Someone asked about the original aims of Warrior, I believe that like most things there were
several agendas involved, but the main motivation was a toe-to-toe fighting skill for the
fighter types who didn't want to be assassins.  It was intentionally costly in time (weapon
rank dependencies) and experience to discourage mages and mage-fighters from dabbling in it.


Issues with Warrior...

1) Defence depending on opponents weapon - nice idea, a pain at run time.  Varying your
defence depending on what the opponent is using just slows down combat which detracts from the
overall fun.

2) The Warrior Weapon Rank dependency tree - again nice idea, too complicated, confuses some
people.  Leads to mistakes in ranking or it just being ignored.

3) Defence Bonus (2/rk) is greater than Attack Bonus (1/Rk) - more Def than SC makes combats
take longer, more frustrating misses for players and GMs.  More SC over Def makes for faster,
bloodier combats.

4) The half-attempt to include 'chivalrous combat' is a pain - if my opponent is stunned,
turns their back, etc. then I need to take my Warrior bonuses to IV, SC, Dam,... off again. 
Changing and recalculating numbers mid-combat just slows things down.  And it is not common
sense.

5) It's just a bunch of numbers, not much pizazz.  This one doesn't bother me so much as
combat is all about the numbers, but some extra pizazz is always nice.


Proposed Solution (first working draft)...

* Warrior is defined as a skill encompassing several 'schools' of advanced weapons and combat
training.  The schools vary in their style and in which weapon categories and special
abilities they can teach.

NB The 'schools' are implemented at campaign level and affect what you can learn, the net game
effect is defined by this skill.

* Assassin teaches a school of fighting that does not stack with Warrior schools.  The
benefits of Warrior OR Assassin (not both) may be applied to any specific attack or defence.

E.g. Rk5War/Rk5Ass attacks facing opponent and chooses to apply War benefits (+5%/+1Dam), next
action the opponent has turned to flee so they chose to apply their Ass benefit (+5 dam).

In campaign, some Warrior Schools will not teach Assassins, some probably won't even teach
Warriors of other schools, and others will or maybe won't check too rigorously.  But this is
all resolved at a campaign and character level where philosophies and beliefs should be
applied.

* Warriors may only apply their weapon based abilities to weapons from categories they have
gained.  They gain 1 category at Rk 0 and 1 per rank.  May instead choose to specialise in a
category to be effectively 1 rank higher in that cat (capped at max rk 10).  A Warrior can
pick up additional categories at 5,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).
A Warrior must have at least 4 ranks in weapons in a category before they may acquire it.

* Warrior Weapon Benefits (applies to weapons in categories they have attained)
** 2% + 2% per rank to SC (double current bonus)
** +1 damage at ranks 5 & 10 (unchanged)
** +1 Parry at ranks 4 & 8 (unchanged)
** +1 Engaged IV per rank (unchanged)
** May use other weapons in Category at half the rank of the best weapon in category (unchanged)
** May train in weapons in category without a trainer... (unchanged)
** May act as merchant at half their rank wrt weapons (unchanged)

* Warrior Defensive Benefits
** 2% + 2% per rank to melee defence (simplified, but similar level to current)

* Warrior Special Abilities - some are general combat abilities and only need to be learned
once, others are weapon specific and must be learned once per weapon.  A warrior gains one
special ability at ranks 5-7, 2 at rank 8, 3 at 9, 4 at 10.  Additional abilities may be
learned for 8,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).  A Warrior must be at max rank in a weapon
before they may learn a special ability with a weapon.

** Pre-Engage (General) - may choose to act on their Engaged IV provided they are within half
Warrior rank hexes of an engagement they are joining or interacting with.

** Advanced Charge (Weapon) - may move an additional 2 TMR before executing an attack, or +1
TMR before a Special Attack.

** True Riposte (Weapon) - may attempt to Parry/Riposte any attack that misses by more than
30% even if not evading, or gains +2 on the Parry Calculation if evading.

** Strong Guard (Weapon) - add 2 to effective weapon rank when defending against a
Parry/Riposte.  And may add Warrior Rank to chance of resisting a Disarm.

** Precision (Weapon) - may modify a roll on the Spec. Grev. table by up to half Warrior Rank.

** Draw and Strike (Weapon) - may prepare a weapon and strike as a Special Attack.

** Overstrike (Weapon) - may apply damage bonuses for both skill and strength as a Special
Attack.

** Off-hand (Weapon) - special training in using the weapon in either hand, treated as
ambidextrous when using this weapon.



I'm sure we could come up with a few more standard abilities.  And it's a structure that GMs
can easily add more, more powerful, or more advanced versions of abilities as adventure
awards.

Cheers, Stephen.


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

--0016361e88c6ee0473048c9320e2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

It'll take a while to take in all the specifics but I like the idea. A
little more variation and taking out the bits that are annoying. Stephen
(Our newest DM) plays an icemage and only uses one weapon. The glaive. He
takes penalties from cramped quarters or fighting in water or fighting
undead and can't learn warrior because while he is rank 9 in his weapon he
doesn't want to learn any other weapons. Speaking for him I think he'd like
this new system because he can learn to extend his capability with the
glaive without having to learn mace and dagger.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:

> Someone asked about the original aims of Warrior, I believe that like most
> things there were
> several agendas involved, but the main motivation was a toe-to-toe fighting
> skill for the
> fighter types who didn't want to be assassins.  It was intentionally costly
> in time (weapon
> rank dependencies) and experience to discourage mages and mage-fighters
> from dabbling in it.
>
>
> Issues with Warrior...
>
> 1) Defence depending on opponents weapon - nice idea, a pain at run time.
>  Varying your
> defence depending on what the opponent is using just slows down combat
> which detracts from the
> overall fun.
>
> 2) The Warrior Weapon Rank dependency tree - again nice idea, too
> complicated, confuses some
> people.  Leads to mistakes in ranking or it just being ignored.
>
> 3) Defence Bonus (2/rk) is greater than Attack Bonus (1/Rk) - more Def than
> SC makes combats
> take longer, more frustrating misses for players and GMs.  More SC over Def
> makes for faster,
> bloodier combats.
>
> 4) The half-attempt to include 'chivalrous combat' is a pain - if my
> opponent is stunned,
> turns their back, etc. then I need to take my Warrior bonuses to IV, SC,
> Dam,... off again.
> Changing and recalculating numbers mid-combat just slows things down.  And
> it is not common
> sense.
>
> 5) It's just a bunch of numbers, not much pizazz.  This one doesn't bother
> me so much as
> combat is all about the numbers, but some extra pizazz is always nice.
>
>
> Proposed Solution (first working draft)...
>
> * Warrior is defined as a skill encompassing several 'schools' of advanced
> weapons and combat
> training.  The schools vary in their style and in which weapon categories
> and special
> abilities they can teach.
>
> NB The 'schools' are implemented at campaign level and affect what you can
> learn, the net game
> effect is defined by this skill.
>
> * Assassin teaches a school of fighting that does not stack with Warrior
> schools.  The
> benefits of Warrior OR Assassin (not both) may be applied to any specific
> attack or defence.
>
> E.g. Rk5War/Rk5Ass attacks facing opponent and chooses to apply War
> benefits (+5%/+1Dam), next
> action the opponent has turned to flee so they chose to apply their Ass
> benefit (+5 dam).
>
> In campaign, some Warrior Schools will not teach Assassins, some probably
> won't even teach
> Warriors of other schools, and others will or maybe won't check too
> rigorously.  But this is
> all resolved at a campaign and character level where philosophies and
> beliefs should be
> applied.
>
> * Warriors may only apply their weapon based abilities to weapons from
> categories they have
> gained.  They gain 1 category at Rk 0 and 1 per rank.  May instead choose
> to specialise in a
> category to be effectively 1 rank higher in that cat (capped at max rk 10).
>  A Warrior can
> pick up additional categories at 5,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).
> A Warrior must have at least 4 ranks in weapons in a category before they
> may acquire it.
>
> * Warrior Weapon Benefits (applies to weapons in categories they have
> attained)
> ** 2% + 2% per rank to SC (double current bonus)
> ** +1 damage at ranks 5 & 10 (unchanged)
> ** +1 Parry at ranks 4 & 8 (unchanged)
> ** +1 Engaged IV per rank (unchanged)
> ** May use other weapons in Category at half the rank of the best weapon in
> category (unchanged)
> ** May train in weapons in category without a trainer... (unchanged)
> ** May act as merchant at half their rank wrt weapons (unchanged)
>
> * Warrior Defensive Benefits
> ** 2% + 2% per rank to melee defence (simplified, but similar level to
> current)
>
> * Warrior Special Abilities - some are general combat abilities and only
> need to be learned
> once, others are weapon specific and must be learned once per weapon.  A
> warrior gains one
> special ability at ranks 5-7, 2 at rank 8, 3 at 9, 4 at 10.  Additional
> abilities may be
> learned for 8,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).  A Warrior must be at
> max rank in a weapon
> before they may learn a special ability with a weapon.
>
> ** Pre-Engage (General) - may choose to act on their Engaged IV provided
> they are within half
> Warrior rank hexes of an engagement they are joining or interacting with.
>
> ** Advanced Charge (Weapon) - may move an additional 2 TMR before executing
> an attack, or +1
> TMR before a Special Attack.
>
> ** True Riposte (Weapon) - may attempt to Parry/Riposte any attack that
> misses by more than
> 30% even if not evading, or gains +2 on the Parry Calculation if evading.
>
> ** Strong Guard (Weapon) - add 2 to effective weapon rank when defending
> against a
> Parry/Riposte.  And may add Warrior Rank to chance of resisting a Disarm.
>
> ** Precision (Weapon) - may modify a roll on the Spec. Grev. table by up to
> half Warrior Rank.
>
> ** Draw and Strike (Weapon) - may prepare a weapon and strike as a Special
> Attack.
>
> ** Overstrike (Weapon) - may apply damage bonuses for both skill and
> strength as a Special
> Attack.
>
> ** Off-hand (Weapon) - special training in using the weapon in either hand,
> treated as
> ambidextrous when using this weapon.
>
>
>
> I'm sure we could come up with a few more standard abilities.  And it's a
> structure that GMs
> can easily add more, more powerful, or more advanced versions of abilities
> as adventure
> awards.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>

--0016361e88c6ee0473048c9320e2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It&#39;ll take a while to take in all the specifics but I like the idea. A =
little more variation and taking out the bits that are annoying. Stephen (O=
ur newest DM) plays an icemage and only uses one weapon. The glaive. He tak=
es penalties from cramped quarters or fighting in water or fighting undead =
and can&#39;t learn warrior because while he is rank 9 in his weapon he doe=
sn&#39;t want to learn any other weapons. Speaking for him I think he&#39;d=
 like this new system because he can learn to extend his capability with th=
e glaive without having to learn mace and dagger.<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Stephen Martin =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@aklnz.=
net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Someone asked about the original=
 aims of Warrior, I believe that like most things there were<br>several age=
ndas involved, but the main motivation was a toe-to-toe fighting skill for =
the<br>
fighter types who didn&#39;t want to be assassins. =A0It was intentionally =
costly in time (weapon<br>rank dependencies) and experience to discourage m=
ages and mage-fighters from dabbling in it.<br><br><br>Issues with Warrior.=
..<br>
<br>1) Defence depending on opponents weapon - nice idea, a pain at run tim=
e. =A0Varying your<br>defence depending on what the opponent is using just =
slows down combat which detracts from the<br>overall fun.<br><br>2) The War=
rior Weapon Rank dependency tree - again nice idea, too complicated, confus=
es some<br>
people. =A0Leads to mistakes in ranking or it just being ignored.<br><br>3)=
 Defence Bonus (2/rk) is greater than Attack Bonus (1/Rk) - more Def than S=
C makes combats<br>take longer, more frustrating misses for players and GMs=
. =A0More SC over Def makes for faster,<br>
bloodier combats.<br><br>4) The half-attempt to include &#39;chivalrous com=
bat&#39; is a pain - if my opponent is stunned,<br>turns their back, etc. t=
hen I need to take my Warrior bonuses to IV, SC, Dam,... off again.<br>
Changing and recalculating numbers mid-combat just slows things down. =A0An=
d it is not common<br>sense.<br><br>5) It&#39;s just a bunch of numbers, no=
t much pizazz. =A0This one doesn&#39;t bother me so much as<br>combat is al=
l about the numbers, but some extra pizazz is always nice.<br>
<br><br>Proposed Solution (first working draft)...<br><br>* Warrior is defi=
ned as a skill encompassing several &#39;schools&#39; of advanced weapons a=
nd combat<br>training. =A0The schools vary in their style and in which weap=
on categories and special<br>
abilities they can teach.<br><br>NB The &#39;schools&#39; are implemented a=
t campaign level and affect what you can learn, the net game<br>effect is d=
efined by this skill.<br><br>* Assassin teaches a school of fighting that d=
oes not stack with Warrior schools. =A0The<br>
benefits of Warrior OR Assassin (not both) may be applied to any specific a=
ttack or defence.<br><br>E.g. Rk5War/Rk5Ass attacks facing opponent and cho=
oses to apply War benefits (+5%/+1Dam), next<br>action the opponent has tur=
ned to flee so they chose to apply their Ass benefit (+5 dam).<br>
<br>In campaign, some Warrior Schools will not teach Assassins, some probab=
ly won&#39;t even teach<br>Warriors of other schools, and others will or ma=
ybe won&#39;t check too rigorously. =A0But this is<br>all resolved at a cam=
paign and character level where philosophies and beliefs should be<br>
applied.<br><br>* Warriors may only apply their weapon based abilities to w=
eapons from categories they have<br>gained. =A0They gain 1 category at Rk 0=
 and 1 per rank. =A0May instead choose to specialise in a<br>category to be=
 effectively 1 rank higher in that cat (capped at max rk 10). =A0A Warrior =
can<br>
pick up additional categories at 5,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).<br=
>A Warrior must have at least 4 ranks in weapons in a category before they =
may acquire it.<br><br>* Warrior Weapon Benefits (applies to weapons in cat=
egories they have attained)<br>
** 2% + 2% per rank to SC (double current bonus)<br>** +1 damage at ranks 5=
 &amp; 10 (unchanged)<br>** +1 Parry at ranks 4 &amp; 8 (unchanged)<br>** +=
1 Engaged IV per rank (unchanged)<br>** May use other weapons in Category a=
t half the rank of the best weapon in category (unchanged)<br>
** May train in weapons in category without a trainer... (unchanged)<br>** =
May act as merchant at half their rank wrt weapons (unchanged)<br><br>* War=
rior Defensive Benefits<br>** 2% + 2% per rank to melee defence (simplified=
, but similar level to current)<br>
<br>* Warrior Special Abilities - some are general combat abilities and onl=
y need to be learned<br>once, others are weapon specific and must be learne=
d once per weapon. =A0A warrior gains one<br>special ability at ranks 5-7, =
2 at rank 8, 3 at 9, 4 at 10. =A0Additional abilities may be<br>
learned for 8,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters). =A0A Warrior must be at=
 max rank in a weapon<br>before they may learn a special ability with a wea=
pon.<br><br>** Pre-Engage (General) - may choose to act on their Engaged IV=
 provided they are within half<br>
Warrior rank hexes of an engagement they are joining or interacting with.<b=
r><br>** Advanced Charge (Weapon) - may move an additional 2 TMR before exe=
cuting an attack, or +1<br>TMR before a Special Attack.<br><br>** True Ripo=
ste (Weapon) - may attempt to Parry/Riposte any attack that misses by more =
than<br>
30% even if not evading, or gains +2 on the Parry Calculation if evading.<b=
r><br>** Strong Guard (Weapon) - add 2 to effective weapon rank when defend=
ing against a<br>Parry/Riposte. =A0And may add Warrior Rank to chance of re=
sisting a Disarm.<br>
<br>** Precision (Weapon) - may modify a roll on the Spec. Grev. table by u=
p to half Warrior Rank.<br><br>** Draw and Strike (Weapon) - may prepare a =
weapon and strike as a Special Attack.<br><br>** Overstrike (Weapon) - may =
apply damage bonuses for both skill and strength as a Special<br>
Attack.<br><br>** Off-hand (Weapon) - special training in using the weapon =
in either hand, treated as<br>ambidextrous when using this weapon.<br><br><=
br><br>I&#39;m sure we could come up with a few more standard abilities. =
=A0And it&#39;s a structure that GMs<br>
can easily add more, more powerful, or more advanced versions of abilities =
as adventure<br>awards.<br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br><br><br>-- to unsubscrib=
e notify mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf=
.org.nz</a> --<br>
</blockquote></div><br>

--0016361e88c6ee0473048c9320e2--


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Forgot to add one more suggestion...

Add a 13th Category: Bows (Comp, Long, Short, Self, & X-Bow)

Some of the benefits/abilities obviously wouldn't be able to be applied.

Cheers, Stephen.

