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On 5 August 2010 20:27, Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote
>
> On another track, I'm still not convinced we need these sub-skills


Umm at the moment we have a system that Klaude described as pointy sticks
with damaged attached.

For whatever reason the melee special moves are seldom used (like disarm or
trip). DQ melee combat are slow and not very interesting.

Anything that goes any way to trying to address this is a good thing.

You could alternately, simply gut the current melee combat system. Aim at
making it faster and easier might also address this issue of it being slow
and not being very interesting. That might also work.

-- 
Kind regards,

Jonathan Bean
H: +64 9 828 2959
M: +64 21 917 173
G: jonobean@gmail.com

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 5 August 2010 20:27, Andrew Withy <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:awithy@ihug.co.nz">awithy@ihug.co.nz</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
On another track, I&#39;m still not convinced we need these sub-skills</blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div>Umm at the moment we have a system that Klaude =
described as pointy sticks with damaged attached.=A0</div><div><br></div>
<div>For whatever reason the melee special moves are seldom used (like disa=
rm or trip). DQ melee combat are slow and not very interesting.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Anything that goes any way to trying to address this is a goo=
d thing.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>You could=A0alternately,=A0simply gut the current melee=
 combat system. Aim at making it faster and easier might also address this =
issue of it being slow and not being very interesting. That might also work=
.</div>
<div><br></div></div>-- <br>Kind regards,<br><br>Jonathan Bean<br>H: +64 9 =
828 2959<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">j=
onobean@gmail.com</a><br>

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On Wed, August 4, 2010 4:02 pm, Andrew Withy wrote:
>
> I'd add bows/slings/crossbows and thrown as two extra warrior categories.
>
> Andrew


My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies to your use of the weapon regardless
of the range you use it at.

For example, under the current version of Warrior, at rk5 your +6% SC & +1 Dam applies when
you use you dagger against an engaged opponent, but if you close or throw it at someone then
you don't get the bonus.
Under Warrior 3.0 you get the +12/+1 bonus whether it is used in Engaged, Close, or Thrown.

This is all good for Daggers, Hand Axes, Spears, Javelins, and a few others.  But there are
several weapons that do not have a Warrior Category.

For Bows (Self, Short, Long, Comp, GiantBow) there is Kyujutsu which we could potentially
main-stream as 'Archer' or similar.
Or we let them be covered by Warrior (gaining SC & Damage bonuses and not much else), with the
option of later acquiring Kyujutsu which doesn't stack with Warrior.

Giant Weapons are not in Categories - I think they should be added to the same categories as
their smaller versions (e.g. Giant Mace is part of Blunt, the same as Mace).

Whip and Lasso could go into Entangling
Garotte probably should too.

Sap, Crude Club, and Rock could go into Blunt.

This leaves the Purely Thrown Weapons:
Bola (Entangling?)
Boomerang (Blunt?)
Grenado (Blunt? similar to throwing Rocks)
Dart (Short Swords? to go with Daggers)

And the other missile weapons which we could lump together though rank in Spear Thrower giving
you half rank in Blowgun seems wrong:
Blowgun
Sling
Spear Thrower
Crossbow / Heavy Crossbow


Another option is that we continue to have Weapons that do not belong to Warrior Categories,
but a Warrior may apply their benefits to them if they have ranked them.
There are no warrior schools that stoop to teaching Crude Club, but when a Master Warrior who
has ranked Crude Club hits you with a chair, it's going to hurt more than when the town bully
hits you with it.


At the moment, I'm leaning towards this last option.  It's simple and I think it makes more
sense than trying to force weapons into a Category they don't really fit.

Cheers, Stephen.


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I have been considering PC retirement lately and have decided that a good
solution would be to replace old very high and especially extreme characters
with two medium ones.
 with something like 200K xp to throw about.

Advantages.

1. PCs whose very existence warps and distorts the game are removed from
active play. As 'retirees' they are now too busy, involved or away to
distort the nature of the universe.
2. Players get new characters to play with and try something new.
3. These new characters skip the often tedious trawl through incompetence
that can last up to a year or three.
4. It will bring a sense of closure to high level characters.
5. The new characters will advance slower since there are now two of them.
6. The new characters are more game friendly since they are not reality
warping demigods
7. The campaign can operate at a lower tempo since there are not reality
warping demigods to oppose. More conceivable threats can be used.
8. Since campaign events will now be focused to a lower level more players
will be able to interact with the
9. While I am sure someone can number crunch some bad-ass 'build' with 200K
xp. But I don't care. They're no longer a reality warping demigod that kills
dragons as a warm-up exercise.

Discuss!

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I have been considering PC retirement lately and have decided that a good s=
olution would be to replace old very high and especially extreme characters=
 with two medium ones.<div>=A0with something like 200K xp to throw about.</=
div>
<div><br></div><div>Advantages.</div><div><br></div><div>1. PCs whose very =
existence warps and distorts the game are removed from active play. As &#39=
;retirees&#39; they are now too busy, involved or away to distort the natur=
e of the universe.</div>
<div>2. Players get new characters to play with and try something new.=A0</=
div><div>3. These new characters skip the often tedious trawl through incom=
petence that can last up to a year or three.=A0</div><div>4. It will bring =
a sense of closure to high level characters.</div>
<div>5. The new characters will advance slower since there are now two of t=
hem.</div><div>6. The new characters are more game friendly since they are =
not reality warping demigods</div><div>7. The campaign can operate at a low=
er tempo since there are not reality warping demigods to oppose. More conce=
ivable threats can be used.</div>
<div>8. Since campaign events will now be focused to a lower level more pla=
yers will be able to interact with the</div><div>9. While I am sure someone=
 can number crunch some bad-ass &#39;build&#39; with 200K xp. But I don&#39=
;t care. They&#39;re no longer a reality warping demigod that kills dragons=
 as a warm-up exercise.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Discuss!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></=
div>

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I don't have anything of this level but it sounds like a reasonable
proposal. Wishes and magic items fade away and if for no other reason it
would accomplish the removal of uberness from the game.

