Messages for 26 July 2010

Subject	Re: [dq] skills
From	Greg Graydon
Date	Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:14:42 +0000
--_000_3439D88AC8B9534AB0C26F8CA8F055C6676EB58FCCGVW1154EXBame_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A dramatic architect is one who utilises the local architecture in a dramat= ic fashion. or who designs architecture with future drama in mind. eg thr= owing the object d'art through the window, a window designed to shatter se= nding cascades of tinkling glass tinkling melodically down through a series= of tuned metal bars or posing in a stained glass architrave as the sun hig= hlights your silhouette holding a 12 candle candelabra. The possibilities = would be endless. I am sure you can think of many appropriate examples whe= re the application of a knowledge of dramatic architecture would tip the sc= ene from bar room brawl to one of orchestrated chaos a la mode. ________________________________ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mar= tin Dickson Sent: Saturday, 24 July 2010 12:01 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills A "dramatic architect" is one who conveys their designs by way of interpret= ive dance? :) On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz<mailto:aw= ithy@ihug.co.nz>> wrote: Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there's a skill that DQ's been missi= ng. --_000_3439D88AC8B9534AB0C26F8CA8F055C6676EB58FCCGVW1154EXBame_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.17063" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D091330722-25072010><FONT face=3DA= rial=20 color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>A dramatic architect is one who utilises the local= =20 architecture in a dramatic fashion.  or who designs architecture with= =20 future drama in mind.  eg throwing the object d'art through the=20 window,  a window designed to shatter sending cascades of tinklin= g=20 glass tinkling melodically down through a series of tuned metal bars o= r=20 posing in a stained glass architrave as the sun highlights your silhouette= =20 holding a 12 candle candelabra.  The possibilities would be endless.&n= bsp;=20 I am sure you can think of many appropriate examples where the application = of a=20 knowledge of dramatic architecture would tip the scene from bar room brawl = to=20 one of orchestrated chaos a la mode.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft> <HR tabIndex=3D-1> <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20 [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Martin=20 Dickson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, 24 July 2010 12:01 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20 dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] skills<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV>A "dramatic architect" is one who conveys their designs by way= of=20 interpretive dance?  :)<BR><BR> <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <= SPAN=20 dir=3Dltr><<A=20 href=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">awithy@ihug.co.nz</A>></SPAN> wrote:= <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(2= 04,204,204) 1px solid"> <DIV lang=3DEN-US vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ooh! I want= =20 Dramatic Architecture! Now there’s a skill that DQ’s been=20 missing.</SPAN></FONT></P><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV id=3Davg_ls_inline_popup=20 style=3D"DISPLAY: inline; VISIBILITY: hidden"></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <STYLE type=3Dtext/css>#avg_ls_inline_popup { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 10px; Z= -INDEX: 9999; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; OVERFLOW: hidden; WIDT= H: 240px; COLOR: black; LINE-HEIGHT: 13px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; POSITION: abso= lute; TEXT-ALIGN: left; WORD-WRAP: break-word } </STYLE> </BODY></HTML> --_000_3439D88AC8B9534AB0C26F8CA8F055C6676EB58FCCGVW1154EXBame_-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] skills
From	Hamish Brown
Date	Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:43:44 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CB2CB7.CD9A4D30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there Dylan I think that basically the line with developments to the DQ system we are using is that any change has to be based on us collectivly agreeing that there is a broken thing that we want to fix. So if there is something that seems broken the first hurdle is would most of us agree its broken. The system doent seem be 'in development' in the sense that as people have cool ideas others take them up and something gets changed. This bugged me for quite a long time when I first started playing but eventually I decided it was a good thing. It means the world is basically stable. That being said players often don't realise that almost anything is possible it took me years to work out how to relate to the GM's so that they would get involved with my character development and make pronoucments from on high (read write-ups) that my toon broke the rules in some specific way. (i.e. I was a crazy mo-fo acrobat that could leap over people and kill them from behind; yes one of my toons does this). In fact I think this is far better than everyone being able to do (what ever it is) because if everyone could then it would be boring. I bet every person whos been around a while could make quite a long list of things we should never have changed and I bet that everyones list would be different. I know I have a list like this. However I agree with Jono warrior is broken. The pathetic incremental improvements to stuff are boring and too weak for the ep cost. However I play 2 high level warriors and don't agree with the widly held view that warriors are under powered compaired to mages. Neither of mine are, mostly because they can do damage directly to endurance. The Warrior skill should give a set of cool abilities achieved at specific levels as well as the boring incremental improvemts. So if someone proposed this and we could balance it so as not to break things than I would probably like it. Cheers Hamish _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of RPer 4eva Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:13 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills I'm mainly just advocating 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being in use. I wouldn't advocate half the list as generic skills but included them all just for the sake of completeness. I don't think anyone wants half the guild to be vamperic thralls. I'm considering starting a new thread specificaly about weaponmaster since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I thought. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> wrote: The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the last 20 years or so and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both combat and out of combat roles. The game changes in small increments not wholesale additions and there has to be something an existing skill doesn't or couldn't cover with some modification. Many of the skills you detail here could be played under other skills (or are) or they simply define your PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the character, not by the title of the skill they use. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <msnoverflow@gmail.com> wrote: I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post helps me with that. We have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the big axe. These skills while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought people would be more interested in non combat skills than in any new combat skills otherwise I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit many peoples concepts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people to put forward specific problems with new skills is not to put the work on them but so that I learn and if I feel the need to put forward another proposal it won't be flawed in the same way this is. I was under the impression that people were going to be much against adding combat capabilities but if I understand your post I should instead put forward more of them? Dylan On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> wrote: oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer and Orator are what do it for me. I can't wait until the right moment to proclaim how good I am at such useless skills. They will just add true depth when i try and ward the great axe blow from my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to unearth the tomb I'm plundering. Most all of the skills here are character background skills and have no real use in a DQ game. We have the skill sets we have as they are useful in a game, almost anything else can be ranked as an artisan type skill as background. While we have lots of things pseudo imported from other systems the breadth of prestige classes you propose are not required in DQ (IMHO of course) and would only add complexity not enjoyment to the game. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there's a skill that DQ's been missing. _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Greg Graydon Sent: Friday, 23 July 2010 9:57 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills . Unless I took into account my rank 3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 spatial . ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CB2CB7.CD9A4D30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"Palatino Linotype"; panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 5 5 3 3 4;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>Hi there Dylan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>I think that basically the line with developments to the DQ system we are using = is that any change has to be based on us collectivly agreeing that there is a = broken thing that we want to fix.  So if there is something that seems = broken the first hurdle is would most of us agree its = broken.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>The system doent seem be ‘in development’ in the sense that as = people have cool ideas others take them up and something gets changed.  This bugged = me for quite a long time when I first started playing but eventually I decided it was = a good thing.  It means the world is basically stable.  = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>That being said players often don’t realise that almost anything is = possible it took me years to work out how to relate to the GM’s so that they would = get involved with my character development and make pronoucments from on high (read = write-ups) that my toon broke the rules in some specific way.  (i.e. I was a = crazy mo-fo acrobat that could leap over people and kill them from behind;  yes = one of my toons does this).  In fact I think this is far better than everyone = being able to do (what ever it is) because if everyone could then it would be = boring.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>I bet every person whos been around a while could make quite a long list of = things we should never have changed and I bet that everyones list would be = different.  I know I have a list like this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>However I agree with Jono warrior is broken.  The pathetic incremental = improvements to stuff are boring and too weak for the ep cost.  However I play 2 = high level warriors and don’t agree with the widly held view that warriors = are under powered compaired to mages.  Neither of mine are, mostly because = they can do damage directly to endurance.  The Warrior skill should give a set = of cool abilities achieved at specific levels as well as the boring incremental improvemts.  So if someone proposed this and we could balance it so = as not to break things than I would probably like it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>Cheers Hamish<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On = Behalf Of </span></b>RPer 4eva<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July 24, = 2010 1:13 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = skills</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I'm mainly = just advocating 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being in use. I = wouldn't advocate half the list as generic skills but included them all just for = the sake of completeness. I don't think anyone wants half the guild to be = vamperic thralls. I'm considering starting a new thread specificaly about = weaponmaster since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I = thought.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <<a href=3D"mailto:chriscaulf@gmail.com">chriscaulf@gmail.com</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the last 20 = years or so and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both combat and out = of combat roles.    The game changes in small increments not = wholesale additions and there has to be something an existing skill doesn't or = couldn't cover with some modification.      Many of the skills you = detail here could be played under other skills (or are) or they simply define = your PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the character, not by the title = of the skill they use. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> <br>    <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <<a href=3D"mailto:msnoverflow@gmail.com" = target=3D"_blank">msnoverflow@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post helps me = with that. We have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the big axe. = These skills while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought people = would be more interested in non combat skills than in any new combat skills = otherwise I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit many peoples = concepts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people to put forward = specific problems with new skills is not to put the work on them but so that I = learn and if I feel the need to put forward another proposal it won't be flawed in = the same way this is. I was under the impression that people were going to = be much against adding combat capabilities but if I understand your post I = should instead put forward more of them?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Dylan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <<a href=3D"mailto:chriscaulf@gmail.com" = target=3D"_blank">chriscaulf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer and Orator are what do it for me.   I can't wait = until the right moment to proclaim how good I am at such useless skills.    They will just add true depth when i try and = ward the great axe blow from my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to = unearth the tomb I'm plundering.<br> <br> Most all of the skills here are character background skills and have no = real use in a DQ game.<br> We have the skill sets we have as they are useful in a game, almost = anything else can be ranked as an artisan type skill as background.        While we have lots of things pseudo imported from other = systems the breadth of prestige classes you propose are not required in DQ (IMHO = of course) and would only add complexity not enjoyment to the game.    = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <<a href=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz" = target=3D"_blank">awithy@ihug.co.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC = 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'> <div vlink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there’s a skill = that DQ’s been missing.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight: bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Greg Graydon<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, 23 July = 2010 9:57 a.m. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma'><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = skills<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>… </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>  Unless I = took into account my rank 3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 spatial = </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>…</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CB2CB7.CD9A4D30-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Warrior skill development
