) Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian NB: physically at work, but on leave -- catching up on DQ stuff etc =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =20 From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Martin Dickson Sent: Thursday, 27 August 2009 11:47 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Fumbling weapons =20 On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Michael Parkinson <m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz> wrote: =20 2: Roll d100 on the fumble table. This roll is unmodifiable for luck, curse, greater enchantment, etc. However you MUST any applicable Aspect bonus or subtract any Aspect penalty If we were going this way I'd suggest that yes, Greater Enchantment wouldn't apply because this isn't a BC, but that Lesser Enchantment and other dice roll modifiers should (although having the bad things at the bottom may complicate matters somewhat). Being under an Ill luck major curse _should_ make you more likely to slice your own leg off. :) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA26AD.6C197CF6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:x=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" = xmlns:p=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" = xmlns:a=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" = xmlns:dt=3D"uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" = xmlns:s=3D"uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" = xmlns:rs=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z=3D"#RowsetSchema" = xmlns:b=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" = xmlns:ss=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" = xmlns:c=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" = xmlns:odc=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" = xmlns:oa=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" = xmlns:html=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" = xmlns:q=3D"http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" = xmlns:rtc=3D"http://microsoft.com/officenet/conferencing" = xmlns:D=3D"DAV:" xmlns:Repl=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/repl/" = xmlns:mt=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/meetings/" = xmlns:x2=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" = xmlns:ppda=3D"http://www.passport.com/NameSpace.xsd" = xmlns:ois=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" = xmlns:dir=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" = xmlns:ds=3D"http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" = xmlns:dsp=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" = xmlns:udc=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" = xmlns:xsd=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" = xmlns:sub=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/"= xmlns:ec=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" = xmlns:sp=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" = xmlns:sps=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" = xmlns:xsi=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" = xmlns:udcs=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" = xmlns:udcxf=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" = xmlns:udcp2p=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" = xmlns:wf=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" = xmlns:dsss=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" = xmlns:dssi=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" = xmlns:mdssi=3D"http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-sig= nature" = xmlns:mver=3D"http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006= " xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns:mrels=3D"http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationshi= ps" xmlns:spwp=3D"http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" = xmlns:ex12t=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types"= = xmlns:ex12m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messag= es" = xmlns:pptsl=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/= " = xmlns:spsl=3D"http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/Pub= lishedLinksService" xmlns:Z=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" = xmlns:st=3D"" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:SimSun; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} @font-face {font-family:SimSun; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"\@SimSun"; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} @font-face {font-family:NimbusSanL-Bold; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:windowtext; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none none;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-NZ link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Martin’s reasoning is quite valid, indeed = emotionally preferable; also I didn’t like the fact that the aspect penalty/bonus were = counter to the normal application (except on the reaction table).  But I was = basing it the <i>initial</i> suggestion on the fact that most GMs do NOT permit = lesser to work on the Grievous Injury Table or Backfire table for = example.  However, one reason I specifically wanted the aspects to apply was that while a = life-aspected character suffering a death-penalty in combat should miss more often, I = didn’t think they should necessarily fumble more often, yet when they = <i>did</i> fumble, it should have a tendency to be more serious.  This would = also prevent characters with “preset dice-rolls” (as per several write-ups) from saving those high numbers for fumble rolls.  (<i>As = an aside, Jono had the entire party laughing uproariously this week on how = he interpreted these in our death and death battle this = week.</i>)<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Do others also want <b><i>modified</i></b> rolls, = where luck & curse effects the outcome of a fumble, but specifically excluding = Greater Enchantment (on technical grounds & because we don’t want = it)?<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i>IF SO</i></b>, the fumble table should be = reversed with predominantly mild at the bottom and with self-inflicted blows, etc, at = the very top.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>One then ignores results over 80+[Weapon Rank] = +[Warrior OR Assassin rank]  … or <i>something</i> like = that.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>We would also have to either include negative = results or, more simply, ignore any result under 01.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858)<br> Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>NB: physically at work, but on leave -- catching up = on DQ stuff etc<br> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt = 0cm 0cm 0cm'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Dickson<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 27 August 2009 11:47 a.m.<br> <b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Fumbling weapons<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Michael Parkinson = <<a href=3D"mailto:m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz">m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz</a>= > wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC = 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt; margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>2: Roll d100 on the fumble table.  This roll = is unmodifiable for luck, curse, greater enchantment, etc.  However you MUST any applicable Aspect bonus or subtract any Aspect penalty<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><br> If we were going this way I'd suggest that yes, Greater Enchantment = wouldn't apply because this isn't a BC, but that Lesser Enchantment and other = dice roll modifiers should (although having the bad things at the bottom may = complicate matters somewhat).  Being under an Ill luck major curse _should_ = make you more likely to slice your own leg off. :)<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA26AD.6C197CF6-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Fumbling weapons
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:41:14 +1200
--0016e646a51e301800047214d3d2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Michael Parkinson < m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz> wrote: > Do others also want modified rolls, where luck & curse effects the > outcome of a fumble, but specifically excluding Greater Enchantment (on > technical grounds & because we don=92t want it)? > Just one note re. the big Ill luck curse effects: in my experience they're pretty rare since if you manage to get a major curse on an enemy they're more likely to end up going "ribbit" than being afflicted with the sort of luck that sees them slicing off their own ears with a glaive. We would also have to either include negative results or, more simply, > ignore any result under 01. > Something special for 01 would be nice -- I think any poor sap who gets an 00 followed by an 01 deserves to have their weapon fly from their hand AND skewer their opponent. :) --0016e646a51e301800047214d3d2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Michael Parkin= son <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz">m.p= arkinson@auckland.ac.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail= _quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt= 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-NZ"><div> <p>Do others also want <b><i>modified</i></b> rolls, where luck & curse effects the outcome of a fumble, but specifically excluding Gre= ater Enchantment (on technical grounds & because we don=92t want it)?</p></d= iv></div></blockquote><div>Just one note re. the big Ill luck curse effects= : in my experience they're pretty rare since if you manage to get a maj= or curse on an enemy they're more likely to end up going "ribbit&q= uot; than being afflicted with the sort of luck that sees them slicing off = their own ears with a glaive.<br> <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid= rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div li= nk=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-NZ"><div><p>We would also have to e= ither include negative results or, more simply, ignore any result under 01.</p></div></div></blockquote><div>S= omething special for 01 would be nice -- I think any poor sap who gets an 0= 0 followed by an 01 deserves to have their weapon fly from their hand AND s= kewer their opponent. :)<br> </div></div> --0016e646a51e301800047214d3d2-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Fumbling weapons
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:05:25 +1200 (NZST)