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:42 PM, William Dymock-Johnson <
dymockjohnsonwilliam@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been considering PC retirement lately and have decided that a good
> solution would be to replace old very high and especially extreme characters
> with two medium ones.
>  with something like 200K xp to throw about.
>
> Advantages.
>
> 1. PCs whose very existence warps and distorts the game are removed from
> active play. As 'retirees' they are now too busy, involved or away to
> distort the nature of the universe.
> 2. Players get new characters to play with and try something new.
> 3. These new characters skip the often tedious trawl through incompetence
> that can last up to a year or three.
> 4. It will bring a sense of closure to high level characters.
> 5. The new characters will advance slower since there are now two of them.
> 6. The new characters are more game friendly since they are not reality
> warping demigods
> 7. The campaign can operate at a lower tempo since there are not reality
> warping demigods to oppose. More conceivable threats can be used.
> 8. Since campaign events will now be focused to a lower level more players
> will be able to interact with the
> 9. While I am sure someone can number crunch some bad-ass 'build' with 200K
> xp. But I don't care. They're no longer a reality warping demigod that kills
> dragons as a warm-up exercise.
>
> Discuss!
>
>
>
>

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I don&#39;t have anything of this level but it sounds like a reasonable pro=
posal. Wishes and magic items fade away and if for no other reason it would=
 accomplish the removal of uberness from the game.<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:42 PM, William Dymock-J=
ohnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dymockjohnsonwilliam@gmail.c=
om">dymockjohnsonwilliam@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">I have been considering PC retir=
ement lately and have decided that a good solution would be to replace old =
very high and especially extreme characters with two medium ones.=20
<div>=A0with something like 200K xp to throw about.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Advantages.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>1. PCs whose very existence warps and distorts the game are removed fr=
om active play. As &#39;retirees&#39; they are now too busy, involved or aw=
ay to distort the nature of the universe.</div>
<div>2. Players get new characters to play with and try something new.=A0</=
div>
<div>3. These new characters skip the often tedious trawl through incompete=
nce that can last up to a year or three.=A0</div>
<div>4. It will bring a sense of closure to high level characters.</div>
<div>5. The new characters will advance slower since there are now two of t=
hem.</div>
<div>6. The new characters are more game friendly since they are not realit=
y warping demigods</div>
<div>7. The campaign can operate at a lower tempo since there are not reali=
ty warping demigods to oppose. More conceivable threats can be used.</div>
<div>8. Since campaign events will now be focused to a lower level more pla=
yers will be able to interact with the</div>
<div>9. While I am sure someone can number crunch some bad-ass &#39;build&#=
39; with 200K xp. But I don&#39;t care. They&#39;re no longer a reality war=
ping demigod that kills dragons as a warm-up exercise.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Discuss!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div></blockquote></div><br>

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Yes good idea.  I'm keen to retire GoK.

 

I would be happy with one medium level toon to play, and throw the rest
away.  I hate the low levels so quite happy to leap em.

 

The main thing really is getting rid of all the reality bending write ups
and special abilities and starting over.  How to transfer a proper greater
enchantment though, that's something to think about.

 

Hamish

 

 

 

  _____  

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
William Dymock-Johnson
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:43 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Two for the Price of One!

 

I have been considering PC retirement lately and have decided that a good
solution would be to replace old very high and especially extreme characters
with two medium ones.

 with something like 200K xp to throw about.

 

Advantages.

 

1. PCs whose very existence warps and distorts the game are removed from
active play. As 'retirees' they are now too busy, involved or away to
distort the nature of the universe.

2. Players get new characters to play with and try something new. 

3. These new characters skip the often tedious trawl through incompetence
that can last up to a year or three. 

4. It will bring a sense of closure to high level characters.

5. The new characters will advance slower since there are now two of them.

6. The new characters are more game friendly since they are not reality
warping demigods

7. The campaign can operate at a lower tempo since there are not reality
warping demigods to oppose. More conceivable threats can be used.

8. Since campaign events will now be focused to a lower level more players
will be able to interact with the

9. While I am sure someone can number crunch some bad-ass 'build' with 200K
xp. But I don't care. They're no longer a reality warping demigod that kills
dragons as a warm-up exercise.

 

Discuss!

 

 

 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Yes good idea.&nbsp; I&#8217;m keen =
to retire
GoK.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would be happy with one medium =
level toon
to play, and throw the rest away.&nbsp; I hate the low levels so quite =
happy to leap
em.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The main thing really is getting =
rid of
all the reality bending write ups and special abilities and starting =
over.&nbsp; How
to transfer a proper greater enchantment though, that&#8217;s something =
to
think about.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hamish<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>William Dymock-Johnson<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 06, =
2010 1:43
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [dq] Two for the =
Price of
One!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I have been considering PC retirement lately and have decided =
that a
good solution would be to replace old very high and especially extreme
characters with two medium ones.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;with something like 200K xp to throw =
about.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Advantages.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>1. PCs whose very existence warps and distorts the game are =
removed
from active play. As 'retirees' they are now too busy, involved or away =
to
distort the nature of the universe.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>2. Players get new characters to play with and try something =
new.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>3. These new characters skip the often tedious trawl through
incompetence that can last up to a year or =
three.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>4. It will bring a sense of closure to high level =
characters.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>5. The new characters will advance slower since there are now =
two of
them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>6. The new characters are more game friendly since they are not =
reality
warping demigods<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>7. The campaign can operate at a lower tempo since there are not
reality warping demigods to oppose. More conceivable threats can be =
used.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>8. Since campaign events will now be focused to a lower level =
more
players will be able to interact with the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>9. While I am sure someone can number crunch some bad-ass =
'build' with
200K xp. But I don't care. They're no longer a reality warping demigod =
that
kills dragons as a warm-up exercise.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Discuss!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
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A very good idea!

I would have thought that just creating one character would be enough actually.

How about this as another idea: Rather than creating a perfectly new
character with (say) 200k,
given another option of donating a lesser amount of EP to an EXISTING
character - as long as it is already not too high?

Or combine the two: either
- create a new character from scratch with 200k, or
- add EP to an existing character to bring it UP to 200k.

Cheers,
Neil.

On 6 August 2010 13:42, William Dymock-Johnson
<dymockjohnsonwilliam@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been considering PC retirement lately and have decided that a good
> solution would be to replace old very high and especially extreme characters
> with two medium ones.
>  with something like 200K xp to throw about.
> Advantages.
> 1. PCs whose very existence warps and distorts the game are removed from
> active play. As 'retirees' they are now too busy, involved or away to
> distort the nature of the universe.
> 2. Players get new characters to play with and try something new.
> 3. These new characters skip the often tedious trawl through incompetence
> that can last up to a year or three.
> 4. It will bring a sense of closure to high level characters.
> 5. The new characters will advance slower since there are now two of them.
> 6. The new characters are more game friendly since they are not reality
> warping demigods
> 7. The campaign can operate at a lower tempo since there are not reality
> warping demigods to oppose. More conceivable threats can be used.
> 8. Since campaign events will now be focused to a lower level more players
> will be able to interact with the
> 9. While I am sure someone can number crunch some bad-ass 'build' with 200K
> xp. But I don't care. They're no longer a reality warping demigod that kills
> dragons as a warm-up exercise.
> Discuss!
>
>
>


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I would like to (continue) to exclude Bows, etc... basically anything that
_doesn't_ have a range of M or C.  (RM is OK, as is RMC, etc but pure R just
doesn't work as well for an engaged based skill).

I do like the idea that warriors should gain bonuses with crude / brawling
weapons -- and have in past played that anything smallish picked up in a pub
brawl is a "rock" while anything bigish is a "crude club".

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:

>
> My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies to your use of
> the weapon regardless
> of the range you use it at.
>

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I would like to (continue) to exclude Bows, etc... basically anything that =
_doesn&#39;t_ have a range of M or C.=A0 (RM is OK, as is RMC, etc but pure=
 R just doesn&#39;t work as well for an engaged based skill).<br><br>I do l=
ike the idea that warriors should gain bonuses with crude / brawling weapon=
s -- and have in past played that anything smallish picked up in a pub braw=
l is a &quot;rock&quot; while anything bigish is a &quot;crude club&quot;.<=
br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Stephen Mar=
tin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@ak=
lnz.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padd=
ing-left: 1ex;">
<br>
My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies to your use of th=
e weapon regardless<br>
of the range you use it at.<br></blockquote></div>

--002354471d8cf8190f048d1ebc12--


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Too Uber to Play

Like your character? Want to keep playing it without being forced into retirement?

The be careful what you ask for, and GMs be careful what you give out.

Some characters have become world-warping-demi-gods that are hard for GMs to challenge, most
of the issues come about from items/abilities that break or are outside of the rules.
90% of the time these are things the character has asked for or chosen as treasure.

Perhaps consider these things when looking at adventure rewards:

Don't make your character invulnerable
If your character cannot be hit/hurt then the game loses some its tension and excitement. 
Good GMs try to provide that tension and excitement anyway which leads to an escalating arms
race.

Don't get the Irresistible Attack
Whether it's heinous physical damage, the irresistible spell, the resist AND die spell, the
inability to miss, or whatever, if your attack has no chance of failure then there's no point
in rolling the dice, no risk, less excitement, less sense of achievement.
PC: "I point my Doom Stick at it"  GM: "it dies"   PC: "yay?"

Don't do everything
A party forms to cover each other's weaknesses and deficiencies, if your character can do
everything, then why is it hanging out with a bunch of others it then has to share the loot
with.
Why would anyone adventure with your character knowing they can't contribute anything that you
can't do better.

Or do all of the above, but you have been warned, playing Superman is only fun for a little
while.

Cheers, Stephen.


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

I would like to see more ranged weapons in the game and for that reason I
would include them.

Basically after the low end of the game ranged never comes close to magic
for doing damage while staying out of the way.  That’s probably not going to
change.  But we don’t even see people trying to create characters that
specialise in bows.

Legolas was good with a bow in lord of the rings even made it look cool so
why not.  It would not be hard to create some special abilities specifically
for ranged.

I don’t see why the current bonuses to SC, IV, and DMG should not apply.
Although I agree that conceptually the reasons for them applying are
different for ranged characters as opposed to melee.  

Watch out for battle axe, great axe and giant axe though all ranged weapons
apparently.

Hamish

 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:58 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill - Weapon Categories

On Wed, August 4, 2010 4:02 pm, Andrew Withy wrote:
>
> I'd add bows/slings/crossbows and thrown as two extra warrior categories.
>
> Andrew


My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies to your use of the
weapon regardless
of the range you use it at.

For example, under the current version of Warrior, at rk5 your +6% SC & +1
Dam applies when
you use you dagger against an engaged opponent, but if you close or throw it
at someone then
you don't get the bonus.
Under Warrior 3.0 you get the +12/+1 bonus whether it is used in Engaged,
Close, or Thrown.

This is all good for Daggers, Hand Axes, Spears, Javelins, and a few others.
But there are
several weapons that do not have a Warrior Category.

For Bows (Self, Short, Long, Comp, GiantBow) there is Kyujutsu which we
could potentially
main-stream as 'Archer' or similar.
Or we let them be covered by Warrior (gaining SC & Damage bonuses and not
much else), with the
option of later acquiring Kyujutsu which doesn't stack with Warrior.

Giant Weapons are not in Categories - I think they should be added to the
same categories as
their smaller versions (e.g. Giant Mace is part of Blunt, the same as Mace).

Whip and Lasso could go into Entangling
Garotte probably should too.

Sap, Crude Club, and Rock could go into Blunt.

This leaves the Purely Thrown Weapons:
Bola (Entangling?)
Boomerang (Blunt?)
Grenado (Blunt? similar to throwing Rocks)
Dart (Short Swords? to go with Daggers)

And the other missile weapons which we could lump together though rank in
Spear Thrower giving
you half rank in Blowgun seems wrong:
Blowgun
Sling
Spear Thrower
Crossbow / Heavy Crossbow


Another option is that we continue to have Weapons that do not belong to
Warrior Categories,
but a Warrior may apply their benefits to them if they have ranked them.
There are no warrior schools that stoop to teaching Crude Club, but when a
Master Warrior who
has ranked Crude Club hits you with a chair, it's going to hurt more than
when the town bully
hits you with it.


At the moment, I'm leaning towards this last option.  It's simple and I
think it makes more
sense than trying to force weapons into a Category they don't really fit.

Cheers, Stephen.


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

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While I like the idea in principle doesn't this discriminate against new
players and actualy at some point in the future make it very hard for them
to find enough people for a game? I mean taken to its logical extreme in a
few years won't it mean no one has a character below 200k xp while a beginer
will have 250 xp?

I guess even the average god botherer needs someone to carry the bags and
look after horses.