From	Hamish Brown
Date	Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:54:14 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB2CB9.452FBF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What about this Warrior special abilities by level: Level 2 - the Warrior has an aura about them so that others find them cooler than the general population. Level 4 - The Warrior gets a chance to parry one incoming blow this pulse (a successful parry does not result in a repost) Level 5 - The Warrior can make a normal strike after moving half TMR with a one or two handed weapon Level 6 - The Warrior acts from their engaged IV from half TMR range if they use the action to close the gap and strike. Level 7 - If the enemy fail a fear check (each pulse) they will attack the Warrior in preference to other players in the combat. Level 8 - The Warrior can attempt to parry two incoming blows per pulse Level 9 - The Warrior can attempt to repost the two blows they parry if the parry is successful. Level 10 - The Warrior no longer has a rear of flank hexes Hamish _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of RPer 4eva Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:13 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills I'm mainly just advocating 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being in use. I wouldn't advocate half the list as generic skills but included them all just for the sake of completeness. I don't think anyone wants half the guild to be vamperic thralls. I'm considering starting a new thread specificaly about weaponmaster since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I thought. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> wrote: The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the last 20 years or so and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both combat and out of combat roles. The game changes in small increments not wholesale additions and there has to be something an existing skill doesn't or couldn't cover with some modification. Many of the skills you detail here could be played under other skills (or are) or they simply define your PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the character, not by the title of the skill they use. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <msnoverflow@gmail.com> wrote: I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post helps me with that. We have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the big axe. These skills while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought people would be more interested in non combat skills than in any new combat skills otherwise I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit many peoples concepts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people to put forward specific problems with new skills is not to put the work on them but so that I learn and if I feel the need to put forward another proposal it won't be flawed in the same way this is. I was under the impression that people were going to be much against adding combat capabilities but if I understand your post I should instead put forward more of them? Dylan On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> wrote: oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer and Orator are what do it for me. I can't wait until the right moment to proclaim how good I am at such useless skills. They will just add true depth when i try and ward the great axe blow from my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to unearth the tomb I'm plundering. Most all of the skills here are character background skills and have no real use in a DQ game. We have the skill sets we have as they are useful in a game, almost anything else can be ranked as an artisan type skill as background. While we have lots of things pseudo imported from other systems the breadth of prestige classes you propose are not required in DQ (IMHO of course) and would only add complexity not enjoyment to the game. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there's a skill that DQ's been missing. _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Greg Graydon Sent: Friday, 23 July 2010 9:57 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills . Unless I took into account my rank 3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 spatial . ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB2CB9.452FBF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What about = this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Warrior special abilities by = level:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Level 2 – the Warrior has an = aura about them so that others find them cooler than the general = population.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Level 4 – The Warrior gets a = chance to parry one incoming blow this pulse (a successful parry does not = result in a repost)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Level 5 – The Warrior can = make a normal strike after moving half TMR with a one or two handed weapon = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Level 6 – The Warrior acts = from their engaged IV from half TMR range if they use the action to close the = gap and strike. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Level 7 – If the enemy fail a = fear check (each pulse) they will attack the Warrior in preference to other = players in the combat.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Level 8 – The Warrior can = attempt to parry two incoming blows per pulse<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Level 9 – The Warrior can = attempt to repost the two blows they parry if the parry is = successful.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Level 10 – The Warrior no = longer has a rear of flank hexes<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hamish<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On = Behalf Of </span></b>RPer 4eva<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July 24, = 2010 1:13 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = skills</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I'm mainly = just advocating 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being in use. I = wouldn't advocate half the list as generic skills but included them all just for = the sake of completeness. I don't think anyone wants half the guild to be = vamperic thralls. I'm considering starting a new thread specificaly about = weaponmaster since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I = thought.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <<a href=3D"mailto:chriscaulf@gmail.com">chriscaulf@gmail.com</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the last 20 = years or so and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both combat and out = of combat roles.    The game changes in small increments not = wholesale additions and there has to be something an existing skill doesn't or = couldn't cover with some modification.      Many of the skills you = detail here could be played under other skills (or are) or they simply define = your PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the character, not by the title = of the skill they use. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> <br>    <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <<a href=3D"mailto:msnoverflow@gmail.com" = target=3D"_blank">msnoverflow@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post helps me = with that. We have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the big axe. = These skills while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought people = would be more interested in non combat skills than in any new combat skills = otherwise I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit many peoples = concepts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people to put forward = specific problems with new skills is not to put the work on them but so that I = learn and if I feel the need to put forward another proposal it won't be flawed in = the same way this is. I was under the impression that people were going to = be much against adding combat capabilities but if I understand your post I = should instead put forward more of them?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Dylan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <<a href=3D"mailto:chriscaulf@gmail.com" = target=3D"_blank">chriscaulf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer and Orator are what do it for me.   I can't wait = until the right moment to proclaim how good I am at such useless skills.    They will just add true depth when i try and = ward the great axe blow from my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to = unearth the tomb I'm plundering.<br> <br> Most all of the skills here are character background skills and have no = real use in a DQ game.<br> We have the skill sets we have as they are useful in a game, almost = anything else can be ranked as an artisan type skill as background.        While we have lots of things pseudo imported from other = systems the breadth of prestige classes you propose are not required in DQ (IMHO = of course) and would only add complexity not enjoyment to the game.  =   <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <<a href=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz" = target=3D"_blank">awithy@ihug.co.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC = 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'> <div vlink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there’s a skill = that DQ’s been missing.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight: bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Greg Graydon<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, 23 July = 2010 9:57 a.m. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma'><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = skills<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>… </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>  Unless I = took into account my rank 3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 spatial = </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>…</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB2CB9.452FBF00-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Warrior skill development
From	RPer 4eva
Date	Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:54:13 +1200
--001485e8d2b2bc6497048c3fd2a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of the things I liked about weaponmaster is that not everyone of the same rank ends up the same. There are additional abilities you can buy from about 5k - 10k xp each. You really can specialise by having abilities that work only for a class or c class weapons. There is scope for being a strength fighter or speed or accuracy and in specialising you're not just ignoring abilities you have in preference of others, you're obtaining new abilities specificaly for your thing. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz>wr= ote: > What about this > > > > Warrior special abilities by level: > > > > Level 2 =96 the Warrior has an aura about them so that others find them > cooler than the general population. > > Level 4 =96 The Warrior gets a chance to parry one incoming blow this pul= se > (a successful parry does not result in a repost) > > Level 5 =96 The Warrior can make a normal strike after moving half TMR wi= th a > one or two handed weapon > > Level 6 =96 The Warrior acts from their engaged IV from half TMR range if > they use the action to close the gap and strike. > > Level 7 =96 If the enemy fail a fear check (each pulse) they will attack = the > Warrior in preference to other players in the combat. > > Level 8 =96 The Warrior can attempt to parry two incoming blows per pulse > > Level 9 =96 The Warrior can attempt to repost the two blows they parry if= the > parry is successful. > > Level 10 =96 The Warrior no longer has a rear of flank hexes > > > > Hamish > > > > --001485e8d2b2bc6497048c3fd2a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of the things I liked about weaponmaster is that not everyone of the sa= me rank ends up the same. There are additional abilities you can buy from a= bout 5k - 10k xp each. You really can specialise by having abilities that w= ork only for a class or c class weapons. There is scope for being a strengt= h fighter or speed or accuracy and in specialising you're not just igno= ring abilities you have in preference of others, you're obtaining new a= bilities specificaly for your thing.<br> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Hamish Brown <= span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz">perfect_br= own@xtra.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex= ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div lang=3D"EN-US" vlink=3D"blue" link=3D"blue"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">What about this= </span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Warrior special= abilities by level:</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Level 2 =96 the= Warrior has an aura about them so that others find them cooler than the ge= neral population.</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Level 4 =96 The= Warrior gets a chance to parry one incoming blow this pulse (a successful = parry does not result in a repost)</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Level 5 =96 The= Warrior can make a normal strike after moving half TMR with a one or two h= anded weapon </span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Level 6 =96 The= Warrior acts from their engaged IV from half TMR range if they use the act= ion to close the gap and strike. </span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Level 7 =96 If = the enemy fail a fear check (each pulse) they will attack the Warrior in pr= eference to other players in the combat.</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Level 8 =96 The= Warrior can attempt to parry two incoming blows per pulse</span></font></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Level 9 =96 The= Warrior can attempt to repost the two blows they parry if the parry is suc= cessful.</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Level 10 =96 Th= e Warrior no longer has a rear of flank hexes</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hamish</span></= font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span= style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=A0</span></fon= t></p> <div>=A0</div></div></div></blockquote></div> --001485e8d2b2bc6497048c3fd2a5-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Warrior skill development
From	Hamish Brown
Date	Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:29:22 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CB2CC6.8F34A590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The thing with that is you will get some abilities that everyone will have because they are good. (wasn't plate armor developed because of long bows or something in the real world?) Flavor things don't need to be in the rules. If you want to use maces and hammers use them, and over time a GM will give you special abilities to use them better. But once maces and hammers have a special bonus attached in the rules then people will be evaluating these bonuses against the bonus they get for using A class weapons, deciding which is more lethal and getting that one. The rules shape how the game is played, what people can and can't do, on a regular basis as a matter how reality is. like someone else said once throwing a chair out the window and jumping through is a skill doing so becomes a part of the collective reality - adventures jump out windows after throwing chairs through them. It's no longer spontaneous. A change to warrior (or weapon master) is really a change to how the combats will go. Once it is normal for a particular class to do certain things in combat then the opposition do them and they become a part of how we expect combat to go. So for example if warriors can charge and strike on engaged IV from range then one of the first actions in the combat is that a few of them and a few of us will charge each other and get in each others faces. (or people will become more strategic about the initial engagement) - weather this is a good change depends on weather we think combats like that will be more interesting, and weather we want to differentiate warriors roles this way, across the whole game. Personally I think it would be cool it strongly differentiates the warrior skill and it would make combats more dynamic and unpredictable, its not just a change to give warriors more options (although it does achieve this). Hamish _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of RPer 4eva Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 12:54 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior skill development One of the things I liked about weaponmaster is that not everyone of the same rank ends up the same. There are additional abilities you can buy from about 5k - 10k xp each. You really can specialise by having abilities that work only for a class or c class weapons. There is scope for being a strength fighter or speed or accuracy and in specialising you're not just ignoring abilities you have in preference of others, you're obtaining new abilities specificaly for your thing. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> wrote: What about this Warrior special abilities by level: Level 2 - the Warrior has an aura about them so that others find them cooler than the general population. Level 4 - The Warrior gets a chance to parry one incoming blow this pulse (a successful parry does not result in a repost) Level 5 - The Warrior can make a normal strike after moving half TMR with a one or two handed weapon Level 6 - The Warrior acts from their engaged IV from half TMR range if they use the action to close the gap and strike. Level 7 - If the enemy fail a fear check (each pulse) they will attack the Warrior in preference to other players in the combat. Level 8 - The Warrior can attempt to parry two incoming blows per pulse Level 9 - The Warrior can attempt to repost the two blows they parry if the parry is successful. Level 10 - The Warrior no longer has a rear of flank hexes Hamish ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CB2CC6.8F34A590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The thing with that is you will get = some abilities that everyone will have because they are good.  = (wasn’t plate armor developed because of long bows or something in the real = world?)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Flavor things don’t need to = be in the rules.  If you want to use maces and hammers use them, and over = time a GM will give you special abilities to use them better.  But once maces and = hammers have a special bonus attached in the rules then people will be evaluating = these bonuses against the bonus they get for using A class weapons, deciding = which is more lethal and getting that one.  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The rules shape how the game is = played, what people can and can’t do, on a regular basis as a matter how = reality is.  like someone else said once throwing a chair out the window and jumping = through is a skill doing so becomes a part of the collective reality – = adventures jump out windows after throwing chairs through them.  It’s no = longer spontaneous.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>A change to warrior (or weapon = master) is really a change to how the combats will go.  Once it is normal for = a particular class to do certain things in combat then the opposition do them and = they become a part of how we expect combat to go.  So for example if = warriors can charge and strike on engaged IV from range then one of the first actions = in the combat is that a few of them and a few of us will charge each other and = get in each others faces… (or people will become more strategic about the = initial engagement) – weather this is a good change depends on weather we = think combats like that will be more interesting, and weather we want to differentiate warriors roles this way, across the whole game.  Personally I think = it would be cool it strongly differentiates the warrior skill and it would make = combats more dynamic and unpredictable, its not just a change to give warriors = more options (although it does achieve this).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hamish<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On = Behalf Of </span></b>RPer 4eva<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 26, = 2010 12:54 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Warrior = skill development</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>One of the = things I liked about weaponmaster is that not everyone of the same rank ends up the = same. There are additional abilities you can buy from about 5k - 10k xp each. = You really can specialise by having abilities that work only for a class or = c class weapons. There is scope for being a strength fighter or speed or = accuracy and in specialising you're not just ignoring abilities you have in = preference of others, you're obtaining new abilities specificaly for your = thing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Hamish Brown <<a href=3D"mailto:perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz">perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz</a>>= wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div vlink=3Dblue link=3Dblue> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>What about this</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Warrior special abilities by = level:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Level 2 – the Warrior has an aura about them so that = others find them cooler than the general population.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Level 4 – The Warrior gets a chance to parry one = incoming blow this pulse (a successful parry does not result in a = repost)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Level 5 – The Warrior can make a normal strike after = moving half TMR with a one or two handed weapon </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Level 6 – The Warrior acts from their engaged IV from = half TMR range if they use the action to close the gap and strike. = </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Level 7 – If the enemy fail a fear check (each pulse) = they will attack the Warrior in preference to other players in the = combat.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Level 8 – The Warrior can attempt to parry two = incoming blows per pulse</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Level 9 – The Warrior can attempt to repost the two = blows they parry if the parry is successful.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Level 10 – The Warrior no longer has a rear of flank = hexes</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Hamish</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CB2CC6.8F34A590-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] What is wrong with Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills
From	Ian Wood
Date	Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:11:44 -0700 (PDT)
--0-1519675091-1280128304=:20461 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi there, =C2=A0 Can Hamish and Jono, and others knowledgeable about Warrior (say the Author= ), help me by listing what is wrong with Warrior? and what is good about it. =C2=A0 something like: What Warrior was designed to achieve What Warrior was deliberately designed to not allow or encourage What are the successes of Warrior What are the failures of Warrior? =C2=A0 Are the failures sufficiently significant to warrant a change? =C2=A0 If the failures warrant change, then what do we need to change about Warrio= r? 1. its purpose?=20 2. its self-imposed limitations? 3. how it seeks to achieve its purpose? 4. what do we need to add to remedy its failures. =C2=A0 I am in Australia and receiving DQ posts releives some of the disconnection= .. A framework to fit the various points would really help. At the moment i have the urge to delete any further posts unread as they ar= e generally about a solution looking for a problem. =C2=A0 cheers, from a place with blue skies, mid-20s temperatures and low humidity= .. =C2=A0 Ian --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> wrote: From: Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> Subject: Re: [dq] skills To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 11:43 AM Hi there Dylan =C2=A0 I think that basically the line with developments to the DQ system we are u= sing is that any change has to be based on us collectivly agreeing that the= re is a broken thing that we want to fix.=C2=A0 So if there is something th= at seems broken the first hurdle is would most of us agree its broken. =C2=A0 The system doent seem be =E2=80=98in development=E2=80=99 in the sense that= as people have cool ideas others take them up and something gets changed.= =C2=A0 This bugged me for quite a long time when I first started playing bu= t eventually I decided it was a good thing.=C2=A0 It means the world is bas= ically stable.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 That being said players often don=E2=80=99t realise that almost anything is= possible it took me years to work out how to relate to the GM=E2=80=99s so= that they would get involved with my character development and make pronou= cments from on high (read write-ups) that my toon broke the rules in some s= pecific way.=C2=A0 (i.e. I was a crazy mo-fo acrobat that could leap over p= eople and kill them from behind;=C2=A0 yes one of my toons does this).=C2= =A0 In fact I think this is far better than everyone being able to do (what= ever it is) because if everyone could then it would be boring. =C2=A0 I bet every person whos been around a while could make quite a long list of= things we should never have changed and I bet that everyones list would be= different.=C2=A0 I know I have a list like this. =C2=A0 However I agree with Jono warrior is broken.=C2=A0 The pathetic incremental= improvements to stuff are boring and too weak for the ep cost.=C2=A0 Howev= er I play 2 high level warriors and don=E2=80=99t agree with the widly held= view that warriors are under powered compaired to mages.=C2=A0 Neither of = mine are, mostly because they can do damage directly to endurance.=C2=A0 Th= e Warrior skill should give a set of cool abilities achieved at specific le= vels as well as the boring incremental improvemts.=C2=A0 So if someone prop= osed this and we could balance it so as not to break things than I would pr= obably like it. =C2=A0 Cheers Hamish From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of RPe= r 4eva Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:13 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills =C2=A0 I'm mainly just advocating 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being = in use. I wouldn't advocate half the list as generic skills but included th= em all just for the sake of completeness. I don't think anyone wants half t= he guild to be vamperic thralls. I'm considering starting a new thread spec= ificaly about weaponmaster since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I t= hought. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> wro= te: The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the last 20 years or s= o and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both combat and out of comb= at roles. =C2=A0=C2=A0 The game changes in small increments not wholesale a= dditions and there has to be something an existing skill doesn't or couldn'= t cover with some modification. =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Many of the skills you = detail here could be played under other skills (or are) or they simply defi= ne your PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the character, not by t= he title of the skill they use.=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=20 On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <msnoverflow@gmail.com> wrote: I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post helps me with that. W= e have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the big axe. These skil= ls while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought people would be mo= re interested in non combat skills than in any new combat skills otherwise = I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit many peoples conc= epts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people to put forward spe= cific problems with new skills is not to put the work on them but so that I= learn and if I feel the need to put forward another proposal it won't be f= lawed in the same way this is. I was under the impression that people were = going to be much against adding combat capabilities but if I understand you= r post I should instead put forward more of them? Dylan On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> wr= ote: oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer and Orator are what do it for me.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I= can't wait until the right moment to proclaim how good I am at such useles= s skills.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 They will just add true depth when i try and wa= rd the great axe blow from my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to= unearth the tomb I'm plundering. Most all of the skills here are character background skills and have no rea= l use in a DQ game. We have the skill sets we have as they are useful in a game, almost anythin= g else can be ranked as an artisan type skill as background. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0 While we have lots of things pseudo imported from other system= s the breadth of prestige classes you propose are not required in DQ (IMHO = of course) and would only add complexity not enjoyment to the game.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=20 On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there=E2=80=99s a skill that DQ=E2= =80=99s been missing. =C2=A0 From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Gre= g Graydon Sent: Friday, 23 July 2010 9:57 a.m.=20 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills =C2=A0 =E2=80=A6 =C2=A0 Unless I took into account my rank 3 in dramatic architect= ure and rank 4 spatial =E2=80=A6=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --0-1519675091-1280128304=:20461 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"= top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>hi there,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can Hamish and Jono, and others knowledgeable about Warrior (say the A= uthor), help me by listing what is wrong with Warrior?</DIV> <DIV>and what is good about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>something like:</DIV> <DIV>What Warrior was designed to achieve</DIV> <DIV>What Warrior was deliberately designed to not allow or encourage<BR>Wh= at are the successes of Warrior</DIV> <DIV>What are the failures of Warrior?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are the failures sufficiently significant to warrant a change?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the failures warrant change, then what do we need to change about W= arrior?</DIV> <DIV>1. its purpose? </DIV> <DIV>2. its self-imposed limitations?</DIV> <DIV>3. how it seeks to achieve its purpose?</DIV> <DIV>4. what do we need to add to remedy its failures.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am in Australia and receiving DQ posts releives some of the disconne= ction.</DIV> <DIV>A framework to fit the various points would really help.</DIV> <DIV>At the moment i have the urge to delete any further posts unread as th= ey are generally about a solution looking for a problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>cheers, from a place with blue skies, mid-20s temperatures and low hum= idity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ian</DIV> <DIV><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 26/7/10, Hamish Brown <I><perfect_brown@xtra.co.= nz></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5= px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz&g= t;<BR>Subject: Re: [dq] skills<BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>Date: Monday, 26 J= uly, 2010, 11:43 AM<BR><BR> <DIV id=3Dyiv207306519> <STYLE> <!-- #yiv207306519 =20 _filtered #yiv207306519 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;= } _filtered #yiv207306519 {font-family:"Palatino Linotype";panose-1:2 4 5 2 = 5 5 5 3 3 4;} #yiv207306519 =20 #yiv207306519 p.MsoNormal, #yiv207306519 li.MsoNormal, #yiv207306519 div.Ms= oNormal =09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times Ne= w Roman";} #yiv207306519 a:link, #yiv207306519 span.MsoHyperlink =09{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv207306519 a:visited, #yiv207306519 span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed =09{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv207306519 p =09{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times Ne= w Roman";} #yiv207306519 span.EmailStyle18 =09{font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv207306519 {margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} #yiv207306519 div.Section1 =09{} --> </STYLE> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">Hi there Dylan</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">I think that basically the line with developments to the DQ syst= em we are using is that any change has to be based on us collectivly agreei= ng that there is a broken thing that we want to fix.  So if there is s= omething that seems broken the first hurdle is would most of us agree its b= roken.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">The system doent seem be =E2=80=98in development=E2=80=99 in the= sense that as people have cool ideas others take them up and something get= s changed.  This bugged me for quite a long time when I first started = playing but eventually I decided it was a good thing.  It means the wo= rld is basically stable.  </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">That being said players often don=E2=80=99t realise that almost = anything is possible it took me years to work out how to relate to the GM= =E2=80=99s so that they would get involved with my character development an= d make pronoucments from on high (read write-ups) that my toon broke the ru= les in some specific way.  (i.e. I was a crazy mo-fo acrobat that coul= d leap over people and kill them from behind;  yes one of my toons doe= s this).  In fact I think this is far better than everyone being able = to do (what ever it is) because if everyone could then it would be boring.<= /SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">I bet every person whos been around a while could make quite a l= ong list of things we should never have changed and I bet that everyones li= st would be different.  I know I have a list like this.</SPAN></FONT><= /DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">However I agree with Jono warrior is broken.  The pathetic = incremental improvements to stuff are boring and too weak for the ep cost.&= nbsp; However I play 2 high level warriors and don=E2=80=99t agree with the= widly held view that warriors are under powered compaired to mages.  = Neither of mine are, mostly because they can do damage directly to enduranc= e.  The Warrior skill should give a set of cool abilities achieved at = specific levels as well as the boring incremental improvemts.  So if s= omeone proposed this and we could balance it so as not to break things than= I would probably like it.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">Cheers Hamish</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter><FONT si= ze=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><F= ONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 1= 0pt"> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>RPer 4eva<BR><B><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:13 PM<BR>= <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [dq] skills</SPAN>= </FONT></DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"T= imes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I'm mainly just advocating = 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being in use. I wouldn't advocate= half the list as generic skills but included them all just for the sake of= completeness. I don't think anyone wants half the guild to be vamperic thr= alls. I'm considering starting a new thread specificaly about weaponmaster = since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I thought.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <<A h= ref=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dchriscaulf@gmail.com"= rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:chriscaulf@gmail.com">chr= iscaulf@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the = last 20 years or so and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both comb= at and out of combat roles.    The game changes in small incremen= ts not wholesale additions and there has to be something an existing skill = doesn't or couldn't cover with some modification.      Many = of the skills you detail here could be played under other skills (or are) o= r they simply define your PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the c= haracter, not by the title of the skill they use. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"T= imes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>   </SPAN= ></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <<A href= =3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmsnoverflow@gmail.com" r= el=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:msnoverflow@gmail.com">msno= verflow@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post hel= ps me with that. We have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the b= ig axe. These skills while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought = people would be more interested in non combat skills than in any new combat= skills otherwise I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit= many peoples concepts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people = to put forward specific problems with new skills is not to put the work on = them but so that I learn and if I feel the need to put forward another prop= osal it won't be flawed in the same way this is. I was under the impression= that people were going to be much against adding combat capabilities but i= f I understand your post I should instead put forward more of them?</SPAN><= /FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"T= imes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dylan</SPAN></FONT></DIV></= DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <<A = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dchriscaulf@gmail.com= " rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:chriscaulf@gmail.com">ch= riscaulf@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"T= imes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer= and Orator are what do it for me.   I can't wait until the right= moment to proclaim how good I am at such useless skills.   = They will just add true depth when i try and ward the great axe blow from = my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to unearth the tomb I'm plund= ering.<BR><BR>Most all of the skills here are character background skills a= nd have no real use in a DQ game.<BR>We have the skill sets we have as they= are useful in a game, almost anything else can be ranked as an artisan typ= e skill as background.        While we have lots of thi= ngs pseudo imported from other systems the breadth of prestige classes you = propose are not required in DQ (IMHO of course) and would only add complexi= ty not enjoyment to the game.    </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <<A hre= f=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dawithy@ihug.co.nz" rel= =3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">awithy@ihu= g.co.nz</A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt s= olid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LE= FT: 4.8pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium= none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ooh! I want Dramatic = Architecture! Now there=E2=80=99s a skill that DQ=E2=80=99s been missing.</= SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT><= /DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter><FONT si= ze=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><F= ONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 1= 0pt"> <A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq= ..sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf= ..org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A> [mailto:<A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.= yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_b= lank ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>] <B= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Greg Graydon<BR>= <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, 23 July 2010 = 9:57 a.m. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMIL= Y: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</S= PAN></B> <A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq.sf= ..org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">= dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN>= </B> Re: [dq] skills</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=E2=80=A6 </SPAN></FO= NT><FONT color=3Dblue size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Ari= al; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">  Unless I took into account my rank= 3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 spatial </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D= navy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; = FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=E2=80=A6</SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV= ></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td><= /tr></table> --0-1519675091-1280128304=:20461-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] What is wrong with Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills
From	Jim Arona
Date	Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:57:50 +1200
1) The stupidly complicated number of weapons and Ranks you have to gain to advance in the Skill. 2) The variable defence Warriors get depending on the weapon they're facing. Other than that, it's not too bad. It's bland but that just means players have a reason to look for a refinement. On 26/07/2010, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > hi there, > > Can Hamish and Jono, and others knowledgeable about Warrior (say the > Author), help me by listing what is wrong with Warrior? > and what is good about it. > > something like: > What Warrior was designed to achieve > What Warrior was deliberately designed to not allow or encourage > What are the successes of Warrior > What are the failures of Warrior? > > Are the failures sufficiently significant to warrant a change? > > If the failures warrant change, then what do we need to change about > Warrior? > 1. its purpose? > 2. its self-imposed limitations? > 3. how it seeks to achieve its purpose? > 4. what do we need to add to remedy its failures. > > I am in Australia and receiving DQ posts releives some of the > disconnection.. > A framework to fit the various points would really help. > At the moment i have the urge to delete any further posts unread as they are > generally about a solution looking for a problem. > > cheers, from a place with blue skies, mid-20s temperatures and low > humidity.. > > Ian > > --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > > From: Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [dq] skills > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 11:43 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi there Dylan > > I think that basically the line with developments to the DQ system we are > using is that any change has to be based on us collectivly agreeing that > there is a broken thing that we want to fix. So if there is something that > seems broken the first hurdle is would most of us agree its broken. > > The system doent seem be �in development� in the sense that as people have > cool ideas others take them up and something gets changed. This bugged me > for quite a long time when I first started playing but eventually I decided > it was a good thing. It means the world is basically stable. > > That being said players often don�t realise that almost anything is possible > it took me years to work out how to relate to the GM�s so that they would > get involved with my character development and make pronoucments from on > high (read write-ups) that my toon broke the rules in some specific way. > (i.e. I was a crazy mo-fo acrobat that could leap over people and kill them > from behind; yes one of my toons does this). In fact I think this is far > better than everyone being able to do (what ever it is) because if everyone > could then it would be boring. > > I bet every person whos been around a while could make quite a long list of > things we should never have changed and I bet that everyones list would be > different. I know I have a list like this. > > However I agree with Jono warrior is broken. The pathetic incremental > improvements to stuff are boring and too weak for the ep cost. However I > play 2 high level warriors and don�t agree with the widly held view that > warriors are under powered compaired to mages. Neither of mine are, mostly > because they can do damage directly to endurance. The Warrior skill should > give a set of cool abilities achieved at specific levels as well as the > boring incremental improvemts. So if someone proposed this and we could > balance it so as not to break things than I would probably like it. > > Cheers Hamish > > > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of RPer > 4eva > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:13 PM > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] skills > > I'm mainly just advocating 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being > in use. I wouldn't advocate half the list as generic skills but included > them all just for the sake of completeness. I don't think anyone wants half > the guild to be vamperic thralls. I'm considering starting a new thread > specificaly about weaponmaster since people aren't nearly as anti combat as > I thought. > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> > wrote: > The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the last 20 years or so > and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both combat and out of combat > roles. The game changes in small increments not wholesale additions and > there has to be something an existing skill doesn't or couldn't cover with > some modification. Many of the skills you detail here could be played > under other skills (or are) or they simply define your PC a certain way, > which is how you roleplay the character, not by the title of the skill they > use. > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <msnoverflow@gmail.com> wrote: > > I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post helps me with that. We > have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the big axe. These skills > while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought people would be more > interested in non combat skills than in any new combat skills otherwise I > would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit many peoples > concepts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people to put forward > specific problems with new skills is not to put the work on them but so that > I learn and if I feel the need to put forward another proposal it won't be > flawed in the same way this is. I was under the impression that people were > going to be much against adding combat capabilities but if I understand your > post I should instead put forward more of them? > > Dylan > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> > wrote: > oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer and Orator are what do it for me. I can't wait > until the right moment to proclaim how good I am at such useless skills. > They will just add true depth when i try and ward the great axe blow from my > bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to unearth the tomb I'm > plundering. > > Most all of the skills here are character background skills and have no real > use in a DQ game. > We have the skill sets we have as they are useful in a game, almost anything > else can be ranked as an artisan type skill as background. While we > have lots of things pseudo imported from other systems the breadth of > prestige classes you propose are not required in DQ (IMHO of course) and > would only add complexity not enjoyment to the game. > > > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > > > > > > Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there�s a skill that DQ�s been > missing. > > > > > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Greg > Graydon > Sent: Friday, 23 July 2010 9:57 a.m. > > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] skills > > > > � Unless I took into account my rank 3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 > spatial � > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] What is wrong with Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills
From	Hamish Brown
Date	Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:04:44 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CB2D06.2C4D7AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yea Jim said it (fancy us agreeing Jim) Hidious amounts of time and EP to advance it with only a little boring return. The main return is that you can call your self a Warrior (or a Master Warrior at rk8) which draws the parties attention to the fact that you like to hit stuff. My high level warrior has a strike chance of 170ish (8 from warrior) damage of D+26 ish (1 point from warrior) IV of 100ish (8pts from warrior) But warrior skill took 90% of my time and ep to get these stats. Sure the stats are higher than many but the cost for benefit is rediculous - I only ever use 2 wepons a holy sword and main gauch also unarmed (have never picked up any other wep except in training, ever). The defence problem could be easily fixed so that it was 2 per rank for melee or close attacks. I would like to see us sex it up so that Warriors shape the combat more as a result of their particular skills, but I suspect that too few people will want to see the sorts of abilities I proposed eairlyer today as they would change how combats looks and feels quite a bit and also give warriors more ability to shape combat (which I think they should, and can anyway if you play em right). Hamish _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Ian Wood Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 7:12 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] What is wrong with Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills hi there, Can Hamish and Jono, and others knowledgeable about Warrior (say the Author), help me by listing what is wrong with Warrior? and what is good about it. something like: What Warrior was designed to achieve What Warrior was deliberately designed to not allow or encourage What are the successes of Warrior What are the failures of Warrior? Are the failures sufficiently significant to warrant a change? If the failures warrant change, then what do we need to change about Warrior? 1. its purpose? 2. its self-imposed limitations? 3. how it seeks to achieve its purpose? 4. what do we need to add to remedy its failures. I am in Australia and receiving DQ posts releives some of the disconnection. A framework to fit the various points would really help. At the moment i have the urge to delete any further posts unread as they are generally about a solution looking for a problem. cheers, from a place with blue skies, mid-20s temperatures and low humidity. Ian --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> wrote: From: Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> Subject: Re: [dq] skills To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 11:43 AM Hi there Dylan I think that basically the line with developments to the DQ system we are using is that any change has to be based on us collectivly agreeing that there is a broken thing that we want to fix. So if there is something that seems broken the first hurdle is would most of us agree its broken. The system doent seem be 'in development' in the sense that as people have cool ideas others take them up and something gets changed. This bugged me for quite a long time when I first started playing but eventually I decided it was a good thing. It means the world is basically stable. That being said players often don't realise that almost anything is possible it took me years to work out how to relate to the GM's so that they would get involved with my character development and make pronoucments from on high (read write-ups) that my toon broke the rules in some specific way. (i.e. I was a crazy mo-fo acrobat that could leap over people and kill them from behind; yes one of my toons does this). In fact I think this is far better than everyone being able to do (what ever it is) because if everyone could then it would be boring. I bet every person whos been around a while could make quite a long list of things we should never have changed and I bet that everyones list would be different. I know I have a list like this. However I agree with Jono warrior is broken. The pathetic incremental improvements to stuff are boring and too weak for the ep cost. However I play 2 high level warriors and don't agree with the widly held view that warriors are under powered compaired to mages. Neither of mine are, mostly because they can do damage directly to endurance. The Warrior skill should give a set of cool abilities achieved at specific levels as well as the boring incremental improvemts. So if someone proposed this and we could balance it so as not to break things than I would probably like it. Cheers Hamish _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of RPer 4eva Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:13 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills I'm mainly just advocating 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being in use. I wouldn't advocate half the list as generic skills but included them all just for the sake of completeness. I don't think anyone wants half the guild to be vamperic thralls. I'm considering starting a new thread specificaly about weaponmaster since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I thought. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield < <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chriscaulf@gmail.com> chriscaulf@gmail.com> wrote: The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the last 20 years or so and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both combat and out of combat roles. The game changes in small increments not wholesale additions and there has to be something an existing skill doesn't or couldn't cover with some modification. Many of the skills you detail here could be played under other skills (or are) or they simply define your PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the character, not by the title of the skill they use. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva < <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=msnoverflow@gmail.com> msnoverflow@gmail.com> wrote: I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post helps me with that. We have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the big axe. These skills while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought people would be more interested in non combat skills than in any new combat skills otherwise I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit many peoples concepts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people to put forward specific problems with new skills is not to put the work on them but so that I learn and if I feel the need to put forward another proposal it won't be flawed in the same way this is. I was under the impression that people were going to be much against adding combat capabilities but if I understand your post I should instead put forward more of them? Dylan On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield < <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chriscaulf@gmail.com> chriscaulf@gmail.com> wrote: oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer and Orator are what do it for me. I can't wait until the right moment to proclaim how good I am at such useless skills. They will just add true depth when i try and ward the great axe blow from my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to unearth the tomb I'm plundering. Most all of the skills here are character background skills and have no real use in a DQ game. We have the skill sets we have as they are useful in a game, almost anything else can be ranked as an artisan type skill as background. While we have lots of things pseudo imported from other systems the breadth of prestige classes you propose are not required in DQ (IMHO of course) and would only add complexity not enjoyment to the game. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy < <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=awithy@ihug.co.nz> awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there's a skill that DQ's been missing. _____ From: <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq..sf.org.nz> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto: <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Greg Graydon Sent: Friday, 23 July 2010 9:57 a.m. To: <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq@dq.sf..org.nz> dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills . Unless I took into account my rank 3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 spatial . ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CB2D06.2C4D7AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"country-region"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- #yiv207306519 =20 _filtered #yiv207306519 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 = 4;} _filtered #yiv207306519 {font-family:"Palatino Linotype";panose-1:2 4 5 = 2 5 5 5 3 3 4;} _filtered #yiv207306519 {margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} / Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"Palatino Linotype"; panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 5 5 3 3 4;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.emailstyle181 {font-family:Arial; color:navy;} span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3D"#000000" vlink=3D"#000000"> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>Yea Jim said it (fancy us agreeing Jim)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>Hidious amounts of time and EP to advance it with only a little boring = return.  The main return is that you can call your self a Warrior (or a Master = Warrior at rk8)  which draws the parties attention to the fact that you like = to hit stuff.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>My high level warrior has a strike chance of 170ish (8 from warrior) damage of = D+26 ish (1 point from warrior) IV of 100ish (8pts from = warrior)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>But warrior skill took 90% of my time and ep to get these stats.  Sure = the stats are higher than many but the cost for benefit is rediculous = – I only ever use 2 wepons a holy sword and main gauch also unarmed (have never = picked up any other wep except in training, ever).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>The defence problem could be easily fixed so that it was 2 per rank for = melee or close attacks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'>I would like to see us sex it up so that Warriors shape the combat more as a = result of their particular skills, but I suspect that too few people will want to = see the sorts of abilities I proposed eairlyer today as they would change how = combats looks and feels quite a bit and also give warriors more ability to shape = combat (which I think they should, and can anyway if you play em = right).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino = Linotype"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D3 = color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype"; color:#003366'>Hamish</span></font></st1:PersonName><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span= ></font></p> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On = Behalf Of </span></b>Ian Wood<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 26, = 2010 7:12 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [dq] What is = wrong with Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 = cellpadding=3D0> <tr> <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>hi there,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Can <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">Hamish</st1:PersonName> and Jono, and others knowledgeable about Warrior (say the Author), = help me by listing what is wrong with Warrior?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>and what is good about = it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>something = like:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>What Warrior was designed to = achieve<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>What Warrior was deliberately designed to = not allow or encourage<br> What are the successes of Warrior<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>What are the failures of = Warrior?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Are the failures sufficiently significant = to warrant a change?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>If the failures warrant change, then what = do we need to change about Warrior?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>1. its purpose? = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>2. its self-imposed = limitations?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>3. how it seeks to achieve its = purpose?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>4. what do we need to add to remedy its = failures.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I am in <st1:country-region = w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region> and receiving = DQ posts releives some of the disconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>A framework to fit the various points would = really help.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>At the moment i have the urge to delete any = further posts unread as they are generally about a solution looking for a = problem.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>cheers, from a place with blue skies, = mid-20s temperatures and low humidity.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Ian<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> --- On <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Mon, 26/7/10, = <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Hamish</st1:PersonName> Brown <i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'><<st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">perfect_brown@xtra.co</st1:PersonName>.nz></span></i></spa= n></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> From: <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Hamish</st1:PersonName> Brown = <<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">perfect_brown@xtra.co</st1:PersonName>.nz><br> Subject: Re: [dq] skills<br> To: <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br> Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 11:43 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div id=3Dyiv207306519> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#003366'>Hi there = Dylan</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#003366'>I think that basically = the line with developments to the DQ system we are using is that any = change has to be based on us collectivly agreeing that there is a broken thing = that we want to fix.  So if there is something that seems broken the = first hurdle is would most of us agree its = broken.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#003366'>The system doent seem = be ‘in development’ in the sense that as people have cool = ideas others take them up and something gets changed.  This bugged me = for quite a long time when I first started playing but eventually I = decided it was a good thing.  It means the world is basically stable.  = </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#003366'>That being said players = often don’t realise that almost anything is possible it took me years = to work out how to relate to the GM’s so that they would get involved = with my character development and make pronoucments from on high (read = write-ups) that my toon broke the rules in some specific way.  (i.e. I was a = crazy mo-fo acrobat that could leap over people and kill them from = behind;  yes one of my toons does this).  In fact I think this is far = better than everyone being able to do (what ever it is) because if everyone could = then it would be boring.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#003366'>I bet every person whos = been around a while could make quite a long list of things we should never = have changed and I bet that everyones list would be different.  I know = I have a list like this.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#003366'>However I agree with = Jono warrior is broken.  The pathetic incremental improvements to = stuff are boring and too weak for the ep cost.  However I play 2 high level warriors and don’t agree with the widly held view that warriors = are under powered compaired to mages.  Neither of mine are, mostly = because they can do damage directly to endurance.  The Warrior skill = should give a set of cool abilities achieved at specific levels as well as the = boring incremental improvemts.  So if someone proposed this and we could balance it so as not to break things than I would probably like = it.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino = Linotype";color:#003366'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3D"#003366" face=3D"Palatino Linotype"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#003366'>Cheers <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">Hamish</st1:PersonName></span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter = style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 = face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On = Behalf Of </span></b>RPer 4eva<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July = 24, 2010 1:13 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = skills</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I'm = mainly just advocating 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being in use. I = wouldn't advocate half the list as generic skills but included them all just = for the sake of completeness. I don't think anyone wants half the guild to be vamperic thralls. I'm considering starting a new thread specificaly = about weaponmaster since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I = thought.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>On = Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dchriscaulf@gmail.c= om" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:chriscaulf@gmail.com"><u><font = color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'>chriscaulf@gmail.com</span></font></u></a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The = skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the last 20 years or so and have = enabled roleplaying with that range, both combat and out of combat roles.    The game changes in small increments not wholesale = additions and there has to be something an existing skill doesn't or couldn't cover = with some modification.      Many of the skills you detail = here could be played under other skills (or are) or they simply define your = PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the character, not by the title = of the skill they use. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> <br>    <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>On = Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmsnoverflow@gmail.= com" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:msnoverflow@gmail.com"><u><font = color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'>msnoverflow@gmail.com</span></font></u></a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I = am trying to learn here and I don't think this post helps me with that. We have = skills on the books that don't help me avoid the big axe. These skills while not = useful in combat are not useless. I thought people would be more interested = in non combat skills than in any new combat skills otherwise I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit many peoples concepts better = than warrior. The main reason I asked people to put forward specific = problems with new skills is not to put the work on them but so that I learn and if I = feel the need to put forward another proposal it won't be flawed in the = same way this is. I was under the impression that people were going to be much = against adding combat capabilities but if I understand your post I should = instead put forward more of them?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Dylan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>On = Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dchriscaulf@gmail.c= om" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:chriscaulf@gmail.com"><u><font = color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'>chriscaulf@gmail.com</span></font></u></a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>oh = oh, Scribe, Cartographer and Orator are what do it for me.   I can't = wait until the right moment to proclaim how good I am at such useless skills.    They will just add true depth when i try and = ward the great axe blow from my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved = to unearth the tomb I'm plundering.<br> <br> Most all of the skills here are character background skills and have = no real use in a DQ game.