SubjectRe: [dq] How much rock is earth?
FromDean Ellis
DateWed, 11 Nov 2009 17:05:32 -0800 (PST)
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Hi All,
=A0
Reading through all the posts definitely shows there is a need for clarific=
ation and standardisation, as the interpretations are quite varied.
=A0
I for one have no problem with a mounted Earth mage casting, nor a problem =
with one in the first or higher level of a house/tower. As soon as you star=
t trying to define what does and does not constitute a "barrier" to contact=
 with earth, then grey areas will crop up. Can an earth mage wear boots at =
all, if so, how thick a sole is allowed? Are they allowed to cast on the gr=
ound floor of a wooden floored house, if so, why not any higher up in the b=
uilding, and where is the tipping point? How about standing on a chair, eve=
n if it is=A03 inches high vs 10? Items, animals and structures that are gr=
ound based should not form a barrier to contact with earth IMHO
My basic rule is "if you are floating or flying you cannot cast, otherwise =
fine". this covers most bases, and the rest I will adjudicate on at the tim=
e.
=A0
As to why the restrictions are different, I would answer "playability"
Earth and Air by far and away have the easiest accessibility to contact wit=
h their element in the normal course of a game
The Celestial colleges are not far behind
Ice, Water and Fire are comparitively far less common and less accessible.
A "one size fits all" approach is likely to penalise the latter colleges, o=
r create a restriction for the former which is basically worthless
Hence we basically have restrictions that take this into account to make th=
em more playable, and are basically in reverse order or level compared to c=
ommonality of contact
ie more contact, more restrictive; less contact, less restrictive
=A0
Regards,
=A0
Dean Ellis

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:


From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net>
Subject: Re: [dq] How much rock is earth?
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:22 PM


Good points Ian.=A0 I just checked the other Elemental colleges about when =
they cannot cast at all.

Air: Not vacuum nor underwater.=A0 Must be in contact with air.
Celestial: Element must be present - only 0%/100% Light/Dark prevents casti=
ng.
Fire: Not vacuum nor underwater.=A0 Must be possible for fire to exist.
Ice: No restriction
Water: Not Vacuum nor Totally Arid places.=A0 Must be in contact with their=
 element.

Ice is an anomaly with no restriction.=A0 Fire requires the potential to ex=
ist.=A0 But the others
are fairly consistent they require you element to be present and/or in cont=
act.


In theory all a Fire or Air Mage needs to get around their restriction is a=
 bubble of air, of
course you would expect that their effects would also be constrained to tha=
t bubble of air.
Similar for water mages, they just need to make sure they always carry a bu=
cket or maybe even
a flask of water when they go to the desert. BC% will suck and your targets=
/effects would be
limited but it would be enough to cast.

Is there a reason for Earth to be more restricted than the other elemental =
colleges?

Could we apply a similar guideline to all of them for how much of your elem=
ent you need when
it is not naturally present?
E.g. You need a volume of your element greater than your own volume (good f=
or Hobbits, sucks
for giants and dragons).=A0 Or a hex (5' diameter) of your element to be mo=
re egalitarian.

Or perhaps the element needs to be bound to allow you to cast in an unfrien=
dly environment -
makes the various expensive binding elements rituals specifically useful.

And why is Ice unrestricted?=A0 I would expect them to have the same limit =
as Water - not vacuum
nor totally arid.

Cheers, Stephen.

On Tue, November 10, 2009 6:11 pm, Ian Wood wrote:
>
> I did start from Martin's suggestion of contact with the whole ball of
> greasy cheese, and then wondered about other elements.
>
> What volume of air would an air-mage require if underground?
>
> Or fire for a fire mage?
>
> Or Ice?
>
> A sphere of 5 feet radius? Is that too easy?
>
> How game breaking is it for an earth mage to be able to cast on a ship (w=
ith
> suitable solid ballast)? The earth elemental may object to his summoning.
>
> Ian