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Neil Davies <nsdavies@gmail.com> wrote:

> A very good idea!
>
> I would have thought that just creating one character would be enough
> actually.
>
> How about this as another idea: Rather than creating a perfectly new
> character with (say) 200k,
> given another option of donating a lesser amount of EP to an EXISTING
> character - as long as it is already not too high?
>
> Or combine the two: either
> - create a new character from scratch with 200k, or
> - add EP to an existing character to bring it UP to 200k.
>
> Cheers,
> Neil.
>
> On 6 August 2010 13:42, William Dymock-Johnson
> <dymockjohnsonwilliam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have been considering PC retirement lately and have decided that a good
> > solution would be to replace old very high and especially extreme
> characters
> > with two medium ones.
> >  with something like 200K xp to throw about.
> > Advantages.
> > 1. PCs whose very existence warps and distorts the game are removed from
> > active play. As 'retirees' they are now too busy, involved or away to
> > distort the nature of the universe.
> > 2. Players get new characters to play with and try something new.
> > 3. These new characters skip the often tedious trawl through incompetence
> > that can last up to a year or three.
> > 4. It will bring a sense of closure to high level characters.
> > 5. The new characters will advance slower since there are now two of
> them.
> > 6. The new characters are more game friendly since they are not reality
> > warping demigods
> > 7. The campaign can operate at a lower tempo since there are not reality
> > warping demigods to oppose. More conceivable threats can be used.
> > 8. Since campaign events will now be focused to a lower level more
> players
> > will be able to interact with the
> > 9. While I am sure someone can number crunch some bad-ass 'build' with
> 200K
> > xp. But I don't care. They're no longer a reality warping demigod that
> kills
> > dragons as a warm-up exercise.
> > Discuss!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>

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<div>While I like the idea in principle doesn&#39;t this discriminate again=
st new players and actualy at some point in the future make it very hard fo=
r them to find enough people for a game? I mean taken to its logical extrem=
e in a few years won&#39;t it mean no one has a character below 200k xp whi=
le a beginer will have 250 xp?</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>I guess even the average god botherer needs someone to carry the bags =
and look after horses.<br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Neil Davies <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nsdavies@gmail.com">nsdavies@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">A very good idea!<br><br>I would=
 have thought that just creating one character would be enough actually.<br=
>
<br>How about this as another idea: Rather than creating a perfectly new<br=
>character with (say) 200k,<br>given another option of donating a lesser am=
ount of EP to an EXISTING<br>character - as long as it is already not too h=
igh?<br>
<br>Or combine the two: either<br>- create a new character from scratch wit=
h 200k, or<br>- add EP to an existing character to bring it UP to 200k.<br>=
<br>Cheers,<br>Neil.<br><br>On 6 August 2010 13:42, William Dymock-Johnson<=
br>

<div class=3D"im">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dymockjohnsonwilliam@gmail.com">dym=
ockjohnsonwilliam@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; I have been considering =
PC retirement lately and have decided that a good<br>&gt; solution would be=
 to replace old very high and especially extreme characters<br>
&gt; with two medium ones.<br>&gt; =A0with something like 200K xp to throw =
about.<br>&gt; Advantages.<br>&gt; 1. PCs whose very existence warps and di=
storts the game are removed from<br>&gt; active play. As &#39;retirees&#39;=
 they are now too busy, involved or away to<br>
&gt; distort the nature of the universe.<br>&gt; 2. Players get new charact=
ers to play with and try something new.<br>&gt; 3. These new characters ski=
p the often tedious trawl through incompetence<br>&gt; that can last up to =
a year or three.<br>
&gt; 4. It will bring a sense of closure to high level characters.<br>&gt; =
5. The new characters will advance slower since there are now two of them.<=
br>&gt; 6. The new characters are more game friendly since they are not rea=
lity<br>
&gt; warping demigods<br>&gt; 7. The campaign can operate at a lower tempo =
since there are not reality<br>&gt; warping demigods to oppose. More concei=
vable threats can be used.<br>&gt; 8. Since campaign events will now be foc=
used to a lower level more players<br>
&gt; will be able to interact with the<br>&gt; 9. While I am sure someone c=
an number crunch some bad-ass &#39;build&#39; with 200K<br>&gt; xp. But I d=
on&#39;t care. They&#39;re no longer a reality warping demigod that kills<b=
r>
&gt; dragons as a warm-up exercise.<br>&gt; Discuss!<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt=
;<br><br><br></div>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-req=
uest@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br></blockquote></div><br=
>

--00c09f905e6adb94f4048d1f5217--


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There are a couple of specialist archer characters in the guild, they are viable due to
items/gifts/abilities.

The main issue with being an archer in DQ is that most fights take place at short range.  The
figures are placed on the hex grid usually within 50' of each other.  You might get to fire
once or twice (if you had your bow prepared) before you are in melee and need to spend actions
changing to melee weapons.

In theory you could have a melee front line to keep the enemy away from you so you can keep
firing but then your front line is blocking your line of fire.
Ranged damage spells keep working because most of them don't require a clear line of fire.


If a combat starts 800 feet from the opposition then there is room for the archers as they get
to shoot the opposition for a couple of minutes until they're within spell range.

But that gets extremely tedious for the 90% of the party that can't use a bow so GMs start the
combats at closer range, which mean bows are not much use, so nobody ranks them, so it's
tedious to start combat at long range...

Cheers, Stephen.

On Fri, August 6, 2010 2:58 pm, Hamish Brown wrote:
> I would like to see more ranged weapons in the game and for that reason I
> would include them.
>
> Basically after the low end of the game ranged never comes close to magic
> for doing damage while staying out of the way.  That’s probably not going to
> change.  But we don’t even see people trying to create characters that
> specialise in bows.
>
> Legolas was good with a bow in lord of the rings even made it look cool so
> why not.  It would not be hard to create some special abilities specifically
> for ranged.
>
> I don’t see why the current bonuses to SC, IV, and DMG should not apply.
> Although I agree that conceptually the reasons for them applying are
> different for ranged characters as opposed to melee.
>
> Watch out for battle axe, great axe and giant axe though all ranged weapons
> apparently.
>
> Hamish
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Martin
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:58 PM
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill - Weapon Categories
>
> On Wed, August 4, 2010 4:02 pm, Andrew Withy wrote:
>>
>> I'd add bows/slings/crossbows and thrown as two extra warrior categories.
>>
>> Andrew
>
>
> My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies to your use of the
> weapon regardless
> of the range you use it at.
>
> For example, under the current version of Warrior, at rk5 your +6% SC & +1
> Dam applies when
> you use you dagger against an engaged opponent, but if you close or throw it
> at someone then
> you don't get the bonus.
> Under Warrior 3.0 you get the +12/+1 bonus whether it is used in Engaged,
> Close, or Thrown.
>
> This is all good for Daggers, Hand Axes, Spears, Javelins, and a few others.
> But there are
> several weapons that do not have a Warrior Category.
>
> For Bows (Self, Short, Long, Comp, GiantBow) there is Kyujutsu which we
> could potentially
> main-stream as 'Archer' or similar.
> Or we let them be covered by Warrior (gaining SC & Damage bonuses and not
> much else), with the
> option of later acquiring Kyujutsu which doesn't stack with Warrior.
>
> Giant Weapons are not in Categories - I think they should be added to the
> same categories as
> their smaller versions (e.g. Giant Mace is part of Blunt, the same as Mace).
>
> Whip and Lasso could go into Entangling
> Garotte probably should too.
>
> Sap, Crude Club, and Rock could go into Blunt.
>
> This leaves the Purely Thrown Weapons:
> Bola (Entangling?)
> Boomerang (Blunt?)
> Grenado (Blunt? similar to throwing Rocks)
> Dart (Short Swords? to go with Daggers)
>
> And the other missile weapons which we could lump together though rank in
> Spear Thrower giving
> you half rank in Blowgun seems wrong:
> Blowgun
> Sling
> Spear Thrower
> Crossbow / Heavy Crossbow
>
>
> Another option is that we continue to have Weapons that do not belong to
> Warrior Categories,
> but a Warrior may apply their benefits to them if they have ranked them.
> There are no warrior schools that stoop to teaching Crude Club, but when a
> Master Warrior who
> has ranked Crude Club hits you with a chair, it's going to hurt more than
> when the town bully
> hits you with it.
>
>
> At the moment, I'm leaning towards this last option.  It's simple and I
> think it makes more
> sense than trying to force weapons into a Category they don't really fit.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

