SubjectRe: [dq] How much rock is earth?
FromDean Ellis
DateThu, 12 Nov 2009 15:25:46 -0800 (PST)
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Hi Martin,
=C2=A0
You are absolutely right in saying that my take on the Earth mage restricti=
on is at odds with the exact wording in the rulebook, and I do apologise fo=
r that.
As a background, I have never really agreed with the rulebook in this regar=
d, so you will just have to consider me a rogue GM :-)
=C2=A0
Possibly not valid to this discussion, so feel free to ignore, but here are=
 my basic arguments as to why I feel it is "wrong"
=C2=A0

We have a college dedicated to earth based magics, which covers earth, plan=
ts and animals, and yet the latter is not "earthy" enough to be considered =
a bond when in contact. In my opinion the "cannot cast while riding a horse=
/other ground based animal" restriction contradicts any reasoning for inclu=
ding ground animal based magics in the college
I have never understood the deliniation that says that I can stand on a pla=
nk as part of the 1st floor of a house and be able to cast, but if I put th=
e same plank on the ground by itself and stand on it, I cannot
Ahhh, I hear you say, "of course an Earth mage can cast while standing on a=
 single plank lying on the ground", but according to the rules, the answer =
should be no, and if you do allow such, then why not a plank on 4 short leg=
s, otherwise known as a chair.
If the single plank is accepted as "blocking" contact with earth, then why =
are boots exempted?
I consider animals like wolves and horses to be "earthy", so therefore the =
riding of such to be similarly so. Same with earthbound objects such as car=
ts and chairs. This ends up distilling down to the very simple rule of "flo=
ating or flying is bad, all else is cool". Having said that, I do not force=
 that interpretation onto Earth mages on my game, letting them work within =
the constraints they are used to, but use it when an outside the square sce=
nario arises
=C2=A0
Regards,
=C2=A0
Dean


--- On Thu, 11/12/09, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [dq] How much rock is earth?
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 6:42 AM



On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Dean Ellis <deangellis@yahoo.com> wrote:






=C2=A0
I for one have no problem with a mounted Earth mage casting...

Interesting.

20.1 "A practitioner of this College is considered in contact with the eart=
h if they are in contact with an item which is, itself, rooted in the earth=
 (tree, plant, foundation of a house, etc.). They would not be in contact w=
ith earth if they were in the air or in water where they could not touch bo=
ttom, or if they were atop a piece of furniture or an animal as these are n=
ot rooted in the ground. An Adept in a person=E2=80=99s arms is not in cont=
act with the earth."


While we can /should discuss the amount of earth needed for contact, the on=
e clear rule that does appear to be there at the moment is that if you lift=
 an earth mage off the ground then they cannot cast.=C2=A0 (I've always ass=
umed this was a reference to Antaeus (Greek myth), who was massively strong=
 while in contact with the earth.=C2=A0 Heracles ended up holding him off t=
he earth to break his power (and then squished him)).

I would have thought horses would be out for earth mages casting... as woul=
d standing on a chair, etc.
=0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Hi Martin,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>You are absolutely right in saying that my take on the Earth mage rest=
riction is at odds with the exact wording in the rulebook, and I do apologi=
se for that.</DIV>
<DIV>As a background, I have never really agreed with the rulebook in this =
regard, so you will just have to consider me a rogue GM :-)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Possibly not valid to this discussion, so feel free to ignore, but her=
e are my basic arguments as to why I feel it is "wrong"</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<UL>
<LI>We have a college dedicated to earth based magics, which covers earth, =
plants and animals, and yet the latter is not "earthy" enough to be conside=
red a bond when in contact. In my opinion the "cannot cast while riding a h=
orse/other ground based animal" restriction contradicts any reasoning for i=
ncluding ground animal based magics in the college</LI>
<LI>I have never understood the deliniation that says that I can stand on a=
 plank as part of the 1st floor of a house and be able to cast, but if I pu=
t the same plank on the ground by itself and stand on it, I cannot<BR>Ahhh,=
 I hear you say, "of course an Earth mage can cast while standing on a sing=
le plank lying on the ground", but according to the rules, the answer shoul=
d be no, and if you do allow such, then why not a plank on 4 short legs, ot=
herwise known as a chair.<BR>If the single plank is accepted as "blocking" =
contact with earth, then why are boots exempted?</LI>
<LI>I consider animals like wolves and horses to be "earthy", so therefore =
the riding of such to be similarly so. Same with earthbound objects such as=
 carts and chairs. This ends up distilling down to the very simple rule of =
"floating or flying is bad, all else is cool". Having said that, I do not f=
orce that interpretation onto Earth mages on my game, letting them work wit=
hin the constraints they are used to, but use it when an outside the square=
 scenario arises</LI></UL>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dean</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 11/12/09, Martin Dickson <I>&lt;martin.dickson@=
gmail.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Martin Dickson &lt;martin.dickson@gmail.com=
&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [dq] How much rock is earth?<BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR=
>Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 6:42 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv25484391>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Dean Ellis <SPAN =
dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"http://us.mc1101.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dde=
angellis@yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:deange=
llis@yahoo.com">deangellis@yahoo.com</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt=
 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size-adjust:=
 inherit" vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I for one have no problem with a mounted Earth mage casting...</DIV></=
TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>Interesting.<BR><BR>20.1 "A practitioner of this College is consid=
ered in contact with the earth if they are in contact with an item which is=
, itself, rooted in the earth (tree, plant, foundation of a house, etc.). T=
hey would not be in contact with earth if they were in the air or in water =
where they could not touch bottom, or if they were atop a piece of furnitur=
e or an animal as these are not rooted in the ground. An Adept in a person=
=E2=80=99s arms is not in contact with the earth."<BR><BR><BR>While we can =
/should discuss the amount of earth needed for contact, the one clear rule =
that does appear to be there at the moment is that if you lift an earth mag=
e off the ground then they cannot cast.&nbsp; (I've always assumed this was=
 a reference to Antaeus (Greek myth), who was massively strong while in con=
tact with the earth.&nbsp; Heracles ended up holding him off the earth to b=
reak his power (and then squished him)).<BR><BR>I would have thought horses
 would be out for earth mages casting... as would standing on a chair, etc.=
<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A      
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SubjectRe: [dq] How much rock is earth?
FromMartin Dickson
DateFri, 13 Nov 2009 12:54:22 +1300
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On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Dean Ellis <deangellis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> You are absolutely right in saying that my take on the Earth mage
> restriction is at odds with the exact wording in the rulebook, and I do
> apologise for that.
>