My opinions... I prefer low being good and high being bad in DQ tables. We could extend the table of results below 1 and above 100, but it is simpler to make the table <=1, 2, 3... 99, 100+ It's a dice roll, apply any/all dice modifiers. If there is no good reason for an exception from the way DQ normally works, then keeping it standard keeps it simple and faster to use in game. It's not a Base Chance, a Greater won't help. With the proposal below, a skilled character will want to roll high so they get a result which they can ignore. I would prefer that the skill component reduced the severity of the fumble rather than ignoring a range of results. So that when you get a fumble, you will always have some sort of fumble result. I.e. the skill component should effectively come off the dice roll. I disagree with Assassin being part of the skill modifier. Assassin is the skill of killing people, it is not a skill of handling weapons well. Weapon Rank & Warrior Rank sounds good to me. I'd like for MD to be involved but better to keep it simple. Cheers, Stephen. Michael Parkinson wrote: > Martin's reasoning is quite valid, indeed emotionally preferable; also I > didn't like the fact that the aspect penalty/bonus were counter to the > normal application (except on the reaction table). But I was basing it > the initial suggestion on the fact that most GMs do NOT permit lesser to > work on the Grievous Injury Table or Backfire table for example. > However, one reason I specifically wanted the aspects to apply was that > while a life-aspected character suffering a death-penalty in combat > should miss more often, I didn't think they should necessarily fumble > more often, yet when they did fumble, it should have a tendency to be > more serious. This would also prevent characters with "preset > dice-rolls" (as per several write-ups) from saving those high numbers > for fumble rolls. (As an aside, Jono had the entire party laughing > uproariously this week on how he interpreted these in our death and > death battle this week.) > > > > Do others also want modified rolls, where luck & curse effects the > outcome of a fumble, but specifically excluding Greater Enchantment (on > technical grounds & because we don't want it)? > > > > IF SO, the fumble table should be reversed with predominantly mild at > the bottom and with self-inflicted blows, etc, at the very top. > > One then ignores results over 80+[Weapon Rank] +[Warrior OR Assassin > rank] ... or something like that. > > We would also have to either include negative results or, more simply, > ignore any result under 01. > > > > Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858) > Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian > > NB: physically at work, but on leave -- catching up on DQ stuff etc > =========================> > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of > Martin Dickson > Sent: Thursday, 27 August 2009 11:47 a.m. > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Fumbling weapons > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Michael Parkinson > <m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz> wrote: > > > > 2: Roll d100 on the fumble table. This roll is unmodifiable for > luck, curse, greater enchantment, etc. However you MUST any applicable > Aspect bonus or subtract any Aspect penalty > > > If we were going this way I'd suggest that yes, Greater Enchantment > wouldn't apply because this isn't a BC, but that Lesser Enchantment and > other dice roll modifiers should (although having the bad things at the > bottom may complicate matters somewhat). Being under an Ill luck major > curse _should_ make you more likely to slice your own leg off. :) > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Overstrength Damage with Weapons
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:24:05 +1200 (NZST)
Going with the concept that applying excess strength leads to increased fumbles but simplifying and chunking it a bit more... If you apply excess PS, each (PS Required for the weapon) applied increases the fumble chance by 5% E.g. A weapon with 10 PS requirement, each +2 damage from over-strength increases the fumble chance by 5%. But a weapon with 22 PS Req will not fumble more often until you apply 5 or more damage from over-strength. I like that this makes bigger/heavier weapons better for using with excessive PS. And it means that unless they apply magic to increase their PS most characters will get to add their 1 or 2 extra damage from PS without any additional complications. Cheers, Stephen. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Overstrength Damage with Weapons
From	Michael Parkinson
Date	Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:43:41 +1200
There is NO good reason why over-strengthing increases a fumble (although there may be a mediocre reason that we don't want people to over-strength weapons). If you are chopping wood with a large axe, putting more strength into your blow not only splits the wood better (i.e. does more damage), but actually makes it easier and safer to use the axe than doing timid blows. Admittedly, if you "fumble" -- e.g. swing beyond the wood or don't bring the axe down straight, the effect of the fumble is worse, but you haven't increased your chance of fumbling, just the effect when you do fumble. regards, Michael ========================= -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stephen Martin Sent: Thursday, 27 August 2009 1:24 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Overstrength Damage with Weapons Going with the concept that applying excess strength leads to increased fumbles but simplifying and chunking it a bit more... If you apply excess PS, each (PS Required for the weapon) applied increases the fumble chance by 5% E.g. A weapon with 10 PS requirement, each +2 damage from over-strength increases the fumble chance by 5%. But a weapon with 22 PS Req will not fumble more often until you apply 5 or more damage from over-strength. I like that this makes bigger/heavier weapons better for using with excessive PS. And it means that unless they apply magic to increase their PS most characters will get to add their 1 or 2 extra damage from PS without any additional complications. Cheers, Stephen. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --