| Subject | Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook |
|---|---|
| From | Jonathan Bean |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:07:25 +1200 |
--0016363b9208ae9d540488fed8ac Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Struan wrote: > Two changes to the Initial Notes are probably required to remove ambiguity: > a) Add " Neither statistic may be greater than the maximum listed in the > specific Elemental's Bestiary entry." after "An Elementals Fatigue & > Endurance from summoning are to be split approximately to the ratio's given > in the bestiary, of 2 Endurance:3 Fatigue." > Why are you changing this from what is currently in play? The rules have been; Listings for Elementals in the Bestiary are the stats on their own plain or natural encountered (wild elemental's) At the same time an adept with skills in spells or rituals allow the adept to summon an elemental which have different stats to those in the Bestiary. You are actively moving away from this. Why? I don't see this as an error at all. It has been pretty clear for a long time. When other GMs have asked at gods meetings about this it was discussed / explained. It was not seen as an error or noted at broken. People/GMs can of coarse decide the want a change and that's all good. Bernard aimed to not changing this section as far as the stats ( EN & Ft) and leave them in the spells and rituals was discussed at a gods meeting some time ago. Kind regards, Jonathan Bean H: +64 9 828 2959 M: +64 21 917 173 G: jonobean@gmail.com --0016363b9208ae9d540488fed8ac Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <br>Struan wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_= quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1= ex;"><div><div class=3D"h5"> Two changes to the Initial Notes are probably required to remove ambiguity:= <br> a) Add " Neither statistic may be greater than the maximum listed in t= he specific Elemental's Bestiary entry." after "An Elementals= Fatigue & Endurance from summoning are to be split approximately to th= e ratio's given in the bestiary, of 2 Endurance:3 Fatigue."<br> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Why are you changing this from= what is currently in play?</div><div><br></div><div>The rules have been; L= istings for Elementals in the=A0Bestiary=A0are the stats on their own plain= or natural=A0encountered (wild=A0elemental's)=A0=A0</div> <div>At the same time an adept with skills in spells or rituals allow the= =A0adept=A0to summon an elemental which have different stats to those in th= e=A0Bestiary.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>You are actively moving away from= this.=A0Why?=A0</div> <div><br></div><div>I don't see this as an error at all. It has been pr= etty clear for a long time. When other GMs have asked at gods meetings abou= t this it was discussed / explained. It was not seen as an error or noted a= t broken.</div> <div><br></div><div>People/GMs can of=A0coarse decide the want a change and= that's all good.=A0</div><div>Bernard aimed to not changing this secti= on as far as the stats ( EN & Ft) and leave them in the spells and ritu= als was discussed at a gods meeting some time ago.</div> <div>=A0</div></div><div><br></div>Kind regards,<br><br>Jonathan Bean<br>H:= +64 9 828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail= .com">jonobean@gmail.com</a><br> --0016363b9208ae9d540488fed8ac-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jonathan Bean |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:59:57 +1200 |
--001485f899729a62fb0488ff9419 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please explain the impact of this in regards to counter spells cast on an area given the following: 1)) Protection of your party standing in a counterspell Vrs Elementals and allowing the Fire mage (party member) to cast? A: I am assuming that the Fire Mage would not be able to cast. 2) How would this impact on Phantasm, Specitral Warriors, and Nightmares. A: The balance will change and method of protection/prevention. Nightmares will increase in value. So I get to cast a single elemental counter under all the mages and turn of= f both the enemy Fire, Water and Air Mage at the same time? The number of actions required to protect a party of group is decreased, allowing more time to cast more of the name Namer attack spells. This will lead to more advanced trench warfare with counterspells denying areas of safety from casters, magics and elementals / phantasm's etc. As far as logistics go for the namer this change is minor as we already tak= e into account race to BC for a counterspell so our character sheets are large. Lowering the number of counterspells options will fundamentally change the flavour of Namer. This isn't to say that's a good or bad thing, but it will change. I fully expect it will change the dynamics of combat & magic with fewer counter spells at higher ranks with more range allowing for Namers (and their guard) to dominate small group encounters. As far as items go a truly large number of people have items which will nee= d to be looked at for balance. Jono On 14 June 2010 17:09, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank > non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and= b) > if you already have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to sp= end > elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend = on > magic. > > On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: > >> Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to >> see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half >> effectiveness if you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges = learnt >> with Namer College). >> >> >> >> Part of WordSmith=92s character intro is a >> >> =93I=92m an Actual Namer.=94 >> >> =93So where=92s the hand-and-a-half?=94 >> >> =93Actual, not =91Real=92. Try not to die, I don=92t want to have to car= ry you=94. >> >> [:-[)] >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Errol >> >> >> >> *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf >> Of *R Mansfield >> >> *Sent:* Monday, 14 June 2010 3:20 p.m. >> >> *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz >> *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal >> >> >> >> Yes Celestial is in the elemental branch. >> >> >> >> As for EP sinks this hugely reduces the drainage hole for Namers. >> >> I=92d almost like to see the branch counterspells have a higher EM, but = more >> MR or duration. >> >> >> >> I=92d not like to see Namers abilities be overshadowed =96 currently >> counterspells are their contribution to =91power ups=92. But there are = so many >> that it takes ages for them to have a handy selection at a decent rank. >> >> >> >> There are only a couple of pure namers out there and I=92d rather see mo= re >> of them than Namer/fighter combinations (most of the latter seem to be >> lacking on both fronts unless they took namer after years of warrior). >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Rosemary >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf >> Of *Martin Dickson >> >> *Sent:* Monday, 14 June 2010 3:07 p.m. >> *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz >> *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal >> >> >> >> Always keen on EP sinks. :) >> >> >> I'd be keen to see weaker but rankable OOC CS regardless of Namer >> changes. (Whose CS could be gruntier if nothing else). >> >> One note though... Celestial is elemental isn't it? Light and Dark are >> elements... >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> I propose a change to the current counterspell conventions. >> >> For non-Namers, there are two differences. >> >> 1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special >> Knowledge spells >> 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and body >> of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank. >> >> For Namers, the differences are >> >> They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have counterspel= ls >> that affect branches: >> >> 1. Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial, and Entity. This means that the= y >> will have 8 normal counterspells. >> 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body >> of knowledge is 10+1/Rank. >> >> Discuss. >> >> >> > > --=20 Kind regards, Jonathan Bean H: +64 9 828 2959 M: +64 21 917 173 G: jonobean@gmail.com --001485f899729a62fb0488ff9419 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please explain the impact of this in regards to counter spells cast on an a= rea given the following:<div><br></div><div>1)) Protection of your party st= anding in a counterspell Vrs Elementals and allowing the Fire mage (party m= ember) to cast?=A0</div> <div>A: I am assuming that the Fire Mage would not be able to cast.</div><d= iv><br></div><div>2) How would this impact on=A0Phantasm, Specitral Warrior= s, and Nightmares.</div><div>A: The balance will change and method of prote= ction/prevention. Nightmares will increase in value.</div> <div><br></div><div>So I get to cast a single elemental counter under all t= he mages and turn off both the=A0enemy=A0Fire, Water and Air Mage at the sa= me time?</div><div><div><br></div><div><div>The number of actions required = to protect a party of group is decreased, allowing more time to cast more o= f the name Namer attack spells.</div> </div><div><br></div><div>This will lead to more advanced=A0trench=A0warfar= e with counterspells denying areas of safety from casters, magics and eleme= ntals / phantasm's etc.<br><br></div><div>As far as=A0logistics=A0go fo= r the namer this change is minor as we already take into account race to BC= for a counterspell so our character sheets are large.</div> <div><br></div><div>Lowering the number of counterspells options will=A0fun= damentally=A0change the flavour of Namer. This isn't to say that's = a good or bad thing, but it will change.</div><div><br></div><div>I fully e= xpect it will change the=A0dynamics of combat & magic with fewer counte= r spells at higher ranks with more range allowing for Namers (and their gua= rd) to dominate small group encounters.=A0</div> <div><br></div><div>As far as items go a truly large number of people have = items which will need to be looked at for balance.=A0</div><div><br></div><= div>Jono</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 14 June 2010 17:09, Ji= m Arona <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com">jim.ar= ona@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><font face=3D"georgia,serif">The benefit wo= uld be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-standard college= s, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if you already= have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to spend elsewhere. I= t's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend on mag= ic.<br> </font><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol C= avit <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com" tar= get=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> </div><blockquote style=3D"border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.= 8ex;padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"blue" link=3D"blue"> <div><div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Without= commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to see a bene= fit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half effectiveness if y= ou don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer Col= lege).</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">=A0</sp= an></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Part of= WordSmith=92s character intro is a </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">=93I=92= m an Actual Namer.=94 </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">=93So w= here=92s the hand-and-a-half?=94 </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">=93Actu= al, not =91Real=92. Try not to die, I don=92t want to have to carry you=94.= </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">[:-[)]<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">=A0</sp= an></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Cheers<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Errol</= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">=A0</sp= an></p> </div><div> <div style=3D"border-bottom:medium none;border-left:medium none;padding-bot= tom:0cm;padding-left:0cm;padding-right:0cm;border-top:#b5c4df 1pt solid;bor= der-right:medium none;padding-top:3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fro= m:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mail= to:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mail= to:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.s= f.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>R Mansfield</span></p> <div class=3D"im"><br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 3:20 p.m.=20 </div><div> <div></div> <div><br><div class=3D"im"><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" ta= rget=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspel= l proposal</div></div></div> <p></p><p></p></div></div> <div> <div></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">Yes Celestial is in the elemental branch.=A0 </span></p><div class=3D"= im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">As for EP sinks this hugely reduces the drainage hole for Namers.</spa= n></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">I=92d almost like to see the branch counterspells have a higher EM, bu= t more MR or duration.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">I=92d not like to see Namers abilities be overshadowed =96 currently c= ounterspells are their contribution to =91power ups=92.=A0 But there are so= many that it takes ages for them to have a handy selection at a decent ran= k.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">There are only a couple of pure namers out there and I=92d rather see = more of them than Namer/fighter combinations (most of the latter seem to be= lacking on both fronts unless they took namer after years of warrior).=A0 = </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">Regards</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">Rosemary</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">=A0</span></p> </div><div> <div style=3D"text-align:center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><span= lang=3D"EN-US"> <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%"> </span></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:blue;font-size:10pt" lang=3D= "EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:blue;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"E= N-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@= dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D= "_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Dickson</spa= n></p> <div class=3D"im"><br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 3:07 p.m.<br></div><div class=3D"im"><b>T= o:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz= </a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</div><span style=3D"= color:blue" lang=3D"EN-US"></span><p> </p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:blue" lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span>= </p> <p style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:bl= ue" lang=3D"EN-GB">Always keen on EP sinks. :)</span></p><div class=3D"im">= <br><br>I'd be keen to see weaker but rankable OOC CS regardless of Nam= er changes.=A0 (Whose CS could be gruntier if nothing else).<br> <br></div><div class=3D"im">One note though... Celestial is elemental isn&#= 39;t it?=A0 Light and Dark are elements...</div><p></p> <p style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:na= vy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <div><div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 1:25 PM= , Jim Arona <<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ji= m.arona@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:navy;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN= -GB">=A0</span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Georgia', 's= erif';font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">I propose a change to the current = counterspell conventions.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-G= B"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Georgia', 's= erif';font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">For non-Namers, there are two diff= erences. </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></p></= div> </div><ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Georgia', '= serif';font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">Out of college counterspells are = rankable as if they were Special Knowledge spells</span></li><div class=3D"= im"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Georgia', '= serif';font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">The bonus to Magic Resistance wit= h respect to the College and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.</span></li> </div></ol><div class=3D"im"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Georgia', 's= erif';font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">For Namers, the differences are</s= pan></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Georgia', 's= erif';font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">They no longer have college counte= rspells, instead they have counterspells that affect branches:</span></p> </div> </div><ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Georgia', '= serif';font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial= , and Entity. This means that they will have 8 normal=A0counterspells. </sp= an></li> <div class=3D"im"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Georgia', '= serif';font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">The bonus to Magic Resistance wit= h respect to the Branch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank.</span></li></di= v> </ol> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:'Georgia', 's= erif';font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0Discuss.</span></p></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span></p></div></div></div= ></div></blockquote></div><br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Kind regards,<br><br>Jo= nathan Bean<br>H: +64 9 828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mail= to:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a><br> </div></div> --001485f899729a62fb0488ff9419-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 04:27:20 +1200 |
--0016363b8ee2a1bbfd0488fff6a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 15 June 2010 03:59, Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote: > Please explain the impact of this in regards to counter spells cast on an > area given the following: > > 1)) Protection of your party standing in a counterspell Vrs Elementals an= d > allowing the Fire mage (party member) to cast? > A: I am assuming that the Fire Mage would not be able to cast. > Well, so I imagine. > > 2) How would this impact on Phantasm, Specitral Warriors, and Nightmares. > A: The balance will change and method of protection/prevention. Nightmare= s > will increase in value. > Sure. > So I get to cast a single elemental counter under all the mages and turn > off both the enemy Fire, Water and Air Mage at the same time? > > Yes, so I imagine. > The number of actions required to protect a party of group is decreased, > allowing more time to cast more of the name Namer attack spells. > > This will lead to more advanced trench warfare with counterspells denying > areas of safety from casters, magics and elementals / phantasm's etc. > > As far as logistics go for the namer this change is minor as we already > take into account race to BC for a counterspell so our character sheets a= re > large. > > Lowering the number of counterspells options will fundamentally change th= e > flavour of Namer. This isn't to say that's a good or bad thing, but it wi= ll > change. > > I fully expect it will change the dynamics of combat & magic with fewer > counter spells at higher ranks with more range allowing for Namers (and > their guard) to dominate small group encounters. > > As far as items go a truly large number of people have items which will > need to be looked at for balance. > Well, any kind of change means that you may have to change items around somewhat. Or maybe not. > Jono > > On 14 June 2010 17:09, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank >> non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, an= d b) >> if you already have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to s= pend >> elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend= on >> magic. >> >> On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: >> >>> Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like = to >>> see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half >>> effectiveness if you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges= learnt >>> with Namer College). >>> >>> >>> >>> Part of WordSmith=92s character intro is a >>> >>> =93I=92m an Actual Namer.=94 >>> >>> =93So where=92s the hand-and-a-half?=94 >>> >>> =93Actual, not =91Real=92. Try not to die, I don=92t want to have to ca= rry you=94. >>> >>> [:-[)] >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Errol >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf >>> Of *R Mansfield >>> >>> *Sent:* Monday, 14 June 2010 3:20 p.m. >>> >>> *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz >>> *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes Celestial is in the elemental branch. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for EP sinks this hugely reduces the drainage hole for Namers. >>> >>> I=92d almost like to see the branch counterspells have a higher EM, but >>> more MR or duration. >>> >>> >>> >>> I=92d not like to see Namers abilities be overshadowed =96 currently >>> counterspells are their contribution to =91power ups=92. But there are= so many >>> that it takes ages for them to have a handy selection at a decent rank. >>> >>> >>> >>> There are only a couple of pure namers out there and I=92d rather see m= ore >>> of them than Namer/fighter combinations (most of the latter seem to be >>> lacking on both fronts unless they took namer after years of warrior). >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Rosemary >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf >>> Of *Martin Dickson >>> >>> *Sent:* Monday, 14 June 2010 3:07 p.m. >>> *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz >>> *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal >>> >>> >>> >>> Always keen on EP sinks. :) >>> >>> >>> I'd be keen to see weaker but rankable OOC CS regardless of Namer >>> changes. (Whose CS could be gruntier if nothing else). >>> >>> One note though... Celestial is elemental isn't it? Light and Dark are >>> elements... >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> I propose a change to the current counterspell conventions. >>> >>> For non-Namers, there are two differences. >>> >>> 1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special >>> Knowledge spells >>> 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and bod= y >>> of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank. >>> >>> For Namers, the differences are >>> >>> They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have >>> counterspells that affect branches: >>> >>> 1. Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial, and Entity. This means that >>> they will have 8 normal counterspells. >>> 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body >>> of knowledge is 10+1/Rank. >>> >>> Discuss. >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > Kind regards, > > Jonathan Bean > H: +64 9 828 2959 > M: +64 21 917 173 > G: jonobean@gmail.com > --0016363b8ee2a1bbfd0488fff6a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif"><br></font><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 03:59, Jonathan Bean <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>&g= t;</span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Please explain the impact of thi= s in regards to counter spells cast on an area given the following:=20 <div><br></div> <div>1)) Protection of your party standing in a counterspell Vrs Elementals= and allowing the Fire mage (party member) to cast?=A0</div> <div>A: I am assuming that the Fire Mage would not be able to cast.</div></= blockquote> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Well, so I imagine.</font></div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div><br></div> <div>2) How would this impact on=A0Phantasm, Specitral Warriors, and Nightm= ares.</div> <div>A: The balance will change and method of protection/prevention. Nightm= ares will increase in value.<br></div></blockquote> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Sure.</font></div> <div>=A0</div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div>So I get to cast a single elemental counter under all the mages and tu= rn off both the=A0enemy=A0Fire, Water and Air Mage at the same time?</div> <div> <div>=A0</div></div></blockquote> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Yes, so I imagine.</font></div> <div>=A0</div> <div>=A0</div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div> <div> <div>The number of actions required to protect a party of group is decrease= d, allowing more time to cast more of the name Namer attack spells.</div></= div> <div><br></div> <div>This will lead to more advanced=A0trench=A0warfare with counterspells = denying areas of safety from casters, magics and elementals / phantasm'= s etc.<br><br></div> <div>As far as=A0logistics=A0go for the namer this change is minor as we al= ready take into account race to BC for a counterspell so our character shee= ts are large.</div> <div><br></div> <div>Lowering the number of counterspells options will=A0fundamentally=A0ch= ange the flavour of Namer. This isn't to say that's a good or bad t= hing, but it will change.</div> <div><br></div> <div>I fully expect it will change the=A0dynamics of combat & magic wit= h fewer counter spells at higher ranks with more range allowing for Namers = (and their guard) to dominate small group encounters.=A0</div> <div><br></div> <div>As far as items go a truly large number of people have items which wil= l need to be looked at for balance.=A0</div></div></blockquote> <div>=A0</div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Well, any kind of change means that you m= ay have to change items around somewhat. Or maybe not. </font><br></div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div> <div>Jono</div> <div> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 14 June 2010 17:09, Jim Arona <span dir=3D"lt= r"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jim.arona@g= mail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><font face=3D"georgia,serif">The= benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-stand= ard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if = you already have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to spend e= lsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to s= pend on magic.<br> </font><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div>On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"ma= ilto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com" target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com= </a>></span> wrote:<br></div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">With= out commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to see a b= enefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half effectiveness i= f you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer = College).</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Part= of WordSmith=92s character intro is a </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=93I= =92m an Actual Namer.=94 </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=93S= o where=92s the hand-and-a-half?=94 </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=93A= ctual, not =91Real=92. Try not to die, I don=92t want to have to carry you= =94. </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">[:-[= )]</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Chee= rs</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Erro= l</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div> <div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>R Mansfield</span></p> <div><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 3:20 p.m. </div> <div> <div></div> <div><br> <div><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.= sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</div></div>= </div> <p></p> <p></p></div></div> <div> <div></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">Yes Celestial is in the elemental branch.=A0 </span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">As for EP sinks this hugely reduces the drainage hole for Namers.</= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">I=92d almost like to see the branch counterspells have a higher EM,= but more MR or duration.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">I=92d not like to see Namers abilities be overshadowed =96 currentl= y counterspells are their contribution to =91power ups=92.=A0 But there are= so many that it takes ages for them to have a handy selection at a decent = rank.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">There are only a couple of pure namers out there and I=92d rather s= ee more of them than Namer/fighter combinations (most of the latter seem to= be lacking on both fronts unless they took namer after years of warrior).= =A0 </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">Regards</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">Rosemary</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p></div> <div> <div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa= n lang=3D"EN-US"> <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%"> </span></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang= =3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lan= g=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-= owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" tar= get=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Dickso= n</span></p> <div><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 3:07 p.m.<br></div> <div><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.= sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</div><span = style=3D"COLOR: blue" lang=3D"EN-US"></span> <p></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: blue" lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span= ></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: = blue" lang=3D"EN-GB">Always keen on EP sinks. :)</span></p> <div><br><br>I'd be keen to see weaker but rankable OOC CS regardless o= f Namer changes.=A0 (Whose CS could be gruntier if nothing else).<br><br></= div> <div>One note though... Celestial is elemental isn't it?=A0 Light and D= ark are elements...</div> <p></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: = navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 1:25 PM= , Jim Arona <<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ji= m.arona@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">I propose a change to the curre= nt counterspell conventions.</span><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"= EN-GB"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">For non-Namers, there are two d= ifferences. </span><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></= p></div> </div> <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= ;serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">Out of college counterspells a= re rankable as if they were Special Knowledge spells</span></li> <div> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= ;serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">The bonus to Magic Resistance = with respect to the College and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.</span></li= > </div></ol> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">For Namers, the differences are= </span></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">They no longer have college cou= nterspells, instead they have counterspells that affect branches:</span></p= > </div></div> <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= ;serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celest= ial, and Entity. This means that they will have 8 normal=A0counterspells. <= /span></li> <div> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= ;serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">The bonus to Magic Resistance = with respect to the Branch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank.</span></li><= /div> </ol> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0Discuss.</span></p></div></d= iv> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span></p></div></div></div= ></div></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>= </div></div>-- <br>Kind regards,<br><br>Jonathan Bean<br>H: +64 9 828 2959<= br> M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl= ank">jonobean@gmail.com</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br> --0016363b8ee2a1bbfd0488fff6a5-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 05:40:21 +1200 |
--00c09f9da9c7aad5ad048900fb30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I spoke to Jono last night when I could have been unconscious, and I find myself curiously deprived of my normal amount of unconsciousness. In any case, he raised a point about the effect of area of effect counterspells. I do not want to paint his suggestion as agreement with my proposal, but in the spirit of discussion, he opines that it would be a good thing if a Name= r has to identify a specific college when casting Area of Effect counterspells, so that only one college per branch counterspell can be denied. Actually, as I write this now, it occurs to me that it would be more elegan= t if a Namer had to identify the college of the branch that they wish to antagonise, in line with the Area of Effect convention noted above. Thus, the advantage that a Namer would have is that they would only need to Rank = 8 counterspells, even though each casting of a branch counterspell would only provide Magic Resistance against one college. Non-namers would have to Rank counterpells by each individual college. On 15 June 2010 04:27, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 15 June 2010 03:59, Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Please explain the impact of this in regards to counter spells cast on a= n >> area given the following: >> >> 1)) Protection of your party standing in a counterspell Vrs Elementals a= nd >> allowing the Fire mage (party member) to cast? >> A: I am assuming that the Fire Mage would not be able to cast. >> > Well, so I imagine. > >> >> 2) How would this impact on Phantasm, Specitral Warriors, and Nightmares= . >> A: The balance will change and method of protection/prevention. Nightmar= es >> will increase in value. >> > Sure. > > >> So I get to cast a single elemental counter under all the mages and turn >> off both the enemy Fire, Water and Air Mage at the same time? >> >> > Yes, so I imagine. > > > >> The number of actions required to protect a party of group is decreased= , >> allowing more time to cast more of the name Namer attack spells. >> >> This will lead to more advanced trench warfare with counterspells denyin= g >> areas of safety from casters, magics and elementals / phantasm's etc. >> >> As far as logistics go for the namer this change is minor as we already >> take into account race to BC for a counterspell so our character sheets = are >> large. >> >> Lowering the number of counterspells options will fundamentally change t= he >> flavour of Namer. This isn't to say that's a good or bad thing, but it w= ill >> change. >> >> I fully expect it will change the dynamics of combat & magic with fewer >> counter spells at higher ranks with more range allowing for Namers (and >> their guard) to dominate small group encounters. >> >> As far as items go a truly large number of people have items which will >> need to be looked at for balance. >> > > Well, any kind of change means that you may have to change items around > somewhat. Or maybe not. > >> Jono >> >> On 14 June 2010 17:09, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank >>> non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, a= nd b) >>> if you already have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to = spend >>> elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spen= d on >>> magic. >>> >>> On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like= to >>>> see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half >>>> effectiveness if you don=92t know the actual college (standard college= s learnt >>>> with Namer College). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Part of WordSmith=92s character intro is a >>>> >>>> =93I=92m an Actual Namer.=94 >>>> >>>> =93So where=92s the hand-and-a-half?=94 >>>> >>>> =93Actual, not =91Real=92. Try not to die, I don=92t want to have to c= arry you=94. >>>> >>>> >>>> [:-[)] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Errol >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behal= f >>>> Of *R Mansfield >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, 14 June 2010 3:20 p.m. >>>> >>>> *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz >>>> *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes Celestial is in the elemental branch. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for EP sinks this hugely reduces the drainage hole for Namers. >>>> >>>> I=92d almost like to see the branch counterspells have a higher EM, bu= t >>>> more MR or duration. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I=92d not like to see Namers abilities be overshadowed =96 currently >>>> counterspells are their contribution to =91power ups=92. But there ar= e so many >>>> that it takes ages for them to have a handy selection at a decent rank= . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There are only a couple of pure namers out there and I=92d rather see = more >>>> of them than Namer/fighter combinations (most of the latter seem to be >>>> lacking on both fronts unless they took namer after years of warrior). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Rosemary >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behal= f >>>> Of *Martin Dickson >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, 14 June 2010 3:07 p.m. >>>> *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz >>>> *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Always keen on EP sinks. :) >>>> >>>> >>>> I'd be keen to see weaker but rankable OOC CS regardless of Namer >>>> changes. (Whose CS could be gruntier if nothing else). >>>> >>>> One note though... Celestial is elemental isn't it? Light and Dark ar= e >>>> elements... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote= : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I propose a change to the current counterspell conventions. >>>> >>>> For non-Namers, there are two differences. >>>> >>>> 1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Specia= l >>>> Knowledge spells >>>> 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and >>>> body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank. >>>> >>>> For Namers, the differences are >>>> >>>> They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have >>>> counterspells that affect branches: >>>> >>>> 1. Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial, and Entity. This means that >>>> they will have 8 normal counterspells. >>>> 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and bod= y >>>> of knowledge is 10+1/Rank. >>>> >>>> Discuss. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kind regards, >> >> Jonathan Bean >> H: +64 9 828 2959 >> M: +64 21 917 173 >> G: jonobean@gmail.com >> > > --00c09f9da9c7aad5ad048900fb30 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I spoke to Jono last night when I could h= ave been unconscious, and I find myself curiously deprived of my normal amo= unt of unconsciousness. In any case, he raised a point about the effect of = area of effect counterspells.</font></div> <p><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I do not want to paint his suggestion as ag= reement with my proposal, but in the spirit of discussion, he opines that i= t would be a good thing if a Namer has to=A0identify a specific college whe= n=A0casting Area of Effect counterspells, so that only one college per bran= ch counterspell can be denied. </font></p> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Actually, as I write this now, it occurs = to me that it would be=A0more=A0elegant if a Namer had to=A0identify the co= llege of the=A0branch that they wish to antagonise, in line with the Area o= f Effect convention noted above.=A0 Thus, the advantage that a Namer would = have is that they would only need to Rank 8 counterspells,=A0even though=A0= each casting of a branch counterspell would only provide Magic Resistance a= gainst one college. Non-namers would=A0have=A0to Rank=A0counterpells=A0 by = each individual college.</font></div> <div><br><br></div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 04:27, Jim Arona <span dir=3D"lt= r"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>></= span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><font face=3D"georgia,serif"><br= ></font><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div class=3D"im">On 15 June 2010 03:59, Jonathan Bean <span dir=3D"ltr">&l= t;<a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jonobean@gmail.co= m</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Please explain the impact of thi= s in regards to counter spells cast on an area given the following:=20 <div><br></div> <div>1)) Protection of your party standing in a counterspell Vrs Elementals= and allowing the Fire mage (party member) to cast?=A0</div> <div>A: I am assuming that the Fire Mage would not be able to cast.</div></= blockquote></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Well, so I imagine.</font></div> <div class=3D"im"> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div><br></div> <div>2) How would this impact on=A0Phantasm, Specitral Warriors, and Nightm= ares.</div> <div>A: The balance will change and method of protection/prevention. Nightm= ares will increase in value.<br></div></blockquote></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Sure.</font></div> <div class=3D"im"> <div>=A0</div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div>So I get to cast a single elemental counter under all the mages and tu= rn off both the=A0enemy=A0Fire, Water and Air Mage at the same time?</div> <div> <div>=A0</div></div></blockquote></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Yes, so I imagine.</font></div> <div class=3D"im"> <div>=A0</div> <div>=A0</div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div> <div> <div>The number of actions required to protect a party of group is decrease= d, allowing more time to cast more of the name Namer attack spells.</div></= div> <div><br></div> <div>This will lead to more advanced=A0trench=A0warfare with counterspells = denying areas of safety from casters, magics and elementals / phantasm'= s etc.<br><br></div> <div>As far as=A0logistics=A0go for the namer this change is minor as we al= ready take into account race to BC for a counterspell so our character shee= ts are large.</div> <div><br></div> <div>Lowering the number of counterspells options will=A0fundamentally=A0ch= ange the flavour of Namer. This isn't to say that's a good or bad t= hing, but it will change.</div> <div><br></div> <div>I fully expect it will change the=A0dynamics of combat & magic wit= h fewer counter spells at higher ranks with more range allowing for Namers = (and their guard) to dominate small group encounters.=A0</div> <div><br></div> <div>As far as items go a truly large number of people have items which wil= l need to be looked at for balance.=A0</div></div></blockquote> <div>=A0</div></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Well, any kind of change means that you m= ay have to change items around somewhat. Or maybe not. </font><br></div> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div> <div>Jono</div> <div> <div> <div></div> <div><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 14 June 2010 17:09, Jim Arona <span dir=3D"lt= r"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jim.arona@g= mail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><font face=3D"georgia,serif">The= benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-stand= ard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if = you already have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to spend e= lsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to s= pend on magic.<br> </font><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div>On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"ma= ilto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com" target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com= </a>></span> wrote:<br></div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">With= out commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to see a b= enefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half effectiveness i= f you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer = College).</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Part= of WordSmith=92s character intro is a </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=93I= =92m an Actual Namer.=94 </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=93S= o where=92s the hand-and-a-half?=94 </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=93A= ctual, not =91Real=92. Try not to die, I don=92t want to have to carry you= =94. </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">[:-[= )]</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Chee= rs</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Erro= l</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div> <div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>R Mansfield</span></p> <div><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 3:20 p.m. </div> <div> <div></div> <div><br> <div><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.= sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</div></div>= </div> <p></p> <p></p></div></div> <div> <div></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">Yes Celestial is in the elemental branch.=A0 </span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">As for EP sinks this hugely reduces the drainage hole for Namers.</= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">I=92d almost like to see the branch counterspells have a higher EM,= but more MR or duration.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">I=92d not like to see Namers abilities be overshadowed =96 currentl= y counterspells are their contribution to =91power ups=92.=A0 But there are= so many that it takes ages for them to have a handy selection at a decent = rank.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">There are only a couple of pure namers out there and I=92d rather s= ee more of them than Namer/fighter combinations (most of the latter seem to= be lacking on both fronts unless they took namer after years of warrior).= =A0 </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">Regards</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">Rosemary</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p></div> <div> <div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa= n lang=3D"EN-US"> <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%"> </span></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang= =3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lan= g=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-= owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" tar= get=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Dickso= n</span></p> <div><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 3:07 p.m.<br></div> <div><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.= sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</div><span = style=3D"COLOR: blue" lang=3D"EN-US"></span> <p></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: blue" lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span= ></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: = blue" lang=3D"EN-GB">Always keen on EP sinks. :)</span></p> <div><br><br>I'd be keen to see weaker but rankable OOC CS regardless o= f Namer changes.=A0 (Whose CS could be gruntier if nothing else).<br><br></= div> <div>One note though... Celestial is elemental isn't it?=A0 Light and D= ark are elements...</div> <p></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: = navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 1:25 PM= , Jim Arona <<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ji= m.arona@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">I propose a change to the curre= nt counterspell conventions.</span><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"= EN-GB"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">For non-Namers, there are two d= ifferences. </span><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB"></span></= p></div> </div> <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= ;serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">Out of college counterspells a= re rankable as if they were Special Knowledge spells</span></li> <div> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= ;serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">The bonus to Magic Resistance = with respect to the College and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.</span></li= > </div></ol> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">For Namers, the differences are= </span></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">They no longer have college cou= nterspells, instead they have counterspells that affect branches:</span></p= > </div></div> <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= ;serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celest= ial, and Entity. This means that they will have 8 normal=A0counterspells. <= /span></li> <div> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= ;serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">The bonus to Magic Resistance = with respect to the Branch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank.</span></li><= /div> </ol> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0Discuss.</span></p></div></d= iv> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span></p></div></div></div= ></div></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>= </div></div>-- <br>Kind regards,<br><br>Jonathan Bean<br>H: +64 9 828 2959<= br> M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl= ank">jonobean@gmail.com</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><= br></blockquote></div><br> --00c09f9da9c7aad5ad048900fb30-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook |
|---|---|
| From | Struan Judd |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 07:42:51 +1200 |
Sorry, I was just acting to rectify a point of ambiguity in the ruleset. I agree with Jim that the max stats for Elementals are those listed in the beastiary and thus see no point in the Spell and Rituals reaching that limit so early in their ranking. TTFN, Struan On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 03:07, Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote: > > Struan wrote: >> >> Two changes to the Initial Notes are probably required to remove >> ambiguity: >> a) Add " Neither statistic may be greater than the maximum listed in the >> specific Elemental's Bestiary entry." after "An Elementals Fatigue & >> Endurance from summoning are to be split approximately to the ratio's given >> in the bestiary, of 2 Endurance:3 Fatigue." > > Why are you changing this from what is currently in play? > The rules have been; Listings for Elementals in the Bestiary are the stats > on their own plain or natural encountered (wild elemental's) > At the same time an adept with skills in spells or rituals allow > the adept to summon an elemental which have different stats to those in > the Bestiary. > You are actively moving away from this. Why? > I don't see this as an error at all. It has been pretty clear for a long > time. When other GMs have asked at gods meetings about this it was discussed > / explained. It was not seen as an error or noted at broken. > People/GMs can of coarse decide the want a change and that's all good. > Bernard aimed to not changing this section as far as the stats ( EN & Ft) > and leave them in the spells and rituals was discussed at a gods meeting > some time ago. > > Kind regards, > > Jonathan Bean > H: +64 9 828 2959 > M: +64 21 917 173 > G: jonobean@gmail.com > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Errol Cavit |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:40:12 +1200 |
--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF3064nzexmaln01tol_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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You haven't addressed my point.
Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus f=
or returning to areas. I'd prefer Namers to continue to have a game-mechani=
c reason to collect them (remembering that they get the Counterspells at Ra=
nk0 with relatively little effort).
The specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email bel=
ow addresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be 'familiar' with a Colleg=
e to specify it as the target of their ire.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim=
Arona
Sent: Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-standa=
rd colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if you a=
lready have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to spend elsewh=
ere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend on magic=
.
On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com<mailto:Errol.=
Cavit@tollgroup.com>> wrote:
Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I'd like to see a=
benefit for knowing a non-standard College's. Perhaps half effectiveness i=
f you don't know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer Co=
llege).
--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF3064nzexmaln01tol_
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You haven’t addressed my point.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour=
,
and a bonus for returning to areas. I’d prefer Namers to continue to =
have
a game-mechanic reason to collect them (remembering that they get the Count=
erspells
at Rank0 with relatively little effort).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The specify-College-when-casting modification suggested afte=
r
the email below addresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be ‘fami=
liar’
with a College to specify it as the target of their ire.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Georgia","serif"'>The
benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-standard
colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if you alre=
ady
have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to spend elsewhere. It=
's
not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend on magic.</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <<a
href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Without commenting on the overall =
merits
of the proposal, I’d like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard
College’s. Perhaps half effectiveness if you don’t know the act=
ual
college (standard colleges learnt with Namer College).</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF3064nzexmaln01tol_--
-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 09:06:24 +1200 |
--00c09fa8856c864a66048903dc2d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm still trying to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon the term). If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college specificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it. (Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and where it isn't the SK may be). Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rules for acquiring at effective Rk 0. Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking rules. Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a business analyst). :) Cheers, Martin --00c09fa8856c864a66048903dc2d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list?=A0 :)=A0 (I'm sti= ll trying to understand the business requirement for this, if=20 you'll pardon the term).<br><br>If we did want to reduce the CS load on= Namers, but retain college specificity, and still offer them a bonus over = non-Namers then collapsing the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it.<br= > <br>(Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... a= nd where it isn't the SK may be).<br><br>Namers: 1 CS per with a decent= bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rules for acquiring at effective Rk= 0. <br> Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking= rules.<br><br>Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers= ... I'm a business analyst). :)<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br> --00c09fa8856c864a66048903dc2d-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:07:30 +1200 |
--00c09f8a4d42a1c6b60489058df5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, why doesn't this addresss your point? On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: > You haven=92t addressed my point. > > Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus > for returning to areas. I=92d prefer Namers to continue to have a > game-mechanic reason to collect them (remembering that they get the > Counterspells at Rank0 with relatively little effort). > > > > The specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email > below addresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be =91familiar=92 with= a > College to specify it as the target of their ire. > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m. > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank > non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and= b) > if you already have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to sp= end > elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend = on > magic. > > On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: > > Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to s= ee a > benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half effectivenes= s if > you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer > College). > > > --00c09f8a4d42a1c6b60489058df5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">So, why doesn't this addresss your point?<= br></font><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <span dir=3D"= ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup= .com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">You = haven=92t addressed my point.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Enco= untering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus for r= eturning to areas. I=92d prefer Namers to continue to have a game-mechanic = reason to collect them (remembering that they get the Counterspells at Rank= 0 with relatively little effort).</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The = specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email below a= ddresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be =91familiar=92 with a Colleg= e to specify it as the target of their ire.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m.=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target= =3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell pr= oposal</div></span> <p></p></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: 'Georgia', 'serif'">The benefit would be that a) you = wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-standard colleges, unless they coul= dn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if you already have, you would ge= t the Experience and time refunded to spend elsewhere. It's not like Na= mers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend on magic.</span></p> <div class=3D"im"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com" target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com= </a>> wrote:</p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">With= out commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to see a b= enefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half effectiveness i= f you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer = College).</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br> --00c09f8a4d42a1c6b60489058df5-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:29:37 +1200 |
--0016e640d010b103a3048905dc41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, actually. Rosemary asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and my position is this. A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body of knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge. To mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial and Entity magic. For example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge counterspell and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my revision of Jono's notion, which I like). So, to recapitulate the revised proposal: For non-Namers, there are two differences. 1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special Knowledge spells 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank. For Namers, the differences are 1. They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial, and Entity. This means that they will have 8 counterspells. 2. The college to be affected by the branch counterspell is identified on casting by the Namer. 3. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank. With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Weaving, then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something new. I don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be missing something. On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm still > trying to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon the > term). > > If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college > specificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing > the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it. > > (Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and > where it isn't the SK may be). > > Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rules > for acquiring at effective Rk 0. > Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking > rules. > > Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a > business analyst). :) > > Cheers, > Martin > --0016e640d010b103a3048905dc41 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I think most of the Namers have been stan= ding well clear, actually.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Rosemary asked (basically) what was broke= n that it needed to be fixed, and my position is this.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept= . When it is used, it increases Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one= college and one body of knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to= reduce the nett Magic Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank = but to allow Adepts to Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge.= </font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">To mitigate against this, Namers Rank cou= nterspells by branch and body of knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaum= aturgy, Elemental, Celestial and Entity magic. For example,=A0they cast the= ir Elemental Special Knowledge counterspell and=A0Name the college to be af= fected as Fire (this is my revision of Jono's notion, which I like). </= font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">So, to recapitulate the revised proposal:= </font></div> <div>=A0</div> <div>For non-Namers, there are two differences. </div> <ol> <li>Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special Knowl= edge spells</li> <li>The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and body of k= nowledge is 10 +1/Rank.</li></ol> <div>For Namers, the differences are</div> <ol> <li>They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have counterspe= lls that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial, and Entity= . This means that they will have 8=A0 counterspells. </li> <li>The college to be affected by the branch counterspell is=A0identified o= n casting by the Namer.</li> <li>The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body of kn= owledge is 10+1/Rank.</li></ol> <p>With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Wea= ving, then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something = new. I don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be= missing something.</p> <div>=A0</div> <div>=A0</div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gma= il.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Have angry over-worked Namers be= en spamming the list?=A0 :)=A0 (I'm still trying to understand the busi= ness requirement for this, if you'll pardon the term).<br> <br>If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college spec= ificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing the 2= xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it.<br><br>(Especially since in many c= ases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and where it isn't the SK ma= y be).<br> <br>Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current r= ules for acquiring at effective Rk 0. <br>Everyone else: 2 CS per with smal= ler bonus, and normal learning and ranking rules.<br><br>Implementation det= ails left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a business analyst). = :)<br> <br>Cheers,<br><font color=3D"#888888">Martin<br></font></blockquote></div>= <br> --0016e640d010b103a3048905dc41-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Sgagers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:52:02 +1200 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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What make the Single Celestial College harder to counter than any other
single college?
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
I think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, actually.
Rosemary asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and
my position is this.
A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases
Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body of
knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic
Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to
Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge.
To mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of
knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial and
Entity magic. For example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge
counterspell and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my
revision of Jono's notion, which I like).
So, to recapitulate the revised proposal:
For non-Namers, there are two differences.
1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special
Knowledge spells
2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and body
of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.
For Namers, the differences are
1. They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have
counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial,
and Entity. This means that they will have 8 counterspells.
2. The college to be affected by the branch counterspell is identified
on casting by the Namer.
3. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body of
knowledge is 10+1/Rank.
With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Weaving,
then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something new. I
don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be missing
something.
On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:
Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm still trying
to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon the term).
If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college
specificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing
the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it.
(Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and
where it isn't the SK may be).
Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rules
for acquiring at effective Rk 0.
Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking
rules.
Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a
business analyst). :)
Cheers,
Martin
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<div class=3DWordSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What make the Single Celestial College harder to counter =
than
any other single college?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I =
think most of
the Namers have been standing well clear, =
actually.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Rosemary asked
(basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and my position =
is
this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>A =
counterspell
can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases Magic =
Resistance by
at least 30 against one college and one body of knowledge. This is a =
huge
bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic Resistance offered by a
counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to Rank counterspells by
college and body of knowledge. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>To =
mitigate
against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of knowledge, =
a
branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial and Entity =
magic. For
example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge counterspell
and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my revision of =
Jono's
notion, which I like). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>So, =
to
recapitulate the revised proposal:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>For non-Namers, there are two differences. =
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ol start=3D1 type=3D1>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Out of college counterspells are rankable =
as if
they were Special Knowledge spells<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect =
to the
College and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>For Namers, the differences are<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ol start=3D1 type=3D1>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>They no longer have college counterspells,
instead they have counterspells that affect branches, =
i.e.Thaumaturgy,
Elemental, Celestial, and Entity. This means that they will have =
8
counterspells. <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>The college to be affected by the branch
counterspell is identified on casting by the =
Namer.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect =
to the
Branch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p>With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional =
Weaving,
then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something =
new. I
don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be missing
something.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <<a
href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gmail.com</a>>=
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the =
list?
:) (I'm still trying to understand the business requirement for =
this, if
you'll pardon the term).<br>
<br>
If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college =
specificity,
and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing the 2xCS =
per
College to 1 CS per would do it.<br>
<br>
(Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... =
and where
it isn't the SK may be).<br>
<br>
Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current =
rules for
acquiring at effective Rk 0. <br>
Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and =
ranking
rules.<br>
<br>
Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a =
business
analyst). :)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<span style=3D'color:#888888'>Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:55:59 +1200 |
--00163630fc2b0c2ea10489063b6c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't think this is helpful, because, on the one hand, the points raised are spurious. Struan and I (and others, probably) do not allow elementals to have EN values greater than 50 and FT values greater than 85. So, with regard to what is currently in play, it is clear that if Jono and some others have played a different rule, then there is no consensus. And, with respect to the listing of elementals in the Bestiary, then it was most definitely not the case that they were the stats for wild or naturally occuring elementals. Here is the quote from the original entry: "Elementals are the physical manifestations of the primary elements. They do not normally exist on this plane, but are summoned by members of the Elemental Colleges. They will always be hostile to their summoner, and will attempt to kill them if they are released from their control. Elementals are impervious to attacks made with non-magical weapons. Magic does affect them. Each is vulnerable to its opposite element and can be damaged by attacks involving that opposite. Water and fire are opposite members, as are earth and air. An elemental's Endurance, Fatigue, and Strength vary according to its summoner's Rank with the summoning magic. Endurance and Fatigue vary as described in the summoning magic, while an elemental's Physical Strength equals a base number for each of the Elementals plus five for each Rank the summoner has attained in the summoning magic. " *-The Official DQ GM's Guide Edition 1.0 December 2005* Now, having made these points, I have another, and perhaps more salient point. It doesn't matter care what is currently in play or what someone's interpretation of the bestiary entry is. The concern is whether or not it is good for the game, and to bog the discussion down into what has gone before or what a particular entry means is unproductive, particularly when it is so spurious. Struan and I have a different opinion to Jono and others, and that's fine. Let us focus on what makes for a better game. On 15 June 2010 03:07, Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote: > > Struan wrote: > >> Two changes to the Initial Notes are probably required to remove >> ambiguity: >> a) Add " Neither statistic may be greater than the maximum listed in the >> specific Elemental's Bestiary entry." after "An Elementals Fatigue & >> Endurance from summoning are to be split approximately to the ratio's given >> in the bestiary, of 2 Endurance:3 Fatigue." >> > > Why are you changing this from what is currently in play? > > The rules have been; Listings for Elementals in the Bestiary are the stats > on their own plain or natural encountered (wild elemental's) > At the same time an adept with skills in spells or rituals allow > the adept to summon an elemental which have different stats to those in > the Bestiary. > > You are actively moving away from this. Why? > > I don't see this as an error at all. It has been pretty clear for a long > time. When other GMs have asked at gods meetings about this it was discussed > / explained. It was not seen as an error or noted at broken. > > People/GMs can of coarse decide the want a change and that's all good. > Bernard aimed to not changing this section as far as the stats ( EN & Ft) > and leave them in the spells and rituals was discussed at a gods meeting > some time ago. > > > Kind regards, > > Jonathan Bean > H: +64 9 828 2959 > M: +64 21 917 173 > G: jonobean@gmail.com > --00163630fc2b0c2ea10489063b6c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I don't think this is helpful, becaus= e, on the one hand, the points raised are spurious. Struan and I (and other= s, probably) do not allow elementals to have EN values greater than 50 and = FT values greater than 85. So, with regard to what is currently in play, it= is clear that if Jono and some others have played a different rule, then t= here is no consensus. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">And, with respect to the listing of eleme= ntals in the Bestiary, then it was most definitely not the case that they w= ere the stats for wild or naturally occuring elementals. Here is the quote = from the original entry:</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif"> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"= Arial"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">"Elementals are the ph= ysical manifestations of the primary</font></font></font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">elements. They d= o not normally exist on this plane, but are</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">summoned by memb= ers of the Elemental Colleges. They</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">will always be h= ostile to their summoner, and will attempt to</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">kill them if the= y are released from their control. Elementals</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">are impervious t= o attacks made with non-magical weapons.</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">Magic does affec= t them. Each is vulnerable to its opposite</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">element and can = be damaged by attacks involving that</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">opposite. Water = and fire are opposite members, as are</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">earth and air. A= n elemental's Endurance, Fatigue, and</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">Strength vary ac= cording to its summoner's Rank with the</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">summoning magic.= Endurance and Fatigue vary as</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">described in the= summoning magic, while an elemental's</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">Physical Strengt= h equals a base number for each of the</font></p> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">Elementals plus = five for each Rank the summoner has</font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"garamond,serif">attained in the summoning magic= . "</font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><em>-The Official DQ GM's = Guide Edition 1.0 December 2005</em></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"georgia,serif">Now, having made these points, I= have another, and perhaps more salient point. </font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Georgia">It doesn't matter=A0care what is c= urrently in play or what someone's interpretation of the bestiary entry= is. The concern is whether or not it is good for the game, and to bog the = discussion down into what has gone before or what a particular entry means = is unproductive, particularly when it is so spurious. </font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Georgia">Struan and I have a different opinion = to Jono and others, and that's fine. Let us focus on what makes for a b= etter game.</font></p> <p></p></font>On 15 June 2010 03:07, Jonathan Bean <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a= href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote= :<br></div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>Struan wrote:<br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div class=3D"im"> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div> <div>Two changes to the Initial Notes are probably required to remove ambig= uity:<br>a) Add " Neither statistic may be greater than the maximum li= sted in the specific Elemental's Bestiary entry." after "An E= lementals Fatigue & Endurance from summoning are to be split approximat= ely to the ratio's given in the bestiary, of 2 Endurance:3 Fatigue.&quo= t;<br> </div></div></blockquote> <div><br></div></div> <div>Why are you changing this from what is currently in play?</div> <div><br></div> <div>The rules have been; Listings for Elementals in the=A0Bestiary=A0are t= he stats on their own plain or natural=A0encountered (wild=A0elemental'= s)=A0=A0</div> <div>At the same time an adept with skills in spells or rituals allow the= =A0adept=A0to summon an elemental which have different stats to those in th= e=A0Bestiary.=A0</div> <div><br></div> <div>You are actively moving away from this.=A0Why?=A0</div> <div><br></div> <div>I don't see this as an error at all. It has been pretty clear for = a long time. When other GMs have asked at gods meetings about this it was d= iscussed / explained. It was not seen as an error or noted at broken.</div> <div><br></div> <div>People/GMs can of=A0coarse decide the want a change and that's all= good.=A0</div> <div>Bernard aimed to not changing this section as far as the stats ( EN &a= mp; Ft) and leave them in the spells and rituals was discussed at a gods me= eting some time ago.</div> <div>=A0</div></div> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"> <div><br></div>Kind regards,<br><br>Jonathan Bean<br>H: +64 9 828 2959<br>M= : +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla= nk">jonobean@gmail.com</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br> --00163630fc2b0c2ea10489063b6c-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:11:02 +1200 |
--00c09f90603dd6a333048906708e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If Celestial is treated as one single college, then it seems to me that a new Namer would only have three branches, and the most obvious branch to raise to 20 would be Elemental, since it would cover so many different colleges. I just don't see this as being much of an advantage. Whereas, I see little harm arising from making Celestials a separate branch, with separate 'colleges' inside of it, even for non-Namer Adepts. I suppose they would have to advance a pair of counterspells for each Celestial 'college'. It will suck a big chunk of Experience out of players and I'm thinking 'Why is this a bad thing?' On another note, I think that the single Celestial college is a trope that has probably passed its use-by date, and I would like to see it expanded into something a bit more interesting. I see that Andrew Withy (amongst others) has introduced a number of variants, and it is incredible to me that I have spent more than 20 years at this game and it never occurred to me that there might be a Lunar Celestial, or a Celestial Mariner. On 15 June 2010 11:52, Jason Sgagers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > What make the Single Celestial College harder to counter than any other > single college? > > > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf Of > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m. > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > I think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, actually. > > Rosemary asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and > my position is this. > > A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases > Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body of > knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic > Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to > Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge. > > To mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of > knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial and > Entity magic. For example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge > counterspell and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my > revision of Jono's notion, which I like). > > So, to recapitulate the revised proposal: > > > > For non-Namers, there are two differences. > > 1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special > Knowledge spells > 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and body > of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank. > > For Namers, the differences are > > 1. They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have > counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial, > and Entity. This means that they will have 8 counterspells. > 2. The college to be affected by the branch counterspell is identified > on casting by the Namer. > 3. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body of > knowledge is 10+1/Rank. > > With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Weaving, > then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something new. I > don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be missing > something. > > > > > > On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > > Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm still > trying to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon the > term). > > If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college > specificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing > the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it. > > (Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and > where it isn't the SK may be). > > Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rules > for acquiring at effective Rk 0. > Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking > rules. > > Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a > business analyst). :) > > Cheers, > Martin > > > --00c09f90603dd6a333048906708e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">If Celestial is treated as one single col= lege, then it seems to me that a new=A0Namer would only have three branches= , and the most obvious branch to raise to 20 would be Elemental, since it w= ould cover so many different colleges. I just don't see this as being m= uch of an advantage. Whereas, I see little harm arising from making Celesti= als a separate branch, with separate 'colleges' inside of it, even = for non-Namer Adepts.=A0 I suppose they would have to advance a pair of cou= nterspells for each Celestial 'college'. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">It will suck a=A0big chunk=A0of Experienc= e out of players and I'm thinking 'Why is this a bad thing?'</f= ont></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">On another note, I think that the single Celest= ial college is a trope that has probably passed its use-by date, and I woul= d like to see it expanded into something a bit more interesting. I see that= Andrew Withy (amongst others) has introduced a number of variants, and it = is incredible to me that I have spent more than 20 years at this game and i= t never occurred to me that there might be a Lunar Celestial, or a Celestia= l Mariner.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif"><br></font><br>=A0</div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 11:52, Jason Sgagers <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.c= o.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What= make the Single Celestial College harder to counter than any other single = college?</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m.=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target= =3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell pr= oposal</div></span> <p></p></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">I think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, actua= lly.</span></p></div> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">Rosemary asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be= fixed, and my position is this.</span></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it = increases Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body = of knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic= Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to= Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge. </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">To mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch a= nd body of knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Cel= estial and Entity magic. For example,=A0they cast their Elemental Special K= nowledge counterspell and=A0Name the college to be affected as Fire (this i= s my revision of Jono's notion, which I like). </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">So, to recapitulate the revised proposal:</span></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">For non-Namers, there are two differences. </p></div= > <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">Out of college counterspells are rankable as if the= y were Special Knowledge spells</li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the C= ollege and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.</li></ol> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">For Namers, the differences are</p></div> <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">They no longer have college counterspells, instead = they have counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, C= elestial, and Entity. This means that they will have 8=A0 counterspells. </= li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">The college to be affected by the branch counterspe= ll is=A0identified on casting by the Namer.</li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the B= ranch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank.</li></ol> <p>With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Wea= ving, then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something = new. I don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be= missing something.</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <<a href=3D= "mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">martin.dickson@gmail.co= m</a>> wrote:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list= ?=A0 :)=A0 (I'm still trying to understand the business requirement for= this, if you'll pardon the term).<br><br>If we did want to reduce the = CS load on Namers, but retain college specificity, and still offer them a b= onus over non-Namers then collapsing the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would= do it.<br> <br>(Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... a= nd where it isn't the SK may be).<br><br>Namers: 1 CS per with a decent= bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rules for acquiring at effective Rk= 0. <br> Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking= rules.<br><br>Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers= ... I'm a business analyst). :)<br><br>Cheers,<br><span style=3D"COLOR:= #888888">Martin</span></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><b= r> --00c09f90603dd6a333048906708e-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Sgagers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:11:22 +1200 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Should Read "What make the Celestial College as hard to learn to counter as
a Branch"
If you are going to use branches, at least be consistent.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Jason Sgagers
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:52 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
What make the Single Celestial College harder to counter than any other
single college?
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
I think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, actually.
Rosemary asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and
my position is this.
A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases
Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body of
knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic
Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to
Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge.
To mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of
knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial and
Entity magic. For example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge
counterspell and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my
revision of Jono's notion, which I like).
So, to recapitulate the revised proposal:
For non-Namers, there are two differences.
1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special
Knowledge spells
2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and body
of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.
For Namers, the differences are
1. They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have
counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial,
and Entity. This means that they will have 8 counterspells.
2. The college to be affected by the branch counterspell is identified
on casting by the Namer.
3. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body of
knowledge is 10+1/Rank.
With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Weaving,
then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something new. I
don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be missing
something.
On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:
Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm still trying
to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon the term).
If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college
specificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing
the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it.
(Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and
where it isn't the SK may be).
Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rules
for acquiring at effective Rk 0.
Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking
rules.
Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a
business analyst). :)
Cheers,
Martin
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<div class=3DWordSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Should Read “</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What make the Celestial College as =
hard
to learn to counter as a Branch”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If you are going to use branches, at least be consistent. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Sgagers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:52 a.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What make the Single Celestial College harder to counter =
than
any other single college?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I =
think most of
the Namers have been standing well clear, =
actually.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Rosemary asked
(basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and my position =
is
this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>A =
counterspell
can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases Magic =
Resistance by
at least 30 against one college and one body of knowledge. This is a =
huge
bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic Resistance offered by a
counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to Rank counterspells by =
college
and body of knowledge. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>To =
mitigate
against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of knowledge, =
a
branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial and Entity =
magic. For
example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge counterspell
and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my revision of =
Jono's
notion, which I like). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>So, =
to
recapitulate the revised proposal:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>For non-Namers, there are two differences. =
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ol start=3D1 type=3D1>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Out of college counterspells are rankable =
as if
they were Special Knowledge spells<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect =
to the
College and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>For Namers, the differences are<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ol start=3D1 type=3D1>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'>They no longer have college counterspells,
instead they have counterspells that affect branches, =
i.e.Thaumaturgy,
Elemental, Celestial, and Entity. This means that they will have =
8
counterspells. <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'>The college to be affected by the branch
counterspell is identified on casting by the =
Namer.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'>The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect =
to the
Branch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p>With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional =
Weaving,
then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something =
new. I
don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be missing
something.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <<a
href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gmail.com</a>>=
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the =
list?
:) (I'm still trying to understand the business requirement for =
this, if
you'll pardon the term).<br>
<br>
If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college =
specificity,
and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing the 2xCS =
per
College to 1 CS per would do it.<br>
<br>
(Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... =
and where
it isn't the SK may be).<br>
<br>
Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current =
rules for
acquiring at effective Rk 0. <br>
Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and =
ranking
rules.<br>
<br>
Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a =
business
analyst). :)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<span style=3D'color:#888888'>Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:14:19 +1200 |
--00c09f93da6595416c0489067c80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a topic for discussion. I'll thank you to keep it a discussion, not a personal attack, up with whic= h I will not put. On 15 June 2010 12:11, Jason Sgagers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > Should Read =93What make the Celestial College as hard to learn to count= er > as a Branch=94 > > > > If you are going to use branches, at least be consistent. > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jason Sgagers > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:52 a.m. > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > What make the Single Celestial College harder to counter than any other > single college? > > > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m. > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > I think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, actually. > > Rosemary asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, an= d > my position is this. > > A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases > Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body of > knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic > Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts t= o > Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge. > > To mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of > knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial an= d > Entity magic. For example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge > counterspell and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my > revision of Jono's notion, which I like). > > So, to recapitulate the revised proposal: > > > > For non-Namers, there are two differences. > > 1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special > Knowledge spells > 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and body > of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank. > > For Namers, the differences are > > 1. They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have > counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celest= ial, > and Entity. This means that they will have 8 counterspells. > 2. The college to be affected by the branch counterspell is identified > on casting by the Namer. > 3. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body o= f > knowledge is 10+1/Rank. > > With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Weaving, > then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something new.= I > don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be missing > something. > > > > > > On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > > Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm still > trying to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon = the > term). > > If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college > specificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing > the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it. > > (Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and > where it isn't the SK may be). > > Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rul= es > for acquiring at effective Rk 0. > Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranki= ng > rules. > > Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a > business analyst). :) > > Cheers, > Martin > > > --00c09f93da6595416c0489067c80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">This is a topic for discussion. </font></= div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I'll thank you to keep it a discussio= n, not a personal attack, up with which I will not put.<br></font><br></div= > <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 12:11, Jason Sgagers <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.c= o.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Shou= ld Read =93</span><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What make= the Celestial College as hard to learn to counter as a Branch=94</span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If y= ou are going to use branches, at least be consistent. </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Sgagers<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:52 a.m.=20 <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"><br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target= =3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell pr= oposal</div></div></span> <p></p></p></div></div> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What= make the Single Celestial College harder to counter than any other single = college?</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mail= to:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b= > Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</span></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">I think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, actua= lly.</span></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">Rosemary asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be= fixed, and my position is this.</span></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it = increases Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body = of knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic= Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to= Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge. </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">To mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch a= nd body of knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Cel= estial and Entity magic. For example,=A0they cast their Elemental Special K= nowledge counterspell and=A0Name the college to be affected as Fire (this i= s my revision of Jono's notion, which I like). </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">So, to recapitulate the revised proposal:</span></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">For non-Namers, there are two differences. </p></div= > <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">Out of college counterspells are rankable as if the= y were Special Knowledge spells</li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the C= ollege and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.</li></ol> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">For Namers, the differences are</p></div> <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">They no longer have college counterspells, instead = they have counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, C= elestial, and Entity. This means that they will have 8=A0 counterspells. </= li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">The college to be affected by the branch counterspe= ll is=A0identified on casting by the Namer.</li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal">The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the B= ranch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank.</li></ol> <p>With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Wea= ving, then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something = new. I don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be= missing something.</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <<a href=3D= "mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">martin.dickson@gmail.co= m</a>> wrote:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list= ?=A0 :)=A0 (I'm still trying to understand the business requirement for= this, if you'll pardon the term).<br><br>If we did want to reduce the = CS load on Namers, but retain college specificity, and still offer them a b= onus over non-Namers then collapsing the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would= do it.<br> <br>(Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... a= nd where it isn't the SK may be).<br><br>Namers: 1 CS per with a decent= bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rules for acquiring at effective Rk= 0. <br> Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking= rules.<br><br>Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers= ... I'm a business analyst). :)<br><br>Cheers,<br><span style=3D"COLOR:= #888888">Martin</span></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><b= r> --00c09f93da6595416c0489067c80-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Errol Cavit |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:40:19 +1200 |
--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF3066nzexmaln01tol_
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"I'd like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College's"
Refunding (now irrelevant) time and EP already spent (often 1 hour and 0EP =
for a Namer) isn't a benefit, it's a natural part of the conversion process=
. I thought that my follow-up made it especially clear that my desire was f=
or an continuing benefit, not credit for existing knowledge.
Errol
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim=
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
So, why doesn't this addresss your point?
On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com<mailto:Errol.=
Cavit@tollgroup.com>> wrote:
You haven't addressed my point.
Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus f=
or returning to areas. I'd prefer Namers to continue to have a game-mechani=
c reason to collect them (remembering that they get the Counterspells at Ra=
nk0 with relatively little effort).
The specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email bel=
ow addresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be 'familiar' with a Colleg=
e to specify it as the target of their ire.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz<mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz> [mailto:dq-owner@=
dq.sf.org.nz<mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz>] On Behalf Of Jim Arona
Sent: Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-standa=
rd colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if you a=
lready have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to spend elsewh=
ere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend on magic=
.
On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com<mailto:Errol.=
Cavit@tollgroup.com>> wrote:
Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I'd like to see a=
benefit for knowing a non-standard College's. Perhaps half effectiveness i=
f you don't know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer Co=
llege).
--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF3066nzexmaln01tol_
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>“=
I’d
like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College’s”<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Refundi=
ng (now
irrelevant) time and EP already spent (often 1 hour and 0EP for a Namer) is=
n’t
a benefit, it’s a natural part of the conversion process. I thought t=
hat
my follow-up made it especially clear that my desire was for an continuing =
benefit,
not credit for existing knowledge.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Errol</=
span><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Georgia","serif"'>So,
why doesn't this addresss your point?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <<a
href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You haven’t addressed my poi=
nt.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Encountering and learning non-stan=
dard
Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus for returning to areas. I’d prefer
Namers to continue to have a game-mechanic reason to collect them (remember=
ing
that they get the Counterspells at Rank0 with relatively little effort).</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The specify-College-when-casting
modification suggested after the email below addresses this, assuming that =
a
Namer has to be ‘familiar’ with a College to specify it as the
target of their ire.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=
=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner=
@dq.sf.org.nz</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.or=
g.nz</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>The benefit would be that a) you wo=
uldn't
need to learn and Rank non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit
inside one branch, and b) if you already have, you would get the Experience=
and
time refunded to spend elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pi=
le
of stuff to spend on magic.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>On
14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <<a href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup=
.com"
target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Without commenting on the overall =
merits
of the proposal, I’d like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard
College’s. Perhaps half effectiveness if you don’t know the act=
ual
college (standard colleges learnt with Namer College).</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF3066nzexmaln01tol_--
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:58:24 +1200 |
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Sorry, this was not meant to be an attack, but more a comment on the need
for consistency.
IS we are going to change the Namer so that there counters are branch based,
then it need to stay branch based.
Not have most branch based, with on be college based. This will lead to
confusion later down the track.
If this proposal makes one set of counters more powerful than the others
then maybe there is a flaw in the proposal.
If we see the need to single out the Celestial College, then there probably
needs to be a separate discussion around changes to celestial and its
nature, that is not buried in a discussion about counters and changing them.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 12:14 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
This is a topic for discussion.
I'll thank you to keep it a discussion, not a personal attack, up with which
I will not put.
On 15 June 2010 12:11, Jason Sgagers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote:
Should Read "What make the Celestial College as hard to learn to counter as
a Branch"
If you are going to use branches, at least be consistent.
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sorry, this was not meant to be an attack, but more a =
comment on
the need for consistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>IS we are going to change the Namer so that there =
counters are
branch based, then it need to stay branch based.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Not have most branch based, with on be college =
based. This will
lead to confusion later down the track.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If this proposal makes one set of counters more powerful =
than
the others then maybe there is a flaw in the =
proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If we see the need to single out the Celestial College, =
then
there probably needs to be a separate discussion around changes to =
celestial
and its nature, that is not buried in a discussion about counters and =
changing them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 12:14 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>This =
is a topic
for discussion. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I'll
thank you to keep it a discussion, not a personal attack, up with which =
I will
not put.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 12:11, Jason Sgagers <<a
href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Should Read “What make =
the Celestial
College as hard to learn to counter as a =
Branch”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> If you are going to use =
branches,
at least be consistent. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:00:42 +1200 |
--0016363b8e1074c0a30489072267 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As I see it, if a Namer encounters a new college, then under my proposal, they would take an hour and learn the name of the college if it fit into a branch of magic. If it didn't fit into a branch of magic, then they would take an hour and learn the specific college counterspells. They would have to Rank those particular college counterspells separately, I suppose. But surely, this is self-evident. What am I missing here, Errol? On 15 June 2010 12:40, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: > =93I=92d like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s=94 > > > > Refunding (now irrelevant) time and EP already spent (often 1 hour and 0E= P > for a Namer) isn=92t a benefit, it=92s a natural part of the conversion p= rocess. > I thought that my follow-up made it especially clear that my desire was f= or > an continuing benefit, not credit for existing knowledge. > > > > Errol > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m. > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > So, why doesn't this addresss your point? > > On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: > > You haven=92t addressed my point. > > Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus > for returning to areas. I=92d prefer Namers to continue to have a > game-mechanic reason to collect them (remembering that they get the > Counterspells at Rank0 with relatively little effort). > > > > The specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email > below addresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be =91familiar=92 with= a > College to specify it as the target of their ire. > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m. > > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank > non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and= b) > if you already have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to sp= end > elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend = on > magic. > > On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: > > Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to s= ee a > benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half effectivenes= s if > you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer > College). > > > > > --0016363b8e1074c0a30489072267 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">As I see it, if a Namer encounters a new = college, then under my proposal, they would take an hour and learn the name= of the college if it fit into a branch of magic. If it didn't fit into= a branch of magic, then they would take an hour and learn=A0the specific c= ollege counterspells. They=A0would have to Rank=A0those particular college= =A0counterspells=A0separately, I suppose. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">But surely, this is self-evident. What am I mis= sing here, Errol?</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia"></font>=A0</div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 12:40, Errol Cavit <span dir=3D"= ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup= .com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=93I= =92d like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s=94</span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Refu= nding (now irrelevant) time and EP already spent (often 1 hour and 0EP for = a Namer) isn=92t a benefit, it=92s a natural part of the conversion process= . I thought that my follow-up made it especially clear that my desire was f= or an continuing benefit, not credit for existing knowledge.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Erro= l</span><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m.=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target= =3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell pr= oposal</div></span> <p></p></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: 'Georgia', 'serif'">So, why doesn't this addresss= your point?</span></p> <div> <div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com" target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com= </a>> wrote:</p></div> <div> <div> <div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">You = haven=92t addressed my point.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Enco= untering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus for r= eturning to areas. I=92d prefer Namers to continue to have a game-mechanic = reason to collect them (remembering that they get the Counterspells at Rank= 0 with relatively little effort).</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The = specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email below a= ddresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be =91familiar=92 with a Colleg= e to specify it as the target of their ire.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m. </span></p> <div class=3D"im"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><br><= b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org= .nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</span></p></div><= /div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: 'Georgia', 'serif'">The benefit would be that a) you = wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-standard colleges, unless they coul= dn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if you already have, you would ge= t the Experience and time refunded to spend elsewhere. It's not like Na= mers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend on magic.</span></p> <div class=3D"im"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com" target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com= </a>> wrote:</p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">With= out commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to see a b= enefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half effectiveness i= f you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer = College).</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></blockquote></div><br> --0016363b8e1074c0a30489072267-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:08:09 +1200 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in the
use of non college magics by GM's. This pretty much nullifies the Namers
abilities.
This is something that could be the namer special things over and above
counters of other adepts.
The ability to counter (at least to some degree) non college magics.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:01 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
As I see it, if a Namer encounters a new college, then under my proposal,
they would take an hour and learn the name of the college if it fit into a
branch of magic. If it didn't fit into a branch of magic, then they would
take an hour and learn the specific college counterspells. They would have
to Rank those particular college counterspells separately, I suppose.
But surely, this is self-evident. What am I missing here, Errol?
On 15 June 2010 12:40, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote:
"I'd like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College's"
Refunding (now irrelevant) time and EP already spent (often 1 hour and 0EP
for a Namer) isn't a benefit, it's a natural part of the conversion process.
I thought that my follow-up made it especially clear that my desire was for
an continuing benefit, not credit for existing knowledge.
Errol
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
So, why doesn't this addresss your point?
On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote:
You haven't addressed my point.
Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus
for returning to areas. I'd prefer Namers to continue to have a
game-mechanic reason to collect them (remembering that they get the
Counterspells at Rank0 with relatively little effort).
The specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email
below addresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be 'familiar' with a
College to specify it as the target of their ire.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank
non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and b)
if you already have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to spend
elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend on
magic.
On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote:
Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I'd like to see a
benefit for knowing a non-standard College's. Perhaps half effectiveness if
you don't know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer
College).
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is =
an
increased in the use of non college magics by GM’s. This =
pretty much nullifies
the Namers abilities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This is something that could be the namer special things =
over
and above counters of other adepts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The ability to counter (at least to some degree) non =
college
magics.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:01 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>As I =
see it, if
a Namer encounters a new college, then under my proposal, they would =
take an
hour and learn the name of the college if it fit into a branch of magic. =
If it
didn't fit into a branch of magic, then they would take an hour and
learn the specific college counterspells. They would have to
Rank those particular college counterspells separately, I
suppose. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>But =
surely, this
is self-evident. What am I missing here, Errol?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 12:40, Errol Cavit <<a
href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com</a>&g=
t;
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>“I’d like to see a =
benefit for knowing a
non-standard College’s”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Refunding (now irrelevant) time =
and EP
already spent (often 1 hour and 0EP for a Namer) isn’t a benefit, =
it’s a
natural part of the conversion process. I thought that my follow-up made =
it
especially clear that my desire was for an continuing benefit, not =
credit for
existing knowledge.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Errol</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>So, why doesn't this addresss =
your point?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <<a =
href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com"
target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You haven’t addressed my =
point.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Encountering and learning =
non-standard
Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus for returning to areas. I’d =
prefer Namers to
continue to have a game-mechanic reason to collect them (remembering =
that they
get the Counterspells at Rank0 with relatively little =
effort).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The =
specify-College-when-casting
modification suggested after the email below addresses this, assuming =
that a
Namer has to be ‘familiar’ with a College to specify it as =
the target of their
ire.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>The benefit would be that a) you =
wouldn't
need to learn and Rank non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be =
fit
inside one branch, and b) if you already have, you would get the =
Experience and
time refunded to spend elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge =
pile
of stuff to spend on magic.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <<a =
href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com"
target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Without commenting on the =
overall merits
of the proposal, I’d like to see a benefit for knowing a =
non-standard
College’s. Perhaps half effectiveness if you don’t know the =
actual college
(standard colleges learnt with Namer College).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01CB0C8B.CD53CDC0--
-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:12:09 +1200 |
--00c09fa218eb6722260489074ba0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At the moment, the Celestial counterspells are more powerful than any others. All of my characters have them, unless they've had their brains blown out their ears by a backfire and are dribbling away MA points. Under this propoasal, Star, Solar, Shadow and Dark Celestials would be treated as separate colleges. I suppose this means that non-Namer Adepts would have to learn the counterspells for each of these, whereas the 'branch' counterspel= l for Namers would apply to any of them. Is this a bad thing, and if so, why? On 15 June 2010 12:58, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > > > If this proposal makes one set of counters more powerful than the others > then maybe there is a flaw in the proposal. > > > > If we see the need to single out the Celestial College, then there probab= ly > needs to be a separate discussion around changes to celestial and its > nature, that is not buried in a discussion about counters and changing th= em. > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 12:14 p.m. > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > This is a topic for discussion. > > I'll thank you to keep it a discussion, not a personal attack, up with > which I will not put. > > On 15 June 2010 12:11, Jason Sgagers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > > Should Read =93What make the Celestial College as hard to learn to counte= r as > a Branch=94 > > If you are going to use branches, at least be consistent. > > > > > --00c09fa218eb6722260489074ba0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">At the moment, the Celestial counterspell= s are more powerful than any others. All of my characters have them, unless= they've had their brains blown out their ears by a backfire and are dr= ibbling away=A0MA points. Under this propoasal, Star, Solar, Shadow and Dar= k Celestials would be treated as separate colleges. I suppose this means th= at=A0non-Namer Adepts would have to learn the counterspells for each of the= se, whereas the 'branch' counterspell for Namers would apply to any= of them. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Is this a bad thing, and if so, why?<br><= /font><br></div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 12:58, Jason Saggers <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.c= o.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If t= his proposal makes one set of counters more powerful than the others then m= aybe there is a flaw in the proposal.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If w= e see the need to single out the Celestial College, then there probably nee= ds to be a separate =A0discussion around changes to celestial and its natur= e, that is not buried in a discussion about counters and changing them.</sp= an></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 12:14 p.m.=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target= =3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell pr= oposal</div></span> <p></p></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">This is a topic for discussion. </span></p></div> <div class=3D"im"> <div> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: 'Georgia', 'serif'">I'll thank you to keep it a d= iscussion, not a personal attack, up with which I will not put.</span></p><= /div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 12:11, Jason Sgagers <<a href=3D"= mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</= a>> wrote:</p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Shou= ld Read =93What make the Celestial College as hard to learn to counter as a= Branch=94</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0I= f you are going to use branches, at least be consistent. </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br> --00c09fa218eb6722260489074ba0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Dean Ellis |
| Date | Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:13:07 -0700 (PDT) |
--0-1393069126-1276564387=:11255
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am going to try and boil this down to three areas of contention, and comm=
ent on such from my perspective.=0A=0A1. Are there are too many Counterspel=
ls?=0A2. Is the bonus from a counterspell=A0too high?=0A3.=A0Would it be go=
od to allow some ranking of counterspells by non namers, but in doing so, d=
o we spoil the Namers role?=0A=0A1. I do find the number of Counterspells r=
ather onerous. 16 colleges in the book, plus at least a dozen extras, with =
more cropping up all the time. It is a lot to keep track of, and a lot to r=
ank, but in some ways it is part and parcel of being a namer. The good ones=
have all of them, all at least partially ranked, some highly so. The medio=
cre ones, like Sabrina, have a few at low ranks, a lot at 0, and have gaps =
in their knowledge. A lowering of the number would tend to favour the medio=
cre namers, and create less of a differentiation between the types. While I=
favour the concept, and like the idea of 'branch' cspells, such issues wou=
ld need to be tackled.=0A=0A2. The bonus is quite large, but reasonably war=
ranted. Most people can only have one, and often there is a lot of doubt as=
to which one to have on. The duration is short, making it a pre buff only =
for known combats, and often then there is still guesswork as to the best o=
ne to put on. The current bonus puts most people over 100% MR, for that one=
college, so is this the nature of the problem? Do we want smaller incremen=
ts of increased MR covering a larger area of colleges vs the current system=
of one big hit vs one college? Both have their pros and cons=0A=0A3. It is=
one of the weird anomalies to allow the learning of Rank 0 Cspells to non =
namers, but not allow the ranking thereof. The reasoning I think is to not =
rain on the Namers parade by taking away one of their strengths. Even if we=
opened it up, Namers still have all of these differentations to their cred=
it:=0AQuick Cast - 1 action faster, much more useful in combat=0AGeneral Kn=
owledge - Only good for decent MA namers, but at least they can get a disco=
unt. Also the Rank 0 ones do not count against MA.=0AAssociated Abilities -=
The context of a Cspell for a namer is better given spells like banishment=
and dispel magic making the cspell more powerful overall=0A=0AI personally=
would not mind the allowance of ranking, but would like to see a further d=
ifferentiation between namer and non namer. Extended duration, slightly mor=
e power, etc, could be explored, which could fit with whatever scope is def=
ined in the number and type of cspells discussion=0A=0AMy 2 cents worth, ho=
pefully it was better than loose change :-)=0A=0ADean=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A=0A=
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com>=
=0ATo: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=0ASent: Tue, June 15, 2010 11:29:37 AM=0ASubject: Re=
: [dq] Counterspell proposal=0A=0A=0AI think most of the Namers have been s=
tanding well clear, actually.=0ARosemary asked (basically) what was broken =
that it needed to be fixed, and my position is this.=0AA counterspell can b=
e learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases Magic Resistance by at=
least 30 against one college and one body of knowledge. This is a huge bon=
us. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic Resistance offered by a counter=
spell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to Rank counterspells by college a=
nd body of knowledge. =0ATo mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspell=
s by branch and body of knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, E=
lemental, Celestial and Entity magic. For example,=A0they cast their Elemen=
tal Special Knowledge counterspell and=A0Name the college to be affected as=
Fire (this is my revision of Jono's notion, which I like). =0ASo, to recap=
itulate the revised proposal:=0A=0AFor non-Namers, there are two difference=
s. =0A=091. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Speci=
al Knowledge spells=0A=092. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to t=
he College and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.=0AFor Namers, the differenc=
es are=0A=091. They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have=
counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial,=
and Entity. This means that they will have 8=A0 counterspells. =0A=092. Th=
e college to be affected by the branch counterspell is=A0identified on cast=
ing by the Namer.=0A=093. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the=
Branch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank.=0AWith regard to non-standard c=
olleges, like William's Dimensional Weaving, then either we use the current=
mechanic or we come up with something new. I don't see that there is a pro=
blem with this, although I might be missing something.=0A=0A=0AOn 15 June 2=
010 09:06, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0AHave angry=
over-worked Namers been spamming the list?=A0 :)=A0 (I'm still trying to u=
nderstand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon the term).=0A=
>=0A>If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college spe=
cificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing the =
2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it.=0A>=0A>(Especially since in many =
cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and where it isn't the SK may b=
e).=0A>=0A>Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and cu=
rrent rules for acquiring at effective Rk 0. =0A>Everyone else: 2 CS per wi=
th smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking rules.=0A>=0A>Implementat=
ion details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a business analyst=
). :)=0A>=0A>Cheers,=0A>Martin=0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A
--0-1393069126-1276564387=:11255
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV>I am going to try and boil this down to three areas of=
contention, and comment on such from my perspective.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </=
DIV>=0A<DIV>1. Are there are too many Counterspells?</DIV>=0A<DIV>2. Is the=
bonus from a counterspell too high?</DIV>=0A<DIV>3. Would it be =
good to allow some ranking of counterspells by non namers, but in doing so,=
do we spoil the Namers role?</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>1. I do find=
the number of Counterspells rather onerous. 16 colleges in the book, plus =
at least a dozen extras, with more cropping up all the time. It is a lot to=
keep track of, and a lot to rank, but in some ways it is part and parcel o=
f being a namer. The good ones have all of them, all at least partially ran=
ked, some highly so. The mediocre ones, like Sabrina, have a few at low ran=
ks, a lot at 0, and have gaps in their knowledge. A lowering of the number =
would tend to favour the mediocre namers, and create less of a differentiat=
ion between the types. While I favour the concept, and like the idea of 'br=
anch' cspells, such issues would need to be tackled.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </D=
IV>=0A<DIV>2. The bonus is quite large, but reasonably warranted. Most peop=
le can only have one, and often there is a lot of doubt as to which one to =
have on. The duration is short, making it a pre buff only for known combats=
, and often then there is still guesswork as to the best one to put on. The=
current bonus puts most people over 100% MR, for that one college, so is t=
his the nature of the problem? Do we want smaller increments of increased M=
R covering a larger area of colleges vs the current system of one big hit v=
s one college? Both have their pros and cons</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<D=
IV>3. It is one of the weird anomalies to allow the learning of Rank 0 Cspe=
lls to non namers, but not allow the ranking thereof. The reasoning I think=
is to not rain on the Namers parade by taking away one of their strengths.=
Even if we opened it up, Namers still have all of these differentations to=
their credit:</DIV>=0A<DIV>Quick Cast - 1 action faster, much more useful =
in combat</DIV>=0A<DIV>General Knowledge - Only good for decent MA namers, =
but at least they can get a discount. Also the Rank 0 ones do not count aga=
inst MA.</DIV>=0A<DIV>Associated Abilities - The context of a Cspell for a =
namer is better given spells like banishment and dispel magic making the cs=
pell more powerful overall</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>I personally wo=
uld not mind the allowance of ranking, but would like to see a further diff=
erentiation between namer and non namer. Extended duration, slightly more p=
ower, etc, could be explored, which could fit with whatever scope is define=
d in the number and type of cspells discussion</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A=
<DIV>My 2 cents worth, hopefully it was better than loose change :-)</DIV>=
=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>Dean</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR> </DIV>=0A<DIV> =
;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new =
york, times, serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: time=
s new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SI=
ZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Jim Arona &=
lt;jim.arona@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPA=
N></B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN>=
</B> Tue, June 15, 2010 11:29:37 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold"=
>Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<DIV><=
FONT face=3Dgeorgia,serif>I think most of the Namers have been standing wel=
l clear, actually.</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3Dgeorgia,serif>Rosemary =
asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and my positi=
on is this.</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3Dgeorgia,serif>A counterspell c=
an be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases Magic Resistance b=
y at least 30 against one college and one body of knowledge. This is a huge=
bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic Resistance offered by a cou=
nterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to Rank counterspells by colle=
ge and body of knowledge. </FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3Dgeorgia,serif>T=
o mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of kn=
owledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial and En=
tity magic. For example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge c=
ounterspell and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my re=
vision of Jono's notion, which I like). </FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3Dg=
eorgia,serif>So, to recapitulate the revised proposal:</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV>=
</DIV>=0A<DIV>For non-Namers, there are two differences. </DIV>=0A<OL=
>=0A<LI>Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special K=
nowledge spells</LI>=0A<LI>The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to th=
e College and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.</LI></OL>=0A<DIV>For Namers,=
the differences are</DIV>=0A<OL>=0A<LI>They no longer have college counter=
spells, instead they have counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumatur=
gy, Elemental, Celestial, and Entity. This means that they will have 8 =
; counterspells. </LI>=0A<LI>The college to be affected by the branch count=
erspell is identified on casting by the Namer.</LI>=0A<LI>The bonus to=
Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body of knowledge is 10+1/=
Rank.</LI></OL>=0A<P>With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's D=
imensional Weaving, then either we use the current mechanic or we come up w=
ith something new. I don't see that there is a problem with this, although =
I might be missing something.</P>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=
=0A<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <SPAN dir=
=3Dltr><<A href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com" target=3D_blank rel=
=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gmai=
l.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"=
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">=
Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm s=
till trying to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pard=
on the term).<BR><BR>If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but re=
tain college specificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then=
collapsing the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it.<BR><BR>(Especiall=
y since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and where it is=
n't the SK may be).<BR><BR>Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-=
casting), and current rules for acquiring at effective Rk 0. <BR>Everyone e=
lse: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking rules.<BR=
><BR>Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a =
business analyst). :)<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><FONT
color=3D#888888>Martin<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></div>=
<br>=0A=0A </body></html>
--0-1393069126-1276564387=:11255--
-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Hamish Brown |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:13:54 +1200 |
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At the risk of copping Jim's ire - you can't make celestial a branch on its
own just to make 4 branches its incredibly unbalanced.