No apology necessary, I just thought it interesting that we were discussing
what people saw as grey areas and your post added in the situation where
what I thought to be the clear bits were perhaps not universally agreed.



> As a background, I have never really agreed with the rulebook in this
> regard, so you will just have to consider me a rogue GM :-)
>

I'm very happy to consider you as a rogue GM.... you guys should really get
some badass black hats or something...   :)



>
>    - We have a college dedicated to earth based magics, which covers
>    earth, plants and animals, and yet the latter is not "earthy" enough to be
>    considered a bond when in contact. In my opinion the "cannot cast while
>    riding a horse/other ground based animal" restriction contradicts any
>    reasoning for including ground animal based magics in the college
>
> Matter of degree perhaps -- earth is primary, plants secondary, animals
tertiary  Earth mage standing on ground casting at horse, OK. Earth mage
sitting on horse casting at horse, not OK.  (my interpretation).



>
>    - I have never understood the deliniation that says that I can stand on
>    a plank as part of the 1st floor of a house and be able to cast, but if I
>    put the same plank on the ground by itself and stand on it, I cannot
>    Ahhh, I hear you say, "of course an Earth mage can cast while standing
>    on a single plank lying on the ground", but according to the rules, the
>    answer should be no, and if you do allow such, then why not a plank on 4
>    short legs, otherwise known as a chair.
>
> Yep, that does start to get pretty grey and murky.


>    - Having said that, I do not force that interpretation onto Earth mages
>    on my game...
>
> You don't force the players to conform to your will?!  Give back that rogue
GM hat!  :)

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Dean Ellis <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:deangellis@yahoo.com">deangellis@yahoo=
.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"bo=
rder-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding=
-left: 1ex;">
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td styl=
e=3D"font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font=
-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjus=
t: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top">
<div>You are absolutely right in saying that my take on the Earth mage rest=
riction is at odds with the exact wording in the rulebook, and I do apologi=
se for that.</div></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div><br>No apolog=
y necessary, I just thought it interesting that we were discussing what peo=
ple saw as grey areas and your post added in the situation where what I tho=
ught to be the clear bits were perhaps not universally agreed.<br>
<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px so=
lid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><tab=
le border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td style=3D=
"font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-wei=
ght: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: i=
nherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top">

<div>As a background, I have never really agreed with the rulebook in this =
regard, so you will just have to consider me a rogue GM :-)</div></td></tr>=
</tbody></table></blockquote><div><br>I&#39;m very happy to consider you as=
 a rogue GM.... you guys should really get some badass black hats or someth=
ing...=A0=A0 :)<br>
<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px so=
lid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><tab=
le border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td style=3D=
"font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-wei=
ght: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: i=
nherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top">
<ul>
<li>We have a college dedicated to earth based magics, which covers earth, =
plants and animals, and yet the latter is not &quot;earthy&quot; enough to =
be considered a bond when in contact. In my opinion the &quot;cannot cast w=
hile riding a horse/other ground based animal&quot; restriction contradicts=
 any reasoning for including ground animal based magics in the college</li>
</ul></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div>Matter of degree perhaps -=
- earth is primary, plants secondary, animals tertiary=A0 Earth mage standi=
ng on ground casting at horse, OK. Earth mage sitting on horse casting at h=
orse, not OK.=A0 (my interpretation).<br>
<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px so=
lid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><tab=
le border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td style=3D=
"font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-wei=
ght: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: i=
nherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top">
<ul>
<li>I have never understood the deliniation that says that I can stand on a=
 plank as part of the 1st floor of a house and be able to cast, but if I pu=
t the same plank on the ground by itself and stand on it, I cannot<br>
Ahhh, I hear you say, &quot;of course an Earth mage can cast while standing=
 on a single plank lying on the ground&quot;, but according to the rules, t=
he answer should be no, and if you do allow such, then why not a plank on 4=
 short legs, otherwise known as a chair.<br>
</li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div>Yep, that does start =
to get pretty grey and murky.<br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=
.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td styl=
e=3D"font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font=
-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjus=
t: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top">
<ul><li>Having said that, I do not force that interpretation onto Earth mag=
es on my game...</li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div>You d=
on&#39;t force the players to conform to your will?!=A0 Give back that rogu=
e GM hat!=A0 :)<br>
</div></div>

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