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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Hi All,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Reading through all the posts definitely shows there is a need for cla=
rification and standardisation, as the interpretations are quite varied.</D=
IV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I for one have no problem with a mounted Earth mage casting, nor a pro=
blem with one in the first or higher level of a house/tower. As soon as you=
 start trying to define what does and does not constitute a "barrier" to co=
ntact with earth, then grey areas will crop up. Can an earth mage wear boot=
s at all, if so, how thick a sole is allowed? Are they allowed to cast on t=
he ground floor of a wooden floored house, if so, why not any higher up in =
the building, and where is the tipping point? How about standing on a chair=
, even if it is&nbsp;3 inches high vs 10? Items, animals and structures tha=
t are ground based should not form a barrier to contact with earth IMHO</DI=
V>
<DIV>My basic rule is "if you are floating or flying you cannot cast, other=
wise fine". this covers most bases, and the rest I will adjudicate on at th=
e time.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As to why the restrictions are different, I would answer "playability"=
</DIV>
<DIV>Earth and Air by far and away have the easiest accessibility to contac=
t with their element in the normal course of a game</DIV>
<DIV>The Celestial colleges are not far behind</DIV>
<DIV>Ice, Water and Fire are comparitively far less common and less accessi=
ble.</DIV>
<DIV>A "one size fits all" approach is likely to penalise the latter colleg=
es, or create a restriction for the former which is basically worthless</DI=
V>
<DIV>Hence we basically have restrictions that take this into account to ma=
ke them more playable, and are basically in reverse order or level compared=
 to commonality of contact</DIV>
<DIV>ie more contact, more restrictive; less contact, less restrictive</DIV=
>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dean Ellis<BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 11/10/09, Stephen Martin <I>&lt;steph=
enm@aklnz.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Stephen Martin &lt;stephenm@aklnz.net&gt;<B=
R>Subject: Re: [dq] How much rock is earth?<BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>Date:=
 Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:22 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>Good points Ian.&nbsp; I just checked the other Elem=
ental colleges about when they cannot cast at all.<BR><BR>Air: Not vacuum n=
or underwater.&nbsp; Must be in contact with air.<BR>Celestial: Element mus=
t be present - only 0%/100% Light/Dark prevents casting.<BR>Fire: Not vacuu=
m nor underwater.&nbsp; Must be possible for fire to exist.<BR>Ice: No rest=
riction<BR>Water: Not Vacuum nor Totally Arid places.&nbsp; Must be in cont=
act with their element.<BR><BR>Ice is an anomaly with no restriction.&nbsp;=
 Fire requires the potential to exist.&nbsp; But the others<BR>are fairly c=
onsistent they require you element to be present and/or in contact.<BR><BR>=
<BR>In theory all a Fire or Air Mage needs to get around their restriction =
is a bubble of air, of<BR>course you would expect that their effects would =
also be constrained to that bubble of air.<BR>Similar for water mages, they=
 just need to make sure they always carry a bucket or maybe even<BR>a
 flask of water when they go to the desert. BC% will suck and your targets/=
effects would be<BR>limited but it would be enough to cast.<BR><BR>Is there=
 a reason for Earth to be more restricted than the other elemental colleges=
?<BR><BR>Could we apply a similar guideline to all of them for how much of =
your element you need when<BR>it is not naturally present?<BR>E.g. You need=
 a volume of your element greater than your own volume (good for Hobbits, s=
ucks<BR>for giants and dragons).&nbsp; Or a hex (5' diameter) of your eleme=
nt to be more egalitarian.<BR><BR>Or perhaps the element needs to be bound =
to allow you to cast in an unfriendly environment -<BR>makes the various ex=
pensive binding elements rituals specifically useful.<BR><BR>And why is Ice=
 unrestricted?&nbsp; I would expect them to have the same limit as Water - =
not vacuum<BR>nor totally arid.<BR><BR>Cheers, Stephen.<BR><BR>On Tue, Nove=
mber 10, 2009 6:11 pm, Ian Wood wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I did start
 from Martin's suggestion of contact with the whole ball of<BR>&gt; greasy =
cheese, and then wondered about other elements.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What volume=
 of air would an air-mage require if underground?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Or fire f=
or a fire mage?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Or Ice?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A sphere of 5 feet =
radius? Is that too easy?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How game breaking is it for an ea=
rth mage to be able to cast on a ship (with<BR>&gt; suitable solid ballast)=
? The earth elemental may object to his summoning.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ian<BR><=
BR><BR>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<A href=3D"http://us.mc1101.mail.yah=
oo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-reques=
t@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A> --<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td><=
/tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A      
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SubjectRe: [dq] How much rock is earth?
FromMartin Dickson
DateThu, 12 Nov 2009 19:42:17 +1300
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On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Dean Ellis <deangellis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> I for one have no problem with a mounted Earth mage casting...
>

Interesting.

20.1 "A practitioner of this College is considered in contact with the eart=
h
if they are in contact with an item which is, itself, rooted in the earth
(tree, plant, foundation of a house, etc.). They would not be in contact
with earth if they were in the air or in water where they could not touch
bottom, or if they were atop a piece of furniture or an animal as these are
not rooted in the ground. An Adept in a person=92s arms is not in contact w=
ith
the earth."


While we can /should discuss the amount of earth needed for contact, the on=
e
clear rule that does appear to be there at the moment is that if you lift a=
n
earth mage off the ground then they cannot cast.  (I've always assumed this
was a reference to Antaeus (Greek myth), who was massively strong while in
contact with the earth.  Heracles ended up holding him off the earth to
break his power (and then squished him)).

I would have thought horses would be out for earth mages casting... as woul=
d
standing on a chair, etc.

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Dean Ellis <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:deangellis@yahoo.com">deangellis@yahoo.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"bor=
der-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-=
left: 1ex;">
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td styl=
e=3D"font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font=
-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjus=
t: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top">
<div>=A0</div>
<div>I for one have no problem with a mounted Earth mage casting...</div></=
td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div><br>Interesting.<br><br>20.1 &quo=
t;A practitioner of this College is considered in contact with the earth if=
 they are in contact with an item which is, itself, rooted in the earth (tr=
ee, plant, foundation of a house, etc.). They would not be in contact with =
earth if they were in the air or in water where they could not touch bottom=
, or if they were atop a piece of furniture or an animal as these are not r=
ooted in the ground. An Adept in a person=92s arms is not in contact with t=
he earth.&quot;<br>
<br><br>While we can /should discuss the amount of earth needed for contact=
, the one clear rule that does appear to be there at the moment is that if =
you lift an earth mage off the ground then they cannot cast.=A0 (I&#39;ve a=
lways assumed this was a reference to Antaeus (Greek myth), who was massive=
ly strong while in contact with the earth.=A0 Heracles ended up holding him=
 off the earth to break his power (and then squished him)).<br>
<br>I would have thought horses would be out for earth mages casting... as =
would standing on a chair, etc.<br></div></div>

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