SubjectRe: [dq] skills
FromGreg Graydon
DateThu, 22 Jul 2010 21:33:10 +0000
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That's ok Martin, it would take them the 3 months to turn up to the adventu=
re location and horse vendors would be happy.

________________________________
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mar=
tin Dickson
Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2010 3:05 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] skills

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:37 PM, RPer 4eva <msnoverflow@gmail.com<mailto:ms=
noverflow@gmail.com>> wrote:
Here are the skills. Rather than just knock all 3 can people tell me whats =
wrong with each please?

Very happy to tell you what's wrong with Archery at least:  I *wrote<http:/=
/homepages.ihug.co.nz/%7Eapollyon/dq_index.html>* the friggin thing, (as Ky=
ujutsu<http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/%7Eapollyon/vault/Kyujutsu.html>) and wh=
oever is reusing it here appears to be in violation of the attribution requ=
irement of the creative commons license under which it appears on the intra=
-webs.  :)

(Yes, this version is slightly altered, which is just fine, but that doesn'=
t abrogate the attribution requirement -- and btw, the Kyujutsu version is =
in the Guild GM's guide).


As for Mage Hunter... *snerk*....

"A Mage-Hunter may never channel magical forces or use any magical item..."

"If a mage is within 20 feet (+10 feet per Rank) of a mage hunter the mage =
must expend an extra 1 point of fatigue [+1 every 5 Ranks the Mage Hunter p=
ossesses] each time he casts a spell."

"Any mage within 20 feet (+10 feet per Rank) of a mage hunter has 4 x the R=
ank of the mage hunter added to his roll to determine backfire."

On the bright side it would give someone new for everyone to hate -- well, =
the 90% of the guild that are magic users at least...


Cheers,
Martin

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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D091053221-22072010><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>That's ok Martin, it would take them the 3 months =
to turn=20
up to the adventure location and horse vendors would be=20
happy.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Martin=20
  Dickson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 22 July 2010 3:05 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] skills<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:37 PM, RPer 4eva <SPAN=
=20
  dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:msnoverflow@gmail.com">msnoverflow@gmail.com</A>&gt;</SPAN=
>=20
  wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(2=
04,204,204) 1px solid">
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: med=
ium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-BOTTOM: 2pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none;=
 PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid">Here=20
    are the skills. Rather than just knock all 3 can people tell me whats w=
rong=20
    with each please? </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>Very happy to tell you what's wrong with Archery at least:&nbsp;=
 I=20
  *<A href=3D"http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/%7Eapollyon/dq_index.html">wrote<=
/A>*=20
  the friggin thing, (as <A=20
  href=3D"http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/%7Eapollyon/vault/Kyujutsu.html">Kyuj=
utsu</A>)=20
  and whoever is reusing it here appears to be in violation of the attribut=
ion=20
  requirement of the creative commons license under which it appears on the=
=20
  intra-webs.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>(Yes, this version is slightly altered, which=
 is=20
  just fine, but that doesn't abrogate the attribution requirement -- and b=
tw,=20
  the Kyujutsu version is in the Guild GM's guide).<BR><BR><BR>As for Mage=
=20
  Hunter... *snerk*....<BR><BR>"A Mage-Hunter may never channel magical for=
ces=20
  <B>or use any magical item</B>..."<BR><BR>"If a mage is within 20 feet (+=
10=20
  feet per Rank) of a mage hunter the mage must expend an extra 1 point of=
=20
  fatigue [+1 every 5 Ranks the Mage Hunter possesses] each time he casts a=
=20
  spell."<BR><BR>"Any mage within 20 feet (+10 feet per Rank) of a mage hun=
ter=20
  has 4 x the Rank of the mage hunter added to his roll to determine=20
  backfire."<BR><BR>On the bright side it would give someone new for everyo=
ne to=20
  hate -- well, the 90% of the guild that are magic users at=20
  least...<BR><BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
</HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] skills
FromGreg Graydon
DateThu, 22 Jul 2010 21:57:26 +0000
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The other thing here is once a skill is written down it becomes prescribed.
One of the flavours of DQ as I have seen it played is that when something i=
s not explicitly spelled out then the laws of BDE come into play and some e=
ntertaining things can happen.

If I am in a bar room brawl and want to swing from the light fittings grab =
a chair and throw it through the window then jump out the window, the GM wi=
ll probably give me some sort of agility/md check to do it.

If I know however that at rank 2 fight'n and feud'n I have a 60% chance of =
light fitting swinging (+2% for a metal fitting, -2% per exposed candle on =
the fitting) and a 28% + md chance of grabbing a chair and a 45% chance of =
throwing a chair through a window (+1% per square foot of the window over 6=
 square feet and -1% per llb weight of the chair over 20llbs) and a 67% cha=
nce of throwing myself out the window (-5% per class of armour), it makes f=
or extra paper work and dice calculation, slows down the action and does no=
t really add to the game.  In fact as described it makes it highly unlikely=
 that I would be able to do what I had wanted to do and which previously I =
could probably have done.  Unless I took into account my rank 3 in dramatic=
 architecture and rank 4 spatial awareness that allow me to add a % bonus f=
or knowing where the window and chair are in relation to the window and a b=
onus for knowing that chairs of that sort are particularly efficacious for =
throwing through windows if thrown a certain way.

The other thing with a new skill is that it becomes an EP tax.  Something y=
ou have always done suddenly costs you ep if you want to have any chance at=
 all of actually doing it in a half way decent fashion.

My thinking is that new skills that are not core skills, is that time is th=
e only thing that should be required to master them.  Three (or four) level=
s should be all that is needed for most of them.
Apprentice, Journeyman, Master.


________________________________
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mar=
tin Dickson
Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2010 2:50 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] skills

IMO there's a sort of "litmus test" around whether a particular skill is su=
fficiently important to the kind of game world, and style of fantasy play t=
hat we have in the campaign to warrant the complexity that Jim mentions.

For example, the Artisan skill was written the way it is because there were=
 sufficient people who wanted to have a defined, in-game, ability with baki=
ng, or hat-making, or embalming, or cutting hair, etc, etc that having some=
 way of representing this skill in-game was desirable, but the individual a=
bilities did not warrant their own separate skills as they were primarily f=
or flavour and interest, and not core adventuring abilities. The compromise=
 was to have a single DQ skill to represent all these crafting / gathering =
/ service abilities, with the inevitable trade-off that the exact represent=
ation of hairdressing would leave something to be desired.

The question then for, Acrobat, to use your first example: is the represent=
ation of acrobatics currently within Troubadour sufficient for the general =
/ mainstream of the game?  Tumbling and Juggling for example are not genera=
lly seen as primary abilities -- they may be handy to have, but don't stand=
 at a level equivalent to a college, or warrior, or healer...

Now that may not be sufficient if ones personal character concept is less g=
eneric-European-fantasy and more Flying Tiger Hidden Dragon, but in that ca=
se, as Jim says, special quest / non-mainstream options may be needed to ro=
und out the character's skill set.



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<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D036073521-22072010><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The other thing here is once a skill is written do=
wn=20
it&nbsp;becomes prescribed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D036073521-22072010><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>One of the flavours of DQ as I have seen it played=
 is that=20
when something is not explicitly spelled out then the laws of BDE come into=
 play=20
and some entertaining things can happen.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D036073521-22072010><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D036073521-22072010><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If I am in a bar room brawl and want to swing from=
 the=20
light fittings grab a chair and throw it through the window then jump out t=
he=20
window, the GM will probably give me some sort of agility/md check to do=20
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D036073521-22072010><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D036073521-22072010><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If I know however that at rank 2 fight'n and feud'=
n I have=20
a 60% chance of light fitting swinging (+2% for a metal fitting, -2% per ex=
posed=20
candle on the fitting)&nbsp;and a 28% + md chance of grabbing a chair and a=
 45%=20
chance of throwing a chair through a window (+1% per&nbsp;square foot of th=
e=20
window over 6&nbsp;square feet and -1%&nbsp;per llb weight of the chair ove=
r=20
20llbs)&nbsp;and a 67% chance of throwing myself out the window (-5% per cl=
ass=20
of armour), it makes for extra paper work and dice calculation, slows down =
the=20
action and does not really add to the game.&nbsp; In fact as described it m=
akes=20
it highly unlikely that I would be able to do what I had wanted to do and w=
hich=20
previously I could probably have done.&nbsp; Unless I took into account my =
rank=20
3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 spatial awareness that allow me to ad=
d a %=20
bonus for knowing where the window and chair are in relation to the window =
and a=20
bonus for knowing that chairs of that sort are particularly efficacious for=
=20
throwing through windows if thrown a certain way.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D036073521-22=
072010>The=20
other thing with a new skill is that it becomes an EP tax.&nbsp; Something =
you=20
have always done suddenly costs you ep if you want to have any chance at al=
l of=20
actually doing it in a half way decent fashion.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D036073521-22072010></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D036073521-22=
072010>My=20
thinking is that new skills that are not core skills, is that time is the o=
nly=20
thing that should be required to master them.&nbsp; Three (or four) levels=
=20
should be all that is needed for most of them.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D036073521-22072010>Apprentice, Journeyman, Master.</SPAN></FONT><FO=
NT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Martin=20
  Dickson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 22 July 2010 2:50 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] skills<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>IMO there's a sort of "litmus test" around whether a particula=
r=20
  skill is sufficiently important to the kind of game world, and style of=20
  fantasy play that we have in the campaign to warrant the complexity that =
Jim=20
  mentions.<BR><BR>For example, the Artisan skill was written the way it is=
=20
  because there were sufficient people who wanted to have a defined, in-gam=
e,=20
  ability with baking, or hat-making, or embalming, or cutting hair, etc, e=
tc=20
  that having some way of representing this skill in-game was desirable, bu=
t the=20
  individual abilities did not warrant their own separate skills as they we=
re=20
  primarily for flavour and interest, and not core adventuring abilities. T=
he=20
  compromise was to have a single DQ skill to represent all these crafting =
/=20
  gathering / service abilities, with the inevitable trade-off that the exa=
ct=20
  representation of hairdressing would leave something to be desired.<BR><B=
R>The=20
  question then for, Acrobat, to use your first example: is the representat=
ion=20
  of acrobatics currently within Troubadour sufficient for the general /=20
  mainstream of the game?&nbsp; Tumbling and Juggling for example are not=20
  generally seen as primary abilities -- they may be handy to have, but don=
't=20
  stand at a level equivalent to a college, or warrior, or healer... <BR><B=
R>Now=20
  that may not be sufficient if ones personal character concept is less=20
  generic-European-fantasy and more Flying Tiger Hidden Dragon, but in that=
=20
  case, as Jim says, special quest / non-mainstream options may be needed t=
o=20
  round out the character's skill set.<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>

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SubjectRe: [dq] skills
FromRPer 4eva
DateFri, 23 Jul 2010 15:03:34 +1200
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I think that a lot of skills are quite rare. That doesn't mean they're not
worth having. Off the top of my head I don't think there are a lot of
navigators although there might be and I've just missed seeing them. If a
new skill turns out to be more in demand than some that currently exist does
that mean its more worth looking at them? Is it possible more people would
play the concept if the skill was added?

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I think that a lot of skills are quite rare. That doesn&#39;t mean they&#39=
;re not worth having. Off the top of my head I don&#39;t think there are a =
lot of navigators although there might be and I&#39;ve just missed seeing t=
hem. If a new skill turns out to be more in demand than some that currently=
 exist does that mean its more worth looking at them? Is it possible more p=
eople would play the concept if the skill was added?

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