Why not put celestial back into one collage where adepts can learn all 4
areas, then put it in elemental.
Hamish
_____
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:11 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
If Celestial is treated as one single college, then it seems to me that a
new Namer would only have three branches, and the most obvious branch to
raise to 20 would be Elemental, since it would cover so many different
colleges. I just don't see this as being much of an advantage. Whereas, I
see little harm arising from making Celestials a separate branch, with
separate 'colleges' inside of it, even for non-Namer Adepts. I suppose they
would have to advance a pair of counterspells for each Celestial 'college'.
It will suck a big chunk of Experience out of players and I'm thinking 'Why
is this a bad thing?'
On another note, I think that the single Celestial college is a trope that
has probably passed its use-by date, and I would like to see it expanded
into something a bit more interesting. I see that Andrew Withy (amongst
others) has introduced a number of variants, and it is incredible to me that
I have spent more than 20 years at this game and it never occurred to me
that there might be a Lunar Celestial, or a Celestial Mariner.
On 15 June 2010 11:52, Jason Sgagers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote:
What make the Single Celestial College harder to counter than any other
single college?
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
I think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, actually.
Rosemary asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and
my position is this.
A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases
Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body of
knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic
Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to
Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge.
To mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of
knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial and
Entity magic. For example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge
counterspell and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my
revision of Jono's notion, which I like).
So, to recapitulate the revised proposal:
For non-Namers, there are two differences.
1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special
Knowledge spells
2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and body
of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.
For Namers, the differences are
1. They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have
counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial,
and Entity. This means that they will have 8 counterspells.
2. The college to be affected by the branch counterspell is identified
on casting by the Namer.
3. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body of
knowledge is 10+1/Rank.
With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Weaving,
then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something new. I
don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be missing
something.
On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:
Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm still trying
to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon the term).
If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college
specificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing
the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it.
(Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and
where it isn't the SK may be).
Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rules
for acquiring at effective Rk 0.
Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranking
rules.
Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a
business analyst). :)
Cheers,
Martin
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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>At the risk of copping Jim’s =
ire –
you can’t make celestial a branch on its own just to make 4 =
branches its
incredibly unbalanced.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Why not put celestial back into one
collage where adepts can learn all 4 areas, then put it in =
elemental.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;display:none'>Hamish<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>=
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 15, =
2010 12:11
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] =
Counterspell
proposal</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Georgia'>If Celestial is treated as one single college, then =
it
seems to me that a new Namer would only have three branches, and =
the most
obvious branch to raise to 20 would be Elemental, since it would cover =
so many
different colleges. I just don't see this as being much of an advantage.
Whereas, I see little harm arising from making Celestials a separate =
branch,
with separate 'colleges' inside of it, even for non-Namer Adepts. =
I suppose
they would have to advance a pair of counterspells for each Celestial
'college'. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Georgia'>It will suck a big chunk of Experience =
out of
players and I'm thinking 'Why is this a bad =
thing?'</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Georgia'>On another note, I think that the single Celestial =
college
is a trope that has probably passed its use-by date, and I would like to =
see it
expanded into something a bit more interesting. I see that Andrew Withy
(amongst others) has introduced a number of variants, and it is =
incredible to
me that I have spent more than 20 years at this game and it never =
occurred to
me that there might be a Lunar Celestial, or a Celestial =
Mariner.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Georgia'><br>
</span></font><br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>On 15 June 2010 11:52, Jason Sgagers <<a
href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div vlink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>What make the <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st=3D"on">Single</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">Celestial</st1:PlaceName>
<st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> harder =
to counter
than any other single college?</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz"
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a
href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 15 June =
2010 11:30
a.m. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] =
Counterspell
proposal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>I
think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, =
actually.</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Rosemary
asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and my =
position
is this.</span></font><span lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>A
counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases =
Magic
Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body of knowledge. =
This
is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic Resistance =
offered by
a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to Rank counterspells =
by
college and body of knowledge. </span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>To
mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of
knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial =
and
Entity magic. For example, they cast their Elemental Special =
Knowledge
counterspell and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is =
my
revision of Jono's notion, which I like). </span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>So,
to recapitulate the revised proposal:</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>For
non-Namers, there are two differences. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<ol start=3D1 type=3D1>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Out of college =
counterspells are
rankable as if they were Special Knowledge =
spells<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The bonus to Magic =
Resistance with
respect to the College and body of knowledge is 10 =
+1/Rank.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>For
Namers, the differences are<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<ol start=3D1 type=3D1>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>They no longer have college
counterspells, instead they have counterspells that affect =
branches,
i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial, and Entity. This means that =
they
will have 8 counterspells. <o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The college to be affected =
by the
branch counterspell is identified on casting by the =
Namer.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The bonus to Magic =
Resistance with
respect to the Branch and body of knowledge is =
10+1/Rank.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>With
regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Weaving, =
then either
we use the current mechanic or we come up with something new. I don't =
see that
there is a problem with this, although I might be missing =
something.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>On 15
June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <<a =
href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com"
target=3D"_blank">martin.dickson@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Have
angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm =
still
trying to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon =
the
term).<br>
<br>
If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college =
specificity,
and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing the 2xCS =
per
College to 1 CS per would do it.<br>
<br>
(Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... =
and where
it isn't the SK may be).<br>
<br>
Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current =
rules for
acquiring at effective Rk 0. <br>
Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and =
ranking
rules.<br>
<br>
Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a =
business
analyst). :)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><span =
style=3D'color:#888888'>Martin</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:15:39 +1200 |
--000feaf3245df298ba04890757a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Non-College, or Non-Standard College? Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no college" works against the general game mechanic. Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-one has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edge away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended to cripple namers. On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz>wro= te: > Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in > the use of non college magics by GM=92s. This pretty much nullifies the > Namers abilities. > > > > This is something that could be the namer special things over and above > counters of other adepts. > > > --000feaf3245df298ba04890757a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Non-College, or Non-Standard College?<br><br>Perhaps that's something f= or GMs to think about; making the magic "no college" works agains= t the general game mechanic.<br><br>Have "Cheese College" if you = want... heck, if you want to make sure no-one has encountered it before mak= e it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edge away from non-colle= ge unless really necessary... or actually intended to cripple namers. <br> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason S= aggers <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psy= clone@darksoft.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu= ote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 20= 4, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-NZ"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= 25);">Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in the use of non college magics by GM=92s.=A0 This pretty much n= ullifies the Namers abilities.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= 25);">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= 25);">This is something that could be the namer special things over and above counters of other adepts.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= 25);">=A0</span><br></p></div></div></blockquote></div> --000feaf3245df298ba04890757a5-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook |
|---|---|
| From | Hamish Brown |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:26:46 +1200 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Elementals in the beastery are based on DQ game where no PC ever got a rk 20
spell let alone a ritual. The reality is that most high level parties laugh
unless the elemental has 600EN and at least as much ftg. Well I know I do.
Bernard's changes are good GM's do what they like
What's the problem?
H
_____
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:56 AM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook
I don't think this is helpful, because, on the one hand, the points raised
are spurious. Struan and I (and others, probably) do not allow elementals to
have EN values greater than 50 and FT values greater than 85. So, with
regard to what is currently in play, it is clear that if Jono and some
others have played a different rule, then there is no consensus.
And, with respect to the listing of elementals in the Bestiary, then it was
most definitely not the case that they were the stats for wild or naturally
occuring elementals. Here is the quote from the original entry:
"Elementals are the physical manifestations of the primary
elements. They do not normally exist on this plane, but are
summoned by members of the Elemental Colleges. They
will always be hostile to their summoner, and will attempt to
kill them if they are released from their control. Elementals
are impervious to attacks made with non-magical weapons.
Magic does affect them. Each is vulnerable to its opposite
element and can be damaged by attacks involving that
opposite. Water and fire are opposite members, as are
earth and air. An elemental's Endurance, Fatigue, and
Strength vary according to its summoner's Rank with the
summoning magic. Endurance and Fatigue vary as
described in the summoning magic, while an elemental's
Physical Strength equals a base number for each of the
Elementals plus five for each Rank the summoner has
attained in the summoning magic. "
-The Official DQ GM's Guide Edition 1.0 December 2005
Now, having made these points, I have another, and perhaps more salient
point.
It doesn't matter care what is currently in play or what someone's
interpretation of the bestiary entry is. The concern is whether or not it is
good for the game, and to bog the discussion down into what has gone before
or what a particular entry means is unproductive, particularly when it is so
spurious.
Struan and I have a different opinion to Jono and others, and that's fine.
Let us focus on what makes for a better game.
On 15 June 2010 03:07, Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote:
Struan wrote:
Two changes to the Initial Notes are probably required to remove ambiguity:
a) Add " Neither statistic may be greater than the maximum listed in the
specific Elemental's Bestiary entry." after "An Elementals Fatigue &
Endurance from summoning are to be split approximately to the ratio's given
in the bestiary, of 2 Endurance:3 Fatigue."
Why are you changing this from what is currently in play?
The rules have been; Listings for Elementals in the Bestiary are the stats
on their own plain or natural encountered (wild elemental's)
At the same time an adept with skills in spells or rituals allow the adept
to summon an elemental which have different stats to those in the Bestiary.
You are actively moving away from this. Why?
I don't see this as an error at all. It has been pretty clear for a long
time. When other GMs have asked at gods meetings about this it was discussed
/ explained. It was not seen as an error or noted at broken.
People/GMs can of coarse decide the want a change and that's all good.
Bernard aimed to not changing this section as far as the stats ( EN & Ft)
and leave them in the spells and rituals was discussed at a gods meeting
some time ago.
Kind regards,
Jonathan Bean
H: +64 9 828 2959
M: +64 21 917 173
G: jonobean@gmail.com
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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Elementals in the beastery are =
based on DQ
game where no PC ever got a rk 20 spell let alone a ritual. The =
reality is
that most high level parties laugh unless the elemental has 600EN and at =
least
as much ftg. Well I know I do. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bernard’s changes are good =
GM’s
do what they like <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What’s the =
problem?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>H<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 15, =
2010 11:56
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] =
Elementals as
per new Rulebook</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Georgia'>I don't think this is helpful, because, on the one =
hand,
the points raised are spurious. Struan and I (and others, probably) do =
not
allow elementals to have EN values greater than 50 and FT values greater =
than
85. So, with regard to what is currently in play, it is clear that if =
Jono and
some others have played a different rule, then there is no consensus. =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Georgia'>And, with respect to the listing of elementals in =
the
Bestiary, then it was most definitely not the case that they were the =
stats for
wild or naturally occuring elementals. Here is the quote from the =
original
entry:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>"Elementals
are the physical manifestations of the primary</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>elements.
They do not normally exist on this plane, but are</span></font><font
face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>summoned
by members of the Elemental Colleges. They</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>will
always be hostile to their summoner, and will attempt =
to</span></font><font
face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>kill
them if they are released from their control. =
Elementals</span></font><font
face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>are
impervious to attacks made with non-magical weapons.</span></font><font
face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>Magic
does affect them. Each is vulnerable to its opposite</span></font><font
face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>element
and can be damaged by attacks involving that</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>opposite.
Water and fire are opposite members, as are</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>earth
and air. An elemental's Endurance, Fatigue, and</span></font><font
face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>Strength
vary according to its summoner's Rank with the</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>summoning
magic. Endurance and Fatigue vary as</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>described
in the summoning magic, while an elemental's</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>Physical
Strength equals a base number for each of the</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>Elementals
plus five for each Rank the summoner has</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Garamond'>attained
in the summoning magic. "</span></font><font face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><em><i><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-The
Official DQ GM's Guide Edition 1.0 December =
2005</span></font></i></em><font
face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Now,
having made these points, I have another, and perhaps more salient =
point. </span></font><font
face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>It
doesn't matter care what is currently in play or what someone's
interpretation of the bestiary entry is. The concern is whether or not =
it is
good for the game, and to bog the discussion down into what has gone =
before or
what a particular entry means is unproductive, particularly when it is =
so
spurious. </span></font><font face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Struan
and I have a different opinion to Jono and others, and that's fine. Let =
us
focus on what makes for a better game.</span></font><font =
face=3DGeorgia><span
style=3D'font-family:Georgia'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>On 15 June 2010 03:07, Jonathan Bean <<a
href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
Struan wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Two changes to the Initial Notes are probably required to remove
ambiguity:<br>
a) Add " Neither statistic may be greater than the maximum listed =
in the
specific Elemental's Bestiary entry." after "An Elementals =
Fatigue
& Endurance from summoning are to be split approximately to the =
ratio's
given in the bestiary, of 2 Endurance:3 =
Fatigue."<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Why are you changing this from what is currently in =
play?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>The rules have been; Listings for Elementals in
the Bestiary are the stats on their own plain or
natural encountered =
(wild elemental's) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>At the same time an adept with skills in spells or rituals allow
the adept to summon an elemental which have different stats to =
those
in the Bestiary. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>You are actively moving away from =
this. Why? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I don't see this as an error at all. It has been pretty clear =
for a
long time. When other GMs have asked at gods meetings about this it was
discussed / explained. It was not seen as an error or noted at =
broken.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>People/GMs can of coarse decide the want a change and =
that's all
good. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Bernard aimed to not changing this section as far as the stats ( =
EN
& Ft) and leave them in the spells and rituals was discussed at a =
gods
meeting some time ago.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jonathan Bean<br>
H: +64 9 828 2959<br>
M: +64 21 917 173<br>
G: <a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">jonobean@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01CB0C8E.676B0F70--
-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:31:46 +1200 |
--00163630f1478e4769048907910d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, in response to Hamish initial point, we can indeed make Celestials a branch just on its own, because this is a game of the imagination and any rule is subject to change. And, I suppose that simply saying that making Celestials a branch of magic leads to imbalance without any support is hard to believe in. My suggestion means that, aside from reducing the amount of Magic Resistanc= e you get from a counterspell, there would, in fact, be little difference to individual Celestial Adepts. The status quo could be maintained by saying that aside from non-standard Celestials, the 'branch' counterspells applied to all Celestials, i.e. that for a Namer, in the specific case of this 'branch', the Celestial counterspell applies to all standard Celestial subgroups. *(In an earlier post, lost somewhere above in the huge welter of response is Jono's notion, where the Namer identifies the college that they intend to affect.)* Or, we might decide that a counterspell has to be applied to each particular Celestial subgroup, in which case Celestial Adepts would see a general increase in power. I would prefer that each Celestial subgroup be treated as a distinct college, but I could be swayed. Particularly if Hamish were to lean against me, hefty brute that he is. On 15 June 2010 13:13, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > At the risk of copping Jim=92s ire =96 you can=92t make celestial a bran= ch on > its own just to make 4 branches its incredibly unbalanced. > > > > Why not put celestial back into one collage where adepts can learn all 4 > areas, then put it in elemental. > > > > Hamish > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:11 PM > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > If Celestial is treated as one single college, then it seems to me that a > new Namer would only have three branches, and the most obvious branch to > raise to 20 would be Elemental, since it would cover so many different > colleges. I just don't see this as being much of an advantage. Whereas, I > see little harm arising from making Celestials a separate branch, with > separate 'colleges' inside of it, even for non-Namer Adepts. I suppose t= hey > would have to advance a pair of counterspells for each Celestial 'college= '. > > It will suck a big chunk of Experience out of players and I'm thinking 'W= hy > is this a bad thing?' > > On another note, I think that the single Celestial college is a trope tha= t > has probably passed its use-by date, and I would like to see it expanded > into something a bit more interesting. I see that Andrew Withy (amongst > others) has introduced a number of variants, and it is incredible to me t= hat > I have spent more than 20 years at this game and it never occurred to me > that there might be a Lunar Celestial, or a Celestial Mariner. > > > > > > On 15 June 2010 11:52, Jason Sgagers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > > What make the Single Celestial College harder to counter than any other > single college? > > > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:30 a.m. > > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > I think most of the Namers have been standing well clear, actually. > > Rosemary asked (basically) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, an= d > my position is this. > > A counterspell can be learnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases > Magic Resistance by at least 30 against one college and one body of > knowledge. This is a huge bonus. My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic > Resistance offered by a counterspell to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts t= o > Rank counterspells by college and body of knowledge. > > To mitigate against this, Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of > knowledge, a branch defined as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial an= d > Entity magic. For example, they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge > counterspell and Name the college to be affected as Fire (this is my > revision of Jono's notion, which I like). > > So, to recapitulate the revised proposal: > > > > For non-Namers, there are two differences. > > 1. Out of college counterspells are rankable as if they were Special > Knowledge spells > 2. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the College and body > of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank. > > For Namers, the differences are > > 1. They no longer have college counterspells, instead they have > counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celest= ial, > and Entity. This means that they will have 8 counterspells. > 2. The college to be affected by the branch counterspell is identified > on casting by the Namer. > 3. The bonus to Magic Resistance with respect to the Branch and body o= f > knowledge is 10+1/Rank. > > With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's Dimensional Weaving, > then either we use the current mechanic or we come up with something new.= I > don't see that there is a problem with this, although I might be missing > something. > > > > > > On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > > Have angry over-worked Namers been spamming the list? :) (I'm still > trying to understand the business requirement for this, if you'll pardon = the > term). > > If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college > specificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing > the 2xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it. > > (Especially since in many cases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and > where it isn't the SK may be). > > Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current rul= es > for acquiring at effective Rk 0. > Everyone else: 2 CS per with smaller bonus, and normal learning and ranki= ng > rules. > > Implementation details left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a > business analyst). :) > > Cheers, > Martin > > > > > --00163630f1478e4769048907910d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Well, in response to Hamish initial point= , we can indeed make Celestials a branch just on its own, because this is a= game of the imagination and any rule is subject to change. And, I suppose= =A0that simply saying that making Celestials a branch of magic leads to imb= alance without any support is hard to believe in. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">My suggestion means that, aside from=A0re= ducing the amount of=A0Magic Resistance you get from a counterspell, there = would, in fact, be little difference to individual Celestial Adepts. The st= atus quo could be maintained by saying that aside from non-standard Celesti= als, the 'branch' counterspells applied to all Celestials, i.e. tha= t for a Namer, in the specific case of this 'branch', the Celestial= counterspell applies to all standard Celestial subgroups. <em>(In an earli= er post, lost=A0somewhere above in the=A0huge welter of response is Jono= 9;s notion, where the Namer identifies the college that they=A0intend to af= fect.)</em>=A0=A0Or, we might decide that a counterspell has to be applied = to each particular Celestial subgroup, in which case Celestial Adepts would= see a general increase in power.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">I would prefer that each Celestial subgroup be = treated as a distinct college, but I could be swayed. Particularly if Hamis= h were to lean against me, hefty brute that he is.</font><br></div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 13:13, Hamish Brown <span dir=3D= "ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz">perfect_brown@xtra.co= .nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-US" vlink=3D"blue" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">At the risk of = copping Jim=92s ire =96 you can=92t make celestial a branch on its own just= to make 4 branches its incredibly unbalanced.</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Why not put cel= estial back into one collage where adepts can learn all 4 areas, then put i= t in elemental.</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hamish</span></= font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Ro= man"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></di= v> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <div> <div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><fon= t size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%"> </span></font></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"F= ONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></font>= </b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FO= NT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">= dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:= bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 15, 201= 0 12:11 PM=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <= a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>= </div> <div class=3D"im"><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> = Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</div></span></font> <p></p></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">If Celestial is treated as one single c= ollege, then it seems to me that a new=A0Namer would only have three branch= es, and the most obvious branch to raise to 20 would be Elemental, since it= would cover so many different colleges. I just don't see this as being= much of an advantage. Whereas, I see little harm arising from making Celes= tials a separate branch, with separate 'colleges' inside of it, eve= n for non-Namer Adepts.=A0 I suppose they would have to advance a pair of c= ounterspells for each Celestial 'college'. </span></font></p> </div> <div class=3D"im"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It will suck a=A0big chunk=A0of Experie= nce out of players and I'm thinking 'Why is this a bad thing?'<= /span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On another note, I think that the singl= e Celestial college is a trope that has probably passed its use-by date, an= d I would like to see it expanded into something a bit more interesting. I = see that Andrew Withy (amongst others) has introduced a number of variants,= and it is incredible to me that I have spent more than 20 years at this ga= me and it never occurred to me that there might be a Lunar Celestial, or a = Celestial Mariner.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br></span></font><br>=A0</p></div></di= v> <div> <div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On 15 June 2010 11:52, Jason Sgagers <<a href=3D"m= ailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a= >> wrote:</span></font></p> </div> <div vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New= Roman"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">What= make the Single Celestial College harder to counter than any other single = college?</span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New= Roman"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0<= /span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New= Roman"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0<= /span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New= Roman"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0<= /span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p></div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span s= tyle=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></font></b><font si= ze=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.= org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mail= to:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><= span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010= 11:30 a.m. </span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <div class=3D"im"><br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <= a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>= </div> <div class=3D"im"><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> = Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</div></span></font> <p></p></p></div></div> <div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">I think most of the Name= rs have been standing well clear, actually.</span></font><span lang=3D"EN-N= Z"></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">Rosemary asked (basicall= y) what was broken that it needed to be fixed, and my position is this.</sp= an></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">A counterspell can be le= arnt by any Adept. When it is used, it increases Magic Resistance by at lea= st 30 against one college and one body of knowledge. This is a huge bonus. = My proposal is to reduce the nett Magic Resistance offered by a counterspel= l to 10 + 1/Rank but to allow Adepts to Rank counterspells by college and b= ody of knowledge. </span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">To mitigate against this= , Namers Rank counterspells by branch and body of knowledge, a branch defin= ed as being Thaumaturgy, Elemental, Celestial and Entity magic. For example= ,=A0they cast their Elemental Special Knowledge counterspell and=A0Name the= college to be affected as Fire (this is my revision of Jono's notion, = which I like). </span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">So, to recapitulate the = revised proposal:</span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">For non-Namers, there are two differen= ces. </span></font></p></div> <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">Out of college counterspells are rank= able as if they were Special Knowledge spells</span></font></li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">The bonus to Magic Resistance with re= spect to the College and body of knowledge is 10 +1/Rank.</span></font></li= ></ol> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">For Namers, the differences are</span>= </font></p></div> <ol type=3D"1"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">They no longer have college countersp= ells, instead they have counterspells that affect branches, i.e.Thaumaturgy= , Elemental, Celestial, and Entity. This means that they will have 8=A0 cou= nterspells. </span></font></li> <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">The college to be affected by the bra= nch counterspell is=A0identified on casting by the Namer.</span></font></li= > <li class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">The bonus to Magic Resistance with re= spect to the Branch and body of knowledge is 10+1/Rank.</span></font></li><= /ol> <p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt= " lang=3D"EN-NZ">With regard to non-standard colleges, like William's D= imensional Weaving, then either we use the current mechanic or we come up w= ith something new. I don't see that there is a problem with this, altho= ugh I might be missing something.</span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">On 15 June 2010 09:06, Martin Dickson = <<a href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">martin.di= ckson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">Have angry over-worked Namers been spa= mming the list?=A0 :)=A0 (I'm still trying to understand the business r= equirement for this, if you'll pardon the term).<br> <br>If we did want to reduce the CS load on Namers, but retain college spec= ificity, and still offer them a bonus over non-Namers then collapsing the 2= xCS per College to 1 CS per would do it.<br><br>(Especially since in many c= ases the GK counter is pretty pointless... and where it isn't the SK ma= y be).<br> <br>Namers: 1 CS per with a decent bonus (and Quick-casting), and current r= ules for acquiring at effective Rk 0. <br>Everyone else: 2 CS per with smal= ler bonus, and normal learning and ranking rules.<br><br>Implementation det= ails left as an exercise to the developers... I'm a business analyst). = :)<br> <br>Cheers,<br><font color=3D"#888888"><span style=3D"COLOR: #888888">Marti= n</span></font></span></font></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></font></p></div></div></div= ></div></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></div></div></blockquote></div><= br> --00163630f1478e4769048907910d-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:45:47 +1200 |
--0016e64cba08a7f017048907c3d2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience and re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think it's better if the mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM's or a player's creativity. Of course, we need some shared understanding of what the 'bedrock' of our game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amount of consistency is 'jus= t enough'. I suppose others may have different opinions on this, and it probably boils down to a matter of taste. I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewer moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment of wonder. To that end, I find myself on the side of the fence which is resistant to binding DMs to the rules too tightly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean that I can see it, vaguely, in the distance, occasionally lost in the mist. On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > Non-College, or Non-Standard College? > > Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no > college" works against the general game mechanic. > > Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-on= e > has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edg= e > away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended to > cripple namers. > > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz>w= rote: > >> Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in >> the use of non college magics by GM=92s. This pretty much nullifies the >> Namers abilities. >> >> >> >> This is something that could be the namer special things over and above >> counters of other adepts. >> >> >> > --0016e64cba08a7f017048907c3d2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">It seems to me that we play games of this= kind to experience and re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I th= ink=A0 it's better if the mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn'= t interfere with a DM's or a player's creativity. Of course, we nee= d some=A0shared understanding of what the 'bedrock' of our game=A0r= eality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to pin everything down. I belie= ve that the ideal amount of consistency is 'just enough'. I suppose= others may have different opinions on this, and it probably boils down to = a matter of taste. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I opine that as DMs become more conformis= t to a ruleset,=A0then we see=A0fewer moments of wonder. And, I'm about= capturing that moment of wonder.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">To that end, I find myself on the side of= the fence which is resistant to binding DMs to the rules too tightly. Well= , when I say 'fence', I mean that I can see it, vaguely, in the dis= tance, occasionally lost in the mist.<br> </font><br></div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gma= il.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Non-College, or Non-Standard Col= lege?<br><br>Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making th= e magic "no college" works against the general game mechanic.<br> <br>Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to mak= e sure no-one has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese = College", but edge away from non-college unless really necessary... or= actually intended to cripple namers. <br> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"><br><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <= span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" target=3D"_= blank">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0= pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11p= t">Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in = the use of non college magics by GM=92s.=A0 This pretty much nullifies the = Namers abilities.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11p= t">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11p= t">This is something that could be the namer special things over and above = counters of other adepts.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11p= t">=A0</span><br></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquot= e></div><br> --0016e64cba08a7f017048907c3d2-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:53:42 +1200 |
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Given what you have quoted... It isn't a moment of wonder we you have the
ability for the character to do anything ripped out from underneath you..
but more of one a frustration as you work out what you can now bring to the
solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities gone.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience and
re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think it's better if the
mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM's or a
player's creativity. Of course, we need some shared understanding of what
the 'bedrock' of our game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to
pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amount of consistency is 'just
enough'. I suppose others may have different opinions on this, and it
probably boils down to a matter of taste.
I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewer
moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment of wonder.
To that end, I find myself on the side of the fence which is resistant to
binding DMs to the rules too tightly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean that
I can see it, vaguely, in the distance, occasionally lost in the mist.
On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:
Non-College, or Non-Standard College?
Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no
college" works against the general game mechanic.
Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-one
has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edge
away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended to
cripple namers.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz>
wrote:
Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in the
use of non college magics by GM's. This pretty much nullifies the Namers
abilities.
This is something that could be the namer special things over and above
counters of other adepts.
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Given what you have quoted... It isn’t a moment of =
wonder we you
have the ability for the character to do anything ripped out from =
underneath
you.. but more of one a frustration as you work out what you can =
now bring to
the solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities =
gone.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell =
proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>It =
seems to me
that we play games of this kind to experience and re-experience a sense =
of
wonder and amazement. I think it's better if the mechanic is =
plastic
enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM's or a player's creativity. =
Of
course, we need some shared understanding of what the 'bedrock' of =
our
game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to pin everything =
down.
I believe that the ideal amount of consistency is 'just enough'. I =
suppose
others may have different opinions on this, and it probably boils down =
to a
matter of taste. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I =
opine that as
DMs become more conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewer =
moments of
wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment of =
wonder.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>To
that end, I find myself on the side of the fence which is resistant to =
binding
DMs to the rules too tightly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean that I =
can see
it, vaguely, in the distance, occasionally lost in the =
mist.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <<a
href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gmail.com</a>>=
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Non-College, or Non-Standard College?<br>
<br>
Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic =
"no
college" works against the general game mechanic.<br>
<br>
Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make =
sure
no-one has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese
College", but edge away from non-college unless really necessary... =
or
actually intended to cripple namers. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers =
<<a
href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Something that I have been =
coming across
as a Namer, is an increased in the use of non college magics by =
GM’s.
This pretty much nullifies the Namers abilities.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This is something that could be =
the
namer special things over and above counters of other =
adepts.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:00:30 +1200 |
--00c09f90603d5546dd048907f8dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I started this thread, and my original post was to say that I won't use elementals the way Bernard's revision works. Although if you come along on one of my games, I might do it just for you, Hamish. As you say, DMs do what they like. I, Struan and perhaps others are doing what we like. The post you have quoted and my impression of what you mean don't gibe, although given the amount of stuff to wade through on this thread, it may b= e that, in desperation, you took a stab at a likely looking response. That post you have chosen, pared down to the essential details (which I loathe doing since gives me much less time to listen to the sound of my own voice)= , is that it is better to discuss the matter in terms of what is beneficial t= o the game, not the history from which these rules spring. Because, who cares what the provenance of a rule is? The important issue is whether it's any good for the game. On 15 June 2010 13:26, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > Elementals in the beastery are based on DQ game where no PC ever got a r= k > 20 spell let alone a ritual. The reality is that most high level parties > laugh unless the elemental has 600EN and at least as much ftg. Well I kn= ow > I do. > > > > Bernard=92s changes are good GM=92s do what they like > > > > What=92s the problem? > > > > H > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:56 AM > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Elementals as per new Rulebook > > > > I don't think this is helpful, because, on the one hand, the points raise= d > are spurious. Struan and I (and others, probably) do not allow elementals= to > have EN values greater than 50 and FT values greater than 85. So, with > regard to what is currently in play, it is clear that if Jono and some > others have played a different rule, then there is no consensus. > > And, with respect to the listing of elementals in the Bestiary, then it w= as > most definitely not the case that they were the stats for wild or natural= ly > occuring elementals. Here is the quote from the original entry: > > "Elementals are the physical manifestations of the primary > > elements. They do not normally exist on this plane, but are > > summoned by members of the Elemental Colleges. They > > will always be hostile to their summoner, and will attempt to > > kill them if they are released from their control. Elementals > > are impervious to attacks made with non-magical weapons. > > Magic does affect them. Each is vulnerable to its opposite > > element and can be damaged by attacks involving that > > opposite. Water and fire are opposite members, as are > > earth and air. An elemental's Endurance, Fatigue, and > > Strength vary according to its summoner's Rank with the > > summoning magic. Endurance and Fatigue vary as > > described in the summoning magic, while an elemental's > > Physical Strength equals a base number for each of the > > Elementals plus five for each Rank the summoner has > > attained in the summoning magic. " > > *-The Official DQ GM's Guide Edition 1.0 December 2005* > > Now, having made these points, I have another, and perhaps more salient > point. > > It doesn't matter care what is currently in play or what someone's > interpretation of the bestiary entry is. The concern is whether or not it= is > good for the game, and to bog the discussion down into what has gone befo= re > or what a particular entry means is unproductive, particularly when it is= so > spurious. > > Struan and I have a different opinion to Jono and others, and that's fine= . > Let us focus on what makes for a better game. > > On 15 June 2010 03:07, Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Struan wrote: > > Two changes to the Initial Notes are probably required to remove > ambiguity: > a) Add " Neither statistic may be greater than the maximum listed in the > specific Elemental's Bestiary entry." after "An Elementals Fatigue & > Endurance from summoning are to be split approximately to the ratio's giv= en > in the bestiary, of 2 Endurance:3 Fatigue." > > > > Why are you changing this from what is currently in play? > > > > The rules have been; Listings for Elementals in the Bestiary are the stat= s > on their own plain or natural encountered (wild elemental's) > > At the same time an adept with skills in spells or rituals allow > the adept to summon an elemental which have different stats to those in > the Bestiary. > > > > You are actively moving away from this. Why? > > > > I don't see this as an error at all. It has been pretty clear for a long > time. When other GMs have asked at gods meetings about this it was discus= sed > / explained. It was not seen as an error or noted at broken. > > > > People/GMs can of coarse decide the want a change and that's all good. > > Bernard aimed to not changing this section as far as the stats ( EN & Ft) > and leave them in the spells and rituals was discussed at a gods meeting > some time ago. > > > > > > Kind regards, > > Jonathan Bean > H: +64 9 828 2959 > M: +64 21 917 173 > G: jonobean@gmail.com > > > --00c09f90603d5546dd048907f8dc Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I started this thread, and my original po= st=A0was to say=A0that I=A0won't=A0use elementals=A0the way=A0Bernard&#= 39;s revision works. Although if you come along on one of my games,=A0I mig= ht do it just for you, Hamish.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">As you say, DMs do what they like. I, Str= uan and perhaps others are doing what we like.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">The post you have quoted and my impressio= n of what you mean don't gibe, although given the amount of stuff to wa= de through on this thread, it may be that, in desperation, you took a stab = at a likely looking response. That post you have chosen, pared down to the = essential details (which I loathe doing since=A0gives me=A0much less time t= o listen to the sound of my own voice), is that it is better to discuss the= matter in terms of what is beneficial to the game, not the history from wh= ich=A0these rules=A0spring.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">Because, who cares what the provenance of a rul= e is? </font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">The important issue is whether it's any goo= d for the game.</font><br></div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 13:26, Hamish Brown <span dir=3D= "ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz">perfect_brown@xtra.co= .nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-US" vlink=3D"blue" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Elementals in t= he beastery are based on DQ game where no PC ever got a rk 20 spell let alo= ne a ritual.=A0 The reality is that most high level parties laugh unless th= e elemental has 600EN and at least as much ftg.=A0 Well I know I do.=A0 </s= pan></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Bernard=92s cha= nges are good GM=92s do what they like </span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">What=92s the pr= oblem?</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">H</span></font>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <div> <div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><fon= t size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%"> </span></font></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"F= ONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></font>= </b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FO= NT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">= dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:= bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 15, 201= 0 11:56 AM=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <= a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>= <b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Elemental= s as per new Rulebook</div> </span></font> <p></p></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I don't think this is helpful, beca= use, on the one hand, the points raised are spurious. Struan and I (and oth= ers, probably) do not allow elementals to have EN values greater than 50 an= d FT values greater than 85. So, with regard to what is currently in play, = it is clear that if Jono and some others have played a different rule, then= there is no consensus. </span></font></p> </div> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">And, with respect to the listing of ele= mentals in the Bestiary, then it was most definitely not the case that they= were the stats for wild or naturally occuring elementals. Here is the quot= e from the original entry:</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">"Elementals are the physical manifestations of the p= rimary</span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Geor= gia"></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">elements. They do not normally exist on this plane, but a= re</span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"= ></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">summoned by members of the Elemental Colleges. They</span= ></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></span>= </font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">will always be hostile to their summoner, and will attemp= t to</span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgi= a"></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">kill them if they are released from their control. Elemen= tals</span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgi= a"></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">are impervious to attacks made with non-magical weapons.<= /span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></= span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Magic does affect them. Each is vulnerable to its opposit= e</span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">= </span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">element and can be damaged by attacks involving that</spa= n></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></span= ></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">opposite. Water and fire are opposite members, as are</sp= an></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></spa= n></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">earth and air. An elemental's Endurance, Fatigue, and= </span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><= /span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Strength vary according to its summoner's Rank with t= he</span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"= ></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">summoning magic. Endurance and Fatigue vary as</span></fo= nt><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></span></fon= t></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">described in the summoning magic, while an elemental'= s</span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">= </span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Physical Strength equals a base number for each of the</s= pan></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></sp= an></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Elementals plus five for each Rank the summoner has</span= ></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></span>= </font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Garamond"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Garamond;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt">attained in the summoning magic. "</span></font><fon= t face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></span></font></p> <p><em><i><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZ= E: 10pt">-The Official DQ GM's Guide Edition 1.0 December 2005</span></= font></i></em><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><= /span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; F= ONT-SIZE: 10pt">Now, having made these points, I have another, and perhaps = more salient point. </span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FON= T-FAMILY: Georgia"></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; F= ONT-SIZE: 10pt">It doesn't matter=A0care what is currently in play or w= hat someone's interpretation of the bestiary entry is. The concern is w= hether or not it is good for the game, and to bog the discussion down into = what has gone before or what a particular entry means is unproductive, part= icularly when it is so spurious. </span></font><font face=3D"Georgia"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; F= ONT-SIZE: 10pt">Struan and I have a different opinion to Jono and others, a= nd that's fine. Let us focus on what makes for a better game.</span></f= ont><font face=3D"Georgia"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On 15 June 2010 03:07, Jonathan Bean <<a href=3D"m= ailto:jonobean@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jonobean@gmail.com</a>> wrot= e:</span></font></p> </div> <div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt s= olid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LE= FT: 4.8pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium= none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br>Struan wrote:</span></font></p> <div> <div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt s= olid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LE= FT: 4.8pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium= none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Two changes to the Initial Notes are probably require= d to remove ambiguity:<br>a) Add " Neither statistic may be greater th= an the maximum listed in the specific Elemental's Bestiary entry."= after "An Elementals Fatigue & Endurance from summoning are to be= split approximately to the ratio's given in the bestiary, of 2 Enduran= ce:3 Fatigue."</span></font></p> </div></div></blockquote> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></div></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Why are you changing this from what is currently in p= lay?</span></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The rules have been; Listings for Elementals in the= =A0Bestiary=A0are the stats on their own plain or natural=A0encountered (wi= ld=A0elemental's)=A0=A0</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">At the same time an adept with skills in spells or ri= tuals allow the=A0adept=A0to summon an elemental which have different stats= to those in the=A0Bestiary.=A0</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">You are actively moving away from this.=A0Why?=A0</sp= an></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I don't see this as an error at all. It has been = pretty clear for a long time. When other GMs have asked at gods meetings ab= out this it was discussed / explained. It was not seen as an error or noted= at broken.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">People/GMs can of=A0coarse decide the want a change a= nd that's all good.=A0</span></font></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bernard aimed to not changing this section as far as = the stats ( EN & Ft) and leave them in the spells and rituals was discu= ssed at a gods meeting some time ago.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></div></div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Kind regards,<br><br>Jonathan Bean<br>H: +64 9 828 29= 59<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com" target= =3D"_blank">jonobean@gmail.com</a></span></font></p> </div></div></blockquote></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=A0</span></font></p></div></div></div></div></blockq= uote></div><br> --00c09f90603d5546dd048907f8dc-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Michael Parkinson |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:02:22 +1200 |
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"Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus =
for returning to areas."
Sorry, those are NOT good reasons ... because of game mechanics.
True, it takes little effort for a Namer to learn the counter, but don't fo=
rget that by adding "flavour", the GM has manipulated the situation so that=
the NPCs get at least one free combat where there is NO counter to their m=
agic (unless the rest of the party is prepared to hold of the enemy for the=
hour it takes to divinate); and then, typically, for the rest of the adven=
ture the counter spells are only Rank-0.
If the party/guild IS keen to return to the area, the Namer then has to spe=
nd THREE weeks teaching that ctr-special to other non-namer mages who under=
standably feel the need for protection against "blood-magics" or whatever (=
that's three weeks over and above the THREE weeks taken by the namer to rea=
ch rank-6the minimum rank where it may be taught to a non-namer). The last=
time I was in this situation, I was interested in returning to the area, e=
xcept player-I was unable to do what character-I wanted [game-mechanic reas=
on].
Regardless of what it good/bad for the game, one thing I personally like ab=
out Martin's suggestion (only ONE counter per college) is that my character=
's spell spreadsheet would no longer need to be in 7-point to fit all the c=
ounterspells on one page.
Michael
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Err=
ol Cavit
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:40 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
"I'd like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College's"
Refunding (now irrelevant) time and EP already spent (often 1 hour and 0EP =
for a Namer) isn't a benefit, it's a natural part of the conversion process=
. I thought that my follow-up made it especially clear that my desire was f=
or an continuing benefit, not credit for existing knowledge.
Errol
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim=
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
So, why doesn't this addresss your point?
On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com<mailto:Errol.=
Cavit@tollgroup.com>> wrote:
You haven't addressed my point.
Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus f=
or returning to areas. I'd prefer Namers to continue to have a game-mechani=
c reason to collect them (remembering that they get the Counterspells at Ra=
nk0 with relatively little effort).
The specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email bel=
ow addresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be 'familiar' with a Colleg=
e to specify it as the target of their ire.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz<mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz> [mailto:dq-owner@=
dq.sf.org.nz<mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz>] On Behalf Of Jim Arona
Sent: Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-standa=
rd colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if you a=
lready have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to spend elsewh=
ere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend on magic=
.
On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com<mailto:Errol.=
Cavit@tollgroup.com>> wrote:
Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I'd like to see a=
benefit for knowing a non-standard College's. Perhaps half effectiveness i=
f you don't know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer Co=
llege).
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<div class=3DWordSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif";
color:red'>“Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flav=
our,
and a bonus for returning to areas.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif";
color:red'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'>Sorry,
those are NOT good reasons … because of game mechanics.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'>True,
it takes little effort for a Namer to learn the counter, but don’t fo=
rget
that by adding “flavour”, the GM has manipulated the situation =
so
that the NPCs get <i>at least</i> one free combat where there is NO counter=
to
their magic (unless the rest of the party is prepared to hold of the enemy =
for
the hour it takes to divinate); and then, typically, for the rest of the ad=
venture
the counter spells are only Rank-0. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'>If
the party/guild IS keen to return to the area, the Namer then has to spend =
<b>THREE</b>
weeks teaching that ctr-special to other non-namer mages who understandably
feel the need for protection against “blood-magics” or whatever=
(that’s
three weeks over and above the THREE weeks taken by the namer to reach rank=
-6the
minimum rank where it may be taught to a non-namer). The last time I =
was
in this situation, I was interested in returning to the area, except player=
-I
was unable to do what character-I wanted [game-mechanic reason]. <o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'>Regardless
of what it good/bad for the game, one thing I personally like about Martin&=
#8217;s
suggestion (only ONE counter per college) is that my character’s spel=
l
spreadsheet would no longer need to be in 7-point to fit all the counterspe=
lls
on one page.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'>Michael<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",=
"sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Errol Cavit<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>“=
I’d
like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College’s”<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Refundi=
ng (now
irrelevant) time and EP already spent (often 1 hour and 0EP for a Namer)
isn’t a benefit, it’s a natural part of the conversion process.=
I
thought that my follow-up made it especially clear that my desire was for a=
n
continuing benefit, not credit for existing knowledge.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Errol</=
span><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Georgia","serif"'>So,
why doesn't this addresss your point?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <<a
href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You haven’t addressed my poi=
nt.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Encountering and learning non-stan=
dard
Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus for returning to areas. I’d prefer
Namers to continue to have a game-mechanic reason to collect them (remember=
ing
that they get the Counterspells at Rank0 with relatively little effort).</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The specify-College-when-casting
modification suggested after the email below addresses this, assuming that =
a
Namer has to be ‘familiar’ with a College to specify it as the
target of their ire.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=
=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner=
@dq.sf.org.nz</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.or=
g.nz</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>The benefit would be that a) you wo=
uldn't
need to learn and Rank non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit
inside one branch, and b) if you already have, you would get the Experience=
and
time refunded to spend elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pi=
le
of stuff to spend on magic.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>On
14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <<a href=3D"mailto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup=
.com"
target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Without commenting on the overall =
merits
of the proposal, I’d like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard
College’s. Perhaps half effectiveness if you don’t know the act=
ual
college (standard colleges learnt with Namer College).</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Errol Cavit |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:17:07 +1200 |
--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF3068nzexmaln01tol_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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My experience has generally been that GMs make standard Counterspells have =
some usefulness in these circumstances. It is a consideration however, and =
WordSmith is currently tossing up between getting Disjunction (stop all sto=
red magic) and further ranking Dispel Magic (remove running College spells)=
primarily on this basis. Bane is also non-College-dependent.
Errol
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mar=
tin Dickson
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:16 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
Non-College, or Non-Standard College?
Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no colle=
ge" works against the general game mechanic.
Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-one =
has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edge =
away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended to cr=
ipple namers.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz<mai=
lto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz>> wrote:
Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in the=
use of non college magics by GM's. This pretty much nullifies the Namers =
abilities.
This is something that could be the namer special things over and above cou=
nters of other adepts.
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>My experience has generally been that GMs make standard Coun=
terspells
have some usefulness in these circumstances. It is a consideration however,=
and
WordSmith is currently tossing up between getting Disjunction (stop all sto=
red
magic) and further ranking Dispel Magic (remove running College spells)
primarily on this basis. Bane is also non-College-dependent.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Errol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Dickson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:16 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Non-College, or Non-Sta=
ndard
College?<br>
<br>
Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no
college" works against the general game mechanic.<br>
<br>
Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make su=
re
no-one has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese
College", but edge away from non-college unless really necessary... or
actually intended to cripple namers. <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <<a
href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a>> wro=
te:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Something that I have been coming =
across
as a Namer, is an increased in the use of non college magics by
GM’s. This pretty much nullifies the Namers abilities.</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This is something that could be th=
e
namer special things over and above counters of other adepts.</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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</body>
</html>
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-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:10:23 +1200 |
--00c09fa21e6ea36d3e0489081b02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > Of course, we need some shared understanding of what the 'bedrock' of our > game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to pin everything down. > Yes, I certainly wouldn't argue for legislating around the use / non-use of non-college magic (to use the example at hand), rather just that GMs need to remember that much of the game's mechanics, and by extension most of the player's character abilities, items, etc are built around various concepts like college, ability score, rank, and so forth. When the horror-from-beyond has weird magic, no weapon ranks (just SC), and natural weaponry based on non-Euclidean geometry such that it's not A, B, or C class... Muwhaaahaaahaaaa... we need to be aware that this will futz many of character's spells, abilities, items, yadda yadda... and as Jason points out, frustration may well over-shadow any wonder... well, until they go mad I guess. :) --00c09fa21e6ea36d3e0489081b02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Jim Arona <span= dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com">jim.arona@gmail.com= </a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= : 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-lef= t: 1ex;"> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">=A0Of course, we need some=A0shared under= standing of what the 'bedrock' of our game=A0reality is, but I beli= eve it to be a mistake to pin everything down.</font></div></blockquote><di= v><br> Yes, I certainly wouldn't argue for legislating around the use / non-us= e of non-college magic (to use the example at hand), rather just that GMs n= eed to remember that much of the game's mechanics, and by extension mos= t of the player's character abilities, items, etc are built around vari= ous concepts like college, ability score, rank, and so forth.<br> <br>When the horror-from-beyond has weird magic, no weapon ranks (just SC),= and natural weaponry based on non-Euclidean geometry such that it's no= t A, B, or C class... Muwhaaahaaahaaaa... we need to be aware that this wil= l futz many of character's spells, abilities, items, yadda yadda... and= as Jason points out, frustration may well over-shadow any wonder... well, = until they go mad I guess. :)<br> </div></div> --00c09fa21e6ea36d3e0489081b02-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:23:11 +1200 |
--00c09f90603d759dfe048908498f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, sadly, in a game of imagination, there is not much you can point to say and say 'This is engraved in stone and will not change'. And, neither should there be. Obviously, there needs to be some degree of consistency. Without it, it's at least hard for a pc to make predictions or plan or do all the stuff that we want to see from them. It might even be impossible. That said, the only games that do not change are games that no one plays. Dungeons & Dragons is now in it's fifth incarnation. On the other hand, I have never seen an update for Skyrealms of Jorune or Talislanta. It is inevitable that the abilities of players are going to change from tim= e to time. When this stops, the game will be over. It is bootless for a playe= r to demand a game where there is no revision. If that were the case, we woul= d still be using the same ruleset we started with in the 80s. We have changed things, and we have not changed them back. We must like them, then. With respect to this particular proposal, I cannot see what basic ability a Namer has lost, beyond the reduced Magic Resistance bonus. The Experience and training time returned to a Namer with substantial Ranks in college counterspells would be enormous, as the number of spells drops from 38 standard counterspells to 8. The bookkeeping would be a great deal easier t= o deal with, as well. For non-Namers, counterspells now become an Experience sink, which is no ba= d thing. They get to remove it from their MA, increase the duration and range= , for all that it's a SK spell of your college. I don't see this as a bad thing. What basic ability do you see as going, Jason? On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > Given what you have quoted... It isn=92t a moment of wonder we you have = the > ability for the character to do anything ripped out from underneath you.. > but more of one a frustration as you work out what you can now bring to = the > solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities gone. > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m. > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal > > > > It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience and > re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think it's better if th= e > mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM's or a > player's creativity. Of course, we need some shared understanding of what > the 'bedrock' of our game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to > pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amount of consistency is 'j= ust > enough'. I suppose others may have different opinions on this, and it > probably boils down to a matter of taste. > > I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewe= r > moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment of wonder. > > To that end, I find myself on the side of the fence which is resistant to > binding DMs to the rules too tightly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean th= at > I can see it, vaguely, in the distance, occasionally lost in the mist. > > On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > > Non-College, or Non-Standard College? > > Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no > college" works against the general game mechanic. > > Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-on= e > has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edg= e > away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended to > cripple namers. > > > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> > wrote: > > Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in t= he > use of non college magics by GM=92s. This pretty much nullifies the Name= rs > abilities. > > > > This is something that could be the namer special things over and above > counters of other adepts. > > > > > --00c09f90603d759dfe048908498f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Well, sadly, in a game of imagination, th= ere is not much you can point to say and say 'This is engraved in stone= and will not change'. And, neither should there be. Obviously, there n= eeds to be some degree of consistency. Without it, it's at least hard f= or a pc=A0to make predictions=A0or plan or do all the stuff that we want to= see from them. It might even be impossible.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">That said, the only games that do not change ar= e games that no one plays. Dungeons & Dragons is now in it's fifth = incarnation. On the other hand, I have never seen an update for Skyrealms o= f Jorune or Talislanta. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">It is inevitable that the abilities of players = are going to change from time to time. When this stops, the game will be ov= er. It is bootless for a player to demand a game where there is no revision= . If that were the case, we would still be using the same ruleset we starte= d with in the 80s. We have changed things, and we have not changed them bac= k. We must like them, then.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">With respect to this particular proposal, I can= not see what basic ability a Namer has lost, beyond the reduced Magic Resis= tance bonus. The Experience and training time returned to a Namer with subs= tantial Ranks in college counterspells would be enormous, as the number of = spells drops from 38 standard counterspells to 8. The bookkeeping would be = a great deal easier to deal with, as well. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">For non-Namers, counterspells now become an Exp= erience sink, which is no bad thing. They get to remove it from their MA, i= ncrease the duration and range, for all that it's=A0a SK spell of your = college. I don't see this as a bad thing.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">What basic ability do you see as going, Jason?<= /font><br></div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.c= o.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Give= n what you have quoted... It isn=92t a moment of wonder we you have the abi= lity for the character to do anything ripped out from underneath you.. but = more of one a frustration as you work out =A0what you can now bring to the = solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities gone.</span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailt= o:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b>= Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal</span></p></div> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience an= d re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think=A0 it's better= if the mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM&= #39;s or a player's creativity. Of course, we need some=A0shared unders= tanding of what the 'bedrock' of our game=A0reality is, but I belie= ve it to be a mistake to pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amou= nt of consistency is 'just enough'. I suppose others may have diffe= rent opinions on this, and it probably boils down to a matter of taste. </s= pan></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset,=A0then= we see=A0fewer moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment= of wonder.</span></p> </div> <div> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: 'Georgia', 'serif'">To that end, I find myself on the= side of the fence which is resistant to binding DMs to the rules too tight= ly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean that I can see it, vaguely, in= the distance, occasionally lost in the mist.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <<a href=3D= "mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">martin.dickson@gmail.co= m</a>> wrote:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Non-College, or Non-Standard College?<br><br>Perhaps= that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no col= lege" works against the general game mechanic.<br><br>Have "Chees= e College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-one has en= countered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but e= dge away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended t= o cripple namers. </p> <div> <div> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <<= a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darkso= ft.co.nz</a>> wrote:</p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Some= thing that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in the use= of non college magics by GM=92s.=A0 This pretty much nullifies the Namers = abilities.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">This= is something that could be the namer special things over and above counter= s of other adepts.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><b= r> --00c09f90603d759dfe048908498f-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Andrew Withy |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:23:42 +1200 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="us-ascii"
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One approach taken currently by several GMs to address the problem of Namers
having a large number of specific counter-spells, rather than a small number
of very broad counter-spells is to classify 'new' colleges as near-enough to
existing colleges. In my own case, the evil Scriptomancy college of
Sanctuary is a variant of Rune, and Rune counter-spells work OK. Similarly,
the Serpent magic used in Dakhini (Alusia) is a variant of Water magic, much
to the party's surprise. Some planar magic can be protected against by Rune
or Summoner (and/or Dimensional Weaving) counter-spells. If I used one of
the several blood colleges on a party, I'd expect Druidic or Runic
counter-spells to help. On the other hand, Mime magic is deliberately not
counter-spellable, as it is too alien.
This fudge may be a sign of how desperately we need to change to a
branch-based system, a cop-out by bootless GMs, or a rational compromise.
However, I thought it worthwhile reminding people of a current workaround to
part of the problem that Jim is raising. Considering the
strengths/weaknesses of this existing fudge may help people to reflect on
their own opinions. Of course, it doesn't really address the possibility
that 30+3/Rank is too much MR in too narrow a band.
Regards
Andrew
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One approach =
taken currently
by several GMs to address the problem of Namers having a large number of
specific counter-spells, rather than a small number of very broad
counter-spells is to classify ‘new’ colleges as near-enough =
to existing
colleges. In my own case, the evil Scriptomancy <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st=3D"on">college</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">Sanctuary</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>
is a variant of Rune, and Rune counter-spells work OK. Similarly, the =
Serpent
magic used in Dakhini (Alusia) is a variant of Water magic, much to the =
party’s
surprise. Some planar magic can be protected against by Rune or Summoner =
(and/or
Dimensional Weaving) counter-spells. If I used one of the several blood
colleges on a party, I’d expect Druidic or Runic counter-spells to =
help. On
the other hand, Mime magic is deliberately not counter-spellable, as it =
is too
alien.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This fudge may =
be a sign
of how desperately we need to change to a branch-based system, a cop-out =
by bootless
GMs, or a rational compromise. However, I thought it worthwhile =
reminding
people of a current workaround to part of the problem that Jim is =
raising.
Considering the strengths/weaknesses of this existing fudge may help =
people to
reflect on their own opinions. Of course, it doesn’t really =
address the possibility
that 30+3/Rank is too much MR in too narrow a =
band.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andrew<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:24:39 +1200 |
--00c09f9b0c0fb5263e0489084e8a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm about the madness, too. On 15 June 2010 14:10, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> When the horror-from-beyond has weird magic, no weapon ranks (just SC), >> and natural weaponry based on non-Euclidean geometry such that it's not A, >> B, or C class... Muwhaaahaaahaaaa... we need to be aware that this will futz >> many of character's spells, abilities, items, yadda yadda... and as Jason >> points out, frustration may well over-shadow any wonder... well, until they >> go mad I guess. :) >> > --00c09f9b0c0fb5263e0489084e8a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">I'm about the madness, too.<br></font><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 14:10, Martin Dickson <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gma= il.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div class=3D"im">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Jim Arona <span dir=3D"l= tr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jim.arona@= gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0= pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div><br>When the horror-from-beyond has weird magic, no weapon ranks (just= SC), and natural weaponry based on non-Euclidean geometry such that it'= ;s not A, B, or C class... Muwhaaahaaahaaaa... we need to be aware that thi= s will futz many of character's spells, abilities, items, yadda yadda..= . and as Jason points out, frustration may well over-shadow any wonder... w= ell, until they go mad I guess. :)<br> </div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br> --00c09f9b0c0fb5263e0489084e8a-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Hamish Brown |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:25:21 +1200 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I tried running a game in which it was intended that nothing worked and
everyone went mad as things went along once. As you say Martin it turned
out that it was not fun for the players.
Although I can't understand why I'm sure being mad has its upside
H
_____
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Martin Dickson
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:10 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote:
Of course, we need some shared understanding of what the 'bedrock' of our
game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to pin everything down.
Yes, I certainly wouldn't argue for legislating around the use / non-use of
non-college magic (to use the example at hand), rather just that GMs need to
remember that much of the game's mechanics, and by extension most of the
player's character abilities, items, etc are built around various concepts
like college, ability score, rank, and so forth.
When the horror-from-beyond has weird magic, no weapon ranks (just SC), and
natural weaponry based on non-Euclidean geometry such that it's not A, B, or
C class... Muwhaaahaaahaaaa... we need to be aware that this will futz many
of character's spells, abilities, items, yadda yadda... and as Jason points
out, frustration may well over-shadow any wonder... well, until they go mad
I guess. :)
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<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I tried running a game in which it =
was
intended that nothing worked and everyone went mad as things went along =
once.
As you say Martin it turned out that it was not fun for the =
players.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Although I can’t understand =
why I’m
sure being mad has its upside<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>H</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf Of </span></b>Martin
Dickson<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 15, =
2010 2:10
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Ruleset =
Issues,
was Counterspell proposal</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Jim Arona <<a
href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Georgia'> Of course, we need some shared =
understanding of
what the 'bedrock' of our game reality is, but I believe it to be a
mistake to pin everything down.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
Yes, I certainly wouldn't argue for legislating around the use / non-use =
of
non-college magic (to use the example at hand), rather just that GMs =
need to
remember that much of the game's mechanics, and by extension most of the
player's character abilities, items, etc are built around various =
concepts like
college, ability score, rank, and so forth.<br>
<br>
When the horror-from-beyond has weird magic, no weapon ranks (just SC), =
and
natural weaponry based on non-Euclidean geometry such that it's not A, =
B, or C
class... Muwhaaahaaahaaaa... we need to be aware that this will futz =
many of
character's spells, abilities, items, yadda yadda... and as Jason points =
out,
frustration may well over-shadow any wonder... well, until they go mad I =
guess.
:)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:26:51 +1200 |
--00c09f851b238dbbb204890856b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Go with mine. Then you can use 20 point. On 15 June 2010 14:02, Michael Parkinson <m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz> wrote= : > Regardless of what it good/bad for the game, one thing I personally like > about Martin=92s suggestion (only ONE counter per college) is that my > character=92s spell spreadsheet would no longer need to be in 7-point to = fit > all the counterspells on one page. > > > > Michael > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Errol Cavit > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:40 PM > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > =93I=92d like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s=94 > > > > Refunding (now irrelevant) time and EP already spent (often 1 hour and 0E= P > for a Namer) isn=92t a benefit, it=92s a natural part of the conversion p= rocess. > I thought that my follow-up made it especially clear that my desire was f= or > an continuing benefit, not credit for existing knowledge. > > > > Errol > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m. > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > So, why doesn't this addresss your point? > > On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: > > You haven=92t addressed my point. > > Encountering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus > for returning to areas. I=92d prefer Namers to continue to have a > game-mechanic reason to collect them (remembering that they get the > Counterspells at Rank0 with relatively little effort). > > > > The specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email > below addresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be =91familiar=92 with= a > College to specify it as the target of their ire. > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m. > > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > The benefit would be that a) you wouldn't need to learn and Rank > non-standard colleges, unless they couldn't be fit inside one branch, and= b) > if you already have, you would get the Experience and time refunded to sp= end > elsewhere. It's not like Namers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend = on > magic. > > On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com> wrote: > > Without commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to s= ee a > benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half effectivenes= s if > you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer > College). > > > > > --00c09f851b238dbbb204890856b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">Go with mine. Then you can use 20 point.<br></= font><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 14:02, Michael Parkinson <span d= ir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz">m.parkinson@au= ckland.ac.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regardless of what i= t good/bad for the game, one thing I personally like about Martin=92s sugge= stion (only ONE counter per college) is that my character=92s spell spreads= heet would no longer need to be in 7-point to fit all the counterspells on = one page.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Michael</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></p> <div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Errol Cavit<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailt= o:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b>= Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</span></p></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=93I= =92d like to see a benefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s=94</span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Refu= nding (now irrelevant) time and EP already spent (often 1 hour and 0EP for = a Namer) isn=92t a benefit, it=92s a natural part of the conversion process= . I thought that my follow-up made it especially clear that my desire was f= or an continuing benefit, not credit for existing knowledge.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Erro= l</span><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 11:08 a.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mail= to:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b= > Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</span></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: 'Georgia', 'serif'">So, why doesn't this addresss= your point?</span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 08:40, Errol Cavit <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com" target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com= </a>> wrote:</p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">You = haven=92t addressed my point.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Enco= untering and learning non-standard Colleges adds flavour, and a bonus for r= eturning to areas. I=92d prefer Namers to continue to have a game-mechanic = reason to collect them (remembering that they get the Counterspells at Rank= 0 with relatively little effort).</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The = specify-College-when-casting modification suggested after the email below a= ddresses this, assuming that a Namer has to be =91familiar=92 with a Colleg= e to specify it as the target of their ire.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 14 June 2010 5:09 p.m. </span></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><br><= b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org= .nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</span></p></div><= /div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: 'Georgia', 'serif'">The benefit would be that a) you = wouldn't need to learn and Rank non-standard colleges, unless they coul= dn't be fit inside one branch, and b) if you already have, you would ge= t the Experience and time refunded to spend elsewhere. It's not like Na= mers don't have a huge pile of stuff to spend on magic.</span></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 14 June 2010 15:59, Errol Cavit <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com" target=3D"_blank">Errol.Cavit@tollgroup.com= </a>> wrote:</p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">With= out commenting on the overall merits of the proposal, I=92d like to see a b= enefit for knowing a non-standard College=92s. Perhaps half effectiveness i= f you don=92t know the actual college (standard colleges learnt with Namer = College).</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></blockquote></div><br> --00c09f851b238dbbb204890856b7-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Hamish Brown |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:38:13 +1200 |
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30+ rank is a lot given that it takes most PC's above 100% these days.
I like the suggestion that all / most new collages used existing counters so
that Namers are not stymied. I also like the suggestion that Namers rank SK
and GK as one spell this makes them more uber (they are gods already you
know).
I also like the idea that other collages can rank a range of counter spells
rather than just learn em at RK0, it gives older PC's something to focus on
that can be a useful back up to the party Namer. But lets face it that
prepare action in going to mean they will never be gods like All Namers are.
H
_____
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Andrew Withy
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:24 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
One approach taken currently by several GMs to address the problem of Namers
having a large number of specific counter-spells, rather than a small number
of very broad counter-spells is to classify 'new' colleges as near-enough to
existing colleges. In my own case, the evil Scriptomancy college of
Sanctuary is a variant of Rune, and Rune counter-spells work OK. Similarly,
the Serpent magic used in Dakhini (Alusia) is a variant of Water magic, much
to the party's surprise. Some planar magic can be protected against by Rune
or Summoner (and/or Dimensional Weaving) counter-spells. If I used one of
the several blood colleges on a party, I'd expect Druidic or Runic
counter-spells to help. On the other hand, Mime magic is deliberately not
counter-spellable, as it is too alien.
This fudge may be a sign of how desperately we need to change to a
branch-based system, a cop-out by bootless GMs, or a rational compromise.
However, I thought it worthwhile reminding people of a current workaround to
part of the problem that Jim is raising. Considering the
strengths/weaknesses of this existing fudge may help people to reflect on
their own opinions. Of course, it doesn't really address the possibility
that 30+3/Rank is too much MR in too narrow a band.
Regards
Andrew
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>30+ rank is a lot given that it =
takes most
PC’s above 100% these days.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I like the suggestion that all / =
most new
collages used existing counters so that Namers are not stymied. I =
also
like the suggestion that Namers rank SK and GK as one spell this makes =
them
more uber (they are gods already you know). =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I also like the idea that other =
collages
can rank a range of counter spells rather than just learn em at =
RK0, it
gives older PC’s something to focus on that can be a useful back =
up to
the party Namer. But lets face it that prepare action in going to =
mean
they will never be gods like All Namers =
are.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>H<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Andrew Withy<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 15, =
2010 2:24
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] =
Counterspell
proposal</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One approach =
taken
currently by several GMs to address the problem of Namers having a large =
number
of specific counter-spells, rather than a small number of very broad
counter-spells is to classify ‘new’ colleges as near-enough =
to
existing colleges. In my own case, the evil Scriptomancy <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st=3D"on">college</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">Sanctuary</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>
is a variant of Rune, and Rune counter-spells work OK. Similarly, the =
Serpent
magic used in Dakhini (Alusia) is a variant of Water magic, much to the
party’s surprise. Some planar magic can be protected against by =
Rune or
Summoner (and/or Dimensional Weaving) counter-spells. If I used one of =
the
several blood colleges on a party, I’d expect Druidic or Runic
counter-spells to help. On the other hand, Mime magic is deliberately =
not
counter-spellable, as it is too alien.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This fudge may =
be a sign
of how desperately we need to change to a branch-based system, a cop-out =
by
bootless GMs, or a rational compromise. However, I thought it worthwhile
reminding people of a current workaround to part of the problem that Jim =
is
raising. Considering the strengths/weaknesses of this existing fudge may =
help
people to reflect on their own opinions. Of course, it doesn’t =
really
address the possibility that 30+3/Rank is too much MR in too narrow a =
band.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andrew<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:38:31 +1200 |
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I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular,
other than there specific niche in the game. The limitation (wether good or
bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the
namer a place in the rank of Adepts.
Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to suppressed
a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and do the namer out of
this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the namers reason
for being there in the first place... oh So they can hit things with there
2 handed weapon right.........
Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counters
above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that
other cant.
Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get the
gist of what im saying
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:23 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
Well, sadly, in a game of imagination, there is not much you can point to
say and say 'This is engraved in stone and will not change'. And, neither
should there be. Obviously, there needs to be some degree of consistency.
Without it, it's at least hard for a pc to make predictions or plan or do
all the stuff that we want to see from them. It might even be impossible.
That said, the only games that do not change are games that no one plays.
Dungeons & Dragons is now in it's fifth incarnation. On the other hand, I
have never seen an update for Skyrealms of Jorune or Talislanta.
It is inevitable that the abilities of players are going to change from time
to time. When this stops, the game will be over. It is bootless for a player
to demand a game where there is no revision. If that were the case, we would
still be using the same ruleset we started with in the 80s. We have changed
things, and we have not changed them back. We must like them, then.
With respect to this particular proposal, I cannot see what basic ability a
Namer has lost, beyond the reduced Magic Resistance bonus. The Experience
and training time returned to a Namer with substantial Ranks in college
counterspells would be enormous, as the number of spells drops from 38
standard counterspells to 8. The bookkeeping would be a great deal easier to
deal with, as well.
For non-Namers, counterspells now become an Experience sink, which is no bad
thing. They get to remove it from their MA, increase the duration and range,
for all that it's a SK spell of your college. I don't see this as a bad
thing.
What basic ability do you see as going, Jason?
On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote:
Given what you have quoted... It isn't a moment of wonder we you have the
ability for the character to do anything ripped out from underneath you..
but more of one a frustration as you work out what you can now bring to the
solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities gone.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience and
re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think it's better if the
mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM's or a
player's creativity. Of course, we need some shared understanding of what
the 'bedrock' of our game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to
pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amount of consistency is 'just
enough'. I suppose others may have different opinions on this, and it
probably boils down to a matter of taste.
I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewer
moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment of wonder.
To that end, I find myself on the side of the fence which is resistant to
binding DMs to the rules too tightly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean that
I can see it, vaguely, in the distance, occasionally lost in the mist.
On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:
Non-College, or Non-Standard College?
Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no
college" works against the general game mechanic.
Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-one
has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edge
away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended to
cripple namers.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz>
wrote:
Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in the
use of non college magics by GM's. This pretty much nullifies the Namers
abilities.
This is something that could be the namer special things over and above
counters of other adepts.
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<div class=3DWordSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing =
anything in
particular, other than there specific niche in the game. The =
limitation
(wether good or bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, =
is what
gives the namer a place in the rank of Adepts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a =
namer)
to suppressed a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and =
do the
namer out of this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is =
the
namers reason for being there in the first place... oh So they can =
hit
things with there 2 handed weapon right.........<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only =
one to
have counters above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the =
namer can
do that other cant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can =
at
least get the gist of what im saying<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:23 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell =
proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Well, =
sadly, in
a game of imagination, there is not much you can point to say and say =
'This is
engraved in stone and will not change'. And, neither should there be.
Obviously, there needs to be some degree of consistency. Without it, =
it's at
least hard for a pc to make predictions or plan or do all the =
stuff
that we want to see from them. It might even be =
impossible.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>That =
said, the
only games that do not change are games that no one plays. Dungeons =
&
Dragons is now in it's fifth incarnation. On the other hand, I have =
never seen
an update for Skyrealms of Jorune or Talislanta. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>It is =
inevitable
that the abilities of players are going to change from time to time. =
When this
stops, the game will be over. It is bootless for a player to demand a =
game
where there is no revision. If that were the case, we would still be =
using the
same ruleset we started with in the 80s. We have changed things, and we =
have
not changed them back. We must like them, then.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>With =
respect to
this particular proposal, I cannot see what basic ability a Namer has =
lost,
beyond the reduced Magic Resistance bonus. The Experience and training =
time
returned to a Namer with substantial Ranks in college counterspells =
would be
enormous, as the number of spells drops from 38 standard counterspells =
to 8.
The bookkeeping would be a great deal easier to deal with, as well. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>For =
non-Namers,
counterspells now become an Experience sink, which is no bad thing. They =
get to
remove it from their MA, increase the duration and range, for all that
it's a SK spell of your college. I don't see this as a bad =
thing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>What =
basic
ability do you see as going, Jason?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <<a
href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Given what you have quoted... =
It
isn’t a moment of wonder we you have the ability for the character =
to do
anything ripped out from underneath you.. but more of one a frustration =
as you
work out what you can now bring to the solution and outcome of the
mission, with your basic abilities gone.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell =
proposal</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>It seems to me that we play =
games of this
kind to experience and re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I
think it's better if the mechanic is plastic enough that it =
doesn't
interfere with a DM's or a player's creativity. Of course, we need
some shared understanding of what the 'bedrock' of our =
game reality
is, but I believe it to be a mistake to pin everything down. I believe =
that the
ideal amount of consistency is 'just enough'. I suppose others may have
different opinions on this, and it probably boils down to a matter of =
taste. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I opine that as DMs become more
conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewer moments of wonder. =
And,
I'm about capturing that moment of wonder.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>To that end, I find myself on =
the side of
the fence which is resistant to binding DMs to the rules too tightly. =
Well,
when I say 'fence', I mean that I can see it, vaguely, in the distance,
occasionally lost in the mist.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <<a =
href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com"
target=3D"_blank">martin.dickson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Non-College,=
or Non-Standard College?<br>
<br>
Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic =
"no
college" works against the general game mechanic.<br>
<br>
Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make =
sure
no-one has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese
College", but edge away from non-college unless really necessary... =
or
actually intended to cripple namers. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <<a
href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Something that I have been =
coming across
as a Namer, is an increased in the use of non college magics by
GM’s. This pretty much nullifies the Namers =
abilities.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This is something that could be =
the
namer special things over and above counters of other =
adepts.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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| |
| Subject | [dq] Counterspells In General - Question and Answer Time |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:42:39 +1200 |
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Given the current hot topic on the list, I haven't seen the following
questions answer by anyone in a definitive way.... So
Is the current system broken?
If so, why is it broken?
Is it so broken we need to change to rules?
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xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
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<div class=3DWordSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Given the current hot topic on the list, I =
haven’t seen
the following questions answer by anyone in a definitive way.... =
So<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><u>Is the current system broken?<o:p></o:p></u></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><u>If so, why is it broken?<o:p></o:p></u></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><u>Is it so broken we need to change to =
rules?<o:p></o:p></u></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:56:12 +1200 |
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Primary Reasons to take a Namer on Adventure
1) Counterspells
2) Banish
3) DA (but every man and his dog seems to have this these days)
Yes there are a few others but these seem to be the primary ones that are
requested. Remove the need for the counterspells.... the need for a namer
becomes very minimal.
It just seems to me we are heading more towards the single character being
able to do everything, than having to work with others to get things
done.... Is this something that we want
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Jason Saggers
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:39 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular,
other than there specific niche in the game. The limitation (wether good or
bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the
namer a place in the rank of Adepts.
Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to suppressed
a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and do the namer out of
this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the namers reason
for being there in the first place... oh So they can hit things with there
2 handed weapon right.........
Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counters
above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that
other cant.
Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get the
gist of what im saying
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:23 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
Well, sadly, in a game of imagination, there is not much you can point to
say and say 'This is engraved in stone and will not change'. And, neither
should there be. Obviously, there needs to be some degree of consistency.
Without it, it's at least hard for a pc to make predictions or plan or do
all the stuff that we want to see from them. It might even be impossible.
That said, the only games that do not change are games that no one plays.
Dungeons & Dragons is now in it's fifth incarnation. On the other hand, I
have never seen an update for Skyrealms of Jorune or Talislanta.
It is inevitable that the abilities of players are going to change from time
to time. When this stops, the game will be over. It is bootless for a player
to demand a game where there is no revision. If that were the case, we would
still be using the same ruleset we started with in the 80s. We have changed
things, and we have not changed them back. We must like them, then.
With respect to this particular proposal, I cannot see what basic ability a
Namer has lost, beyond the reduced Magic Resistance bonus. The Experience
and training time returned to a Namer with substantial Ranks in college
counterspells would be enormous, as the number of spells drops from 38
standard counterspells to 8. The bookkeeping would be a great deal easier to
deal with, as well.
For non-Namers, counterspells now become an Experience sink, which is no bad
thing. They get to remove it from their MA, increase the duration and range,
for all that it's a SK spell of your college. I don't see this as a bad
thing.
What basic ability do you see as going, Jason?
On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote:
Given what you have quoted... It isn't a moment of wonder we you have the
ability for the character to do anything ripped out from underneath you..
but more of one a frustration as you work out what you can now bring to the
solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities gone.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience and
re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think it's better if the
mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM's or a
player's creativity. Of course, we need some shared understanding of what
the 'bedrock' of our game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to
pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amount of consistency is 'just
enough'. I suppose others may have different opinions on this, and it
probably boils down to a matter of taste.
I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewer
moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment of wonder.
To that end, I find myself on the side of the fence which is resistant to
binding DMs to the rules too tightly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean that
I can see it, vaguely, in the distance, occasionally lost in the mist.
On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:
Non-College, or Non-Standard College?
Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no
college" works against the general game mechanic.
Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-one
has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edge
away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended to
cripple namers.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz>
wrote:
Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in the
use of non college magics by GM's. This pretty much nullifies the Namers
abilities.
This is something that could be the namer special things over and above
counters of other adepts.
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<body lang=3DEN-NZ link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>
<div class=3DWordSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Primary Reasons to take a Namer on =
Adventure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Counterspells<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Banish<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>DA
(but every man and his dog seems to have this these =
days)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Yes there are a few others but these seem to be the =
primary ones
that are requested. Remove the need for the =
counterspells.... the need for a
namer becomes very minimal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It just seems to me we are heading more towards the =
single
character being able to do everything, than having to work with others =
to get
things done.... Is this something that we =
want<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Saggers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:39 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell =
proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing =
anything in
particular, other than there specific niche in the game. The =
limitation
(wether good or bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, =
is what
gives the namer a place in the rank of Adepts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a =
namer)
to suppressed a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and =
do the
namer out of this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is =
the
namers reason for being there in the first place... oh So they can =
hit
things with there 2 handed weapon right.........<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only =
one to
have counters above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the =
namer can
do that other cant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can =
at
least get the gist of what im saying<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:23 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell =
proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Well, =
sadly, in
a game of imagination, there is not much you can point to say and say =
'This is
engraved in stone and will not change'. And, neither should there be.
Obviously, there needs to be some degree of consistency. Without it, =
it's at
least hard for a pc to make predictions or plan or do all the =
stuff
that we want to see from them. It might even be =
impossible.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>That =
said, the
only games that do not change are games that no one plays. Dungeons =
& Dragons
is now in it's fifth incarnation. On the other hand, I have never seen =
an
update for Skyrealms of Jorune or Talislanta. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>It is =
inevitable
that the abilities of players are going to change from time to time. =
When this
stops, the game will be over. It is bootless for a player to demand a =
game
where there is no revision. If that were the case, we would still be =
using the
same ruleset we started with in the 80s. We have changed things, and we =
have
not changed them back. We must like them, then.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>With =
respect to
this particular proposal, I cannot see what basic ability a Namer has =
lost,
beyond the reduced Magic Resistance bonus. The Experience and training =
time
returned to a Namer with substantial Ranks in college counterspells =
would be
enormous, as the number of spells drops from 38 standard counterspells =
to 8.
The bookkeeping would be a great deal easier to deal with, as well. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>For =
non-Namers,
counterspells now become an Experience sink, which is no bad thing. They =
get to
remove it from their MA, increase the duration and range, for all that
it's a SK spell of your college. I don't see this as a bad =
thing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>What =
basic
ability do you see as going, Jason?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <<a
href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Given what you have quoted... =
It isn’t a
moment of wonder we you have the ability for the character to do =
anything
ripped out from underneath you.. but more of one a frustration as you =
work out
what you can now bring to the solution and outcome of the mission, =
with
your basic abilities gone.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell =
proposal</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>It seems to me that we play =
games of this
kind to experience and re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I
think it's better if the mechanic is plastic enough that it =
doesn't
interfere with a DM's or a player's creativity. Of course, we need
some shared understanding of what the 'bedrock' of our =
game reality
is, but I believe it to be a mistake to pin everything down. I believe =
that the
ideal amount of consistency is 'just enough'. I suppose others may have
different opinions on this, and it probably boils down to a matter of =
taste. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I opine that as DMs become more
conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewer moments of wonder. =
And,
I'm about capturing that moment of wonder.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>To that end, I find myself on =
the side of
the fence which is resistant to binding DMs to the rules too tightly. =
Well,
when I say 'fence', I mean that I can see it, vaguely, in the distance,
occasionally lost in the mist.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <<a =
href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com"
target=3D"_blank">martin.dickson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Non-College,=
or Non-Standard College?<br>
<br>
Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic =
"no
college" works against the general game mechanic.<br>
<br>
Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make =
sure
no-one has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese =
College",
but edge away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually =
intended
to cripple namers. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <<a
href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" =
target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Something that I have been =
coming across
as a Namer, is an increased in the use of non college magics by =
GM’s.
This pretty much nullifies the Namers abilities.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This is something that could be =
the
namer special things over and above counters of other =
adepts.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:25:09 +1200 |
--0016363b9048057c2e0489092737 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Being able to Rank your counterspells will do little to change the Namer's niche, or at least, so I suppose from your email. I agree, on occasion a non-Namer Adept would have better range with their counterspell than a Namer. However, it would still cost two FT to case, it would take two actions to cast. Namers divide these constraints by two. And, with only 8 counterspells to Rank, a Namer is likely to have advanced them substantially. At the low end of the game, very few non-Namer Adepts have counterspells from other colleges. At the high end, a non-Namer Adept may have a few reasonably Ranked counterspells, but ... I really can't see them having all that many. There are 32 standard counterspells (admittedly, not too man= y non-Namers are going to bother learning the ones for Greater Summoning. No, wait. Gok might.) With only 8 to Rank, it just seems really unlikely that the job of ward suppression is going to anyone other than a Namer. Namers have a lot of functionality in the game, and I don't see any of this changing. Yes, it's possible that a non-Namer could put a college counterspell under someone or something at significant range to stop them casting, but how often is that going to be practical considering you have t= o prepare the spell? If the proposal is reasonable, then there is no need for anything more. It just has to lead to a better game. However, in this case, this proposal provides something that Namers can do that no one else can do, to wit that they can Rank their counterspells by branch of magic. I am not making this proposal as a negotiation where people attempt to rais= e the ante on what is offered by simply being resistant to any new suggestion= . It is inappropriate to approach this in terms of what return you can garner for your character. The abiding concern must be how this will be of benefit to the game we play. On 15 June 2010 14:38, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular= , > other than there specific niche in the game. The limitation (wether good= or > bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the > namer a place in the rank of Adepts. > > > > Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to > suppressed a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and do the na= mer > out of this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the nam= ers > reason for being there in the first place... oh So they can hit things w= ith > there 2 handed weapon right......... > > > > Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counte= rs > above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that > other cant. > > > > Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get th= e > gist of what im saying > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:23 p.m. > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal > > > > Well, sadly, in a game of imagination, there is not much you can point to > say and say 'This is engraved in stone and will not change'. And, neither > should there be. Obviously, there needs to be some degree of consistency. > Without it, it's at least hard for a pc to make predictions or plan or do > all the stuff that we want to see from them. It might even be impossible. > > That said, the only games that do not change are games that no one plays. > Dungeons & Dragons is now in it's fifth incarnation. On the other hand, I > have never seen an update for Skyrealms of Jorune or Talislanta. > > It is inevitable that the abilities of players are going to change from > time to time. When this stops, the game will be over. It is bootless for = a > player to demand a game where there is no revision. If that were the case= , > we would still be using the same ruleset we started with in the 80s. We h= ave > changed things, and we have not changed them back. We must like them, the= n. > > With respect to this particular proposal, I cannot see what basic ability= a > Namer has lost, beyond the reduced Magic Resistance bonus. The Experience > and training time returned to a Namer with substantial Ranks in college > counterspells would be enormous, as the number of spells drops from 38 > standard counterspells to 8. The bookkeeping would be a great deal easier= to > deal with, as well. > > For non-Namers, counterspells now become an Experience sink, which is no > bad thing. They get to remove it from their MA, increase the duration and > range, for all that it's a SK spell of your college. I don't see this as = a > bad thing. > > What basic ability do you see as going, Jason? > > On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > > Given what you have quoted... It isn=92t a moment of wonder we you have t= he > ability for the character to do anything ripped out from underneath you.. > but more of one a frustration as you work out what you can now bring to = the > solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities gone. > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m. > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal > > > > It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience and > re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think it's better if th= e > mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM's or a > player's creativity. Of course, we need some shared understanding of what > the 'bedrock' of our game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to > pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amount of consistency is 'j= ust > enough'. I suppose others may have different opinions on this, and it > probably boils down to a matter of taste. > > I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewe= r > moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment of wonder. > > To that end, I find myself on the side of the fence which is resistant to > binding DMs to the rules too tightly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean th= at > I can see it, vaguely, in the distance, occasionally lost in the mist. > > On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > > Non-College, or Non-Standard College? > > Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no > college" works against the general game mechanic. > > Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-on= e > has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edg= e > away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended to > cripple namers. > > > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> > wrote: > > Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in t= he > use of non college magics by GM=92s. This pretty much nullifies the Name= rs > abilities. > > > > This is something that could be the namer special things over and above > counters of other adepts. > > > > > > > --0016363b9048057c2e0489092737 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Being able to Rank your counterspells wil= l do little=A0 to change the Namer's niche, or at least, so I suppose f= rom your email. I agree, on occasion a non-Namer Adept would have better ra= nge with their counterspell than a Namer.=A0However, it would=A0still cost= =A0two FT to case, it=A0would=A0take two actions to cast. Namers=A0divide t= hese constraints by two.=A0And, with only 8 counterspells to Rank, a Namer = is likely to=A0have advanced them substantially. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">At the low end of the game, very few non-= Namer Adepts have=A0counterspells from other colleges.=A0 At the high end, = a non-Namer Adept may have a few=A0reasonably Ranked counterspells, but ...= I really can't see them having all that many. There are 32 standard co= unterspells (admittedly, not too many non-Namers are going to bother=A0lear= ning the ones for=A0Greater Summoning. No, wait. Gok might.)=A0With only 8 = to Rank,=A0it just seems really unlikely that the job of=A0ward suppression= is going to anyone other=A0than a Namer.=A0=A0</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">Namers have a lot of functionality in the game,= and I don't see any of this changing. Yes, it's possible that a no= n-Namer could put a college counterspell under someone or something at sign= ificant range to stop them casting, but how often is that going to be pract= ical considering you have to prepare the spell?</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">If the proposal is reasonable, then there is no= need for anything more. It just has to lead to a better game. However, in = this case, this proposal provides something that Namers can do that no one = else can do, to wit that they can Rank their counterspells by branch of mag= ic.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">I am not making this proposal as a=A0negotiatio= n where people attempt to raise the ante on what is offered by simply being= resistant to any new suggestion. It is inappropriate to approach this in t= erms of what return you can garner for your character. The abiding concern = must be how this will be of benefit to the game we play.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia"></font>=A0</div> <div><br>=A0</div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 14:38, Jason Saggers <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.c= o.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I am= not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular, other= than there specific niche in the game.=A0 The limitation (wether good or b= ad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the na= mer a place in the rank of Adepts.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Sinc= e you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to suppressed a = ward.=A0 Every could in theory rank the counters and do the namer out of th= is.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the namers reason = for being there in the first place...=A0 oh So they can hit things with the= re 2 handed weapon right.........</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Taki= ng away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counters abo= ve 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that other = cant.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Cant= seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get the gist= of what im saying</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:23 p.m.=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target= =3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues,= was Counterspell proposal</div></span> <p></p></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">Well, sadly, in a game of imagination, there is not much you ca= n point to say and say 'This is engraved in stone and will not change&#= 39;. And, neither should there be. Obviously, there needs to be some degree= of consistency. Without it, it's at least hard for a pc=A0to make pred= ictions=A0or plan or do all the stuff that we want to see from them. It mig= ht even be impossible.</span></p> </div> <div class=3D"im"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">That said, the only games that do not change are games that no = one plays. Dungeons & Dragons is now in it's fifth incarnation. On = the other hand, I have never seen an update for Skyrealms of Jorune or Tali= slanta. </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">It is inevitable that the abilities of players are going to cha= nge from time to time. When this stops, the game will be over. It is bootle= ss for a player to demand a game where there is no revision. If that were t= he case, we would still be using the same ruleset we started with in the 80= s. We have changed things, and we have not changed them back. We must like = them, then.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">With respect to this particular proposal, I cannot see what bas= ic ability a Namer has lost, beyond the reduced Magic Resistance bonus. The= Experience and training time returned to a Namer with substantial Ranks in= college counterspells would be enormous, as the number of spells drops fro= m 38 standard counterspells to 8. The bookkeeping would be a great deal eas= ier to deal with, as well. </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">For non-Namers, counterspells now become an Experience sink, wh= ich is no bad thing. They get to remove it from their MA, increase the dura= tion and range, for all that it's=A0a SK spell of your college. I don&#= 39;t see this as a bad thing.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">What basic ability do you see as going, Jason?</span></p></div>= </div> <div> <div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <<a href=3D"= mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</= a>> wrote:</p></div> <div> <div> <div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Give= n what you have quoted... It isn=92t a moment of wonder we you have the abi= lity for the character to do anything ripped out from underneath you.. but = more of one a frustration as you work out =A0what you can now bring to the = solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities gone.</span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m.<br></div= > <div class=3D"im"><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_= blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was = Counterspell proposal</div></span> <p></p></p></div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience an= d re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think=A0 it's better= if the mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM&= #39;s or a player's creativity. Of course, we need some=A0shared unders= tanding of what the 'bedrock' of our game=A0reality is, but I belie= ve it to be a mistake to pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amou= nt of consistency is 'just enough'. I suppose others may have diffe= rent opinions on this, and it probably boils down to a matter of taste. </s= pan></p> </div> <div class=3D"im"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset,=A0then= we see=A0fewer moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment= of wonder.</span></p> </div> <div> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: 'Georgia', 'serif'">To that end, I find myself on the= side of the fence which is resistant to binding DMs to the rules too tight= ly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean that I can see it, vaguely, in= the distance, occasionally lost in the mist.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <<a href=3D= "mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">martin.dickson@gmail.co= m</a>> wrote:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Non-College, or Non-Standard College?<br><br>Perhaps= that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no col= lege" works against the general game mechanic.<br><br>Have "Chees= e College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-one has en= countered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but e= dge away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended t= o cripple namers. </p> <div> <div> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <<= a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darkso= ft.co.nz</a>> wrote:</p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Some= thing that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in the use= of non college magics by GM=92s.=A0 This pretty much nullifies the Namers = abilities.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">This= is something that could be the namer special things over and above counter= s of other adepts.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></div></div></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></blockquote></div><br> --0016363b9048057c2e0489092737-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:32:51 +1200 |
--00c09f88d09890baca0489094218 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > I am not making this proposal as a negotiation where people attempt to > raise the ante on what is offered by simply being resistant to any new > suggestion. It is inappropriate to approach this in terms of what return you > can garner for your character. The abiding concern must be how this will be > of benefit to the game we play. If we were going to consider a change in this vein I'd much rather a 1-per-college approach to a 2-per-branch. Yes, that's x2 as many CS as Jim's proposal, but still 1/2 as many as current. And it means we don't screw around with branches or college-specificity, which I feel makes it a risk / value option. --00c09f88d09890baca0489094218 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Jim Arona <span= dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com">jim.arona@gmail.com= </a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= : 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-lef= t: 1ex;"> <font face=3D"Georgia">I am not making this proposal as a=A0negotiation whe= re people attempt to raise the ante on what is offered by simply being resi= stant to any new suggestion. It is inappropriate to approach this in terms = of what return you can garner for your character. The abiding concern must = be how this will be of benefit to the game we play.</font></blockquote> <div><br>If we were going to consider a change in this vein I'd much ra= ther a 1-per-college approach to a 2-per-branch.<br><br>Yes, that's x2 = as many CS as Jim's proposal, but still 1/2 as many as current.<br> <br>And it means we don't screw around with branches or college-specifi= city, which I feel makes it a risk / value option.<br></div></div> --00c09f88d09890baca0489094218-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:34:49 +1200 |
--0016364ed39c9c57ff048909490a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm about the madness, too. > The horror-from-beyond-the-gate, the harbinger of insanity, he-who-brings-madness... or "Jim" to his friends. :) :) --0016364ed39c9c57ff048909490a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Jim Arona <span= dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com">jim.arona@gmail.com= </a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= : 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-lef= t: 1ex;"> <font face=3D"georgia,serif">I'm about the madness, too.</font><br></bl= ockquote><div><br>The horror-from-beyond-the-gate, the harbinger of insanit= y, he-who-brings-madness... or "Jim" to his friends. :) :)<br>=A0= </div> </div> --0016364ed39c9c57ff048909490a-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Martin Dickson |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:35:26 +1200 |
--00c09f88d098cbce7b0489094b07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz>wrote: > Primary Reasons to take a Namer on Adventure > 4) Divinate --00c09f88d098cbce7b0489094b07 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Jason Saggers <= span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@da= rksoft.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty= le=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);= padding-left: 1ex;"> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-NZ"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= 25);">Primary Reasons to take a Namer on Adventure</span></p></div></div></= blockquote><div>4) Divinate<br></div></div> --00c09f88d098cbce7b0489094b07-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | R Mansfield |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:37:13 +1200 |
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One of the things I have noticed is that Namers are under pressure to rank
counterspells rather than special knowledge as that benefits the whole
party. If the Namer has sunk lots of EP into counters, then early on in the
combat they run out of things to do, so break out the weapons, which just
encourages the 'hand'ina'haf' brigade.
The college actually has a number of SK abilities that can be extremely
useful vs enemy mages in combat when used intelligently - but I've only seen
them used a few times, e.g Spell Barrier can be positively evil :-)
One of the benefits of Jim's idea is that pure Namer's will have more
opportunity to rank SK which would give them a wider range of magic to play
with (amoungst other points counterspell effects are really boring).
Regards
Rosemary
_____
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Jason Saggers
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:56 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
Primary Reasons to take a Namer on Adventure
1) Counterspells
2) Banish
3) DA (but every man and his dog seems to have this these days)
Yes there are a few others but these seem to be the primary ones that are
requested. Remove the need for the counterspells.... the need for a namer
becomes very minimal.
It just seems to me we are heading more towards the single character being
able to do everything, than having to work with others to get things
done.... Is this something that we want
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Jason Saggers
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:39 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular,
other than there specific niche in the game. The limitation (wether good or
bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the
namer a place in the rank of Adepts.
Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to suppressed
a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and do the namer out of
this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the namers reason
for being there in the first place... oh So they can hit things with there
2 handed weapon right.........
Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counters
above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that
other cant.
Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get the
gist of what im saying
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One of the things I have noticed is =
that
Namers are under pressure to rank counterspells rather than special =
knowledge as
that benefits the whole party. If the Namer has sunk lots of EP =
into
counters, then early on in the combat they run out of things to do, so =
break
out the weapons, which just encourages the =
‘hand’ina’haf’
brigade.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The college actually has a number =
of SK
abilities that can be extremely useful vs enemy mages in combat when =
used
intelligently – but I’ve only seen them used a few times, =
e.g Spell
Barrier can be positively evil </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy
face=3DWingdings><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></fon=
t><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One of the benefits of Jim’s =
idea is
that pure Namer’s will have more opportunity to rank SK which =
would give
them a wider range of magic to play with (amoungst other points =
counterspell
effects are really boring).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Rosemary<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jason Saggers<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 15 June =
2010 2:56
p.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Ruleset =
Issues,
was Counterspell proposal</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Primary =
Reasons to
take a Namer on Adventure<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> <=
/o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D'>Counterspells<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D'>Banish<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D'>DA (but every man and his dog seems to have this these =
days)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> <=
/o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Yes there =
are a few
others but these seem to be the primary ones that are requested. =
Remove
the need for the counterspells.... the need for a namer becomes =
very
minimal.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> <=
/o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>It just =
seems to me
we are heading more towards the single character being able to do =
everything,
than having to work with others to get things done.... Is this =
something
that we want<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> <=
/o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jason Saggers<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 15 June =
2010 2:39
p.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Ruleset =
Issues,
was Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I am not of =
the
opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular, other than =
there
specific niche in the game. The limitation (wether good or bad) on =
other
Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the namer a =
place in
the rank of Adepts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> <=
/o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Since you =
can just
cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to suppressed a ward. =
Every
could in theory rank the counters and do the namer out of this.. may not =
be a
completely bad thing, but then what is the namers reason for being there =
in the
first place... oh So they can hit things with there 2 handed =
weapon
right.........<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> <=
/o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Taking away =
the
uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counters above 0, =
needs to
be replaced with something else the namer can do that other =
cant.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> <=
/o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Cant seems =
to word
this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get the gist of what im =
saying<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CB0CA0.A05B74C0--
-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Greg Graydon |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:37:43 +0000 |
--_000_3439D88AC8B9534AB0C26F8CA8F055C66738299CFCGVW1154EXBame_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
He's better than Yogg. wait a sec...
________________________________
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mar=
tin Dickson
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:35 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com<mailto:jim.=
arona@gmail.com>> wrote:
I'm about the madness, too.
The horror-from-beyond-the-gate, the harbinger of insanity, he-who-brings-m=
adness... or "Jim" to his friends. :) :)
--_000_3439D88AC8B9534AB0C26F8CA8F055C66738299CFCGVW1154EXBame_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.17023" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D519073703-15062010><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>He's better than Yogg. wait a=20
sec...</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Martin=20
Dickson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:35 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20
dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Countersp=
ell=20
proposal<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Jim Arona <SPAN=
=20
dir=3Dltr><<A=20
href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com">jim.arona@gmail.com</A>></SPAN>=20
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(2=
04,204,204) 1px solid"><FONT=20
face=3Dgeorgia,serif>I'm about the madness, too.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<DIV><BR>The horror-from-beyond-the-gate, the harbinger of insanity,=20
he-who-brings-madness... or "Jim" to his friends. :)=20
:)<BR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--_000_3439D88AC8B9534AB0C26F8CA8F055C66738299CFCGVW1154EXBame_--
-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:45:54 +1200 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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>>. It is inappropriate to approach this in terms of what return you can
garner for your character. The abiding concern must be how this will be of
benefit to the game we play.
Agree completely.....
This should not be a decision made on wether or not how this effect how
specific character, but on what is good for the game.. Im just not
convinced this is needed to make the game better...
Convince me that everyone being able to rank counters is better for the
game.. given what you have said in the fact they will be barely used.
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D'>>></span><spa=
n
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>. It is inappropriate to =
approach this in
terms of what return you can garner for your character. The abiding =
concern
must be how this will be of benefit to the game we =
play.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Agree =
completely.....</span><br>
<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This should not be a decision made on wether or not how =
this
effect how specific character, but on what is good for the game.. =
Im just not
convinced this is <b>needed</b> to make the game better... =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Convince me that everyone being able to rank counters is =
better
for the <b>game</b>.. given what you have said in the fact they =
will be barely
used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspells In General - Question and Answer Time |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:48:07 +1200 |
--00c09f92395e29adb00489097967 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I made this proposal because an Adept can place a Rank 0 counterspell and benefit by 30 points of MR versus a college and body of knowledge. I believ= e this to be too high. My proposal is that it be reduced to 10+1/Rank, but that it be Rankable to non-Namers, and that Namers have a convention whereb= y they effectively advance mutliple counterspells at once. The reason it is broken is because even at middling levels, a counterspell can quite easily take a character's MR well beyond 100. Namers will take that number much higher. The reason this is a problem is because MR this high leads to spells that: - have an unusual college source (say Mind as opposed to Necro) - belong to an entirely unknown college - be entirely irresistable - have a secondary effect which applies if the MR check is successful. Whether or not it is broken enough for people to want to change is not the issue. In my view, I think my proposal should be adopted. Let us, at least, consider it, and from the perspective of making the game better. On 15 June 2010 14:42, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > Given the current hot topic on the list, I haven=92t seen the following > questions answer by anyone in a definitive way.... So > > > > *Is the current system broken?* > > > > *If so, why is it broken?* > > > > *Is it so broken we need to change to rules?* > --00c09f92395e29adb00489097967 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I made=A0this=A0proposal=A0because an Ade= pt can place a Rank 0 counterspell and benefit by 30 points of MR versus a = college and body of knowledge. I believe this to be too high. My proposal i= s that it be reduced to 10+1/Rank, but that it be Rankable to non-Namers, a= nd that Namers have a convention whereby they effectively advance mutliple = counterspells at once.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">The reason it is broken is because even a= t middling levels, a counterspell can quite easily take a character's M= R well beyond 100. Namers will take that number much higher.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">The reason this is a problem is because M= R this high leads to spells that:</font></div> <ul> <li><font face=3D"georgia,serif">have an unusual college source (say Mind a= s opposed to Necro)</font></li> <li><font face=3D"georgia,serif">belong to an entirely unknown college</fon= t></li> <li><font face=3D"georgia,serif">be entirely irresistable</font></li> <li><font face=3D"georgia,serif">have a secondary effect which applies if t= he MR check is successful.</font></li></ul> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Whether or not it is broken enough for pe= ople to want to change is not the issue.=A0In my view, I think my proposal = should be adopted. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia"></font><font face=3D"Georgia"></font>=A0</div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Let us, at least, consider it, and from t= he perspective of=A0making the game better.</font></div> <div>=A0</div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 14:42, Jason Saggers <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.c= o.nz</a>></span> wrote:=20 <div>=A0</div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Given the current hot topic on the list, I haven=92t= seen the following questions answer by anyone in a definitive way....=A0 S= o</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>Is the current system broken?</u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>If so, why is it broken?</u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>Is it so broken we need to change to rules?</u></= p></div></div></blockquote></div> <div>=A0</div> --00c09f92395e29adb00489097967-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jacqui Smith |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:54:08 +1200 |
Martin Dickson wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com > <mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I am not making this proposal as a negotiation where people > attempt to raise the ante on what is offered by simply being > resistant to any new suggestion. It is inappropriate to approach > this in terms of what return you can garner for your character. > The abiding concern must be how this will be of benefit to the > game we play. > > > If we were going to consider a change in this vein I'd much rather a > 1-per-college approach to a 2-per-branch. > > Yes, that's x2 as many CS as Jim's proposal, but still 1/2 as many as > current. > > And it means we don't screw around with branches or > college-specificity, which I feel makes it a risk / value option. Being a simple-minded creature, I also rather like the idea of one counterspell per College - primarily because it is a lot more elegant than the existing system. I don't mind the idea of non-Namers being about to rank counterspells - not as if they'd ever be as good at it as your actual namer, and it would eat XP. I also think that "new" colleges should prove to be variations on existing Colleges, and counterspelled by one of the existing counter-spells. Thus, a "Cheese College" would prove to be a smellier-than-usual variation on Earth magic (as might the Shaman College I wrote a while back... although the latter is more an Entity College... ). Jacqui -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:56:31 +1200 |
--00c09f851a433bb2480489099751 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm not keen on the one per college variant because it means one spell entirely turns off an Adept. It may have been missed in the frenzy, but I think I should point out that I amended the proposal in line with Jono's notion that a Namer has to identify the college on casting the branch counterspell. I.e. Silverfoam casts an elemental branch counterspell (SK) and names it a Fire College counter. If an Air Mage were in the area of that particular counterspell, they would still be able to cast, and they would only gain MR bonsues vs SK Fire College magic. Status quo, in other words, except that the MR would be a lot less. On 15 June 2010 15:32, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I am not making this proposal as a negotiation where people attempt to >> raise the ante on what is offered by simply being resistant to any new >> suggestion. It is inappropriate to approach this in terms of what return you >> can garner for your character. The abiding concern must be how this will be >> of benefit to the game we play. > > > If we were going to consider a change in this vein I'd much rather a > 1-per-college approach to a 2-per-branch. > > Yes, that's x2 as many CS as Jim's proposal, but still 1/2 as many as > current. > > And it means we don't screw around with branches or college-specificity, > which I feel makes it a risk / value option. > --00c09f851a433bb2480489099751 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I'm not keen on the one per college v= ariant because it means one spell entirely turns off an Adept. </font></div= > <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">It may have been missed in the frenzy, bu= t I think I should point out that I amended the proposal in line with Jono&= #39;s notion that a Namer has to identify the college on casting the branch= counterspell. I.e. Silverfoam casts an elemental branch counterspell (SK) = and names it a Fire College counter. If an Air Mage were in the area of tha= t particular counterspell, they would still be able to cast, and they would= only gain MR bonsues vs SK Fire College magic. Status quo, in other words,= except that the MR would be a lot less.<br> </font><br></div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 15:32, Martin Dickson <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gma= il.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div class=3D"im">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Jim Arona <span dir=3D"l= tr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jim.arona@= gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0= pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><font face=3D"Georgi= a">I am not making this proposal as a=A0negotiation where people attempt to= raise the ante on what is offered by simply being resistant to any new sug= gestion. It is inappropriate to approach this in terms of what return you c= an garner for your character. The abiding concern must be how this will be = of benefit to the game we play.</font></blockquote> </div> <div><br>If we were going to consider a change in this vein I'd much ra= ther a 1-per-college approach to a 2-per-branch.<br><br>Yes, that's x2 = as many CS as Jim's proposal, but still 1/2 as many as current.<br> <br>And it means we don't screw around with branches or college-specifi= city, which I feel makes it a risk / value option.<br></div></div></blockqu= ote></div><br> --00c09f851a433bb2480489099751-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Errol Cavit |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:01:26 +1200 |
--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF306Anzexmaln01tol_
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Good point Jim.
If we go with a one-counter-per-college approach, we could likewise make th=
e caster declare if it will block SK or GK.
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim=
Arona
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:57 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
I'm not keen on the one per college variant because it means one spell enti=
rely turns off an Adept.
It may have been missed in the frenzy, but I think I should point out that =
I amended the proposal in line with Jono's notion that a Namer has to ident=
ify the college on casting the branch counterspell. I.e. Silverfoam casts a=
n elemental branch counterspell (SK) and names it a Fire College counter. I=
f an Air Mage were in the area of that particular counterspell, they would =
still be able to cast, and they would only gain MR bonsues vs SK Fire Colle=
ge magic. Status quo, in other words, except that the MR would be a lot les=
s.
On 15 June 2010 15:32, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com<mailto:mart=
in.dickson@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com<mailto:jim.=
arona@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am not making this proposal as a negotiation where people attempt to rais=
e the ante on what is offered by simply being resistant to any new suggesti=
on. It is inappropriate to approach this in terms of what return you can ga=
rner for your character. The abiding concern must be how this will be of be=
nefit to the game we play.
If we were going to consider a change in this vein I'd much rather a 1-per-=
college approach to a 2-per-branch.
Yes, that's x2 as many CS as Jim's proposal, but still 1/2 as many as curre=
nt.
And it means we don't screw around with branches or college-specificity, wh=
ich I feel makes it a risk / value option.