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In our game on Wednesdays we have a dedicated archer, one character who's
only weapon is a javelin and a slinger. Our Namer (not mine) seems to prefe=
r
close combat to even melee combat and our fire mage has ranged fire magic.
We'd be quite happy at ranged combat.

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:

> There are a couple of specialist archer characters in the guild, they are
> viable due to
> items/gifts/abilities.
>
> The main issue with being an archer in DQ is that most fights take place =
at
> short range.  The
> figures are placed on the hex grid usually within 50' of each other.  You
> might get to fire
> once or twice (if you had your bow prepared) before you are in melee and
> need to spend actions
> changing to melee weapons.
>
> In theory you could have a melee front line to keep the enemy away from y=
ou
> so you can keep
> firing but then your front line is blocking your line of fire.
> Ranged damage spells keep working because most of them don't require a
> clear line of fire.
>
>
> If a combat starts 800 feet from the opposition then there is room for th=
e
> archers as they get
> to shoot the opposition for a couple of minutes until they're within spel=
l
> range.
>
> But that gets extremely tedious for the 90% of the party that can't use a
> bow so GMs start the
> combats at closer range, which mean bows are not much use, so nobody rank=
s
> them, so it's
> tedious to start combat at long range...
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
> On Fri, August 6, 2010 2:58 pm, Hamish Brown wrote:
> > I would like to see more ranged weapons in the game and for that reason=
 I
> > would include them.
> >
> > Basically after the low end of the game ranged never comes close to mag=
ic
> > for doing damage while staying out of the way.  That=92s probably not g=
oing
> to
> > change.  But we don=92t even see people trying to create characters tha=
t
> > specialise in bows.
> >
> > Legolas was good with a bow in lord of the rings even made it look cool
> so
> > why not.  It would not be hard to create some special abilities
> specifically
> > for ranged.
> >
> > I don=92t see why the current bonuses to SC, IV, and DMG should not app=
ly.
> > Although I agree that conceptually the reasons for them applying are
> > different for ranged characters as opposed to melee.
> >
> > Watch out for battle axe, great axe and giant axe though all ranged
> weapons
> > apparently.
> >
> > Hamish
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> > Stephen Martin
> > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:58 PM
> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> > Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill - Weapon Categories
> >
> > On Wed, August 4, 2010 4:02 pm, Andrew Withy wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd add bows/slings/crossbows and thrown as two extra warrior
> categories.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >
> >
> > My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies to your use o=
f
> the
> > weapon regardless
> > of the range you use it at.
> >
> > For example, under the current version of Warrior, at rk5 your +6% SC &
> +1
> > Dam applies when
> > you use you dagger against an engaged opponent, but if you close or thr=
ow
> it
> > at someone then
> > you don't get the bonus.
> > Under Warrior 3.0 you get the +12/+1 bonus whether it is used in Engage=
d,
> > Close, or Thrown.
> >
> > This is all good for Daggers, Hand Axes, Spears, Javelins, and a few
> others.
> > But there are
> > several weapons that do not have a Warrior Category.
> >
> > For Bows (Self, Short, Long, Comp, GiantBow) there is Kyujutsu which we
> > could potentially
> > main-stream as 'Archer' or similar.
> > Or we let them be covered by Warrior (gaining SC & Damage bonuses and n=
ot
> > much else), with the
> > option of later acquiring Kyujutsu which doesn't stack with Warrior.
> >
> > Giant Weapons are not in Categories - I think they should be added to t=
he
> > same categories as
> > their smaller versions (e.g. Giant Mace is part of Blunt, the same as
> Mace).
> >
> > Whip and Lasso could go into Entangling
> > Garotte probably should too.
> >
> > Sap, Crude Club, and Rock could go into Blunt.
> >
> > This leaves the Purely Thrown Weapons:
> > Bola (Entangling?)
> > Boomerang (Blunt?)
> > Grenado (Blunt? similar to throwing Rocks)
> > Dart (Short Swords? to go with Daggers)
> >
> > And the other missile weapons which we could lump together though rank =
in
> > Spear Thrower giving
> > you half rank in Blowgun seems wrong:
> > Blowgun
> > Sling
> > Spear Thrower
> > Crossbow / Heavy Crossbow
> >
> >
> > Another option is that we continue to have Weapons that do not belong t=
o
> > Warrior Categories,
> > but a Warrior may apply their benefits to them if they have ranked them=
.
> > There are no warrior schools that stoop to teaching Crude Club, but whe=
n
> a
> > Master Warrior who
> > has ranked Crude Club hits you with a chair, it's going to hurt more th=
an
> > when the town bully
> > hits you with it.
> >
> >
> > At the moment, I'm leaning towards this last option.  It's simple and I
> > think it makes more
> > sense than trying to force weapons into a Category they don't really fi=
t.
> >
> > Cheers, Stephen.
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> >
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>

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In our game on Wednesdays we have a dedicated archer, one character who&#39=
;s only weapon is a javelin and a slinger. Our Namer (not mine) seems to pr=
efer close combat to even melee combat and our fire mage has ranged fire ma=
gic. We&#39;d be quite happy at ranged combat.<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Stephen Martin <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@aklnz.n=
et</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">There are a couple of specialist=
 archer characters in the guild, they are viable due to<br>items/gifts/abil=
ities.<br>
<br>The main issue with being an archer in DQ is that most fights take plac=
e at short range. =A0The<br>figures are placed on the hex grid usually with=
in 50&#39; of each other. =A0You might get to fire<br>once or twice (if you=
 had your bow prepared) before you are in melee and need to spend actions<b=
r>
changing to melee weapons.<br><br>In theory you could have a melee front li=
ne to keep the enemy away from you so you can keep<br>firing but then your =
front line is blocking your line of fire.<br>Ranged damage spells keep work=
ing because most of them don&#39;t require a clear line of fire.<br>
<br><br>If a combat starts 800 feet from the opposition then there is room =
for the archers as they get<br>to shoot the opposition for a couple of minu=
tes until they&#39;re within spell range.<br><br>But that gets extremely te=
dious for the 90% of the party that can&#39;t use a bow so GMs start the<br=
>
combats at closer range, which mean bows are not much use, so nobody ranks =
them, so it&#39;s<br>tedious to start combat at long range...<br><br>Cheers=
, Stephen.<br>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br>On Fri, August 6, 2010 2:58 pm, Hamish Brown wrote:<b=
r>&gt; I would like to see more ranged weapons in the game and for that rea=
son I<br>&gt; would include them.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Basically after the low e=
nd of the game ranged never comes close to magic<br>
&gt; for doing damage while staying out of the way. =A0That=92s probably no=
t going to<br>&gt; change. =A0But we don=92t even see people trying to crea=
te characters that<br>&gt; specialise in bows.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Legolas was =
good with a bow in lord of the rings even made it look cool so<br>
&gt; why not. =A0It would not be hard to create some special abilities spec=
ifically<br>&gt; for ranged.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I don=92t see why the current =
bonuses to SC, IV, and DMG should not apply.<br>&gt; Although I agree that =
conceptually the reasons for them applying are<br>
&gt; different for ranged characters as opposed to melee.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; W=
atch out for battle axe, great axe and giant axe though all ranged weapons<=
br>&gt; apparently.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Hamish<br>&gt;<br>&gt; =A0<br>&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq=
.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq=
.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] On Behalf Of<br>&gt; Stephen Martin<=
br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:58 PM<br>&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:d=
q@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill=
 - Weapon Categories<br>&gt;<br>&gt; On Wed, August 4, 2010 4:02 pm, Andrew=
 Withy wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; I&#39;d add bows/slings/crossbows and thrown as two ex=
tra warrior categories.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Andrew<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&=
gt; My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies to your use o=
f the<br>
&gt; weapon regardless<br>&gt; of the range you use it at.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; =
For example, under the current version of Warrior, at rk5 your +6% SC &amp;=
 +1<br>&gt; Dam applies when<br>&gt; you use you dagger against an engaged =
opponent, but if you close or throw it<br>
&gt; at someone then<br>&gt; you don&#39;t get the bonus.<br>&gt; Under War=
rior 3.0 you get the +12/+1 bonus whether it is used in Engaged,<br>&gt; Cl=
ose, or Thrown.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; This is all good for Daggers, Hand Axes, Sp=
ears, Javelins, and a few others.<br>
&gt; But there are<br>&gt; several weapons that do not have a Warrior Categ=
ory.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; For Bows (Self, Short, Long, Comp, GiantBow) there is =
Kyujutsu which we<br>&gt; could potentially<br>&gt; main-stream as &#39;Arc=
her&#39; or similar.<br>
&gt; Or we let them be covered by Warrior (gaining SC &amp; Damage bonuses =
and not<br>&gt; much else), with the<br>&gt; option of later acquiring Kyuj=
utsu which doesn&#39;t stack with Warrior.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Giant Weapons ar=
e not in Categories - I think they should be added to the<br>
&gt; same categories as<br>&gt; their smaller versions (e.g. Giant Mace is =
part of Blunt, the same as Mace).<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Whip and Lasso could go i=
nto Entangling<br>&gt; Garotte probably should too.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Sap, Cr=
ude Club, and Rock could go into Blunt.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; This leaves the Purely Thrown Weapons:<br>&gt; Bola (Entanglin=
g?)<br>&gt; Boomerang (Blunt?)<br>&gt; Grenado (Blunt? similar to throwing =
Rocks)<br>&gt; Dart (Short Swords? to go with Daggers)<br>&gt;<br>&gt; And =
the other missile weapons which we could lump together though rank in<br>
&gt; Spear Thrower giving<br>&gt; you half rank in Blowgun seems wrong:<br>=
&gt; Blowgun<br>&gt; Sling<br>&gt; Spear Thrower<br>&gt; Crossbow / Heavy C=
rossbow<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Another option is that we continue to have =
Weapons that do not belong to<br>
&gt; Warrior Categories,<br>&gt; but a Warrior may apply their benefits to =
them if they have ranked them.<br>&gt; There are no warrior schools that st=
oop to teaching Crude Club, but when a<br>&gt; Master Warrior who<br>&gt; h=
as ranked Crude Club hits you with a chair, it&#39;s going to hurt more tha=
n<br>
&gt; when the town bully<br>&gt; hits you with it.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; =
At the moment, I&#39;m leaning towards this last option. =A0It&#39;s simple=
 and I<br>&gt; think it makes more<br>&gt; sense than trying to force weapo=
ns into a Category they don&#39;t really fit.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; Cheers, Stephen.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; -- to unsubscribe not=
ify mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.=
nz</a> --<br>&gt;<br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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One of the ideas behind getting two new characters is that hopefully players
will divide their time between them.

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One of the ideas behind getting two new characters is that hopefully player=
s will divide their time between them.=A0

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On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz>wrote:

> I would like to see more ranged weapons in the game and for that reason I
> would include them.
>

Very happy to have bows in the game. Very happy to give archers abilities.
Very happy to see specialist archers.

Just don't want to try and shoehorn these into the very melee based Warrior
skill.

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Hamish Brown <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz">perfect_brow=
n@xtra.co.nz</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);=
 padding-left: 1ex;">
I would like to see more ranged weapons in the game and for that reason I<b=
r>
would include them.<br></blockquote><div><br>Very happy to have bows in the=
 game. Very happy to give archers abilities. Very happy to see specialist a=
rchers.<br><br>Just don&#39;t want to try and shoehorn these into the very =
melee based Warrior skill.<br>
<br><br></div></div>

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I am not interested in seeing ranged weapons get any particular bonus at
all. They should remain as pathetic as they are.

On 6 August 2010 14:58, Hamish Brown <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

> I would like to see more ranged weapons in the game and for that reason I
> would include them.
>
> Basically after the low end of the game ranged never comes close to magic
> for doing damage while staying out of the way.  That=92s probably not goi=
ng
> to
> change.  But we don=92t even see people trying to create characters that
> specialise in bows.
>
> Legolas was good with a bow in lord of the rings even made it look cool s=
o
> why not.  It would not be hard to create some special abilities
> specifically
> for ranged.
>
> I don=92t see why the current bonuses to SC, IV, and DMG should not apply=
.
> Although I agree that conceptually the reasons for them applying are
> different for ranged characters as opposed to melee.
>
> Watch out for battle axe, great axe and giant axe though all ranged weapo=
ns
> apparently.
>
> Hamish
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Martin
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:58 PM
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill - Weapon Categories
>
> On Wed, August 4, 2010 4:02 pm, Andrew Withy wrote:
> >
> > I'd add bows/slings/crossbows and thrown as two extra warrior categorie=
s.
> >
> > Andrew
>
>
> My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies to your use of
> the
> weapon regardless
> of the range you use it at.
>
>  For example, under the current version of Warrior, at rk5 your +6% SC &
> +1
> Dam applies when
> you use you dagger against an engaged opponent, but if you close or throw
> it
> at someone then
> you don't get the bonus.
> Under Warrior 3.0 you get the +12/+1 bonus whether it is used in Engaged,
> Close, or Thrown.
>
> This is all good for Daggers, Hand Axes, Spears, Javelins, and a few
> others.
> But there are
> several weapons that do not have a Warrior Category.
>
> For Bows (Self, Short, Long, Comp, GiantBow) there is Kyujutsu which we
> could potentially
> main-stream as 'Archer' or similar.
> Or we let them be covered by Warrior (gaining SC & Damage bonuses and not
> much else), with the
> option of later acquiring Kyujutsu which doesn't stack with Warrior.
>
> Giant Weapons are not in Categories - I think they should be added to the
> same categories as
> their smaller versions (e.g. Giant Mace is part of Blunt, the same as
> Mace).
>
> Whip and Lasso could go into Entangling
> Garotte probably should too.
>
> Sap, Crude Club, and Rock could go into Blunt.
>
> This leaves the Purely Thrown Weapons:
> Bola (Entangling?)
> Boomerang (Blunt?)
> Grenado (Blunt? similar to throwing Rocks)
> Dart (Short Swords? to go with Daggers)
>
> And the other missile weapons which we could lump together though rank in
> Spear Thrower giving
> you half rank in Blowgun seems wrong:
> Blowgun
> Sling
> Spear Thrower
> Crossbow / Heavy Crossbow
>
>
> Another option is that we continue to have Weapons that do not belong to
> Warrior Categories,
> but a Warrior may apply their benefits to them if they have ranked them.
> There are no warrior schools that stoop to teaching Crude Club, but when =
a
> Master Warrior who
> has ranked Crude Club hits you with a chair, it's going to hurt more than
> when the town bully
> hits you with it.
>
>
> At the moment, I'm leaning towards this last option.  It's simple and I
> think it makes more
> sense than trying to force weapons into a Category they don't really fit.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>

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<font face=3D"georgia,serif">I am not interested in seeing ranged weapons g=
et any particular bonus at all. They should remain as pathetic as they are.=
<br></font><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 6 August 2010 14:58, Hamish Brown <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz">perfect_brown@xtra=
.co.nz</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">I would like to see more ranged =
weapons in the game and for that reason I<br>would include them.<br><br>Bas=
ically after the low end of the game ranged never comes close to magic<br>
for doing damage while staying out of the way. =A0That=92s probably not goi=
ng to<br>change. =A0But we don=92t even see people trying to create charact=
ers that<br>specialise in bows.<br><br>Legolas was good with a bow in lord =
of the rings even made it look cool so<br>
why not. =A0It would not be hard to create some special abilities specifica=
lly<br>for ranged.<br><br>I don=92t see why the current bonuses to SC, IV, =
and DMG should not apply.<br>Although I agree that conceptually the reasons=
 for them applying are<br>
different for ranged characters as opposed to melee.<br><br>Watch out for b=
attle axe, great axe and giant axe though all ranged weapons<br>apparently.=
<br><font color=3D"#888888"><br>Hamish<br></font>
<div class=3D"im"><br>=A0<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] On Behalf Of<=
br>
Stephen Martin<br>Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:58 PM<br>To: <a href=3D"=
mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Sk=
ill - Weapon Categories<br><br>On Wed, August 4, 2010 4:02 pm, Andrew Withy=
 wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; I&#39;d add bows/slings/crossbows and thrown as two extra warr=
ior categories.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Andrew<br><br><br></div>
<div class=3D"im">My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies=
 to your use of the<br>weapon regardless<br>of the range you use it at.<br>=
<br></div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">For example, under the current version of Warrior, at rk5=
 your +6% SC &amp; +1<br>Dam applies when<br>you use you dagger against an =
engaged opponent, but if you close or throw it<br>at someone then<br>you do=
n&#39;t get the bonus.<br>
Under Warrior 3.0 you get the +12/+1 bonus whether it is used in Engaged,<b=
r>Close, or Thrown.<br><br>This is all good for Daggers, Hand Axes, Spears,=
 Javelins, and a few others.<br>But there are<br>several weapons that do no=
t have a Warrior Category.<br>
<br>For Bows (Self, Short, Long, Comp, GiantBow) there is Kyujutsu which we=
<br>could potentially<br>main-stream as &#39;Archer&#39; or similar.<br>Or =
we let them be covered by Warrior (gaining SC &amp; Damage bonuses and not<=
br>
much else), with the<br>option of later acquiring Kyujutsu which doesn&#39;=
t stack with Warrior.<br><br>Giant Weapons are not in Categories - I think =
they should be added to the<br>same categories as<br>their smaller versions=
 (e.g. Giant Mace is part of Blunt, the same as Mace).<br>
<br>Whip and Lasso could go into Entangling<br>Garotte probably should too.=
<br><br>Sap, Crude Club, and Rock could go into Blunt.<br><br>This leaves t=
he Purely Thrown Weapons:<br>Bola (Entangling?)<br>Boomerang (Blunt?)<br>
Grenado (Blunt? similar to throwing Rocks)<br>Dart (Short Swords? to go wit=
h Daggers)<br><br>And the other missile weapons which we could lump togethe=
r though rank in<br>Spear Thrower giving<br>you half rank in Blowgun seems =
wrong:<br>
Blowgun<br>Sling<br>Spear Thrower<br>Crossbow / Heavy Crossbow<br><br><br>A=
nother option is that we continue to have Weapons that do not belong to<br>=
Warrior Categories,<br>but a Warrior may apply their benefits to them if th=
ey have ranked them.<br>
There are no warrior schools that stoop to teaching Crude Club, but when a<=
br>Master Warrior who<br>has ranked Crude Club hits you with a chair, it&#3=
9;s going to hurt more than<br>when the town bully<br>hits you with it.<br>
<br><br>At the moment, I&#39;m leaning towards this last option. =A0It&#39;=
s simple and I<br>think it makes more<br>sense than trying to force weapons=
 into a Category they don&#39;t really fit.<br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br><br>
<br>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.=
nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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Well Stephen it seems as if the key skill archers need is the ability to
switch seamlessly back and forth from bow to melee weapon as a free action.

Not as part of warrior though it does not feel right to Martin. 

It should be quite easy to create a related skill structure for archers
after warrior is done.

Hamish

 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 3:44 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill - Weapon Categories

There are a couple of specialist archer characters in the guild, they are
viable due to
items/gifts/abilities.

The main issue with being an archer in DQ is that most fights take place at
short range.  The
figures are placed on the hex grid usually within 50' of each other.  You
might get to fire
once or twice (if you had your bow prepared) before you are in melee and
need to spend actions
changing to melee weapons.

In theory you could have a melee front line to keep the enemy away from you
so you can keep
firing but then your front line is blocking your line of fire.
Ranged damage spells keep working because most of them don't require a clear
line of fire.


If a combat starts 800 feet from the opposition then there is room for the
archers as they get
to shoot the opposition for a couple of minutes until they're within spell
range.

But that gets extremely tedious for the 90% of the party that can't use a
bow so GMs start the
combats at closer range, which mean bows are not much use, so nobody ranks
them, so it's
tedious to start combat at long range...

Cheers, Stephen.

On Fri, August 6, 2010 2:58 pm, Hamish Brown wrote:
> I would like to see more ranged weapons in the game and for that reason I
> would include them.
>
> Basically after the low end of the game ranged never comes close to magic
> for doing damage while staying out of the way.  That’s probably not going
to
> change.  But we don’t even see people trying to create characters that
> specialise in bows.
>
> Legolas was good with a bow in lord of the rings even made it look cool so
> why not.  It would not be hard to create some special abilities
specifically
> for ranged.
>
> I don’t see why the current bonuses to SC, IV, and DMG should not apply.
> Although I agree that conceptually the reasons for them applying are
> different for ranged characters as opposed to melee.
>
> Watch out for battle axe, great axe and giant axe though all ranged
weapons
> apparently.
>
> Hamish
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Martin
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:58 PM
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Warrior Skill - Weapon Categories
>
> On Wed, August 4, 2010 4:02 pm, Andrew Withy wrote:
>>
>> I'd add bows/slings/crossbows and thrown as two extra warrior categories.
>>
>> Andrew
>
>
> My intention is that under Warrior 3.0 your bonus applies to your use of
the
> weapon regardless
> of the range you use it at.
>
> For example, under the current version of Warrior, at rk5 your +6% SC & +1
> Dam applies when
> you use you dagger against an engaged opponent, but if you close or throw
it
> at someone then
> you don't get the bonus.
> Under Warrior 3.0 you get the +12/+1 bonus whether it is used in Engaged,
> Close, or Thrown.
>
> This is all good for Daggers, Hand Axes, Spears, Javelins, and a few
others.
> But there are
> several weapons that do not have a Warrior Category.
>
> For Bows (Self, Short, Long, Comp, GiantBow) there is Kyujutsu which we
> could potentially
> main-stream as 'Archer' or similar.
> Or we let them be covered by Warrior (gaining SC & Damage bonuses and not
> much else), with the
> option of later acquiring Kyujutsu which doesn't stack with Warrior.
>
> Giant Weapons are not in Categories - I think they should be added to the
> same categories as
> their smaller versions (e.g. Giant Mace is part of Blunt, the same as
Mace).
>
> Whip and Lasso could go into Entangling
> Garotte probably should too.
>
> Sap, Crude Club, and Rock could go into Blunt.
>
> This leaves the Purely Thrown Weapons:
> Bola (Entangling?)
> Boomerang (Blunt?)
> Grenado (Blunt? similar to throwing Rocks)
> Dart (Short Swords? to go with Daggers)
>
> And the other missile weapons which we could lump together though rank in
> Spear Thrower giving
> you half rank in Blowgun seems wrong:
> Blowgun
> Sling
> Spear Thrower
> Crossbow / Heavy Crossbow
>
>
> Another option is that we continue to have Weapons that do not belong to
> Warrior Categories,
> but a Warrior may apply their benefits to them if they have ranked them.
> There are no warrior schools that stoop to teaching Crude Club, but when a
> Master Warrior who
> has ranked Crude Club hits you with a chair, it's going to hurt more than
> when the town bully
> hits you with it.
>
>
> At the moment, I'm leaning towards this last option.  It's simple and I
> think it makes more
> sense than trying to force weapons into a Category they don't really fit.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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I'll whip that right up... done!

Please refer to Rk 5 & Rk 10 abilities:
http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Kyujutsu#Special_Benefits

On Fri, August 6, 2010 5:24 pm, Hamish Brown wrote:
> Well Stephen it seems as if the key skill archers need is the ability to
> switch seamlessly back and forth from bow to melee weapon as a free action.
>
> Not as part of warrior though it does not feel right to Martin.
>
> It should be quite easy to create a related skill structure for archers
> after warrior is done.
>
> Hamish


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Yeah it is quite nice. Combine it with a (melee) weapon that you can
ready/unready at (almost) whim and you can (almost) always have the
right weapon out for the range.

TTFN, Struan.

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 23:06, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:
> I'll whip that right up... done!
>
> Please refer to Rk 5 & Rk 10 abilities:
> http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Kyujutsu#Special_Benefits
>
> On Fri, August 6, 2010 5:24 pm, Hamish Brown wrote:
>> Well Stephen it seems as if the key skill archers need is the ability to
>> switch seamlessly back and forth from bow to melee weapon as a free action.
>>
>> Not as part of warrior though it does not feel right to Martin.
>>
>> It should be quite easy to create a related skill structure for archers
>> after warrior is done.
>>
>> Hamish
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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