On Fri, July 30, 2010 4:07 pm, Stephen Martin wrote:
> Someone asked about the original aims of Warrior, I believe that like most things there were
> several agendas involved, but the main motivation was a toe-to-toe fighting skill for the
> fighter types who didn't want to be assassins.  It was intentionally costly in time (weapon
> rank dependencies) and experience to discourage mages and mage-fighters from dabbling in it.
>
>
> Issues with Warrior...
>
> 1) Defence depending on opponents weapon - nice idea, a pain at run time.  Varying your
> defence depending on what the opponent is using just slows down combat which detracts from the
> overall fun.
>
> 2) The Warrior Weapon Rank dependency tree - again nice idea, too complicated, confuses some
> people.  Leads to mistakes in ranking or it just being ignored.
>
> 3) Defence Bonus (2/rk) is greater than Attack Bonus (1/Rk) - more Def than SC makes combats
> take longer, more frustrating misses for players and GMs.  More SC over Def makes for faster,
> bloodier combats.
>
> 4) The half-attempt to include 'chivalrous combat' is a pain - if my opponent is stunned,
> turns their back, etc. then I need to take my Warrior bonuses to IV, SC, Dam,... off again.
> Changing and recalculating numbers mid-combat just slows things down.  And it is not common
> sense.
>
> 5) It's just a bunch of numbers, not much pizazz.  This one doesn't bother me so much as
> combat is all about the numbers, but some extra pizazz is always nice.
>
>
> Proposed Solution (first working draft)...
>
> * Warrior is defined as a skill encompassing several 'schools' of advanced weapons and combat
> training.  The schools vary in their style and in which weapon categories and special
> abilities they can teach.
>
> NB The 'schools' are implemented at campaign level and affect what you can learn, the net game
> effect is defined by this skill.
>
> * Assassin teaches a school of fighting that does not stack with Warrior schools.  The
> benefits of Warrior OR Assassin (not both) may be applied to any specific attack or defence.
>
> E.g. Rk5War/Rk5Ass attacks facing opponent and chooses to apply War benefits (+5%/+1Dam), next
> action the opponent has turned to flee so they chose to apply their Ass benefit (+5 dam).
>
> In campaign, some Warrior Schools will not teach Assassins, some probably won't even teach
> Warriors of other schools, and others will or maybe won't check too rigorously.  But this is
> all resolved at a campaign and character level where philosophies and beliefs should be
> applied.
>
> * Warriors may only apply their weapon based abilities to weapons from categories they have
> gained.  They gain 1 category at Rk 0 and 1 per rank.  May instead choose to specialise in a
> category to be effectively 1 rank higher in that cat (capped at max rk 10).  A Warrior can
> pick up additional categories at 5,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).
> A Warrior must have at least 4 ranks in weapons in a category before they may acquire it.
>
> * Warrior Weapon Benefits (applies to weapons in categories they have attained)
> ** 2% + 2% per rank to SC (double current bonus)
> ** +1 damage at ranks 5 & 10 (unchanged)
> ** +1 Parry at ranks 4 & 8 (unchanged)
> ** +1 Engaged IV per rank (unchanged)
> ** May use other weapons in Category at half the rank of the best weapon in category
> (unchanged)
> ** May train in weapons in category without a trainer... (unchanged)
> ** May act as merchant at half their rank wrt weapons (unchanged)
>
> * Warrior Defensive Benefits
> ** 2% + 2% per rank to melee defence (simplified, but similar level to current)
>
> * Warrior Special Abilities - some are general combat abilities and only need to be learned
> once, others are weapon specific and must be learned once per weapon.  A warrior gains one
> special ability at ranks 5-7, 2 at rank 8, 3 at 9, 4 at 10.  Additional abilities may be
> learned for 8,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).  A Warrior must be at max rank in a weapon
> before they may learn a special ability with a weapon.
>
> ** Pre-Engage (General) - may choose to act on their Engaged IV provided they are within half
> Warrior rank hexes of an engagement they are joining or interacting with.
>
> ** Advanced Charge (Weapon) - may move an additional 2 TMR before executing an attack, or +1
> TMR before a Special Attack.
>
> ** True Riposte (Weapon) - may attempt to Parry/Riposte any attack that misses by more than
> 30% even if not evading, or gains +2 on the Parry Calculation if evading.
>
> ** Strong Guard (Weapon) - add 2 to effective weapon rank when defending against a
> Parry/Riposte.  And may add Warrior Rank to chance of resisting a Disarm.
>
> ** Precision (Weapon) - may modify a roll on the Spec. Grev. table by up to half Warrior Rank.
>
> ** Draw and Strike (Weapon) - may prepare a weapon and strike as a Special Attack.
>
> ** Overstrike (Weapon) - may apply damage bonuses for both skill and strength as a Special
> Attack.
>
> ** Off-hand (Weapon) - special training in using the weapon in either hand, treated as
> ambidextrous when using this weapon.
>
>
>
> I'm sure we could come up with a few more standard abilities.  And it's a structure that GMs
> can easily add more, more powerful, or more advanced versions of abilities as adventure
> awards.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Thanks for the rationale, Stephen

simple calrification on one point please,

> ** Advanced Charge (Weapon) - may move an additional 2 TMR
> before executing an attack, or +1
> TMR before a Special Attack.
is this only for charge attacks? ie more than 1/2TMR?
or does it also count for Step and Attack? which would be Advanced Step, but it is these little things...

I like the new proposal by the way.

Ian

--- On Fri, 30/7/10, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:

> From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net>
> Subject: [dq] Warrior Skill
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Date: Friday, 30 July, 2010, 4:07 PM
> Someone asked about the original aims
> of Warrior, I believe that like most things there were
> several agendas involved, but the main motivation was a
> toe-to-toe fighting skill for the
> fighter types who didn't want to be assassins.  It was
> intentionally costly in time (weapon
> rank dependencies) and experience to discourage mages and
> mage-fighters from dabbling in it.
> 
> 
> Issues with Warrior...
> 
> 1) Defence depending on opponents weapon - nice idea, a
> pain at run time.  Varying your
> defence depending on what the opponent is using just slows
> down combat which detracts from the
> overall fun.
> 
> 2) The Warrior Weapon Rank dependency tree - again nice
> idea, too complicated, confuses some
> people.  Leads to mistakes in ranking or it just being
> ignored.
> 
> 3) Defence Bonus (2/rk) is greater than Attack Bonus (1/Rk)
> - more Def than SC makes combats
> take longer, more frustrating misses for players and
> GMs.  More SC over Def makes for faster,
> bloodier combats.
> 
> 4) The half-attempt to include 'chivalrous combat' is a
> pain - if my opponent is stunned,
> turns their back, etc. then I need to take my Warrior
> bonuses to IV, SC, Dam,... off again.
> Changing and recalculating numbers mid-combat just slows
> things down.  And it is not common
> sense.
> 
> 5) It's just a bunch of numbers, not much pizazz. 
> This one doesn't bother me so much as
> combat is all about the numbers, but some extra pizazz is
> always nice.
> 
> 
> Proposed Solution (first working draft)...
> 
> * Warrior is defined as a skill encompassing several
> 'schools' of advanced weapons and combat
> training.  The schools vary in their style and in
> which weapon categories and special
> abilities they can teach.
> 
> NB The 'schools' are implemented at campaign level and
> affect what you can learn, the net game
> effect is defined by this skill.
> 
> * Assassin teaches a school of fighting that does not stack
> with Warrior schools.  The
> benefits of Warrior OR Assassin (not both) may be applied
> to any specific attack or defence.
> 
> E.g. Rk5War/Rk5Ass attacks facing opponent and chooses to
> apply War benefits (+5%/+1Dam), next
> action the opponent has turned to flee so they chose to
> apply their Ass benefit (+5 dam).
> 
> In campaign, some Warrior Schools will not teach Assassins,
> some probably won't even teach
> Warriors of other schools, and others will or maybe won't
> check too rigorously.  But this is
> all resolved at a campaign and character level where
> philosophies and beliefs should be
> applied.
> 
> * Warriors may only apply their weapon based abilities to
> weapons from categories they have
> gained.  They gain 1 category at Rk 0 and 1 per
> rank.  May instead choose to specialise in a
> category to be effectively 1 rank higher in that cat
> (capped at max rk 10).  A Warrior can
> pick up additional categories at 5,000xp + 8 weeks (halved
> for masters).
> A Warrior must have at least 4 ranks in weapons in a
> category before they may acquire it.
> 
> * Warrior Weapon Benefits (applies to weapons in categories
> they have attained)
> ** 2% + 2% per rank to SC (double current bonus)
> ** +1 damage at ranks 5 & 10 (unchanged)
> ** +1 Parry at ranks 4 & 8 (unchanged)
> ** +1 Engaged IV per rank (unchanged)
> ** May use other weapons in Category at half the rank of
> the best weapon in category (unchanged)
> ** May train in weapons in category without a trainer...
> (unchanged)
> ** May act as merchant at half their rank wrt weapons
> (unchanged)
> 
> * Warrior Defensive Benefits
> ** 2% + 2% per rank to melee defence (simplified, but
> similar level to current)
> 
> * Warrior Special Abilities - some are general combat
> abilities and only need to be learned
> once, others are weapon specific and must be learned once
> per weapon.  A warrior gains one
> special ability at ranks 5-7, 2 at rank 8, 3 at 9, 4 at
> 10.  Additional abilities may be
> learned for 8,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).  A
> Warrior must be at max rank in a weapon
> before they may learn a special ability with a weapon.
> 
> ** Pre-Engage (General) - may choose to act on their
> Engaged IV provided they are within half
> Warrior rank hexes of an engagement they are joining or
> interacting with.
> 
> ** Advanced Charge (Weapon) - may move an additional 2 TMR
> before executing an attack, or +1
> TMR before a Special Attack.
> 
> ** True Riposte (Weapon) - may attempt to Parry/Riposte any
> attack that misses by more than
> 30% even if not evading, or gains +2 on the Parry
> Calculation if evading.
> 
> ** Strong Guard (Weapon) - add 2 to effective weapon rank
> when defending against a
> Parry/Riposte.  And may add Warrior Rank to chance of
> resisting a Disarm.
> 
> ** Precision (Weapon) - may modify a roll on the Spec.
> Grev. table by up to half Warrior Rank.
> 
> ** Draw and Strike (Weapon) - may prepare a weapon and
> strike as a Special Attack.
> 
> ** Overstrike (Weapon) - may apply damage bonuses for both
> skill and strength as a Special
> Attack.
> 
> ** Off-hand (Weapon) - special training in using the weapon
> in either hand, treated as
> ambidextrous when using this weapon.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure we could come up with a few more standard
> abilities.  And it's a structure that GMs
> can easily add more, more powerful, or more advanced
> versions of abilities as adventure
> awards.
> 
> Cheers, Stephen.
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz
> --
>


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Like it - fixes the crappy bits and adds some pizza

Also like that it is explicitly open to high plus characters finding cool
new abilities.

H
 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 4:07 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Warrior Skill

Someone asked about the original aims of Warrior, I believe that like most
things there were
several agendas involved, but the main motivation was a toe-to-toe fighting
skill for the
fighter types who didn't want to be assassins.  It was intentionally costly
in time (weapon
rank dependencies) and experience to discourage mages and mage-fighters from
dabbling in it.


Issues with Warrior...

1) Defence depending on opponents weapon - nice idea, a pain at run time.
Varying your
defence depending on what the opponent is using just slows down combat which
detracts from the
overall fun.

2) The Warrior Weapon Rank dependency tree - again nice idea, too
complicated, confuses some
people.  Leads to mistakes in ranking or it just being ignored.

3) Defence Bonus (2/rk) is greater than Attack Bonus (1/Rk) - more Def than
SC makes combats
take longer, more frustrating misses for players and GMs.  More SC over Def
makes for faster,
bloodier combats.

4) The half-attempt to include 'chivalrous combat' is a pain - if my
opponent is stunned,
turns their back, etc. then I need to take my Warrior bonuses to IV, SC,
Dam,... off again. 
Changing and recalculating numbers mid-combat just slows things down.  And
it is not common
sense.

5) It's just a bunch of numbers, not much pizazz.  This one doesn't bother
me so much as
combat is all about the numbers, but some extra pizazz is always nice.


Proposed Solution (first working draft)...

* Warrior is defined as a skill encompassing several 'schools' of advanced
weapons and combat
training.  The schools vary in their style and in which weapon categories
and special
abilities they can teach.

NB The 'schools' are implemented at campaign level and affect what you can
learn, the net game
effect is defined by this skill.

* Assassin teaches a school of fighting that does not stack with Warrior
schools.  The
benefits of Warrior OR Assassin (not both) may be applied to any specific
attack or defence.

E.g. Rk5War/Rk5Ass attacks facing opponent and chooses to apply War benefits
(+5%/+1Dam), next
action the opponent has turned to flee so they chose to apply their Ass
benefit (+5 dam).

In campaign, some Warrior Schools will not teach Assassins, some probably
won't even teach
Warriors of other schools, and others will or maybe won't check too
rigorously.  But this is
all resolved at a campaign and character level where philosophies and
beliefs should be
applied.

* Warriors may only apply their weapon based abilities to weapons from
categories they have
gained.  They gain 1 category at Rk 0 and 1 per rank.  May instead choose to
specialise in a
category to be effectively 1 rank higher in that cat (capped at max rk 10).
A Warrior can
pick up additional categories at 5,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).
A Warrior must have at least 4 ranks in weapons in a category before they
may acquire it.

* Warrior Weapon Benefits (applies to weapons in categories they have
attained)
** 2% + 2% per rank to SC (double current bonus)
** +1 damage at ranks 5 & 10 (unchanged)
** +1 Parry at ranks 4 & 8 (unchanged)
** +1 Engaged IV per rank (unchanged)
** May use other weapons in Category at half the rank of the best weapon in
category (unchanged)
** May train in weapons in category without a trainer... (unchanged)
** May act as merchant at half their rank wrt weapons (unchanged)

* Warrior Defensive Benefits
** 2% + 2% per rank to melee defence (simplified, but similar level to
current)

* Warrior Special Abilities - some are general combat abilities and only
need to be learned
once, others are weapon specific and must be learned once per weapon.  A
warrior gains one
special ability at ranks 5-7, 2 at rank 8, 3 at 9, 4 at 10.  Additional
abilities may be
learned for 8,000xp + 8 weeks (halved for masters).  A Warrior must be at
max rank in a weapon
before they may learn a special ability with a weapon.

** Pre-Engage (General) - may choose to act on their Engaged IV provided
they are within half
Warrior rank hexes of an engagement they are joining or interacting with.

** Advanced Charge (Weapon) - may move an additional 2 TMR before executing
an attack, or +1
TMR before a Special Attack.

** True Riposte (Weapon) - may attempt to Parry/Riposte any attack that
misses by more than
30% even if not evading, or gains +2 on the Parry Calculation if evading.

** Strong Guard (Weapon) - add 2 to effective weapon rank when defending
against a
Parry/Riposte.  And may add Warrior Rank to chance of resisting a Disarm.

** Precision (Weapon) - may modify a roll on the Spec. Grev. table by up to
half Warrior Rank.

** Draw and Strike (Weapon) - may prepare a weapon and strike as a Special
Attack.

** Overstrike (Weapon) - may apply damage bonuses for both skill and
strength as a Special
Attack.

** Off-hand (Weapon) - special training in using the weapon in either hand,
treated as
ambidextrous when using this weapon.



I'm sure we could come up with a few more standard abilities.  And it's a
structure that GMs
can easily add more, more powerful, or more advanced versions of abilities
as adventure
awards.

Cheers, Stephen.


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I should have said +2 TMR before Step & Attack or Charge.
To be explicitly clear, my intention is...

Without this ability:
On a Step & Attack anyone can move 1 hex and change facing before attacking, 22-25AG can move 2.
A charge with a non-pole weapon is half TMR before attacking and -15%
A charge with a pole weapon (or shield) is up to full TMR before attacking and +20%
Special Attacks (Multi-Hex Strike, Multiple Strike, Trip, Disarm, KO) may not be combined with
movement

With this ability:
Step & Attack 3 hexes then attack (or 4 hexes for high AG)
Charge with non-pole (TMR / 2) + 2 then att at -15%
Charge with Pole/Shld TMR + 2 then att.
Special Attacks 1 hex then Multi-hex, etc.


The idea is to add to the Warriors mobility in combat, helping them get to the fight faster.
Even the 3TMR plated Dwarven Warrior gets an extra spring in their step when that hex grid forms.

Cheers, Stephen.

On Fri, July 30, 2010 4:33 pm, Ian Wood wrote:
> simple calrification on one point please,
>
>> ** Advanced Charge (Weapon) - may move an additional 2 TMR
>> before executing an attack, or +1
>> TMR before a Special Attack.
> is this only for charge attacks? ie more than 1/2TMR?
> or does it also count for Step and Attack? which would be Advanced Step, but it is these
> little things...
>
> I like the new proposal by the way.
>
> Ian


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I STRONGLY dislike the specialisation suggestion as it stands, as it makes
the skill much more mage-friendly, and doesn't encourage this skill to be
mainly taken by melee-oriented non-mages or sub-mages. Example: mage with
glaive, gets rank 5 warrior based on ranking glaive only, gains bonuses as
if Rank 10 warrior, and usually doesn't need to change weapon. Perhaps I
have misunderstood, but this appears to shift the skill into a must-have
cheap and easy bonus for any second-rank, third-rate mage who fights
occasionally.


Primary weapon to Rank 7, with +10 strike chance
Old Skill: 66,000 ep, 348 weeks. Two master feats
New Skill:  6,600 ep, 68 weeks.

Primary weapon to Rank 7, with +18 defence
Old Skill: 55,000 ep, 339 weeks. One master feat
New Skill: 11,000 ep, 75 weeks.

This discrepancy of "value" is mainly due to specialisation. An ep and time
reduction of FIVE or TEN times is an inappropriate change that will make
this skill a "must have", particularly as the warrior part is a small
proportion of this cost/time - ranking the weapon is most of it.

------------------

On a more technical note, there is an oddity with Stephen's movement bonus
suggestion.
His Warrior-Charge-with-Pole is *faster* than Move. Maybe this is OK, but I
dislike it. Maybe we allow charge w. poleweapon when there is no enemy at
the other end. I dislike this, as I'd prefer to keep movement =< TMR. Maybe
we just allow warriors to increase TMR by +1 instead. Or only apply the TMR
bonus to Step+Attack, and Charge-with-Non-Pole. Charge-with-Pole is already
very effective for moving around the grid (being twice speed and +35% to hit
over normal charge).

The simplifications on the numbers are also a slight boost, but *if* the
skill didn't become much easier to get and more attractive because of funky
abilities, this would be OK. 


Regards

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, 30 July 2010 5:25 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill

I should have said +2 TMR before Step & Attack or Charge.
To be explicitly clear, my intention is...

Without this ability:
On a Step & Attack anyone can move 1 hex and change facing before attacking,
22-25AG can move 2.
A charge with a non-pole weapon is half TMR before attacking and -15%
A charge with a pole weapon (or shield) is up to full TMR before attacking
and +20%
Special Attacks (Multi-Hex Strike, Multiple Strike, Trip, Disarm, KO) may
not be combined with
movement

With this ability:
Step & Attack 3 hexes then attack (or 4 hexes for high AG)
Charge with non-pole (TMR / 2) + 2 then att at -15%
Charge with Pole/Shld TMR + 2 then att.
Special Attacks 1 hex then Multi-hex, etc.


The idea is to add to the Warriors mobility in combat, helping them get to
the fight faster.
Even the 3TMR plated Dwarven Warrior gets an extra spring in their step when
that hex grid forms.

Cheers, Stephen.


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--001485e76ff6246978048c988f12
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I agree with Andrew about the increase to TMR, it creates other problems and
is kind of dumb.
I would prefer to have the ENC penalties for armour reduced, which will tend
to favour high PROT fighters over high AG fighters.

On 30 July 2010 22:42, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> I STRONGLY dislike the specialisation suggestion as it stands, as it makes
> the skill much more mage-friendly, and doesn't encourage this skill to be
> mainly taken by melee-oriented non-mages or sub-mages. Example: mage with
> glaive, gets rank 5 warrior based on ranking glaive only, gains bonuses as
> if Rank 10 warrior, and usually doesn't need to change weapon. Perhaps I
> have misunderstood, but this appears to shift the skill into a must-have
> cheap and easy bonus for any second-rank, third-rate mage who fights
> occasionally.
>
>
> Primary weapon to Rank 7, with +10 strike chance
> Old Skill: 66,000 ep, 348 weeks. Two master feats
> New Skill:  6,600 ep, 68 weeks.
>
> Primary weapon to Rank 7, with +18 defence
> Old Skill: 55,000 ep, 339 weeks. One master feat
> New Skill: 11,000 ep, 75 weeks.
>
> This discrepancy of "value" is mainly due to specialisation. An ep and time
> reduction of FIVE or TEN times is an inappropriate change that will make
> this skill a "must have", particularly as the warrior part is a small
> proportion of this cost/time - ranking the weapon is most of it.
>
> ------------------
>
> On a more technical note, there is an oddity with Stephen's movement bonus
> suggestion.
> His Warrior-Charge-with-Pole is *faster* than Move. Maybe this is OK, but I
> dislike it. Maybe we allow charge w. poleweapon when there is no enemy at
> the other end. I dislike this, as I'd prefer to keep movement =< TMR. Maybe
> we just allow warriors to increase TMR by +1 instead. Or only apply the TMR
> bonus to Step+Attack, and Charge-with-Non-Pole. Charge-with-Pole is already
> very effective for moving around the grid (being twice speed and +35% to
> hit
> over normal charge).
>
> The simplifications on the numbers are also a slight boost, but *if* the
> skill didn't become much easier to get and more attractive because of funky
> abilities, this would be OK.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Martin
> Sent: Friday, 30 July 2010 5:25 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
>  Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill
>
> I should have said +2 TMR before Step & Attack or Charge.
> To be explicitly clear, my intention is...
>
> Without this ability:
> On a Step & Attack anyone can move 1 hex and change facing before
> attacking,
> 22-25AG can move 2.
> A charge with a non-pole weapon is half TMR before attacking and -15%
> A charge with a pole weapon (or shield) is up to full TMR before attacking
> and +20%
> Special Attacks (Multi-Hex Strike, Multiple Strike, Trip, Disarm, KO) may
> not be combined with
> movement
>
> With this ability:
> Step & Attack 3 hexes then attack (or 4 hexes for high AG)
> Charge with non-pole (TMR / 2) + 2 then att at -15%
> Charge with Pole/Shld TMR + 2 then att.
> Special Attacks 1 hex then Multi-hex, etc.
>
>
> The idea is to add to the Warriors mobility in combat, helping them get to
> the fight faster.
> Even the 3TMR plated Dwarven Warrior gets an extra spring in their step
> when
> that hex grid forms.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
>
>  -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>

--001485e76ff6246978048c988f12
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I agree with Andrew about the increase to=
 TMR, it creates other problems and is kind of dumb.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">I would prefer to have the ENC penalties =
for armour reduced, which will tend to favour high PROT fighters over high =
AG fighters.<br></font><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 30 July 2010 22:42, Andrew Withy <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">awithy@ihug.co.nz</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">I STRONGLY dislike the specialis=
ation suggestion as it stands, as it makes<br>the skill much more mage-frie=
ndly, and doesn&#39;t encourage this skill to be<br>
mainly taken by melee-oriented non-mages or sub-mages. Example: mage with<b=
r>glaive, gets rank 5 warrior based on ranking glaive only, gains bonuses a=
s<br>if Rank 10 warrior, and usually doesn&#39;t need to change weapon. Per=
haps I<br>
have misunderstood, but this appears to shift the skill into a must-have<br=
>cheap and easy bonus for any second-rank, third-rate mage who fights<br>oc=
casionally.<br><br><br>Primary weapon to Rank 7, with +10 strike chance<br>
Old Skill: 66,000 ep, 348 weeks. Two master feats<br>New Skill: =A06,600 ep=
, 68 weeks.<br><br>Primary weapon to Rank 7, with +18 defence<br>Old Skill:=
 55,000 ep, 339 weeks. One master feat<br>New Skill: 11,000 ep, 75 weeks.<b=
r>
<br>This discrepancy of &quot;value&quot; is mainly due to specialisation. =
An ep and time<br>reduction of FIVE or TEN times is an inappropriate change=
 that will make<br>this skill a &quot;must have&quot;, particularly as the =
warrior part is a small<br>
proportion of this cost/time - ranking the weapon is most of it.<br><br>---=
---------------<br><br>On a more technical note, there is an oddity with St=
ephen&#39;s movement bonus<br>suggestion.<br>His Warrior-Charge-with-Pole i=
s *faster* than Move. Maybe this is OK, but I<br>
dislike it. Maybe we allow charge w. poleweapon when there is no enemy at<b=
r>the other end. I dislike this, as I&#39;d prefer to keep movement =3D&lt;=
 TMR. Maybe<br>we just allow warriors to increase TMR by +1 instead. Or onl=
y apply the TMR<br>
bonus to Step+Attack, and Charge-with-Non-Pole. Charge-with-Pole is already=
<br>very effective for moving around the grid (being twice speed and +35% t=
o hit<br>over normal charge).<br><br>The simplifications on the numbers are=
 also a slight boost, but *if* the<br>
skill didn&#39;t become much easier to get and more attractive because of f=
unky<br>abilities, this would be OK.<br><br><br>Regards<br><font color=3D"#=
888888"><br>Andrew<br></font>
<div class=3D"im"><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto=
:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] On Behalf Of<br>Stephen =
Martin<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"im">Sent: Friday, 30 July 2010 5:25 p.m.<br>To: <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br></div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill<br><br>I should have said=
 +2 TMR before Step &amp; Attack or Charge.<br>To be explicitly clear, my i=
ntention is...<br><br>Without this ability:<br>On a Step &amp; Attack anyon=
e can move 1 hex and change facing before attacking,<br>
22-25AG can move 2.<br>A charge with a non-pole weapon is half TMR before a=
ttacking and -15%<br>A charge with a pole weapon (or shield) is up to full =
TMR before attacking<br>and +20%<br>Special Attacks (Multi-Hex Strike, Mult=
iple Strike, Trip, Disarm, KO) may<br>
not be combined with<br>movement<br><br>With this ability:<br>Step &amp; At=
tack 3 hexes then attack (or 4 hexes for high AG)<br>Charge with non-pole (=
TMR / 2) + 2 then att at -15%<br>Charge with Pole/Shld TMR + 2 then att.<br=
>
Special Attacks 1 hex then Multi-hex, etc.<br><br><br>The idea is to add to=
 the Warriors mobility in combat, helping them get to<br>the fight faster.<=
br>Even the 3TMR plated Dwarven Warrior gets an extra spring in their step =
when<br>
that hex grid forms.<br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br><br><br></div></div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-requ=
est@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br></div></div></blockquot=
e></div><br>

--001485e76ff6246978048c988f12--


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Fair points.  I hadn't really thought through the Specialisation, was trying to create an
alternative avenue for those that didn't want to train in dozens of weapons they would never
use and had no interest in.
I withdraw the Specialisation in a Weapon Category option.

One thought.. should picking up a new category at each rank be optional or required?
If it is required it means the Warrior needs to acquire 4 weapon ranks in the new cat before
their next warrior rank (still easier to achieve than current strictures).  And all high level
Warrior will have skill in a wide range of weapon types.
If optional the one-weapon specialist can improve their one weapon gain warrior benefits and
abilities with it, etc.  May still be too cheap and easy to get good with the one presumably
already premium (H&1/2, Glaive, Battle Axe) weapon.
But then is there any point in forcing people to spend time & xp on weapon ranks they'll never
use and don't want?


Re the Movement Ability: Keeping the extra movement with a Step & Attack and with Special
Attack.  Agree Charge with Poles doesn't really need more.  How about the non-pole charge goes
up to full TMR (but still with the SC% penalty).

btw Thank you for the well thought out feedback.

Cheers, Stephen.

On Fri, July 30, 2010 10:42 pm, Andrew Withy wrote:
> I STRONGLY dislike the specialisation suggestion as it stands, as it makes
> the skill much more mage-friendly, and doesn't encourage this skill to be
> mainly taken by melee-oriented non-mages or sub-mages. Example: mage with
> glaive, gets rank 5 warrior based on ranking glaive only, gains bonuses as
> if Rank 10 warrior, and usually doesn't need to change weapon. Perhaps I
> have misunderstood, but this appears to shift the skill into a must-have
> cheap and easy bonus for any second-rank, third-rate mage who fights
> occasionally.
>
>
> Primary weapon to Rank 7, with +10 strike chance
> Old Skill: 66,000 ep, 348 weeks. Two master feats
> New Skill:  6,600 ep, 68 weeks.
>
> Primary weapon to Rank 7, with +18 defence
> Old Skill: 55,000 ep, 339 weeks. One master feat
> New Skill: 11,000 ep, 75 weeks.
>
> This discrepancy of "value" is mainly due to specialisation. An ep and time
> reduction of FIVE or TEN times is an inappropriate change that will make
> this skill a "must have", particularly as the warrior part is a small
> proportion of this cost/time - ranking the weapon is most of it.
>
> ------------------
>
> On a more technical note, there is an oddity with Stephen's movement bonus
> suggestion.
> His Warrior-Charge-with-Pole is *faster* than Move. Maybe this is OK, but I
> dislike it. Maybe we allow charge w. poleweapon when there is no enemy at
> the other end. I dislike this, as I'd prefer to keep movement =< TMR. Maybe
> we just allow warriors to increase TMR by +1 instead. Or only apply the TMR
> bonus to Step+Attack, and Charge-with-Non-Pole. Charge-with-Pole is already
> very effective for moving around the grid (being twice speed and +35% to hit
> over normal charge).
>
> The simplifications on the numbers are also a slight boost, but *if* the
> skill didn't become much easier to get and more attractive because of funky
> abilities, this would be OK.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Andrew


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