--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF306Anzexmaln01tol_
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Good point Jim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If we go with a one-counter-per-college approach, we could
likewise make the caster declare if it will block SK or GK.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:57 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I'm n=
ot keen
on the one per college variant because it means one spell entirely turns of=
f an
Adept. </span><o:p></o:p></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Georgia","serif"'>It
may have been missed in the frenzy, but I think I should point out that I
amended the proposal in line with Jono's notion that a Namer has to identif=
y the
college on casting the branch counterspell. I.e. Silverfoam casts an elemen=
tal
branch counterspell (SK) and names it a Fire College counter. If an Air Mag=
e
were in the area of that particular counterspell, they would still be able =
to
cast, and they would only gain MR bonsues vs SK Fire College magic. Status =
quo,
in other words, except that the MR would be a lot less.</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 15 June 2010 15:32, Martin Dickson <<a
href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">martin.dickson@gmail.com</a>> w=
rote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Jim Arona <<a
href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jim.arona@gmail.com</=
a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I am not=
making
this proposal as a negotiation where people attempt to raise the ante =
on
what is offered by simply being resistant to any new suggestion. It is
inappropriate to approach this in terms of what return you can garner for y=
our
character. The abiding concern must be how this will be of benefit to the g=
ame
we play.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
If we were going to consider a change in this vein I'd much rather a 1-per-=
college
approach to a 2-per-branch.<br>
<br>
Yes, that's x2 as many CS as Jim's proposal, but still 1/2 as many as curre=
nt.<br>
<br>
And it means we don't screw around with branches or college-specificity, wh=
ich
I feel makes it a risk / value option.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
--_000_E4F28746A84A0B43B75CC30152A507D23844AF306Anzexmaln01tol_--
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| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:07:36 +1200 |
--00c09f93da65e65d46048909be64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think this is a roundabout way of saying that the main thing that Namers are about is counterspells. Once upon a time, that was true. Not the case any more. They have: Spell Wall. No other college has this. Mana Sense. No other college has this. Bane. No other college has this. Dispel Magic. No other college has this. Disjunction. No other college has this. True Seeing. No other college has this. I look at this list and I don't see Namers suffering from any shortage of niche. If the current reason is, in fact, that they are wanted for their counterspells, then I don't see this changing as a result of this proposal. But, even if it were, then they have a pile of other stuff that only they can do. In the last game that I played with Drum (and this also contained Silverfoam), counterspells were not a major factor. It was things like Spel= l Wall, Mana Sense, Disjunction. On 15 June 2010 14:56, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > Primary Reasons to take a Namer on Adventure > > > > 1) Counterspells > > 2) Banish > > 3) DA (but every man and his dog seems to have this these days) > > > > Yes there are a few others but these seem to be the primary ones that are > requested. Remove the need for the counterspells.... the need for a nam= er > becomes very minimal. > > > > It just seems to me we are heading more towards the single character bein= g > able to do everything, than having to work with others to get things > done.... Is this something that we want > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jason Saggers > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:39 p.m. > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal > > > > I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular, > other than there specific niche in the game. The limitation (wether good= or > bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the > namer a place in the rank of Adepts. > > > > Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to > suppressed a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and do the na= mer > out of this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the nam= ers > reason for being there in the first place... oh So they can hit things w= ith > there 2 handed weapon right......... > > > > Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counte= rs > above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that > other cant. > > > > Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get th= e > gist of what im saying > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:23 p.m. > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal > > > > Well, sadly, in a game of imagination, there is not much you can point to > say and say 'This is engraved in stone and will not change'. And, neither > should there be. Obviously, there needs to be some degree of consistency. > Without it, it's at least hard for a pc to make predictions or plan or do > all the stuff that we want to see from them. It might even be impossible. > > That said, the only games that do not change are games that no one plays. > Dungeons & Dragons is now in it's fifth incarnation. On the other hand, I > have never seen an update for Skyrealms of Jorune or Talislanta. > > It is inevitable that the abilities of players are going to change from > time to time. When this stops, the game will be over. It is bootless for = a > player to demand a game where there is no revision. If that were the case= , > we would still be using the same ruleset we started with in the 80s. We h= ave > changed things, and we have not changed them back. We must like them, the= n. > > With respect to this particular proposal, I cannot see what basic ability= a > Namer has lost, beyond the reduced Magic Resistance bonus. The Experience > and training time returned to a Namer with substantial Ranks in college > counterspells would be enormous, as the number of spells drops from 38 > standard counterspells to 8. The bookkeeping would be a great deal easier= to > deal with, as well. > > For non-Namers, counterspells now become an Experience sink, which is no > bad thing. They get to remove it from their MA, increase the duration and > range, for all that it's a SK spell of your college. I don't see this as = a > bad thing. > > What basic ability do you see as going, Jason? > > On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > > Given what you have quoted... It isn=92t a moment of wonder we you have t= he > ability for the character to do anything ripped out from underneath you.. > but more of one a frustration as you work out what you can now bring to = the > solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities gone. > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jim Arona > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m. > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal > > > > It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience and > re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think it's better if th= e > mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM's or a > player's creativity. Of course, we need some shared understanding of what > the 'bedrock' of our game reality is, but I believe it to be a mistake to > pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amount of consistency is 'j= ust > enough'. I suppose others may have different opinions on this, and it > probably boils down to a matter of taste. > > I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset, then we see fewe= r > moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment of wonder. > > To that end, I find myself on the side of the fence which is resistant to > binding DMs to the rules too tightly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean th= at > I can see it, vaguely, in the distance, occasionally lost in the mist. > > On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com> wrote: > > Non-College, or Non-Standard College? > > Perhaps that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no > college" works against the general game mechanic. > > Have "Cheese College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-on= e > has encountered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but edg= e > away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended to > cripple namers. > > > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> > wrote: > > Something that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in t= he > use of non college magics by GM=92s. This pretty much nullifies the Name= rs > abilities. > > > > This is something that could be the namer special things over and above > counters of other adepts. > > > > > > > --00c09f93da65e65d46048909be64 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I think this is a roundabout way of sayin= g that the main thing that Namers are about is counterspells. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Once upon a time, that was true. Not the = case any more.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">They have:</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Spell Wall. No other college has this.</f= ont></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Mana Sense. No other college has this.</f= ont></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Bane. No other college has this.</font></= div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Dispel Magic. No other college has this.<= /font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Disjunction. No other college has this.</= font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">True Seeing. No other college has this.</= font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I look at this list and I don't see N= amers suffering from any shortage of niche.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">If the current reason is, in fact, that t= hey are wanted for their counterspells, then I don't see this changing = as a result of this proposal.=A0But, even if it were, then they have a pile= of other stuff that only they can do.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">In the last game that I played with Drum = (and this also contained Silverfoam), counterspells were not a major factor= . It was things like Spell Wall, Mana Sense, Disjunction. <br></font><br> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 14:56, Jason Saggers <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.c= o.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Prim= ary Reasons to take a Namer on Adventure</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 54pt"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11= pt"><span>1)<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 </span></span></span><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"= >Counterspells</span></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 54pt"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11= pt"><span>2)<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 </span></span></span><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"= >Banish</span></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 54pt"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11= pt"><span>3)<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 </span></span></span><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"= >DA (but every man and his dog seems to have this these days)</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yes = there are a few others but these seem to be the primary ones that are reque= sted.=A0 Remove the need for the counterspells....=A0 the need for a namer = becomes very minimal.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It j= ust seems to me we are heading more towards the single character being able= to do everything, than having to work with others to get things done....= =A0 Is this something that we want</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Saggers<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:39 p.m.=20 <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"><br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target= =3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues,= was Counterspell proposal</div></div></span> <p></p></p></div></div> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I am= not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular, other= than there specific niche in the game.=A0 The limitation (wether good or b= ad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the na= mer a place in the rank of Adepts.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Sinc= e you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to suppressed a = ward.=A0 Every could in theory rank the counters and do the namer out of th= is.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the namers reason = for being there in the first place...=A0 oh So they can hit things with the= re 2 handed weapon right.........</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Taki= ng away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counters abo= ve 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that other = cant.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Cant= seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get the gist= of what im saying</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:23 p.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailt= o:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b>= Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal</span></p></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">Well, sadly, in a game of imagination, there is not much you ca= n point to say and say 'This is engraved in stone and will not change&#= 39;. And, neither should there be. Obviously, there needs to be some degree= of consistency. Without it, it's at least hard for a pc=A0to make pred= ictions=A0or plan or do all the stuff that we want to see from them. It mig= ht even be impossible.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">That said, the only games that do not change are games that no = one plays. Dungeons & Dragons is now in it's fifth incarnation. On = the other hand, I have never seen an update for Skyrealms of Jorune or Tali= slanta. </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">It is inevitable that the abilities of players are going to cha= nge from time to time. When this stops, the game will be over. It is bootle= ss for a player to demand a game where there is no revision. If that were t= he case, we would still be using the same ruleset we started with in the 80= s. We have changed things, and we have not changed them back. We must like = them, then.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">With respect to this particular proposal, I cannot see what bas= ic ability a Namer has lost, beyond the reduced Magic Resistance bonus. The= Experience and training time returned to a Namer with substantial Ranks in= college counterspells would be enormous, as the number of spells drops fro= m 38 standard counterspells to 8. The bookkeeping would be a great deal eas= ier to deal with, as well. </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">For non-Namers, counterspells now become an Experience sink, wh= ich is no bad thing. They get to remove it from their MA, increase the dura= tion and range, for all that it's=A0a SK spell of your college. I don&#= 39;t see this as a bad thing.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">What basic ability do you see as going, Jason?</span></p></div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 13:53, Jason Saggers <<a href=3D"= mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darksoft.co.nz</= a>> wrote:</p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Give= n what you have quoted... It isn=92t a moment of wonder we you have the abi= lity for the character to do anything ripped out from underneath you.. but = more of one a frustration as you work out =A0what you can now bring to the = solution and outcome of the mission, with your basic abilities gone.</span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 1:46 p.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailt= o:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b>= Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal</span></p></div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">It seems to me that we play games of this kind to experience an= d re-experience a sense of wonder and amazement. I think=A0 it's better= if the mechanic is plastic enough that it doesn't interfere with a DM&= #39;s or a player's creativity. Of course, we need some=A0shared unders= tanding of what the 'bedrock' of our game=A0reality is, but I belie= ve it to be a mistake to pin everything down. I believe that the ideal amou= nt of consistency is 'just enough'. I suppose others may have diffe= rent opinions on this, and it probably boils down to a matter of taste. </s= pan></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia', '= serif'">I opine that as DMs become more conformist to a ruleset,=A0then= we see=A0fewer moments of wonder. And, I'm about capturing that moment= of wonder.</span></p> </div> <div> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: 'Georgia', 'serif'">To that end, I find myself on the= side of the fence which is resistant to binding DMs to the rules too tight= ly. Well, when I say 'fence', I mean that I can see it, vaguely, in= the distance, occasionally lost in the mist.</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 June 2010 13:15, Martin Dickson <<a href=3D= "mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">martin.dickson@gmail.co= m</a>> wrote:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Non-College, or Non-Standard College?<br><br>Perhaps= that's something for GMs to think about; making the magic "no col= lege" works against the general game mechanic.<br><br>Have "Chees= e College" if you want... heck, if you want to make sure no-one has en= countered it before make it the "Roquefort Cheese College", but e= dge away from non-college unless really necessary... or actually intended t= o cripple namers. </p> <div> <div> <p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Jason Saggers <<= a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">psyclone@darkso= ft.co.nz</a>> wrote:</p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Some= thing that I have been coming across as a Namer, is an increased in the use= of non college magics by GM=92s.=A0 This pretty much nullifies the Namers = abilities.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">This= is something that could be the namer special things over and above counter= s of other adepts.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></div></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><b= r> --00c09f93da65e65d46048909be64-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:11:02 +1200 |
--0016e640d010287296048909cba3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Aw, you guys...<shuffles feet, looks at the ground> On 15 June 2010 15:37, Greg Graydon <greg.graydon@hp.com> wrote: > He's better than Yogg. wait a sec... > > ------------------------------ > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf Of > *Martin Dickson > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:35 p.m. > > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'm about the madness, too. >> > > The horror-from-beyond-the-gate, the harbinger of insanity, > he-who-brings-madness... or "Jim" to his friends. :) :) > > > --0016e640d010287296048909cba3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">Aw, you guys...<shuffles feet, looks at the= ground><br></font><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 15:37, Greg Graydon <span dir=3D= "ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:greg.graydon@hp.com">greg.graydon@hp.com</a>>= ;</span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa= ce=3D"Arial">He's better than Yogg.=A0 wait a sec...</font></span></div= ><br> <blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" align=3D"left"> <hr> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"= mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] = <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Dickson<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:35 p.m.=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target= =3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues,= was Counterspell proposal<br></div></font><br></div> <div class=3D"im"> <div></div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Jim Arona <span= dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">j= im.arona@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0= pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><font face=3D"georgi= a,serif">I'm about the madness, too.</font><br></blockquote> <div><br>The horror-from-beyond-the-gate, the harbinger of insanity, he-who= -brings-madness... or "Jim" to his friends. :) :)<br>=A0</div></d= iv></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br> --0016e640d010287296048909cba3-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jason Saggers |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:02:44 +1200 |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Ok Yes I can see that this could possibly be a benefit.. Spell Barrier has
the down side of effecting both side (if you are using it to block spells,
you need it to be interposed between you and the caster..
Most other SK have these kind of downside too... Bane has a big enough area
that a decent rank of bane effects the party as well if the enemy is
centered in it. Like you said "Intellegent Use"
Assuming All Standard College Counters at Rank 10 Jim Proposal frees up
approx 176000 xp assuming his all in one Branch counters at em 200 (current
em for SK counter)
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of R
Mansfield
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:37 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal
One of the things I have noticed is that Namers are under pressure to rank
counterspells rather than special knowledge as that benefits the whole
party. If the Namer has sunk lots of EP into counters, then early on in the
combat they run out of things to do, so break out the weapons, which just
encourages the 'hand'ina'haf' brigade.
The college actually has a number of SK abilities that can be extremely
useful vs enemy mages in combat when used intelligently - but I've only seen
them used a few times, e.g Spell Barrier can be positively evil J
One of the benefits of Jim's idea is that pure Namer's will have more
opportunity to rank SK which would give them a wider range of magic to play
with (amoungst other points counterspell effects are really boring).
Regards
Rosemary
_____
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Jason Saggers
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:56 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
Primary Reasons to take a Namer on Adventure
1) Counterspells
2) Banish
3) DA (but every man and his dog seems to have this these days)
Yes there are a few others but these seem to be the primary ones that are
requested. Remove the need for the counterspells.... the need for a namer
becomes very minimal.
It just seems to me we are heading more towards the single character being
able to do everything, than having to work with others to get things
done.... Is this something that we want
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Jason Saggers
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:39 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal
I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular,
other than there specific niche in the game. The limitation (wether good or
bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the
namer a place in the rank of Adepts.
Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to suppressed
a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and do the namer out of
this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the namers reason
for being there in the first place... oh So they can hit things with there
2 handed weapon right.........
Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counters
above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that
other cant.
Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get the
gist of what im saying
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<div class=3DWordSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ok Yes I can see that this could possibly be a =
benefit.. Spell
Barrier has the down side of effecting both side (if you are using it to =
block
spells, you need it to be interposed between you and the =
caster..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Most other SK have these kind of downside too... =
Bane has
a big enough area that a decent rank of bane effects the party as well =
<b>if
the enemy is centered</b> in it. Like you said “Intellegent =
Use”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Assuming All Standard College Counters at Rank 10 =
Jim
Proposal frees up approx 176000 xp assuming his all in one Branch
counters at em 200 (current em for SK counter)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>R Mansfield<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:37 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>One of the things I have noticed is that Namers are under =
pressure
to rank counterspells rather than special knowledge as that benefits the =
whole
party. If the Namer has sunk lots of EP into counters, then early =
on in
the combat they run out of things to do, so break out the weapons, which =
just
encourages the ‘hand’ina’haf’ =
brigade.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>The college actually has a number of SK abilities that can =
be
extremely useful vs enemy mages in combat when used intelligently =
– but
I’ve only seen them used a few times, e.g Spell Barrier can be =
positively
evil </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:navy'>J</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>One of the benefits of Jim’s idea is that pure =
Namer’s
will have more opportunity to rank SK which would give them a wider =
range of
magic to play with (amoungst other points counterspell effects are =
really
boring).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Rosemary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>
</span></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Saggers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:56 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell =
proposal</span><span
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Primary Reasons to take a Namer on =
Adventure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Counterspells<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Banish<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>DA
(but every man and his dog seems to have this these =
days)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Yes there are a few others but these seem to be the =
primary ones
that are requested. Remove the need for the =
counterspells.... the
need for a namer becomes very minimal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It just seems to me we are heading more towards the =
single
character being able to do everything, than having to work with others =
to get
things done.... Is this something that we =
want<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Saggers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:39 p.m.<br>
<b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell =
proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing =
anything in
particular, other than there specific niche in the game. The =
limitation
(wether good or bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, =
is what
gives the namer a place in the rank of Adepts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a =
namer)
to suppressed a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and =
do the
namer out of this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is =
the
namers reason for being there in the first place... oh So they can =
hit
things with there 2 handed weapon right.........<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only =
one to
have counters above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the =
namer can
do that other cant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can =
at
least get the gist of what im saying<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Jim Arona |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:39:11 +1200 |
--00163630f147ce015904890a2f1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I'm aware of the amount of Experience and training time it will unlock= . I was thinking that the Exp. Mult. would need to increase, and I suppose branch counterspells would have to double or triple the costs. If w= e quadrupled the cost of branch counterspells, then, Ranks would be status qu= o ante, although there'd be some slight losses of Experience because no one Ranks Air General Counterspell etc. My estimate is that Silverfoam has spent a little over 300,o00 Experience o= n his counterspells. My preference is for the branch counterspells to have their Exp. Mult. tripled to 300 and 600. In my example, Silverfoam would have about 85,000 Experience returned and about five years and two months o= f training time. Eric, on the other hand, would have about the same amount of Experience, bu= t only a trifling three years and two months training time. It is my belief that Silverfoam would use the Experience and time to learn all of the weapons in the game, whereas Eric will take up a life of indolence, attending bath houses, dining on sweet meats and sampling fine wines. On 15 June 2010 16:02, Jason Saggers <psyclone@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > Ok Yes I can see that this could possibly be a benefit.. Spell Barrier > has the down side of effecting both side (if you are using it to block > spells, you need it to be interposed between you and the caster.. > > > > Most other SK have these kind of downside too... Bane has a big enough > area that a decent rank of bane effects the party as well *if the enemy i= s > centered* in it. Like you said =93Intellegent Use=94 > > > > Assuming All Standard College Counters at Rank 10 Jim Proposal frees up > approx 176000 xp assuming his all in one Branch counters at em 200 (curr= ent > em for SK counter) > > > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *R Mansfield > > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:37 p.m. > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal > > > > One of the things I have noticed is that Namers are under pressure to ran= k > counterspells rather than special knowledge as that benefits the whole > party. If the Namer has sunk lots of EP into counters, then early on in = the > combat they run out of things to do, so break out the weapons, which just > encourages the =91hand=92ina=92haf=92 brigade. > > > > The college actually has a number of SK abilities that can be extremely > useful vs enemy mages in combat when used intelligently =96 but I=92ve on= ly seen > them used a few times, e.g Spell Barrier can be positively evil J > > > > One of the benefits of Jim=92s idea is that pure Namer=92s will have more > opportunity to rank SK which would give them a wider range of magic to pl= ay > with (amoungst other points counterspell effects are really boring). > > > > Regards > > Rosemary > ------------------------------ > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jason Saggers > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:56 p.m. > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal > > > > Primary Reasons to take a Namer on Adventure > > > > 1) Counterspells > > 2) Banish > > 3) DA (but every man and his dog seems to have this these days) > > > > Yes there are a few others but these seem to be the primary ones that are > requested. Remove the need for the counterspells.... the need for a nam= er > becomes very minimal. > > > > It just seems to me we are heading more towards the single character bein= g > able to do everything, than having to work with others to get things > done.... Is this something that we want > > > > *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf O= f > *Jason Saggers > *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:39 p.m. > *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz > *Subject:* Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal > > > > I am not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular, > other than there specific niche in the game. The limitation (wether good= or > bad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the > namer a place in the rank of Adepts. > > > > Since you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to > suppressed a ward. Every could in theory rank the counters and do the na= mer > out of this.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the nam= ers > reason for being there in the first place... oh So they can hit things w= ith > there 2 handed weapon right......... > > > > Taking away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counte= rs > above 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that > other cant. > > > > Cant seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get th= e > gist of what im saying > > > --00163630f147ce015904890a2f1a Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">Yes, I'm aware of the amount of Exper= ience and training time it will unlock. </font></div> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I was thinking that the Exp. Mult. would = need to increase, and I suppose=A0branch counterspells would have to double= or=A0triple the costs. If we quadrupled the cost of branch counterspells, = then,=A0Ranks would=A0be status quo ante, although there'd be some slig= ht losses of Experience because no one Ranks Air General Counterspell etc. = </font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">My estimate is that Silverfoam has spent=A0a li= ttle over=A0300,o00 Experience on his counterspells.=A0=A0My preference is = for the branch counterspells to have their Exp. Mult. tripled to 300 and 60= 0. In my example, Silverfoam would have about 85,000 Experience returned an= d about=A0five years and two months of training time.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">Eric, on the other hand, would have about the s= ame amount of Experience, but only a=A0trifling=A0three years and two month= s training time.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia">It is my belief that Silverfoam would use the E= xperience and time to learn all of the weapons in the game, whereas Eric wi= ll take up a life of indolence, attending bath houses, dining on sweet meat= s and sampling fine wines.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Georgia"></font><br>=A0</div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 June 2010 16:02, Jason Saggers <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:psyclone@darksoft.co.nz">psyclone@darksoft.c= o.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-NZ" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Ok Y= es I can see that this could possibly be a benefit..=A0 Spell Barrier has t= he down side of effecting both side (if you are using it to block spells, y= ou need it to be interposed between you and the caster..</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Most= other SK have these kind of downside too...=A0 Bane has a big enough area = that a decent rank of bane effects the party as well <b>if the enemy is cen= tered</b> in it.=A0 Like you said =93Intellegent Use=94</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Assu= ming All Standard College Counters at Rank 10=A0 Jim Proposal frees up appr= ox 176000 xp=A0 assuming his all in one Branch counters at em 200 (current = em for SK counter)</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>R Mansfield=20 <div class=3D"im"><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 3:37 p.m.<br><b>To= :</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz<= /a><br></div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal</span>=20 <p></p></p></div></div> <div> <div></div> <div class=3D"h5"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">One of the things I have noticed is that Namers are under pressure = to rank counterspells rather than special knowledge as that benefits the wh= ole party.=A0 If the Namer has sunk lots of EP into counters, then early on= in the combat they run out of things to do, so break out the weapons, whic= h just encourages the =91hand=92ina=92haf=92 brigade.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">The college actually has a number of SK abilities that can be extre= mely useful vs enemy mages in combat when used intelligently =96 but I=92ve= only seen them used a few times, e.g Spell Barrier can be positively evil = </span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"= lang=3D"EN-GB">J</span><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang= =3D"EN-GB"></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">One of the benefits of Jim=92s idea is that pure Namer=92s will hav= e more opportunity to rank SK which would give them a wider range of magic = to play with (amoungst other points counterspell effects are really boring)= .</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">Regards</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D= "EN-GB">Rosemary</span></p> <div> <div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa= n lang=3D"EN-US"> <hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%"> </span></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Saggers<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:56 p.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailt= o:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b>= Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal</span><span lang=3D"EN-= US"></span></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=A0</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Prim= ary Reasons to take a Namer on Adventure</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 54pt"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11= pt"><span>1)<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 </span></span></span><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"= >Counterspells</span></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 54pt"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11= pt"><span>2)<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 </span></span></span><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"= >Banish</span></p> <p style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 54pt"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11= pt"><span>3)<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 </span></span></span><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"= >DA (but every man and his dog seems to have this these days)</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yes = there are a few others but these seem to be the primary ones that are reque= sted.=A0 Remove the need for the counterspells....=A0 the need for a namer = becomes very minimal.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It j= ust seems to me we are heading more towards the single character being able= to do everything, than having to work with others to get things done....= =A0 Is this something that we want</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <div> <div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p= t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr= om:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [ma= ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq= .sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Saggers<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 15 June 2010 2:39 p.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailt= o:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b>= Re: [dq] Ruleset Issues, was Counterspell proposal</span></p></div></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I am= not of the opinion that the namer is loosing anything in particular, other= than there specific niche in the game.=A0 The limitation (wether good or b= ad) on other Adepts ranking counters except there own, is what gives the na= mer a place in the rank of Adepts.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Sinc= e you can just cast a counter (wether or not your a namer) to suppressed a = ward.=A0 Every could in theory rank the counters and do the namer out of th= is.. may not be a completely bad thing, but then what is the namers reason = for being there in the first place...=A0 oh So they can hit things with the= re 2 handed weapon right.........</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Taki= ng away the uniqueness of the namer being the only one to have counters abo= ve 0, needs to be replaced with something else the namer can do that other = cant.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=A0<= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Cant= seems to word this the way I want, but maybe you can at least get the gist= of what im saying</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><b= r> --00163630f147ce015904890a2f1a-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Counterspell proposal |
|---|---|
| From | Bernard Hoggins |
| Date | Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:31:46 +0000 (GMT) |
--0-13588867-1276597906=:98399 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the whole I'm actually liking the following variant of Jim's. Branch Counter spells.=A0 GK & SK. Namer nominated a targeted college of that branch when cast Counterspell then only affects that college (or since we are significantly = down powering the MR bonus, could give half effect to other spells of the b= ranch, but not block drawing of mana if that wouldn't be too complex). Non Namers can rank counter spells to individual colleges.=A0 (be it as GK = or SK, given we are down powering counter spells we don't want to give too = many namer boosts at once to see how things change). Doubling or tripling EM would make me happy on that. What I'm not getting is this whole Celestial thing. To pull out some numbers.=A0 Since this is a rules change and numbers are r= elevant. Every Celestial Mage can learn all but 2 of the spells any celestial mage f= rom another branch has.=A0 Though certain of the other spells are cast with= reversed light/dark aspects, they are still the same spell.=A0 Primary dif= ference is cast chances at time of day. They have a total between all branches of 12 GK Spells. & 2 Ritual.=A0 Less= than other colleges in the game. They have a total between all the branches of 13 SK Spells, and 1 Ritual.= =A0 Again, far less than a great many of the other colleges have. So even allowing for all the different branches there are other colleges th= at are far larger, and allow for more variation between adepts as a result. On people creating other branches of Celestial, the same is true of several= other colleges as well, or related colleges.=A0 Flamis with her Radiance v= ersion of fire for a start.=A0 Sooty with his Ash Version.=A0 The various r= une versions floating about in play (unless they have all settled to the la= test).=A0 Mind has at least one variation I know of also. So all up, I'm just not seeing any compelling reasons to treat Celestial as= it is written & played now as a separate branch.=A0 If this gets significa= ntly changed in the future, that's a different matter, but mixing up the tw= o proposals is going to create a lot of confusion also. From Bernard Hoggins =0Anevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk =0A=0A=0A --0-13588867-1276597906=:98399 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"= top" style=3D"font: inherit;">On the whole I'm actually liking the followin= g variant of Jim's.<br><br>Branch Counter spells. GK & SK.<br>Nam= er nominated a targeted college of that branch when cast<br>Counterspell th= en only affects that college (or since we are significantly down powering t= he MR bonus, could give half effect to other spells of the branch, but not = block drawing of mana if that wouldn't be too complex).<br><br>Non Namers c= an rank counter spells to individual colleges. (be it as GK or SK, gi= ven we are down powering counter spells we don't want to give too many name= r boosts at once to see how things change).<br><br>Doubling or tripling EM = would make me happy on that.<br><br>What I'm not getting is this whole Cele= stial thing.<br>To pull out some numbers. Since this is a rules chang= e and numbers are relevant.<br>Every Celestial Mage can learn all but 2 of = the spells any celestial mage from another branch has. Though certain of= the other spells are cast with reversed light/dark aspects, they are still= the same spell. Primary difference is cast chances at time of day.<b= r>They have a total between all branches of 12 GK Spells. & 2 Ritual.&n= bsp; Less than other colleges in the game.<br>They have a total between all= the branches of 13 SK Spells, and 1 Ritual. Again, far less than a g= reat many of the other colleges have.<br><br>So even allowing for all the d= ifferent branches there are other colleges that are far larger, and allow f= or more variation between adepts as a result.<br><br>On people creating oth= er branches of Celestial, the same is true of several other colleges as wel= l, or related colleges. Flamis with her Radiance version of fire for = a start. Sooty with his Ash Version. The various rune versions = floating about in play (unless they have all settled to the latest). Mind has at least one variation I know of also.<br><br>So a= ll up, I'm just not seeing any compelling reasons to treat Celestial as it = is written & played now as a separate branch. If this gets signif= icantly changed in the future, that's a different matter, but mixing up the= two proposals is going to create a lot of confusion also.<br><br>From Bern= ard Hoggins<br>=0Anevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<br></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A= =0A --0-13588867-1276597906=:98399-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |