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I have just seen how Elementals are to be changed in the new ruleset.
People are, of course, entitled to run their games however they choose, but
I will not be using these rules in my game. In any DQ game I run, an
elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual with an EN value higher
than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the original rules. Exceptions
may be made for people who have quested for and acquired special refinements
to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that would depend on the nature of
the refinement.

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<div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I have just seen how Elementals are to be=
 changed in the new ruleset.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Georgia">People are, of course, entitled to run their ga=
mes however they choose, but I will not be using these rules in my game. In=
=A0any DQ=A0game I run, an elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual=
 with an EN value higher than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the o=
riginal rules. Exceptions may be made for people who have quested for and a=
cquired special refinements to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that =
would depend on the nature of the refinement.</font></div>

--00c09f88d2f7da78d50488dd83d8--


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Having just checked, the potential combined FT and EN of Air and Water
Elementals hasn't changed since the 2001 rules edition, which is as
far back as my electronic copies go.

To quickly recap, the possible combined FT and EN of Elementals is as follows:
Air: 15 (+15 / Rank)
Earth: 15 (+5 / Rank)
Fire: 15 (+5 / Rank)
Ice: 15 (+6 / Rank)
Water: 15 (+15 / Rank)

I propose that the equations for Air and Water are a transcription
error (that hasn't been noticed until now) and that they be amended to
be 15 (+6 / Rank) in both cases. This brings them into line with Ice
and the maximum possible Statistics in the Beastiary. Earth and Fire
need not be changed.

TTFN, Struan


On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:21, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have just seen how Elementals are to be changed in the new ruleset.
> People are, of course, entitled to run their games however they choose, but
> I will not be using these rules in my game. In any DQ game I run, an
> elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual with an EN value higher
> than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the original rules. Exceptions
> may be made for people who have quested for and acquired special refinements
> to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that would depend on the nature of
> the refinement.


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I researched this when I put forward this proposal, and if memory serves, t=
he original rules going back 20 years actually gave the rituals 15+15 even =
back then.=A0 So it's Fire, Ice (& maybe Earth) that have lower values than=
 original I believe.

If someone can quote the original rules it'd be appreciated.

However the decision was made not to touch the rituals endurance and fatigu=
e values as part of the change to abilities.=A0 If it wants to go through a=
s a separate vote that's fine, but leaving the values as is wasn't an overs=
ight on the current change.

From Bernard Hoggins
=0Anevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk

--- On Sun, 13/6/10, Struan Judd <struan@scifi.geek.nz> wrote:

From: Struan Judd <struan@scifi.geek.nz>
Subject: Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Received: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 12:02 PM

Having just checked, the potential combined FT and EN of Air and Water
Elementals hasn't changed since the 2001 rules edition, which is as
far back as my electronic copies go.

To quickly recap, the possible combined FT and EN of Elementals is as follo=
ws:
Air: 15 (+15 / Rank)
Earth: 15 (+5 / Rank)
Fire: 15 (+5 / Rank)
Ice: 15 (+6 / Rank)
Water: 15 (+15 / Rank)

I propose that the equations for Air and Water are a transcription
error (that hasn't been noticed until now) and that they be amended to
be 15 (+6 / Rank) in both cases. This brings them into line with Ice
and the maximum possible Statistics in the Beastiary. Earth and Fire
need not be changed.

TTFN, Struan


On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:21, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have just seen how Elementals are to be changed in the new ruleset.
> People are, of course, entitled to run their games however they choose, b=
ut
> I will not be using these rules in my game. In=A0any DQ=A0game I run, an
> elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual with an EN value higher
> than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the original rules. Exceptio=
ns
> may be made for people who have quested for and acquired special refineme=
nts
> to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that would depend on the nature=
 of
> the refinement.


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
=0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">I researched this when I put forward this pro=
posal, and if memory serves, the original rules going back 20 years actuall=
y gave the rituals 15+15 even back then.&nbsp; So it's Fire, Ice (&amp; may=
be Earth) that have lower values than original I believe.<br><br>If someone=
 can quote the original rules it'd be appreciated.<br><br>However the decis=
ion was made not to touch the rituals endurance and fatigue values as part =
of the change to abilities.&nbsp; If it wants to go through as a separate v=
ote that's fine, but leaving the values as is wasn't an oversight on the cu=
rrent change.<br><br>From Bernard Hoggins<br>=0Anevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<br><br=
>--- On <b>Sun, 13/6/10, Struan Judd <i>&lt;struan@scifi.geek.nz&gt;</i></b=
> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); m=
argin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Struan Judd &lt;struan@scifi=
.geek.nz&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook<br>To: dq@=
dq.sf.org.nz<br>Received: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 12:02 PM<br><br><div class=
=3D"plainMail">Having just checked, the potential combined FT and EN of Air=
 and Water<br>Elementals hasn't changed since the 2001 rules edition, which=
 is as<br>far back as my electronic copies go.<br><br>To quickly recap, the=
 possible combined FT and EN of Elementals is as follows:<br>Air: 15 (+15 /=
 Rank)<br>Earth: 15 (+5 / Rank)<br>Fire: 15 (+5 / Rank)<br>Ice: 15 (+6 / Ra=
nk)<br>Water: 15 (+15 / Rank)<br><br>I propose that the equations for Air a=
nd Water are a transcription<br>error (that hasn't been noticed until now) =
and that they be amended to<br>be 15 (+6 /
 Rank) in both cases. This brings them into line with Ice<br>and the maximu=
m possible Statistics in the Beastiary. Earth and Fire<br>need not be chang=
ed.<br><br>TTFN, Struan<br><br><br>On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:21, Jim Arona=
 &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Djim=
.arona@gmail.com">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; I have just se=
en how Elementals are to be changed in the new ruleset.<br>&gt; People are,=
 of course, entitled to run their games however they choose, but<br>&gt; I =
will not be using these rules in my game. In&nbsp;any DQ&nbsp;game I run, a=
n<br>&gt; elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual with an EN value=
 higher<br>&gt; than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the original r=
ules. Exceptions<br>&gt; may be made for people who have quested for and ac=
quired special refinements<br>&gt; to their spells or rituals, but I suppos=
e that would depend on the nature of<br>&gt; the refinement.<br><br><br>--
 to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz"=
 href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz<=
/a> --<br></div></blockquote></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A      &nbsp;
--0-366222958-1276387741=:9661--


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The rule book originally gave them 15+15 per Rank in the Ritual, and another
formula in the spell. I am referring to the original listing in the
summonable section of the bestiary, to wit, that any elemental has an EN
range of 5-50, and 15-85. In other words, after about Rank 8 you can't add
more EN or FT to the elemental, although their special abilities get
increased.

On 13 June 2010 12:09, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>   I researched this when I put forward this proposal, and if memory
> serves, the original rules going back 20 years actually gave the rituals
> 15+15 even back then.  So it's Fire, Ice (& maybe Earth) that have lower
> values than original I believe.
>
> If someone can quote the original rules it'd be appreciated.
>
> However the decision was made not to touch the rituals endurance and
> fatigue values as part of the change to abilities.  If it wants to go
> through as a separate vote that's fine, but leaving the values as is wasn't
> an oversight on the current change.
>
> From Bernard Hoggins
> nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk
>
> --- On *Sun, 13/6/10, Struan Judd <struan@scifi.geek.nz>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Struan Judd <struan@scifi.geek.nz>
> Subject: Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Received: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 12:02 PM
>
>
> Having just checked, the potential combined FT and EN of Air and Water
> Elementals hasn't changed since the 2001 rules edition, which is as
> far back as my electronic copies go.
>
> To quickly recap, the possible combined FT and EN of Elementals is as
> follows:
> Air: 15 (+15 / Rank)
> Earth: 15 (+5 / Rank)
> Fire: 15 (+5 / Rank)
> Ice: 15 (+6 / Rank)
> Water: 15 (+15 / Rank)
>
> I propose that the equations for Air and Water are a transcription
> error (that hasn't been noticed until now) and that they be amended to
> be 15 (+6 / Rank) in both cases. This brings them into line with Ice
> and the maximum possible Statistics in the Beastiary. Earth and Fire
> need not be changed.
>
> TTFN, Struan
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:21, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=jim.arona@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > I have just seen how Elementals are to be changed in the new ruleset.
> > People are, of course, entitled to run their games however they choose,
> but
> > I will not be using these rules in my game. In any DQ game I run, an
> > elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual with an EN value higher
> > than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the original rules.
> Exceptions
> > may be made for people who have quested for and acquired special
> refinements
> > to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that would depend on the nature
> of
> > the refinement.
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz<http://mc/compose?to=dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz>--
>
>
>

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<font face=3D"georgia,serif">The rule book originally gave them 15+15 per R=
ank in the Ritual, and another formula in the spell. I am referring to the =
original listing in the summonable section of the bestiary, to wit, that an=
y elemental has an EN range of 5-50, and 15-85. In other words, after about=
 Rank 8 you can&#39;t add more EN or FT to the elemental, although their sp=
ecial abilities get increased.<br>
</font><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 June 2010 12:09, Bernard Hoggins <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">I researched this when I put forward this proposal, and =
if memory serves, the original rules going back 20 years actually gave the =
rituals 15+15 even back then.=A0 So it&#39;s Fire, Ice (&amp; maybe Earth) =
that have lower values than original I believe.<br>
<br>If someone can quote the original rules it&#39;d be appreciated.<br><br=
>However the decision was made not to touch the rituals endurance and fatig=
ue values as part of the change to abilities.=A0 If it wants to go through =
as a separate vote that&#39;s fine, but leaving the values as is wasn&#39;t=
 an oversight on the current change.<br>
<br>From Bernard Hoggins<br><a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a><br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 13/6/10, Struan =
Judd <i>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:struan@scifi.geek.nz" target=3D"_blank">strua=
n@scifi.geek.nz</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br>

<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From: Struan Judd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:struan@sc=
ifi.geek.nz" target=3D"_blank">struan@scifi.geek.nz</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re:=
 [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a=
><br>Received: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 12:02 PM=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br><br>
<div>Having just checked, the potential combined FT and EN of Air and Water=
<br>Elementals hasn&#39;t changed since the 2001 rules edition, which is as=
<br>far back as my electronic copies go.<br><br>To quickly recap, the possi=
ble combined FT and EN of Elementals is as follows:<br>
Air: 15 (+15 / Rank)<br>Earth: 15 (+5 / Rank)<br>Fire: 15 (+5 / Rank)<br>Ic=
e: 15 (+6 / Rank)<br>Water: 15 (+15 / Rank)<br><br>I propose that the equat=
ions for Air and Water are a transcription<br>error (that hasn&#39;t been n=
oticed until now) and that they be amended to<br>
be 15 (+6 / Rank) in both cases. This brings them into line with Ice<br>and=
 the maximum possible Statistics in the Beastiary. Earth and Fire<br>need n=
ot be changed.<br><br>TTFN, Struan<br><br><br>On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:21=
, Jim Arona &lt;<a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Djim.arona@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I have just seen how Elementals are to be changed in the new ruleset.<=
br>&gt; People are, of course, entitled to run their games however they cho=
ose, but<br>&gt; I will not be using these rules in my game. In=A0any DQ=A0=
game I run, an<br>
&gt; elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual with an EN value high=
er<br>&gt; than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the original rules.=
 Exceptions<br>&gt; may be made for people who have quested for and acquire=
d special refinements<br>
&gt; to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that would depend on the nat=
ure of<br>&gt; the refinement.<br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<=
a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank"=
>dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br>
</div></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br>=A0</blockquot=
e></div><br>

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Errr...That should be an EN range of 5-50 and a FT range of 10-85

On 13 June 2010 12:15, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote:

> The rule book originally gave them 15+15 per Rank in the Ritual, and
> another formula in the spell. I am referring to the original listing in the
> summonable section of the bestiary, to wit, that any elemental has an EN
> range of 5-50, and 15-85. In other words, after about Rank 8 you can't add
> more EN or FT to the elemental, although their special abilities get
> increased.
>
> On 13 June 2010 12:09, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>   I researched this when I put forward this proposal, and if memory
>> serves, the original rules going back 20 years actually gave the rituals
>> 15+15 even back then.  So it's Fire, Ice (& maybe Earth) that have lower
>> values than original I believe.
>>
>> If someone can quote the original rules it'd be appreciated.
>>
>> However the decision was made not to touch the rituals endurance and
>> fatigue values as part of the change to abilities.  If it wants to go
>> through as a separate vote that's fine, but leaving the values as is wasn't
>> an oversight on the current change.
>>
>> From Bernard Hoggins
>> nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk
>>
>> --- On *Sun, 13/6/10, Struan Judd <struan@scifi.geek.nz>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Struan Judd <struan@scifi.geek.nz>
>> Subject: Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook
>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
>> Received: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 12:02 PM
>>
>>
>> Having just checked, the potential combined FT and EN of Air and Water
>> Elementals hasn't changed since the 2001 rules edition, which is as
>> far back as my electronic copies go.
>>
>> To quickly recap, the possible combined FT and EN of Elementals is as
>> follows:
>> Air: 15 (+15 / Rank)
>> Earth: 15 (+5 / Rank)
>> Fire: 15 (+5 / Rank)
>> Ice: 15 (+6 / Rank)
>> Water: 15 (+15 / Rank)
>>
>> I propose that the equations for Air and Water are a transcription
>> error (that hasn't been noticed until now) and that they be amended to
>> be 15 (+6 / Rank) in both cases. This brings them into line with Ice
>> and the maximum possible Statistics in the Beastiary. Earth and Fire
>> need not be changed.
>>
>> TTFN, Struan
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:21, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=jim.arona@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> > I have just seen how Elementals are to be changed in the new ruleset.
>> > People are, of course, entitled to run their games however they choose,
>> but
>> > I will not be using these rules in my game. In any DQ game I run, an
>> > elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual with an EN value higher
>> > than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the original rules.
>> Exceptions
>> > may be made for people who have quested for and acquired special
>> refinements
>> > to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that would depend on the
>> nature of
>> > the refinement.
>>
>>
>> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz<http://mc/compose?to=dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz>--
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

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<font face=3D"georgia,serif">Errr...That should be an EN range of 5-50 and =
a=A0FT range of 10-85<br></font><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 June 2010 12:15, Jim Arona <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><font face=3D"georgia,serif">The=
 rule book originally gave them 15+15 per Rank in the Ritual, and another f=
ormula in the spell. I am referring to the original listing in the summonab=
le section of the bestiary, to wit, that any elemental has an EN range of 5=
-50, and 15-85. In other words, after about Rank 8 you can&#39;t add more E=
N or FT to the elemental, although their special abilities get increased.<b=
r>
</font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 June 2010 12:09, Bernard Hoggins <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">nevy=
n0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">I researched this when I put forward this proposal, and =
if memory serves, the original rules going back 20 years actually gave the =
rituals 15+15 even back then.=A0 So it&#39;s Fire, Ice (&amp; maybe Earth) =
that have lower values than original I believe.<br>
<br>If someone can quote the original rules it&#39;d be appreciated.<br><br=
>However the decision was made not to touch the rituals endurance and fatig=
ue values as part of the change to abilities.=A0 If it wants to go through =
as a separate vote that&#39;s fine, but leaving the values as is wasn&#39;t=
 an oversight on the current change.<br>
<br>From Bernard Hoggins<br><a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a><br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 13/6/10, Struan =
Judd <i>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:struan@scifi.geek.nz" target=3D"_blank">strua=
n@scifi.geek.nz</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br>

<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From: Struan Judd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:struan@sc=
ifi.geek.nz" target=3D"_blank">struan@scifi.geek.nz</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re:=
 [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a=
><br>Received: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 12:02 PM=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br><br>
<div>Having just checked, the potential combined FT and EN of Air and Water=
<br>Elementals hasn&#39;t changed since the 2001 rules edition, which is as=
<br>far back as my electronic copies go.<br><br>To quickly recap, the possi=
ble combined FT and EN of Elementals is as follows:<br>
Air: 15 (+15 / Rank)<br>Earth: 15 (+5 / Rank)<br>Fire: 15 (+5 / Rank)<br>Ic=
e: 15 (+6 / Rank)<br>Water: 15 (+15 / Rank)<br><br>I propose that the equat=
ions for Air and Water are a transcription<br>error (that hasn&#39;t been n=
oticed until now) and that they be amended to<br>
be 15 (+6 / Rank) in both cases. This brings them into line with Ice<br>and=
 the maximum possible Statistics in the Beastiary. Earth and Fire<br>need n=
ot be changed.<br><br>TTFN, Struan<br><br><br>On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:21=
, Jim Arona &lt;<a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Djim.arona@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I have just seen how Elementals are to be changed in the new ruleset.<=
br>&gt; People are, of course, entitled to run their games however they cho=
ose, but<br>&gt; I will not be using these rules in my game. In=A0any DQ=A0=
game I run, an<br>
&gt; elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual with an EN value high=
er<br>&gt; than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the original rules.=
 Exceptions<br>&gt; may be made for people who have quested for and acquire=
d special refinements<br>
&gt; to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that would depend on the nat=
ure of<br>&gt; the refinement.<br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<=
a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank"=
>dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br>
</div></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br>=A0</blockquot=
e></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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That listing appears to have been lost somewhere along the way.=A0 The 2005=
 Bestiary doesn't have it listed.

My intention wasn't to change any rules relating to Endurance/Fatigue value=
s other than distributing them by ratio, so if someone could research and f=
ind out when that change occurred it might be helpful.

From Bernard Hoggins
=0Anevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk

--- On Sun, 13/6/10, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Received: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 12:16 PM

Errr...That should be an EN range of 5-50 and a=A0FT range of 10-85

=0AOn 13 June 2010 12:15, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote:
=0AThe rule book originally gave them 15+15 per Rank in the Ritual, and ano=
ther formula in the spell. I am referring to the original listing in the su=
mmonable section of the bestiary, to wit, that any elemental has an EN rang=
e of 5-50, and 15-85. In other words, after about Rank 8 you can't add more=
 EN or FT to the elemental, although their special abilities get increased.
=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0AOn 13 June 2010 12:09, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI researched this when I put forward this proposal, and if m=
emory serves, the original rules going back 20 years actually gave the ritu=
als 15+15 even back then.=A0 So it's Fire, Ice (& maybe Earth) that have lo=
wer values than original I believe.
=0A
If someone can quote the original rules it'd be appreciated.

However the decision was made not to touch the rituals endurance and fatigu=
e values as part of the change to abilities.=A0 If it wants to go through a=
s a separate vote that's fine, but leaving the values as is wasn't an overs=
ight on the current change.
=0A
From Bernard Hoggins
nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk

--- On Sun, 13/6/10, Struan Judd <struan@scifi.geek.nz> wrote:
=0A=0A
From: Struan Judd <struan@scifi.geek.nz>
Subject: Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook
=0ATo: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Received: Sunday, 13 June, 2010, 12:02 PM =0A=0A=0A

=0AHaving just checked, the potential combined FT and EN of Air and Water
Elementals hasn't changed since the 2001 rules edition, which is as
far back as my electronic copies go.

To quickly recap, the possible combined FT and EN of Elementals is as follo=
ws:
=0AAir: 15 (+15 / Rank)
Earth: 15 (+5 / Rank)
Fire: 15 (+5 / Rank)
Ice: 15 (+6 / Rank)
Water: 15 (+15 / Rank)

I propose that the equations for Air and Water are a transcription
error (that hasn't been noticed until now) and that they be amended to
=0Abe 15 (+6 / Rank) in both cases. This brings them into line with Ice
and the maximum possible Statistics in the Beastiary. Earth and Fire
need not be changed.

TTFN, Struan


On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:21, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote:
=0A> I have just seen how Elementals are to be changed in the new ruleset.
> People are, of course, entitled to run their games however they choose, b=
ut
> I will not be using these rules in my game. In=A0any DQ=A0game I run, an
=0A> elemental may not be summoned by spell or ritual with an EN value high=
er
> than 50 or a FT value higher than 85, as per the original rules. Exceptio=
ns
> may be made for people who have quested for and acquired special refineme=
nts
=0A> to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that would depend on the nat=
ure of
> the refinement.


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
=0A
=A0

=0A=0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">That listing appears to have been lost somewh=
ere along the way.&nbsp; The 2005 Bestiary doesn't have it listed.<br><br>M=
y intention wasn't to change any rules relating to Endurance/Fatigue values=
 other than distributing them by ratio, so if someone could research and fi=
nd out when that change occurred it might be helpful.<br><br>From Bernard H=
oggins<br>=0Anevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 13/6/10, Jim Arona =
<i>&lt;jim.arona@gmail.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"borde=
r-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><=
br>From: Jim Arona &lt;jim.arona@gmail.com&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [dq] Element=
als as per new Rulebook<br>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>Received: Sunday, 13 June=
, 2010, 12:16 PM<br><br><div id=3D"yiv92286292"><font face=3D"georgia,serif=
">Errr...That should be an EN range of 5-50 and a&nbsp;FT range of 10-85<br=
></font><br>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 June 2010 12:15, Jim Arona =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Djim.arona@gmail.com">jim.a=
rona@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=0A<blockquote style=3D"border-left=
: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1e=
x;" class=3D"gmail_quote"><font face=3D"georgia,serif">The rule book origin=
ally gave them 15+15 per Rank in the Ritual, and another formula in the spe=
ll. I am referring to the original listing in the summonable section of the=
 bestiary, to wit, that any elemental has an EN range of 5-50, and 15-85. I=
n other words, after about Rank 8 you can't add more EN or FT to the elemen=
tal, although their special abilities get increased.<br>=0A</font>=0A<div>=
=0A<div></div>=0A<div class=3D"h5"><br>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 =
June 2010 12:09, Bernard Hoggins <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compo=
se?to=3Dnevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
>=0A<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin:=
 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote">=0A<table bor=
der=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0">=0A<tbody>=0A<tr>=0A<td valig=
n=3D"top">I researched this when I put forward this proposal, and if memory=
 serves, the original rules going back 20 years actually gave the rituals 1=
5+15 even back then.&nbsp; So it's Fire, Ice (&amp; maybe Earth) that have =
lower values than original I believe.<br>=0A<br>If someone can quote the or=
iginal rules it'd be appreciated.<br><br>However the decision was made not =
to touch the rituals endurance and fatigue values as part of the change to =
abilities.&nbsp; If it wants to go through as a separate vote that's fine, =
but leaving the values as is wasn't an oversight on the current change.<br>=
=0A<br>From Bernard Hoggins<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:nevyn0=
ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dnevyn0ad@yahoo.c=
o.uk">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a><br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 13/6/10, Struan Judd <=
i>&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:struan@scifi.geek.nz" target=3D=
"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dstruan@scifi.geek.nz">struan@scifi.geek.n=
z</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br>=0A=0A<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px sol=
id rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><br>From: Struan=
 Judd &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:struan@scifi.geek.nz" targe=
t=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dstruan@scifi.geek.nz">struan@scifi.ge=
ek.nz</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook<br>=0ATo:=
 <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank" h=
ref=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>Received: S=
unday, 13 June, 2010, 12:02 PM =0A<div>=0A<div></div>=0A<div><br><br>=0A<di=
v>Having just checked, the potential combined FT and EN of Air and Water<br=
>Elementals hasn't changed since the 2001 rules edition, which is as<br>far=
 back as my electronic copies go.<br><br>To quickly recap, the possible com=
bined FT and EN of Elementals is as follows:<br>=0AAir: 15 (+15 / Rank)<br>=
Earth: 15 (+5 / Rank)<br>Fire: 15 (+5 / Rank)<br>Ice: 15 (+6 / Rank)<br>Wat=
er: 15 (+15 / Rank)<br><br>I propose that the equations for Air and Water a=
re a transcription<br>error (that hasn't been noticed until now) and that t=
hey be amended to<br>=0Abe 15 (+6 / Rank) in both cases. This brings them i=
nto line with Ice<br>and the maximum possible Statistics in the Beastiary. =
Earth and Fire<br>need not be changed.<br><br>TTFN, Struan<br><br><br>On Su=
n, Jun 13, 2010 at 11:21, Jim Arona &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blan=
k" href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Djim.arona@gmail.com">jim.arona@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br>=0A&gt; I have just seen how Elementals are to be changed=
 in the new ruleset.<br>&gt; People are, of course, entitled to run their g=
ames however they choose, but<br>&gt; I will not be using these rules in my=
 game. In&nbsp;any DQ&nbsp;game I run, an<br>=0A&gt; elemental may not be s=
ummoned by spell or ritual with an EN value higher<br>&gt; than 50 or a FT =
value higher than 85, as per the original rules. Exceptions<br>&gt; may be =
made for people who have quested for and acquired special refinements<br>=
=0A&gt; to their spells or rituals, but I suppose that would depend on the =
nature of<br>&gt; the refinement.<br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe notify mailt=
o:<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-r=
equest@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br>=0A</div></div></div=
></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br>&nbsp;</blockquote></div><br></=
div></div></blockquote></div><br>=0A</div></blockquote></td></tr></table><b=
r>=0A=0A=0A=0A      &nbsp;
--0-1357292923-1276400577=:92988--


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The new version of the rules is available from here:

http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/images/8/89/Rules2010.zip

Replacement Bestiary pages for the new Elementals:
http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/images/9/90/Summonables_2010.pdf

One page per elemental with all relevant bestiary rules in one place:
http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/images/9/92/Elementals_2010.pdf


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--0016363b8c84b9430a0488e35932
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I would like Miles Jackson's email address. Can someone please forward it to
me.

--0016363b8c84b9430a0488e35932
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<font face="georgia,serif">I would like Miles Jackson&#39;s email address. Can someone please forward it to me.</font>

--0016363b8c84b9430a0488e35932--


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--0016363b8c84b9430a0488e35932
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I would like Miles Jackson's email address. Can someone please forward it to
me.

--0016363b8c84b9430a0488e35932
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<font face="georgia,serif">I would like Miles Jackson&#39;s email address. Can someone please forward it to me.</font>

--0016363b8c84b9430a0488e35932--


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The latest Seagate Times is avaliable

It's at: http://dq.sf.org.nz/library/sgt67.pdf and is also linked from 
the wiki


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Jim Jim, no point in hiding it any more. Its clear to me that Jim, Looooves
Lath with her Air Elemental :-)

Kind regards,
Jono

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<div><div>Jim Jim, no point in hiding it=A0any more.=A0Its clear to me that=
 Jim, Looooves Lath with her Air Elemental :-)</div></div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Kind regards,</div><div>Jono</div>

--0016362835ca49329f0488e6e678--


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--00c09f8996d7f6e8a10488e71352
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That woman has unnatural lusts.

On 13 June 2010 22:33, Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Jim Jim, no point in hiding it any more. Its clear to me that Jim,
> Looooves Lath with her Air Elemental :-)
>
> Kind regards,
> Jono
>

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<font face=3D"georgia,serif">That woman has unnatural lusts.<br></font><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 June 2010 22:33, Jonathan Bean <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>Jim Jim, no point in hiding it=A0any more.=A0Its clear to me that Jim,=
 Looooves Lath with her Air Elemental :-)</div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div>Jono</div></blockquote></div><br>

--00c09f8996d7f6e8a10488e71352--


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