<br> We have the skill sets we have as they are useful in a game, almost = anything else can be ranked as an artisan type skill as background.   =      While we have lots of things pseudo imported from other = systems the breadth of prestige classes you propose are not required in DQ = (IMHO of course) and would only add complexity not enjoyment to the game.  =   <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>On = Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dawithy@ihug.co.nz"= target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz"><u><font = color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'>awithy@ihug.co.nz</span></font></u></a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC = 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; = margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>= <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there’s a = skill that DQ’s been missing.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter = style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 = face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq..sf.or= g.nz" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf..org.nz"><u><font = color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'>dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</span></font></u></a> = [mailto:<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org= .nz" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz"><u><font = color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'>dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</span></font></u></a>] = <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Greg Graydon<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, 23 July = 2010 9:57 a.m. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq.sf..org.nz" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz"><u><font = color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'>dq@dq.sf.org.nz</span></font></u></a><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = skills</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>… </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>  Unless = I took into account my rank 3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 spatial = </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>…</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </td> </tr> </table> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CB2D06.2C4D7AC0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] What is wrong with Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills
From	Ian Wood
Date	Mon, 26 Jul 2010 02:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
--0-241224905-1280136079=:78830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thanks Hamish and Jim, =C2=A0 it would be good if the purpose and intended limits of Warrior could be exp= lained (say by the author) cheers, Ian --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> wrote: From: Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> Subject: Re: [dq] What is wrong with Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 9:04 PM Yea Jim said it (fancy us agreeing Jim) =C2=A0 Hidious amounts of time and EP to advance it with only a little boring retu= rn.=C2=A0 The main return is that you can call your self a Warrior (or a Ma= ster Warrior at rk8)=C2=A0 which draws the parties attention to the fact th= at you like to hit stuff. =C2=A0 My high level warrior has a strike chance of 170ish (8 from warrior) damage= of D+26 ish (1 point from warrior) IV of 100ish (8pts from warrior) But warrior skill took 90% of my time and ep to get these stats.=C2=A0 Sure= the stats are higher than many but the cost for benefit is rediculous =E2= =80=93 I only ever use 2 wepons a holy sword and main gauch also unarmed (h= ave never picked up any other wep except in training, ever). =C2=A0 The defence problem could be easily fixed so that it was 2 per rank for mel= ee or close attacks. =C2=A0 I would like to see us sex it up so that Warriors shape the combat more as = a result of their particular skills, but I suspect that too few people will= want to see the sorts of abilities I proposed eairlyer today as they would= change how combats looks and feels quite a bit and also give warriors more= ability to shape combat (which I think they should, and can anyway if you = play em right). =C2=A0 Hamish From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Ian= Wood Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 7:12 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] What is wrong with Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills =C2=A0 hi there, =C2=A0 Can Hamish and Jono, and others knowledgeable about Warrior (say the Author= ), help me by listing what is wrong with Warrior? and what is good about it. =C2=A0 something like: What Warrior was designed to achieve What Warrior was deliberately designed to not allow or encourage What are the successes of Warrior What are the failures of Warrior? =C2=A0 Are the failures sufficiently significant to warrant a change? =C2=A0 If the failures warrant change, then what do we need to change about Warrio= r? 1. its purpose?=20 2. its self-imposed limitations? 3. how it seeks to achieve its purpose? 4. what do we need to add to remedy its failures. =C2=A0 I am in Australia and receiving DQ posts releives some of the disconnection= .. A framework to fit the various points would really help. At the moment i have the urge to delete any further posts unread as they ar= e generally about a solution looking for a problem. =C2=A0 cheers, from a place with blue skies, mid-20s temperatures and low humidity= .. =C2=A0 Ian --- On Mon, 26/7/10, Hamish Brown < perfect_brown@xtra.co .nz> wrote: From: Hamish Brown < perfect_brown@xtra.co .nz> Subject: Re: [dq] skills To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 11:43 AM Hi there Dylan =C2=A0 I think that basically the line with developments to the DQ system we are u= sing is that any change has to be based on us collectivly agreeing that the= re is a broken thing that we want to fix.=C2=A0 So if there is something th= at seems broken the first hurdle is would most of us agree its broken. =C2=A0 The system doent seem be =E2=80=98in development=E2=80=99 in the sense that= as people have cool ideas others take them up and something gets changed.= =C2=A0 This bugged me for quite a long time when I first started playing bu= t eventually I decided it was a good thing.=C2=A0 It means the world is bas= ically stable.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 That being said players often don=E2=80=99t realise that almost anything is= possible it took me years to work out how to relate to the GM=E2=80=99s so= that they would get involved with my character development and make pronou= cments from on high (read write-ups) that my toon broke the rules in some s= pecific way.=C2=A0 (i.e. I was a crazy mo-fo acrobat that could leap over p= eople and kill them from behind;=C2=A0 yes one of my toons does this).=C2= =A0 In fact I think this is far better than everyone being able to do (what= ever it is) because if everyone could then it would be boring. =C2=A0 I bet every person whos been around a while could make quite a long list of= things we should never have changed and I bet that everyones list would be= different.=C2=A0 I know I have a list like this. =C2=A0 However I agree with Jono warrior is broken.=C2=A0 The pathetic incremental= improvements to stuff are boring and too weak for the ep cost.=C2=A0 Howev= er I play 2 high level warriors and don=E2=80=99t agree with the widly held= view that warriors are under powered compaired to mages.=C2=A0 Neither of = mine are, mostly because they can do damage directly to endurance.=C2=A0 Th= e Warrior skill should give a set of cool abilities achieved at specific le= vels as well as the boring incremental improvemts.=C2=A0 So if someone prop= osed this and we could balance it so as not to break things than I would pr= obably like it. =C2=A0 Cheers Hamish From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of RPe= r 4eva Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:13 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills =C2=A0 I'm mainly just advocating 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being = in use. I wouldn't advocate half the list as generic skills but included th= em all just for the sake of completeness. I don't think anyone wants half t= he guild to be vamperic thralls. I'm considering starting a new thread spec= ificaly about weaponmaster since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I t= hought. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> wro= te: The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the last 20 years or s= o and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both combat and out of comb= at roles. =C2=A0=C2=A0 The game changes in small increments not wholesale a= dditions and there has to be something an existing skill doesn't or couldn'= t cover with some modification. =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Many of the skills you = detail here could be played under other skills (or are) or they simply defi= ne your PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the character, not by t= he title of the skill they use.=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=20 On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <msnoverflow@gmail.com> wrote: I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post helps me with that. W= e have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the big axe. These skil= ls while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought people would be mo= re interested in non combat skills than in any new combat skills otherwise = I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit many peoples conc= epts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people to put forward spe= cific problems with new skills is not to put the work on them but so that I= learn and if I feel the need to put forward another proposal it won't be f= lawed in the same way this is. I was under the impression that people were = going to be much against adding combat capabilities but if I understand you= r post I should instead put forward more of them? Dylan On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <chriscaulf@gmail.com> wr= ote: oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer and Orator are what do it for me.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I= can't wait until the right moment to proclaim how good I am at such useles= s skills.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 They will just add true depth when i try and wa= rd the great axe blow from my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to= unearth the tomb I'm plundering. Most all of the skills here are character background skills and have no rea= l use in a DQ game. We have the skill sets we have as they are useful in a game, almost anythin= g else can be ranked as an artisan type skill as background. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0 While we have lots of things pseudo imported from other system= s the breadth of prestige classes you propose are not required in DQ (IMHO = of course) and would only add complexity not enjoyment to the game.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=20 On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote: Ooh! I want Dramatic Architecture! Now there=E2=80=99s a skill that DQ=E2= =80=99s been missing. =C2=A0 From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Gre= g Graydon Sent: Friday, 23 July 2010 9:57 a.m.=20 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] skills =C2=A0 =E2=80=A6 =C2=A0 Unless I took into account my rank 3 in dramatic architect= ure and rank 4 spatial =E2=80=A6=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --0-241224905-1280136079=:78830 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"= top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>thanks Hamish and Jim,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it would be good if the purpose and intended limits of Warrior could b= e explained (say by the author)</DIV> <DIV>cheers,</DIV> <DIV>Ian<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 26/7/10, Hamish Brown <I><perfect_brown@x= tra.co.nz></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5= px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz&g= t;<BR>Subject: Re: [dq] What is wrong with Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills<BR>To:= dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 9:04 PM<BR><BR> <DIV id=3Dyiv962378174> <STYLE> <!-- #yiv962378174 #yiv207306519 =20 filtered #yiv207306519 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv962378174 filtered #yiv207306519 {font-family:"Palatino Linotype";panos= e-1:2 4 5 2 5 5 5 3 3 4;} #yiv962378174 filtered #yiv207306519 {margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} #yiv962378174 =20 _filtered #yiv962378174 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;= } _filtered #yiv962378174 {font-family:"Palatino Linotype";panose-1:2 4 5 2 = 5 5 5 3 3 4;} #yiv962378174 =20 #yiv962378174 p.MsoNormal, #yiv962378174 li.MsoNormal, #yiv962378174 div.Ms= oNormal =09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times Ne= w Roman";} #yiv962378174 p =09{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times Ne= w Roman";} #yiv962378174 span.emailstyle181 =09{font-family:Arial;color:navy;} #yiv962378174 span.EmailStyle20 =09{font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv962378174 {margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} #yiv962378174 div.Section1 =09{} --> </STYLE> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">Yea Jim said it (fancy us agreeing Jim)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">Hidious amounts of time and EP to advance it with only a little = boring return.  The main return is that you can call your self a Warri= or (or a Master Warrior at rk8)  which draws the parties attention to = the fact that you like to hit stuff.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">My high level warrior has a strike chance of 170ish (8 from warr= ior) damage of D+26 ish (1 point from warrior) IV of 100ish (8pts from warr= ior)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">But warrior skill took 90% of my time and ep to get these stats.=   Sure the stats are higher than many but the cost for benefit is redi= culous =E2=80=93 I only ever use 2 wepons a holy sword and main gauch also = unarmed (have never picked up any other wep except in training, ever).</SPA= N></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">The defence problem could be easily fixed so that it was 2 per r= ank for melee or close attacks.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">I would like to see us sex it up so that Warriors shape the comb= at more as a result of their particular skills, but I suspect that too few = people will want to see the sorts of abilities I proposed eairlyer today as= they would change how combats looks and feels quite a bit and also give wa= rriors more ability to shape combat (which I think they should, and can any= way if you play em right).</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">Hamish</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SP= AN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT= ></DIV> <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter><FONT si= ze=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><F= ONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 1= 0pt"> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Ian Wood<BR><B><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 26, 2010 7:12 PM<BR><B= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B><SP= AN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [dq] What is wrong with = Warrior? WAS: [dq] skills</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PA= DDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=3Dtop> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">hi there,</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Can Hamish and Jono, and others knowledgeable about Warri= or (say the Author), help me by listing what is wrong with Warrior?</SPAN><= /FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">and what is good about it.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">something like:</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">What Warrior was designed to achieve</SPAN></FONT></DIV><= /DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">What Warrior was deliberately designed to not allow or en= courage<BR>What are the successes of Warrior</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">What are the failures of Warrior?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DI= V> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Are the failures sufficiently significant to warrant a ch= ange?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">If the failures warrant change, then what do we need to c= hange about Warrior?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">1. its purpose? </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2. its self-imposed limitations?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV= > <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">3. how it seeks to achieve its purpose?</SPAN></FONT></DI= V></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">4. what do we need to add to remedy its failures.</SPAN><= /FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I am in Australia and receiving DQ posts releives some of= the disconnection.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">A framework to fit the various points would really help.<= /SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">At the moment i have the urge to delete any further posts= unread as they are generally about a solution looking for a problem.</SPAN= ></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">cheers, from a place with blue skies, mid-20s temperature= s and low humidity.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Ian</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>--- On <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Mon, 26/7= /10, Hamish Brown <I><SPAN style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic">< perfect_brown@= xtra.co .nz></SPAN></I></SPAN></B> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt= solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RI= GHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"T= imes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>From: Hamish Brown <= perfect_brown@xtra.co .nz><BR>Subject: Re: [dq] skills<BR>To: dq@dq.sf.= org.nz<BR>Date: Monday, 26 July, 2010, 11:43 AM</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV id=3Dyiv207306519> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">Hi there Dylan</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">I think that basically the line with developments to the DQ syst= em we are using is that any change has to be based on us collectivly agreei= ng that there is a broken thing that we want to fix.  So if there is s= omething that seems broken the first hurdle is would most of us agree its b= roken.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">The system doent seem be =E2=80=98in development=E2=80=99 in the= sense that as people have cool ideas others take them up and something get= s changed.  This bugged me for quite a long time when I first started = playing but eventually I decided it was a good thing.  It means the wo= rld is basically stable.  </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">That being said players often don=E2=80=99t realise that almost = anything is possible it took me years to work out how to relate to the GM= =E2=80=99s so that they would get involved with my character development an= d make pronoucments from on high (read write-ups) that my toon broke the ru= les in some specific way.  (i.e. I was a crazy mo-fo acrobat that coul= d leap over people and kill them from behind;  yes one of my toons doe= s this).  In fact I think this is far better than everyone being able = to do (what ever it is) because if everyone could then it would be boring.<= /SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">I bet every person whos been around a while could make quite a l= ong list of things we should never have changed and I bet that everyones li= st would be different.  I know I have a list like this.</SPAN></FONT><= /DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">However I agree with Jono warrior is broken.  The pathetic = incremental improvements to stuff are boring and too weak for the ep cost.&= nbsp; However I play 2 high level warriors and don=E2=80=99t agree with the= widly held view that warriors are under powered compaired to mages.  = Neither of mine are, mostly because they can do damage directly to enduranc= e.  The Warrior skill should give a set of cool abilities achieved at = specific levels as well as the boring incremental improvemts.  So if s= omeone proposed this and we could balance it so as not to break things than= I would probably like it.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3D#003366 size=3D3 face=3D"Palatino Linoty= pe"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype'; COLOR: #003366; FONT-S= IZE: 12pt">Cheers Hamish</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter><FONT si= ze=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><F= ONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 1= 0pt"> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>RPer 4eva<BR><B><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:13 PM<BR>= <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [dq] skills</SPAN>= </FONT></DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"T= imes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I'm mainly just advocating = 3 of which I withdrew 1 due to it already being in use. I wouldn't advocate= half the list as generic skills but included them all just for the sake of= completeness. I don't think anyone wants half the guild to be vamperic thr= alls. I'm considering starting a new thread specificaly about weaponmaster = since people aren't nearly as anti combat as I thought.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Chris Caulfield <<A h= ref=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dchriscaulf@gmail.com"= rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank><U><FONT color=3Dblue><SPAN style=3D"COLOR:= blue">chriscaulf@gmail.com</SPAN></FONT></U></A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT><= /DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The skillsets we have in play atm have been used for the = last 20 years or so and have enabled roleplaying with that range, both comb= at and out of combat roles.    The game changes in small incremen= ts not wholesale additions and there has to be something an existing skill = doesn't or couldn't cover with some modification.      Many = of the skills you detail here could be played under other skills (or are) o= r they simply define your PC a certain way, which is how you roleplay the c= haracter, not by the title of the skill they use. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"T= imes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>   </SPAN= ></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, RPer 4eva <<A href= =3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmsnoverflow@gmail.com" r= el=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank><U><FONT color=3Dblue><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: b= lue">msnoverflow@gmail.com</SPAN></FONT></U></A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></= DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I am trying to learn here and I don't think this post hel= ps me with that. We have skills on the books that don't help me avoid the b= ig axe. These skills while not useful in combat are not useless. I thought = people would be more interested in non combat skills than in any new combat= skills otherwise I would have put forward weapon master which seems to fit= many peoples concepts better than warrior. The main reason I asked people = to put forward specific problems with new skills is not to put the work on = them but so that I learn and if I feel the need to put forward another prop= osal it won't be flawed in the same way this is. I was under the impression= that people were going to be much against adding combat capabilities but i= f I understand your post I should instead put forward more of them?</SPAN><= /FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"T= imes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dylan</SPAN></FONT></DIV></= DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Chris Caulfield <<A = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dchriscaulf@gmail.com= " rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank><U><FONT color=3Dblue><SPAN style=3D"COLOR= : blue">chriscaulf@gmail.com</SPAN></FONT></U></A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT>= </DIV></DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"T= imes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">oh oh, Scribe, Cartographer= and Orator are what do it for me.   I can't wait until the right= moment to proclaim how good I am at such useless skills.   = They will just add true depth when i try and ward the great axe blow from = my bleeding skull or try to get a stone moved to unearth the tomb I'm plund= ering.<BR><BR>Most all of the skills here are character background skills a= nd have no real use in a DQ game.<BR>We have the skill sets we have as they= are useful in a game, almost anything else can be ranked as an artisan typ= e skill as background.        While we have lots of thi= ngs pseudo imported from other systems the breadth of prestige classes you = propose are not required in DQ (IMHO of course) and would only add complexi= ty not enjoyment to the game.    </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Andrew Withy <<A hre= f=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dawithy@ihug.co.nz" rel= =3Dnofollow target=3D_blank><U><FONT color=3Dblue><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: blu= e">awithy@ihug.co.nz</SPAN></FONT></U></A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV></= DIV></DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt s= olid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PA= DDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDI= NG-TOP: 0in"> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ooh! I want Dramatic = Architecture! Now there=E2=80=99s a skill that DQ=E2=80=99s been missing.</= SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT><= /DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter><FONT si= ze=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FA= MILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><F= ONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 1= 0pt"> <A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq= ...sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank><U><FONT color=3Dblue><SPAN sty= le=3D"COLOR: blue">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</SPAN></FONT></U></A> [mailto:<A h= ref=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz= " rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank><U><FONT color=3Dblue><SPAN style=3D"COLOR= : blue">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</SPAN></FONT></U></A>] <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT= -WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Greg Graydon<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FO= NT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, 23 July 2010 9:57 a.m. </SPAN></F= ONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMIL= Y: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</S= PAN></B> <A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq.sf= ...org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank><U><FONT color=3Dblue><SPAN style= =3D"COLOR: blue">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</SPAN></FONT></U></A><BR><B><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [dq] skills</SPAN></FONT></DIV>= </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=E2=80=A6 </SPAN></FO= NT><FONT color=3Dblue size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Ari= al; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">  Unless I took into account my rank= 3 in dramatic architecture and rank 4 spatial </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D= navy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; = FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=E2=80=A6</SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D= "FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td><= /tr></table> --0-241224905-1280136079=:78830-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --