Messages for 11 April 2011

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Jim Arona
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:31:28 +1200
--0016e65dc8ec57fbd804a08fa34e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons (+500 per Rank). A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20 ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a bit. --0016e65dc8ec57fbd804a08fa34e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">The equation for the amount of water a Rune Ma= ge can bind is 500 gallons (+500 per Rank).<br>A gallon of water weighs 10 = lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can bind just over 2 metric ton= nes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20.<br> A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it= somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20= ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a b= it.</font><br> <br> --0016e65dc8ec57fbd804a08fa34e-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Ian Wood
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 09:49:04 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CBF82D.B1FFF6F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim, To quote yourself on rules other people have raised: "who cares" if it is one ton or 100 tons? I don't care. Just get on with the game. Ian _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim Arona Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 12:31 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons (+500 per Rank). A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20 ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a bit. _____ _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CBF82D.B1FFF6F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- / Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Georgia; panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p.avgcert, li.avgcert, div.avgcert {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi = Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>To quote yourself on rules other = people have raised: “who cares” if it is one ton or 100 = tons?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I don’t care. Just get on = with the game.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ian<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span = style=3D'font-weight: bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April = 2011 12:31 a.m.<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Rune</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>: Binding Elements</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 = face=3DGeorgia><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>The equation for the = amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons (+500 per Rank).<br> A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage = can bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank = 20.<br> A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make = it somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank = 20 ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a = bit.</span></font><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" noshade color=3D"#aca899" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <p class=3Davgcert color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>No virus found in this message.<br> Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: = 04/10/11<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CBF82D.B1FFF6F0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 10:40:29 +1200
This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. Air - Can't. Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank) Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of Binding Elements. I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element at a comparable level. I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Element as the college of that element. Proposed changes... All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental Colleges, half that for Rune. This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of earth/stone); no change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic feet); Rune will generally decrease. At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a 'sprite'. Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. * 4EN for permanent and moveable. * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a location, may not be affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Bound Earth. Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM General Rituals but that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth. Cheers, Stephen. On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > (+500 per Rank). > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20 > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > bit. > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Jim Arona
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:19:20 +1200
--0016e65dc8ecea262004a099869d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some people have raised rule changes for basic symmetry with little or no underlying reasoning other than it pleases their sense of rules symmetry, which is a waste of time and a drain on my limited resources of patience. I don't see that this is. There may be a reasoned counterposition that I have missed, but I have not seen any mention of it so far, and so I still take the position that the current rule is, if not broken, not working well= . On 11 April 2011 09:49, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > > > To quote yourself on rules other people have raised: =93who cares=94 if i= t is > one ton or 100 tons? > > > > I don=92t care. Just get on with the game. > > > > Ian > > > ------------------------------ > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf O= f > Jim Arona > Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 12:31 a.m. > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > > > > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > (+500 per Rank). > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage c= an > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make = it > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 2= 0 > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > bit. > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 > --0016e65dc8ecea262004a099869d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">Some people have raised rule changes for basic= symmetry with little or no underlying reasoning other than it pleases thei= r sense of rules symmetry, which is a waste of time and a drain on my limit= ed resources of patience. <br> I don't see that this is.=A0 There may be a reasoned counterposition th= at I have missed, but I have not seen any mention of it so far, and so I st= ill take the position that the current rule is, if not broken, not working = well.<br> <br></font><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 April 2011 09:49, Ian Wood = <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtr= a.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D= "border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padd= ing-left: 1ex;"> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" lang=3D"EN-US"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Hi Jim,</span>= </font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">=A0</span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">To quote yours= elf on rules other people have raised: =93who cares=94 if it is one ton or 100 tons?</span></font></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">=A0</span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I don=92t care= . Just get on with the game.</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">=A0</span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Ian</span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">=A0</span></fo= nt></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><fo= nt face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> <hr width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" size=3D"2"> </span></font></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"f= ont-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font= ></b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-= family: Tahoma;"> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.o= rg.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank= ">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">On Behal= f Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April 201= 1 12:31 a.m.<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@d= q.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Rune Col= lege: Binding Elements</span></font></p> </div><div class=3D"im"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 12pt;">=A0</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Georgia= " size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Georgia;">The equ= ation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons (+500 per Rank).<br> A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20.<br> A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20 ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a bi= t.</span></font><br> <br> </p> </div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"cente= r"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt= ;"> <hr width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" size=3D"2"> </span></font></div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><fo= nt face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> <hr width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" color=3D"#aca899" noshade size=3D"1"> </span></font></div> <p color=3D"#000000"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style= =3D"font-size: 12pt;">No virus found in this message.<br> Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" target=3D"_blank">www.avg.c= om</a><br> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11</sp= an></font></p> </div> </div> </blockquote></div><br> --0016e65dc8ecea262004a099869d-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Bernard Hoggins
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 01:24:33 +0100 (BST)
--0-1833127104-1302481473=:88446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and situa= tion of the elements isn't even.=A0 A Water mage will typically be binding = water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships.=A0 So they ar= e dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' long wit= h substantial beam. Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be sig= nificantly smaller. I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their= current volume of binding elements.' If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. From Bernard Hoggins =0Anevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. Air - Can't. Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' radi= us (+15/rank) Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a = limited form of Binding Elements. I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element a= t a comparable level. I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Elemen= t as the college of that element. Proposed changes... All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume.=A0 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for = the Elemental Colleges, half that for Rune. This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of e= arth/stone); no change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic fee= t); Rune will generally decrease. At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intellig= ence - creating a 'sprite'. Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. * 4EN for permanent and moveable. * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a l= ocation, may not be affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Boun= d Earth. Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM Ge= neral Rituals but that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth. Cheers, Stephen. On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > (+500 per Rank). > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage c= an > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make = it > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 2= 0 > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > bit. > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- --0-1833127104-1302481473=:88446 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"= top" style=3D"font: inherit;">The problem with trying to make them all equa= l is that the useage and situation of the elements isn't even.  A Wate= r mage will typically be binding water inside a larger body of water, when = dealing with ships.  So they are dealing with objects that hold up to = a hundred tons and are 100' long with substantial beam.<br>Earth mages howe= ver are dealing with land based things which tend to be significantly small= er.<br><br>I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked i= s....<br>'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power w= ith their current volume of binding elements.'<br>If the answer is no, then= uneveness isn't an issue.<br><br>From Bernard Hoggins<br>=0Anevyn0ad@yahoo= .co.uk<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <i><stephenm@aklnz.= net></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(1= 6, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Stephen Martin= <stephenm@aklnz.net><br>Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elem= ents<br>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br>Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM<b= r><br><div class=3D"plainMail">This made me curious about how the other Bin= d Elements compare, they don't.<br><br>Air - Can't.<br>Earth (500 EM Spec R= itual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk).<br>Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+1= 0/rk)<br>Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<br>Water (750 EM Gen= Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank)<br>= Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual)<br>- Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk)<br>- Earth = - 500 lbs (+500/rk)<br>- Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk)<br>- Water - 500 ga= llons (+500/rk)<br>Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of<br>Binding Elements.= <br><br>I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their E= lement at a comparable level.<br>I don't think that any other college shoul= d be as good at Binding an Element as the college of<br>that element.<br><b= r><br>Proposed changes...<br><br>All Elemental Binding to be based on Volum= e.  10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental<br>Colleges, half that fo= r Rune.<br>This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends o= n type of earth/stone); no<br>change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currentl= y 390 to 3.6 million cubic feet); Rune will<br>generally decrease.<br><br>A= t rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intellige= nce - creating a<br>'sprite'.<br><br>Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sen= tient to make it permanent:<br>* 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location.= <br>* 4EN for permanent and moveable.<br>* Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a location, may not be<br>affe= cted by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Bound Ea= rth.<br><br>Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air.<br><br><br>Id= eally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM Gene= ral Rituals but<br>that's probably more hassle for existing characters than= it's worth.<br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br><br>On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am= , Jim Arona wrote:<br>> The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage= can bind is 500 gallons<br>> (+500 per Rank).<br>> A gallon of water= weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can<br>> bind jus= t over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20.<br>> A mor= e reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it<br>&= gt; somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank= 20<br>> ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a<br>> bit.<br>><br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe notify = mailto:<a ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" href=3D"/mc/compose?to= =3Ddq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br></div></block= quote></td></tr></table> --0-1833127104-1302481473=:88446-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Jim Arona
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:18:21 +1200
--0016e64ccc26f1686d04a09a592f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and > situation of the elements isn't even. A Water mage will typically be > binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships. So > they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' > long with substantial beam. > Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be > significantly smaller. > > I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... > 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their > current volume of binding elements.' > If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. > > From Bernard Hoggins > nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk > > --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: > > > From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> > > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM > > This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. > > Air - Can't. > Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). > Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) > Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) > Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' > radius (+15/rank) > Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) > - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) > - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) > - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) > - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) > Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a > limited form of > Binding Elements. > > I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element > at a comparable level. > I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an > Element as the college of > that element. > > > Proposed changes... > > All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for > the Elemental > Colleges, half that for Rune. > This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of > earth/stone); no > change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic > feet); Rune will > generally decrease. > > At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary > intelligence - creating a > 'sprite'. > > Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: > * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. > * 4EN for permanent and moveable. > * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a > location, may not be > affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to > Bound Earth. > > Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. > > > Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM > General Rituals but > that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth. > > Cheers, Stephen. > > On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > > (+500 per Rank). > > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage > can > > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make > it > > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank > 20 > > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > > bit. > > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz<http://mc/compose?to=dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz>-- > > --0016e64ccc26f1686d04a09a592f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage<br></fon= t><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <s= pan dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk">nevyn0ad@yahoo.= co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, = 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><table border=3D"= 0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td style=3D"font-family:= inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit;= font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-= stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top"> The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and situa= tion of the elements isn't even.=A0 A Water mage will typically be bind= ing water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships.=A0 So the= y are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' = long with substantial beam.<br> Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be sig= nificantly smaller.<br><br>I believe the most important question that has y= et to be asked is....<br>'Can any college do anything which is 'bro= ken' in terms of power with their current volume of binding elements.&#= 39;<br> If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue.<br><br>From Bernard= Hoggins<br> <a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co= .uk</a><br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <i><<a href=3D"mai= lto:stephenm@aklnz.net" target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>></i></b= > wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: = 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Stephen Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:ste= phenm@aklnz.net" target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>><div class=3D"= im"> <br>Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements<br>To: <a href=3D"mail= to:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br></div>Received= : Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM<br><br><div><div><div></div><div class= =3D"h5"> This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don&#3= 9;t.<br><br>Air - Can't.<br>Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/= rk).<br>Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk)<br>Ice (750 EM Ge= n Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<br> Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' = radius (+15/rank)<br>Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual)<br>- Air - 1,000 cubic feet = (+500/rk)<br>- Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk)<br>- Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk= )<br> - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk)<br>Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of<br>Binding Elements.= <br><br>I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their E= lement at a comparable level.<br>I don't think that any other college s= hould be as good at Binding an Element as the college of<br> that element.<br><br><br>Proposed changes...<br><br>All Elemental Binding t= o be based on Volume.=A0 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental<br>Colleg= es, half that for Rune.<br>This will be an increase for Earth (amount of in= crease depends on type of earth/stone); no<br> change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic fee= t); Rune will<br>generally decrease.<br><br>At rank 10 and higher Elem. Col= leges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a<br>'sprit= e'.<br> <br>Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent:<br>* = 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location.<br>* 4EN for permanent and movea= ble.<br>* Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a location, may not be= <br>affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to = Bound Earth.<br><br>Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air.<br> <br><br>Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 7= 50 EM General Rituals but<br>that's probably more hassle for existing c= haracters than it's worth.<br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br><br>On Mon, April= 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote:<br> </div></div><div class=3D"im">> The equation for the amount of water a R= une Mage can bind is 500 gallons<br>> (+500 per Rank).<br>> A gallon = of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can<br>> = bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20.<br> > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will ma= ke it<br>> somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bou= nd. A Rank 20<br>> ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, whi= ch is still quite a<br>> bit.<br>><br><br><br></div><div class=3D"im">-= - to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request= @dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br></div></= div> </blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote></div><br> --0016e64ccc26f1686d04a09a592f-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Ian Anderson
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:49:58 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CBF84F.59B04460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual. From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim Arona Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and situation of the elements isn't even. A Water mage will typically be binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships. So they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' long with substantial beam. Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be significantly smaller. I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their current volume of binding elements.' If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. From Bernard Hoggins nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. Air - Can't. Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank) Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of Binding Elements. I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element at a comparable level. I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Element as the college of that element. Proposed changes... All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental Colleges, half that for Rune. This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of earth/stone); no change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic feet); Rune will generally decrease. At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a 'sprite'. Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. * 4EN for permanent and moveable. * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a location, may not be affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Bound Earth. Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM General Rituals but that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth. Cheers, Stephen. On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > (+500 per Rank). > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20 > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > bit. > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz <http://mc/compose?to=dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz> -- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CBF84F.59B04460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META = HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 = (filtered medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Georgia; panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;} @font-face {font-family:inherit; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} / Style Definitions / p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} ..MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-NZ link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 = ritual.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div = style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= </b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b>On Behalf Of = </b>Jim Arona<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 = p.m.<br><b>To:</b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Rune = College: Binding Elements<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span = style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>48 metric tonnes is a lot of = sewerage</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 11 April 2011 = 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <<a = href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 = cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td valign=3Dtop = style=3D'padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 0cm;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-size= :inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size-adjust: inherit;font-stretch: = inherit'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>The problem with trying to make = them all equal is that the useage and situation of the elements isn't = even.  A Water mage will typically be binding water inside a larger = body of water, when dealing with ships.  So they are dealing with = objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' long with = substantial beam.<br>Earth mages however are dealing with land based = things which tend to be significantly smaller.<br><br>I believe the most = important question that has yet to be asked is....<br>'Can any college = do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their current = volume of binding elements.'<br>If the answer is no, then uneveness = isn't an issue.<br><br>From Bernard Hoggins<br><a = href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" = target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a><br><br>--- On <b>Mon, = 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <i><<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net" = target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>></i></b> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'><br>From: Stephen Martin <<a = href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net" = target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p= class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'><br>Subject: Re: [dq] Rune = College: Binding Elements<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span = style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Received: Monday, 11 April, = 2011, 10:40 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>This = made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they = don't.<br><br>Air - Can't.<br>Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs = (+500/rk).<br>Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk)<br>Ice = (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<br>Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - = Not Specified, all water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank)<br>Rune = (500 EM Spec Ritual)<br>- Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk)<br>- Earth - = 500 lbs (+500/rk)<br>- Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk)<br>- Water - 500 = gallons (+500/rk)<br>Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 = cubic feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of<br>Binding Elements.<br><br>I = think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element = at a comparable level.<br>I don't think that any other college should be = as good at Binding an Element as the college of<br>that = element.<br><br><br>Proposed changes...<br><br>All Elemental Binding to = be based on Volume.  10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the = Elemental<br>Colleges, half that for Rune.<br>This will be an increase = for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of earth/stone); = no<br>change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million = cubic feet); Rune will<br>generally decrease.<br><br>At rank 10 and = higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - = creating a<br>'sprite'.<br><br>Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a = sentient to make it permanent:<br> 2EN for permanent but fixed to a = location.<br>* 4EN for permanent and moveable.<br>* Bind a sentient to = create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a location, may not = be<br>affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in = effect to Bound Earth.<br><br>Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of = Binding Air.<br><br><br>Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air = and Earth change to 750 EM General Rituals but<br>that's probably more = hassle for existing characters than it's worth.<br><br>Cheers, = Stephen.<br><br>On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span = style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>> The equation for the amount = of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons<br>> (+500 per = Rank).<br>> A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank = 0, a Rune Mage can<br>> bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff = and 48 tonnes at Rank 20.<br>> A more reasonable amount is 100 = gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it<br>> somewhat congruent = with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20<br>> ritual = will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite = a<br>> bit.<br>><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>-- to = unsubscribe notify mailto:<a = href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> = --<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></td></tr></table></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CBF84F.59B04460-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Jim Arona
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:01:08 +1200
--001636b14767fb62e604a09af229 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 But it is the size of a swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, which, if agressive, is more water than I am happy to run into. On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <ira@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual. > > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of > Jim Arona > Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m. > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > > > > 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage > > On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and > situation of the elements isn't even. A Water mage will typically be > binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships. So > they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' > long with substantial beam. > Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be > significantly smaller. > > I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... > 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their > current volume of binding elements.' > If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. > > From Bernard Hoggins > nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk > > --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: > > > From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> > > > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > > Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM > > This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. > > Air - Can't. > Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). > Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) > Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) > Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' > radius (+15/rank) > Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) > - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) > - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) > - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) > - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) > Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a > limited form of > Binding Elements. > > I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element > at a comparable level. > I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an > Element as the college of > that element. > > > Proposed changes... > > All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for > the Elemental > Colleges, half that for Rune. > This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of > earth/stone); no > change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic > feet); Rune will > generally decrease. > > At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary > intelligence - creating a > 'sprite'. > > Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: > * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. > * 4EN for permanent and moveable. > * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a > location, may not be > affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to > Bound Earth. > > Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. > > > Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM > General Rituals but > that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth. > > Cheers, Stephen. > > On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > > > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > > (+500 per Rank). > > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage > can > > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make > it > > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank > 20 > > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > > bit. > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz<http://mc/compose?to=dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz>-- > > > --001636b14767fb62e604a09af229 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">But it is the size of a swimming pool 1 metre = deep and 7 metres on a side, which, if agressive,=A0 is more water than I a= m happy to run into.<br></font><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 April 2= 011 13:49, Ian Anderson <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:ira@darksof= t.co.nz">ira@darksoft.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, = 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link=3D"blue= " vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-NZ"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style= =3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It is still less than many d= omestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1= 25);">=A0</span></p><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-col= or: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-widt= h: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">F= rom:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"= mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [= mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@= dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Arona<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m.<div><div></div><div class=3D"h= 5"><br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@d= q.sf.org.nz</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements<= /div> </div></span></p></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><p class=3D"MsoNor= mal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span sty= le=3D"font-family: "Georgia","serif";">48 metric tonnes= is a lot of sewerage</span></p> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <<a = href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk= </a>> wrote:</p><table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0">= <tbody><tr> <td style=3D"padding: 0cm; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font= -weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjus= t: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><= span style=3D"font-family: "inherit","serif";">The prob= lem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and situation of = the elements isn't even.=A0 A Water mage will typically be binding wate= r inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships.=A0 So they are de= aling with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' long wit= h substantial beam.<br> Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be sig= nificantly smaller.<br><br>I believe the most important question that has y= et to be asked is....<br>'Can any college do anything which is 'bro= ken' in terms of power with their current volume of binding elements.&#= 39;<br> If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue.<br><br>From Bernard= Hoggins<br><a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">nevyn= 0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a><br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <i><<a= href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net" target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a= >></i></b> wrote:</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "inherit",&quo= t;serif";"><br>From: Stephen Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@akl= nz.net" target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>></span></p><div><p clas= s=3D"MsoNormal"> <span style=3D"font-family: "inherit","serif";"><br>Sub= ject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:dq@d= q.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a></span></p></div><p class= =3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "inherit","serif";">Receive= d: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM</span></p><div><div><div><p class=3D"Ms= oNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: "inherit","serif";= ">This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don&= #39;t.<br> <br>Air - Can't.<br>Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk).<br>= Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk)<br>Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual= ) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<br>Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, a= ll water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank)<br> Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual)<br>- Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk)<br>- Earth = - 500 lbs (+500/rk)<br>- Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk)<br>- Water - 500 ga= llons (+500/rk)<br>Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic = feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of<br> Binding Elements.<br><br>I think that every Elemental College should be abl= e to bind their Element at a comparable level.<br>I don't think that an= y other college should be as good at Binding an Element as the college of<b= r> that element.<br><br><br>Proposed changes...<br><br>All Elemental Binding t= o be based on Volume.=A0 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental<br>Colleg= es, half that for Rune.<br>This will be an increase for Earth (amount of in= crease depends on type of earth/stone); no<br> change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic fee= t); Rune will<br>generally decrease.<br><br>At rank 10 and higher Elem. Col= leges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a<br>'sprit= e'.<br> <br>Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent:<br>* = 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location.<br>* 4EN for permanent and movea= ble.<br>* Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permane= nt, fixed to a location, may not be<br> affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Boun= d Earth.<br><br>Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air.<br><br><b= r>Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM = General Rituals but<br> that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth= .<br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br><br>On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona= wrote:</span></p></div></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-b= ottom: 12pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: "inherit","serif";">> Th= e equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons<br>&= gt; (+500 per Rank).<br>> A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means th= at at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can<br> > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20.<= br>> A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will= make it<br>> somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be = bound. A Rank 20<br> > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite= a<br>> bit.<br>><br><br></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"= ><span style=3D"font-family: "inherit","serif";">-- to = unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq.s= f.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --</span></p> </div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><= /div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br> --001636b14767fb62e604a09af229-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Ian Wood
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:11:19 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CBF852.547E2130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 150,000 ep and 4 years of time to control 50 tons of water. Seems a small return on such a ludicrous investment. There are better uses of time and experience than this discussion. Ian _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim Arona Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 2:01 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements But it is the size of a swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, which, if agressive, is more water than I am happy to run into. On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <ira@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual. From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim Arona Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and situation of the elements isn't even. A Water mage will typically be binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships. So they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' long with substantial beam. Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be significantly smaller. I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their current volume of binding elements.' If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. From Bernard Hoggins nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. Air - Can't. Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank) Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of Binding Elements. I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element at a comparable level. I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Element as the college of that element. Proposed changes... All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental Colleges, half that for Rune. This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of earth/stone); no change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic feet); Rune will generally decrease. At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a 'sprite'. Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. * 4EN for permanent and moveable. * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a location, may not be affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Bound Earth. Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM General Rituals but that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth.. Cheers, Stephen. On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > (+500 per Rank). > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20 > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > bit. > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz <http://mc/compose?to=dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz> -- _____ _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CBF852.547E2130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- / Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Georgia; panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;} / Style Definitions / p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p.avgcert, li.avgcert, div.avgcert {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>150,000 ep and 4 years of time to = control 50 tons of water.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Seems a small return on such a = ludicrous investment.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There are better uses of time and experience than this discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ian<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span = style=3D'font-weight: bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April = 2011 2:01 p.m.<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Rune</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>: Binding Elements</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 = face=3DGeorgia><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>But it is the size of a = swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, which, if agressive,  is = more water than I am happy to run into.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <<a href=3D"mailto:ira@darksoft.co.nz">ira@darksoft.co.nz</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>It is still less than many = domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual.</span></font><span = lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><span = lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext = 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm; border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a = href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April = 2011 1:18 p.m.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt'><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Rune</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>: Binding Elements<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage</span></font><span = lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>On 11 April 2011 12:24, <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Bernard = Hoggins</st1:PersonName> <<a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" = target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 = cellpadding=3D0> <tr> <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 0cm;font-style:inherit;font-variant: = inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-si= ze-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit'> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The = problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and situation of the elements isn't even.  A Water mage will typically be binding = water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships.  So they = are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' long = with substantial beam.<br> Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to = be significantly smaller.<br> <br> I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked = is....<br> 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with = their current volume of binding elements.'<br> If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue.<br> <br> From <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Bernard Hoggins</st1:PersonName><br> <a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" = target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a><br> <br> --- On <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen = Martin <i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'><<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net" target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>></span></i></span></b> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> From: Stephen Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net" = target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>= <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> Subject: Re: [dq] <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName = w:st=3D"on">Rune</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>: = Binding Elements<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't.<br> <br> Air - Can't.<br> Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk).<br> Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk)<br> Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<br> Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' = radius (+15/rank)<br> Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual)<br> - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk)<br> - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk)<br> - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk)<br> - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk)<br> Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) = - a limited form of<br> Binding Elements.<br> <br> I think that every <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName = w:st=3D"on">Elemental</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> should = be able to bind their Element at a comparable level.<br> I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an = Element as the college of<br> that element.<br> <br> <br> Proposed changes...<br> <br> All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume.  10 cubic feet = (+10/rk) for the Elemental<br> Colleges, half that for Rune.<br> This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type = of earth/stone); no<br> change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million = cubic feet); Rune will<br> generally decrease.<br> <br> At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a<br> 'sprite'.<br> <br> Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent:<br> 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location.<br> * 4EN for permanent and moveable.<br> * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed = to a location, may not be<br> affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to = Bound Earth.<br> <br> Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air.<br> <br> <br> Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 = EM General Rituals but<br> that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's = worth..<br> <br> Cheers, Stephen.<br> <br> On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>> The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons<br> > (+500 per Rank).<br> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a = Rune Mage can<br> > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank = 20.<br> > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which = will make it<br> > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. = A Rank 20<br> > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still = quite a<br> > bit.<br> ><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-- = to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </td> </tr> </table> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" noshade color=3D"#aca899" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <p class=3Davgcert color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>No virus found in this message.<br> Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: = 04/10/11<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CBF852.547E2130-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Jim Arona
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:14:14 +1200
--001636b14767d6ad9b04a09b21db Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There has been NO discussion on this list for months. If the only thing we were discussing were the parlous state of our national cricket team, it would have been productive. However, if people think that the current amount of water bound is fine, I am not going to argue. On 11 April 2011 14:11, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > 150,000 ep and 4 years of time to control 50 tons of water. > > Seems a small return on such a ludicrous investment. > > > > There are better uses of time and experience than this discussion. > > > > Ian > > > ------------------------------ > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of > Jim Arona > Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 2:01 p.m. > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > > > > But it is the size of a swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, > which, if agressive, is more water than I am happy to run into. > > On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <ira@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: > > It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual. > > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of > Jim Arona > Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m. > > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > > > > 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage > > On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and > situation of the elements isn't even. A Water mage will typically be > binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships. So > they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' > long with substantial beam. > Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be > significantly smaller. > > I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... > 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their > current volume of binding elements.' > If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. > > From Bernard Hoggins > nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk > > --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: > > > From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> > > > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > > Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM > > This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. > > Air - Can't. > Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). > Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) > Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) > Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' > radius (+15/rank) > Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) > - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) > - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) > - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) > - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) > Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a > limited form of > Binding Elements. > > I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element > at a comparable level. > I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an > Element as the college of > that element. > > > Proposed changes... > > All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for > the Elemental > Colleges, half that for Rune. > This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of > earth/stone); no > change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic > feet); Rune will > generally decrease. > > At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary > intelligence - creating a > 'sprite'. > > Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: > * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. > * 4EN for permanent and moveable. > * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a > location, may not be > affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to > Bound Earth. > > Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. > > > Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM > General Rituals but > that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth.. > > Cheers, Stephen. > > On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > > > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > > (+500 per Rank). > > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage > can > > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make > it > > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank > 20 > > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > > bit. > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz<http://mc/compose?to=dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz>-- > > > > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 > --001636b14767d6ad9b04a09b21db Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">There has been NO discussion on this list for = months. <br>If the only thing we were discussing were the parlous state of = our national cricket team, it would have been productive.<br>However, if pe= ople think that the current amount of water bound is fine, I am not going t= o argue.<br> </font><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 April 2011 14:11, Ian Wood <spa= n dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtra.co= .nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"bor= der-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-= left: 1ex;"> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" lang=3D"EN-US"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">150,000 ep and= 4 years of time to control 50 tons of water.</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Seems a small = return on such a ludicrous investment.</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">=A0</span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">There are bett= er uses of time and experience than this discussion.</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">=A0</span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Ian</span></fo= nt></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span= style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">=A0</span></fo= nt></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><fo= nt face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> <hr width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" size=3D"2"> </span></font></div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"f= ont-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font= ></b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-= family: Tahoma;"> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.o= rg.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank= ">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">On Behal= f Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April 201= 1 2:01 p.m.<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@d= q.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Rune Col= lege: Binding Elements</div></div></span></font></p> </div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 12pt;">=A0</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Georgia= " size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Georgia;">But it = is the size of a swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, which, if agressive,=A0 is more water than I am happy to run into.</span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 12pt;">On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <<a href=3D"= mailto:ira@darksoft.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">ira@darksoft.co.nz</a>> wro= te:</span></font></p> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman" siz= e=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang=3D"E= N-NZ">It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual.</span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></sp= an></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman" siz= e=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang=3D"E= N-NZ">=A0</span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p> <div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-color: -moz-use-text-co= lor; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span s= tyle=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font s= ize=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.s= f.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"ma= ilto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b= ><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April 201= 1 1:18 p.m.</span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 10pt;"><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:dq@d= q.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Rune Col= lege: Binding Elements</span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 12pt;" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Georgia= " size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Georgia;" lang=3D= "EN-NZ">48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage</span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span= ></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 12pt;" lang=3D"EN-NZ">On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <<a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yaho= o.co.uk</a>> wrote:</span></font></p> <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"> <tbody><tr> <td style=3D"padding: 0cm; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; fo= nt-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adj= ust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span st= yle=3D"font-size: 12pt;">The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and situation of the elements isn't even.=A0 A Water mage will typically be binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships.=A0 So they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' long= with substantial beam.<br> Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be significantly smaller.<br> <br> I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is....<br> 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of po= wer with their current volume of binding elements.'<br> If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue.<br> <br> From Bernard Hoggins<br> <a href=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.= co.uk</a><br> <br> --- On <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin= <i><span style=3D"font-style: italic;"><<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@akln= z.net" target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>></span></i></span></b> w= rote:</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span st= yle=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br> From: Stephen Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net" target=3D"= _blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span st= yle=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz<= /a></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Times= New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM</span></font></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span st= yle=3D"font-size: 12pt;">This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't.<br> <br> Air - Can't.<br> Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk).<br> Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk)<br> Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<br> Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10&#39= ; radius (+15/rank)<br> Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual)<br> - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk)<br> - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk)<br> - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk)<br> - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk)<br> Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - = a limited form of<br> Binding Elements.<br> <br> I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element at a comparable level.<br> I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an = Element as the college of<br> that element.<br> <br> <br> Proposed changes...<br> <br> All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume.=A0 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) fo= r the Elemental<br> Colleges, half that for Rune.<br> This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of earth/stone); no<br> change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic feet); Rune will<br> generally decrease.<br> <br> At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a<br> 'sprite'.<br> <br> Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent:<br> * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location.<br> * 4EN for permanent and moveable.<br> * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fi= xed to a location, may not be<br> affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Bo= und Earth.<br> <br> Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air.<br> <br> <br> Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM General Rituals but<br> that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's wor= th..<br> <br> Cheers, Stephen.<br> <br> On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote:</span></font></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Times= New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">> The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons<br> > (+500 per Rank).<br> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune M= age can<br> > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20= .<br> > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will = make it<br> > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A R= ank 20<br> > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still qui= te a<br> > bit.<br> ></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span st= yle=3D"font-size: 12pt;">-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq= .sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --</span></font></p> </div> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 12pt;" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Times N= ew Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">=A0</span></font></p> </div></div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D= "center"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size= : 12pt;"> <hr width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" size=3D"2"> </span></font></div><div class=3D"im"> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><fo= nt face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> <hr width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" color=3D"#aca899" noshade size=3D"1"> </span></font></div> <p color=3D"#000000"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style= =3D"font-size: 12pt;">No virus found in this message.<br> Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" target=3D"_blank">www.avg.c= om</a><br> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11</sp= an></font></p> </div></div> </div> </blockquote></div><br> --001636b14767d6ad9b04a09b21db-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:40:20 +1200
It seems it all depends on expectations. I no more expect a Rk 20 Water Mage to be able to bind a Lake or Seas than I expect an Earth Mage to bind an Island or Continent. At that level of magic you get referred to as a god not an adventurer. At rk 20 Binding all of the water your ship is in contact with is achievable, binding all water within 310' is a little excessive. Of course it also depends on what you can do with a Bound Element, this varies by GM from completely pitiful and pointless to game-breakingly horrific. If what you can do with it is pitiful, then you can bind as much as you like. If it is at the horrific end of the scale then even 1 cubic foot is nasty. Most GMs fall somewhere in between, they'll allow you to use your bound element in creative and useful ways but they won't allow you to use it to automatically win every encounter. Cubic volume seems the easiest measure to apply to all elements, most of us can work out what it means without having to refer to tables of specific weights or get calculators out. Cheers, Stephen. On Mon, April 11, 2011 1:49 pm, Ian Anderson wrote: > It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual. > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim > Arona > Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m. > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > > 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage > > On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and > situation of the elements isn't even. A Water mage will typically be > binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships. So > they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' > long with substantial beam. > Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be > significantly smaller. > > I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... > 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their > current volume of binding elements.' > If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. > >>From Bernard Hoggins > nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk > > --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: > > > From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> > > > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > > Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM > > This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. > > Air - Can't. > Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). > Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) > Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) > Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' > radius (+15/rank) > Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) > - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) > - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) > - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) > - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) > Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a > limited form of > Binding Elements. > > I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element at > a comparable level. > I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Element > as the college of > that element. > > > Proposed changes... > > All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the > Elemental > Colleges, half that for Rune. > This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of > earth/stone); no > change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic > feet); Rune will > generally decrease. > > At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary > intelligence - creating a > 'sprite'. > > Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: > * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. > * 4EN for permanent and moveable. > * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a > location, may not be > affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Bound > Earth. > > Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. > > > Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM > General Rituals but > that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth. > > Cheers, Stephen. > > On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > >> The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons >> (+500 per Rank). >> A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage > can >> bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. >> A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make > it >> somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20 >> ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a >> bit. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Jim Arona
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:46:04 +1200
--001636b14767a5d34b04a09b9307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ' most of us can work out what it means without having to refer to tables of specific weights or get calculators out.' It's not like the numbers are subject to a lot of change. I don't have a problem with the calculation, I do such things way ahead of time. Nevertheless, a volume measure is simpler and faster. --001636b14767a5d34b04a09b9307 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font style=3D"font-family: georgia,serif;" face=3D"georgia,serif">'</f= ont><span style=3D"font-family: georgia,serif;"> most of us can work out wh= at it means without having to refer to tables of specific weights or get ca= lculators out.'</span><br style=3D"font-family: georgia,serif;"> <span style=3D"font-family: georgia,serif;">It's not like the numbers a= re subject to a lot of change. I don't have a problem with the calculat= ion, I do such things way ahead of time. </span><br style=3D"font-family: g= eorgia,serif;"> <span style=3D"font-family: georgia,serif;">Nevertheless, a volume measure = </span><b style=3D"font-family: georgia,serif;">is</b><span style=3D"font-f= amily: georgia,serif;"> simpler and faster.</span><br> --001636b14767a5d34b04a09b9307-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Ian Wood
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:36:50 +1200 (NZST)
--0-48770614-1302493010=:78959 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That is a good point Jim, =A0 It is just that i believe there are much bigger issues than the volume of w= ater a rune mage can bind. It really does seem rather trivial to me (not to= you, granted). =A0 I think Stephen has raised a useful summary on the variation in volumes (ai= r =3D none directly, although Bernard pointed out that air mages can contro= l air elementals that can bind air). Even this seems trivial. =A0 Ian =A0 --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: From: Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Monday, 11, April, 2011, 2:14 PM There has been NO discussion on this list for months.=20 If the only thing we were discussing were the parlous state of our national= cricket team, it would have been productive. However, if people think that the current amount of water bound is fine, I = am not going to argue. On 11 April 2011 14:11, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote: 150,000 ep and 4 years of time to control 50 tons of water. Seems a small return on such a ludicrous investment. =A0 There are better uses of time and experience than this discussion. =A0 Ian =A0 From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim= Arona Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 2:01 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements =A0 But it is the size of a swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, = which, if agressive,=A0 is more water than I am happy to run into. On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <ira@darksoft.co.nz> wrote: It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual. =A0 From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim= Arona Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements =A0 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and situa= tion of the elements isn't even.=A0 A Water mage will typically be binding = water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships.=A0 So they ar= e dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' long wit= h substantial beam. Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be sig= nificantly smaller. I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their= current volume of binding elements.' If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. From Bernard Hoggins nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. Air - Can't. Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' radi= us (+15/rank) Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a = limited form of Binding Elements. I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element a= t a comparable level. I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Elemen= t as the college of that element. Proposed changes... All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume.=A0 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for = the Elemental Colleges, half that for Rune. This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of e= arth/stone); no change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic fee= t); Rune will generally decrease. At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intellig= ence - creating a 'sprite'. Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. * 4EN for permanent and moveable. * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a l= ocation, may not be affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Boun= d Earth. Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM Ge= neral Rituals but that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth.. Cheers, Stephen. On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > (+500 per Rank). > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage c= an > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make = it > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 2= 0 > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > bit. > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- =A0 =A0 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 --0-48770614-1302493010=:78959 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"= top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>That is a good point Jim,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is just that i believe there are much bigger issues than the volume= of water a rune mage can bind. It really does seem rather trivial to me (n= ot to you, granted).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think Stephen has raised a useful summary on the variation in volume= s (air =3D none directly, although Bernard pointed out that air mages can c= ontrol air elementals that can bind air). Even this seems trivial.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ian</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 11/4/11, Jim Arona <I><jim.arona@gmail.com></= I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5= px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com><BR>Su= bject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements<BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>Da= te: Monday, 11, April, 2011, 2:14 PM<BR><BR> <DIV id=3Dyiv1929316691><FONT face=3Dgeorgia,serif>There has been NO discus= sion on this list for months. <BR>If the only thing we were discussing were= the parlous state of our national cricket team, it would have been product= ive.<BR>However, if people think that the current amount of water bound is = fine, I am not going to argue.<BR></FONT><BR> <DIV class=3Dyiv1929316691gmail_quote>On 11 April 2011 14:11, Ian Wood <SPA= N dir=3Dltr><<A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dd= awnhaven@xtra.co.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dawnh= aven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0= pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dyiv1929316691gmail_quote> <DIV lang=3DEN-US> <DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial>= <SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">150,000 ep= and 4 years of time to control 50 tons of water.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial>= <SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Seems a sm= all return on such a ludicrous investment.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial>= <SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SP= AN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial>= <SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">There are = better uses of time and experience than this discussion.</SPAN></FONT></DIV= > <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial>= <SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SP= AN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial>= <SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ian</SPAN>= </FONT></DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial>= <SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SP= AN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal align=3Dce= nter><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt= "> <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><B><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN sty= le=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN>= </FONT></B><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;= FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to= =3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:= dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A> [mailto:<A href=3D"http://= nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofoll= ow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.= org.nz</A>] <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Ji= m Arona<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 11= April 2011 2:01 p.m. <DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=3Dyiv1929316691h5><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</= SPAN></B> <A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq.s= f.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz"= >dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN= ></B> Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements</DIV></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DI= V> <DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=3Dyiv1929316691h5> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size= =3D3 face=3DGeorgia><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">B= ut it is the size of a swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, w= hich, if agressive,  is more water than I am happy to run into.</SPAN>= </FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <<A = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dira@darksoft.co.nz" = rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:ira@darksoft.co.nz">ira@da= rksoft.co.nz</A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT color=3D#1f497d size=3D2 face=3D"Ti= mes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang= =3DEN-NZ>It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 r= itual.</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ></SPAN></DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT color=3D#1f497d size=3D2 face=3D"Ti= mes New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang= =3DEN-NZ> </SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ></SPAN></DIV> <DIV style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING= -BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><B><FONT size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman= "><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B= ><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href=3D"http://nz.mc961= ..mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow targe= t=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</= A> [mailto:<A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-own= er@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dq-owner@= dq.sf.org.nz">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>] <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bol= d">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Jim Arona<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold= ">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:= </SPAN></B> <A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq= ..sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.n= z">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SP= AN></B> Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></= DIV></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3DEN-NZ> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size= =3D3 face=3DGeorgia><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" l= ang=3DEN-NZ>48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang= =3DEN-NZ></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3DEN-NZ>On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard= Hoggins <<A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dnevy= n0ad@yahoo.co.uk" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad= @yahoo.co.uk">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; PA= DDING-TOP: 0cm; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit" vAlign=3D= top> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The problem with trying to make them all equ= al is that the useage and situation of the elements isn't even.  A Wat= er mage will typically be binding water inside a larger body of water, when= dealing with ships.  So they are dealing with objects that hold up to= a hundred tons and are 100' long with substantial beam.<BR>Earth mages how= ever are dealing with land based things which tend to be significantly smal= ler.<BR><BR>I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked = is....<BR>'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power = with their current volume of binding elements.'<BR>If the answer is no, the= n uneveness isn't an issue.<BR><BR>From Bernard Hoggins<BR><A href=3D"http:= //nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dnevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" rel=3Dnofol= low target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</A><BR><BR>--= - On <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <I><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic"><<A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo= ..com/mc/compose?to=3Dstephenm@aklnz.net" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank yma= ilto=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@aklnz.net</A>></SPAN></I></S= PAN></B> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>From: Stephen Martin <<A href=3D"http= ://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dstephenm@aklnz.net" rel=3Dnofoll= ow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@aklnz.net= </A>></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding = Elements<BR>To: <A href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dd= q@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.o= rg.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size= =3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Received: Mon= day, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">This made me curious about how the other Bin= d Elements compare, they don't.<BR><BR>Air - Can't.<BR>Earth (500 EM Spec R= itual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk).<BR>Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+1= 0/rk)<BR>Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<BR>Water (750 EM Gen= Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank)<BR>= Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual)<BR>- Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk)<BR>- Earth = - 500 lbs (+500/rk)<BR>- Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk)<BR>- Water - 500 ga= llons (+500/rk)<BR>Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic = feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of<BR>Binding Elements.<BR><BR>I think that= every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element at a comparab= le level.<BR>I don't think that any other college should be as good at Bind= ing an Element as the college of<BR>that element.<BR><BR><BR>Proposed changes...<BR><BR>All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume.  10 cu= bic feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental<BR>Colleges, half that for Rune.<BR>Thi= s will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of eart= h/stone); no<BR>change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 m= illion cubic feet); Rune will<BR>generally decrease.<BR><BR>At rank 10 and = higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating= a<BR>'sprite'.<BR><BR>Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make = it permanent:<BR>* 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location.<BR>* 4EN for = permanent and moveable.<BR>* Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that= is permanent, fixed to a location, may not be<BR>affected by nor passed th= rough by most magic - equivalent in effect to Bound Earth.<BR><BR>Air gains= a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air.<BR><BR><BR>Ideally Fire should go = up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM General Rituals but<BR>that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth= ...<BR><BR>Cheers, Stephen.<BR><BR>On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Aron= a wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size= =3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">> The equa= tion for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons<BR>> (+= 500 per Rank).<BR>> A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at = Rank 0, a Rune Mage can<BR>> bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff= and 48 tonnes at Rank 20.<BR>> A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons = (+100 per Rank), which will make it<BR>> somewhat congruent with the amo= unt of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20<BR>> ritual will bind about = 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a<BR>> bit.<BR>></SPA= N></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<A href=3D"h= ttp://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_bla= nk>dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A> --</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></TD></TR>= </TBODY></TABLE></DIV> <P class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=3DEN-NZ> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV= ></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal><FONT size= =3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN>= </FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal align=3Dce= nter><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt= "> <HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=3Dyiv1929316691im> <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3Dyiv1929316691MsoNormal align=3Dce= nter><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt= "> <HR align=3Dcenter color=3D#aca899 SIZE=3D1 width=3D"100%" noShade> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt= ">No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A href=3D"http://www= ..avg.com/" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 10.0.= 1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11</SPAN></FONT></DI= V></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></t= able> --0-48770614-1302493010=:78959-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Jim Arona
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:44:25 +1200
--0016e65dc8ec5ad53604a09c6492 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has backed up the toilets in your castle? On 11 April 2011 15:36, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > That is a good point Jim, > > It is just that i believe there are much bigger issues than the volume of > water a rune mage can bind. It really does seem rather trivial to me (not to > you, granted). > > I think Stephen has raised a useful summary on the variation in volumes > (air = none directly, although Bernard pointed out that air mages can > control air elementals that can bind air). Even this seems trivial. > > Ian > > > --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: > > > From: Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Date: Monday, 11, April, 2011, 2:14 PM > > > There has been NO discussion on this list for months. > If the only thing we were discussing were the parlous state of our national > cricket team, it would have been productive. > However, if people think that the current amount of water bound is fine, I > am not going to argue. > > On 11 April 2011 14:11, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> > > wrote: > > 150,000 ep and 4 years of time to control 50 tons of water. > > Seems a small return on such a ludicrous investment. > > > > There are better uses of time and experience than this discussion. > > > > Ian > > > ------------------------------ > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz>[mailto: > dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz>] > On Behalf Of Jim Arona > Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 2:01 p.m. > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq@dq.sf.org.nz> > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > > > > But it is the size of a swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, > which, if agressive, is more water than I am happy to run into. > > On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <ira@darksoft.co.nz<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ira@darksoft.co.nz>> > wrote: > > It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual. > > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz<http://nz.mc961..mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz>[mailto: > dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz>] > On Behalf Of Jim Arona > Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m. > > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq@dq..sf.org.nz> > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > > > > 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage > > On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk>> > wrote: > > The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and > situation of the elements isn't even. A Water mage will typically be > binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships. So > they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' > long with substantial beam. > Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be > significantly smaller. > > I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... > 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their > current volume of binding elements.' > If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. > > From Bernard Hoggins > nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> > > --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo..com/mc/compose?to=stephenm@aklnz.net> > > wrote: > > > From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=stephenm@aklnz.net> > > > > > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq@dq.sf.org.nz> > > Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM > > This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. > > Air - Can't. > Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). > Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) > Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) > Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' > radius (+15/rank) > Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) > - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) > - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) > - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) > - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) > Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a > limited form of > Binding Elements. > > I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element > at a comparable level. > I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an > Element as the college of > that element. > > > Proposed changes... > > All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for > the Elemental > Colleges, half that for Rune. > This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of > earth/stone); no > change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic > feet); Rune will > generally decrease. > > At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary > intelligence - creating a > 'sprite'. > > Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: > * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. > * 4EN for permanent and moveable. > * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a > location, may not be > affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to > Bound Earth. > > Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. > > > Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM > General Rituals but > that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth... > > Cheers, Stephen. > > On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > > > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > > (+500 per Rank). > > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage > can > > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make > it > > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank > 20 > > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > > bit. > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz<http://mc/compose?to=dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz>-- > > > > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www..avg.com/> > Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 > > > --0016e65dc8ec5ad53604a09c6492 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif">Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindi= ctive rune mage has backed up the toilets in your castle?<br></font><br><di= v class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 April 2011 15:36, Ian Wood <span dir=3D"ltr">= <<a href=3D"mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</a>></s= pan> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, = 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><table border=3D"= 0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td style=3D"font-family:= inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit;= font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-= stretch: inherit;" valign=3D"top"> <div>That is a good point Jim,</div> <div>=A0</div> <div>It is just that i believe there are much bigger issues than the volume= of water a rune mage can bind. It really does seem rather trivial to me (n= ot to you, granted).</div> <div>=A0</div> <div>I think Stephen has raised a useful summary on the variation in volume= s (air =3D none directly, although Bernard pointed out that air mages can c= ontrol air elementals that can bind air). Even this seems trivial.</div> <div>=A0</div> <div>Ian</div> <div>=A0</div> <div><br>--- On <b>Mon, 11/4/11, Jim Arona <i><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.aro= na@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<= br></div> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left:= 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><br>From: Jim Arona <<a href=3D"mailto:jim.aron= a@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>><div class=3D"im"= ><br> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:d= q@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br></div>Date: Monday= , 11, April, 2011, 2:14 PM<div class=3D"im"><br><br> <div><font face=3D"georgia,serif">There has been NO discussion on this list= for months. <br>If the only thing we were discussing were the parlous stat= e of our national cricket team, it would have been productive.<br>However, = if people think that the current amount of water bound is fine, I am not go= ing to argue.<br> </font><br> <div>On 11 April 2011 14:11, Ian Wood <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"http= ://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddawnhaven@xtra.co.nz" rel=3D"nof= ollow" target=3D"_blank">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt= 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div lang=3D"EN-US"> <div> <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-famil= y: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">150,000 ep and 4 years of time to = control 50 tons of water.</span></font></p></div> <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-famil= y: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">Seems a small return on such a lud= icrous investment.</span></font></p></div> <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-famil= y: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">=A0</span></font></p></blockquote>= </div> <p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-famil= y: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">There are better uses of time and = experience than this discussion.</span></font></p></div> </div><p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font= -family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">=A0</span></font> </p><p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-f= amily: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">Ian</span></font> </p><p><font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-f= amily: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">=A0</span></font> </p><div> <div style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Times New= Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> <hr width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" size=3D"2"> </span></font></div> <p><b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; = font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face=3D"T= ahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"> <a= href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org.= nz" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a= href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org.= nz" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span = style=3D"font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April 201= 1 2:01 p.m. <div class=3D"im"><div> <div></div> <div><br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"ht= tp://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3D"nofoll= ow" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br><b><span style=3D"font-weight:= bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements</div> </div></div></span></font></p></div> <div> <div></div> <div> <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt= ;">=A0</span></font></p></div> <p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Georgia" size=3D"3"><span s= tyle=3D"font-family: Georgia; font-size: 12pt;">But it is the size of a swi= mming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, which, if agressive,=A0 is = more water than I am happy to run into.</span></font></p> </div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"> <div> <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt= ;">On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <<a href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail= .yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dira@darksoft.co.nz" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_= blank">ira@darksoft.co.nz</a>> wrote:</span></font></p> </div> <div> <div> <p><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style= =3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;" lang=3D"EN-NZ">It is still l= ess than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual.</span></font><s= pan lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p> </div> <p><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style= =3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></f= ont><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p></div> <div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-color: -moz-use-text-co= lor; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"> <p><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 1= 0pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2"><span styl= e=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> <a href=3D"http://nz.mc961..mail.yahoo.com/mc/compo= se?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@= dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compo= se?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@= dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span= ></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April 201= 1 1:18 p.m.</span></font></p></div> <div> <div> <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt= ;"><br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"http= ://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq..sf.org.nz" rel=3D"nofollo= w" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Rune Col= lege: Binding Elements</span></font></p></div></div> <div> <div> <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt= ;" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></font></p></div> <p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Georgia" size=3D"3"><span s= tyle=3D"font-family: Georgia; font-size: 12pt;" lang=3D"EN-NZ">48 metric to= nnes is a lot of sewerage</span></font><span lang=3D"EN-NZ"></span></p></di= v> <div> <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt= ;" lang=3D"EN-NZ">On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <<a href=3D"ht= tp://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dnevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk" rel=3D"n= ofollow" target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a>> wrote:</span></font= ></p> </div> <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"> <tbody> <tr> <td style=3D"padding: 0cm; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit= ;" valign=3D"top"> <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt= ;">The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and si= tuation of the elements isn't even.=A0 A Water mage will typically be b= inding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships.=A0 So = they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100&#3= 9; long with substantial beam.<br> Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be sig= nificantly smaller.<br><br>I believe the most important question that has y= et to be asked is....<br>'Can any college do anything which is 'bro= ken' in terms of power with their current volume of binding elements.&#= 39;<br> If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue.<br><br>From Bernard= Hoggins<br><a href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dnevyn= 0ad@yahoo.co.uk" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a= ><br> <br>--- On <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Mart= in <i><span style=3D"font-style: italic;"><<a href=3D"http://nz.mc961.ma= il.yahoo..com/mc/compose?to=3Dstephenm@aklnz.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target= =3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>></span></i></span></b> wrote:</span><= /font> </p><p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt;"><br>From: Stephen Martin <<a href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.c= om/mc/compose?to=3Dstephenm@aklnz.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">s= tephenm@aklnz.net</a>></span></font> </p><div> <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt= ;"><br>Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements<br>To: <a href=3D"h= ttp://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3D"nofol= low" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a></span></font></p> </div> <p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"= ><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 A= M</span></font> </p><div> <div> <div> <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt= ;">This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don= 't.<br><br>Air - Can't.<br>Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+5= 00/rk).<br> Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk)<br>Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual= ) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<br>Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, a= ll water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank)<br>Rune (500 EM Spec Ritua= l)<br> - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk)<br>- Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk)<br>- Fire= - 10 foot radius (+15/rk)<br>- Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk)<br>Binder (40= 0 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a limited fo= rm of<br> Binding Elements.<br><br>I think that every Elemental College should be abl= e to bind their Element at a comparable level.<br>I don't think that an= y other college should be as good at Binding an Element as the college of<b= r> that element.<br><br><br>Proposed changes...<br><br>All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume.=A0 10 cubic= feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental<br>Colleges, half that for Rune.<br>This w= ill be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of earth/s= tone); no<br> change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic fee= t); Rune will<br>generally decrease.<br><br>At rank 10 and higher Elem. Col= leges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a<br>'sprit= e'.<br> <br>Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent:<br>* = 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location.<br>* 4EN for permanent and movea= ble.<br>* Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permane= nt, fixed to a location, may not be<br> affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Boun= d Earth.<br><br>Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air.<br><br><b= r>Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM = General Rituals but<br>that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it&#39= ;s worth...<br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br><br>On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am,= Jim Arona wrote:</span></font></p></div></div></div> <div> <p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"= ><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">> The equation for the amount of water= a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons<br>> (+500 per Rank).<br>> A gal= lon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can<br> > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20.<= br>> A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will= make it<br>> somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be = bound. A Rank 20<br> > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite= a<br>> bit.<br>></span></font></p></div> <div> <p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt= ;">-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-req= uest@dq.sf.org.nz" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.= nz</a> --</span></font></p> </div></td></tr></tbody></table> </div></div><p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"fon= t-size: 12pt;" lang=3D"EN-NZ">=A0</span></font> </p><p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size= =3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">=A0</span></font></p><div class=3D"= im"> <div style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Times New= Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> <hr width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" size=3D"2"> </span></font></div> <div> <div style=3D"text-align: center;" align=3D"center"><font face=3D"Times New= Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> <hr width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" color=3D"#aca899" noshade size=3D"1"> </span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12= pt;">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://= www..avg.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>Versio= n: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11</span></f= ont></div> </div></div></blockquote><br></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote></div><= br> --0016e65dc8ec5ad53604a09c6492-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] DQ Wiki
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:45:25 +1200
The final status update... Backup/replication of the wiki is running and working to spec. The database (content) is synchronised to another site about once a minute, uploaded files are synchronised overnight. The new version of the wiki includes lots of little fixes and enhancements that have minimal impact on us. Of more relevance, I've turned on a few more extensions (haven't tested them all yet). FCKeditor - WYSIWYG editing of page updates. After clicking to edit a section or page, look for the links to "Rich Editor". Directly using the wiki tags gives you more precise control, but if you can't be bothered learning the syntax and just want to point and click... There's a lot of options in "my preferences" related to the Rich Editor. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FCKeditor_%28by_FCKeditor_and_Wikia%29 PageCSS - You can now add <css> </css> tags to a page to add page specific css rules. ImageMap - You can now add ImageMaps to images. E.g. Define one for the WK Map so you can click on Aquila and go to the Aquila page. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMap Footnote - You can add <footnote> </footnote> tags. Extended Parser Functions - they enable all sorts of clever stuff I'm not going to try to summarise. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions CategoryTree - Supposed to display categorised pages in a dynamic tree. Either I'm misunderstanding or misusing this as it's not living up to my expectations. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CategoryTree Cheers, Stephen. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Ian Wood
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:50:08 +1200 (NZST)
I agree that volume is easiest to control, but that doesnt mean it has to be even across the colleges. Quick note, a 5 foot hex has a surface area of about 20 sq ft. (19.16 actually but who really cares?). If the colleges used a multiple of 20 cu feet +20/rank then you can bind one hex to a height of 1 foot (+1 hex or +1 foot height per rank). or a wall 20 feet long by one foot wide by one foot high. Being a ritual, and for the sake of brevity i assume the description will not limit the volume to a continuous blob, or to a minimum thickness? I want GMs to differ within limits, that is the beauty of the guild, sort of like sentencing guidelines for Judges. I know we can rationalise anything we want (from creating a pointless waste of ep to a 'world domination event', but to me a 750 em sk ritual should be awesome (or aweful, as in creating a lot of awe = awe inspiring?). Ian --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: > From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Date: Monday, 11, April, 2011, 2:40 PM > It seems it all depends on > expectations. > > I no more expect a Rk 20 Water Mage to be able to bind a > Lake or Seas than I expect an Earth > Mage to bind an Island or Continent.� At that level of > magic you get referred to as a god not > an adventurer. > > At rk 20 Binding all of the water your ship is in contact > with is achievable, binding all > water within 310' is a little excessive. > > > Of course it also depends on what you can do with a Bound > Element, this varies by GM from > completely pitiful and pointless to game-breakingly > horrific. > If what you can do with it is pitiful, then you can bind as > much as you like. > If it is at the horrific end of the scale then even 1 cubic > foot is nasty. > > Most GMs fall somewhere in between, they'll allow you to > use your bound element in creative > and useful ways but they won't allow you to use it to > automatically win every encounter. > > Cubic volume seems the easiest measure to apply to all > elements, most of us can work out what > it means without having to refer to tables of specific > weights or get calculators out. > > > Cheers, Stephen. > > On Mon, April 11, 2011 1:49 pm, Ian Anderson wrote: > > It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for > a rank 20 ritual. > > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz > [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] > On Behalf Of Jim > > Arona > > Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m. > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > > > > 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage > > > > On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: > > > > > > The problem with trying to make them all equal is that > the useage and > > situation of the elements isn't even.� A Water > mage will typically be > > binding water inside a larger body of water, when > dealing with ships.� So > > they are dealing with objects that hold up to a > hundred tons and are 100' > > long with substantial beam. > > Earth mages however are dealing with land based things > which tend to be > > significantly smaller. > > > > I believe the most important question that has yet to > be asked is.... > > 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in > terms of power with their > > current volume of binding elements.' > > If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. > > > >>From Bernard Hoggins > > nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk > > > > --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > > > > Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM > > > > This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements > compare, they don't. > > > > Air - Can't. > > Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). > > Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) > > Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) > > Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water > within range? 10' > > radius (+15/rank) > > Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) > > - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) > > - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) > > - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) > > - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) > > Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 > cubic feet (+2/rank) - a > > limited form of > > Binding Elements. > > > > I think that every Elemental College should be able to > bind their Element at > > a comparable level. > > I don't think that any other college should be as good > at Binding an Element > > as the college of > > that element. > > > > > > Proposed changes... > > > > All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume.� 10 > cubic feet (+10/rk) for the > > Elemental > > Colleges, half that for Rune. > > This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase > depends on type of > > earth/stone); no > > change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to > 3.6 million cubic > > feet); Rune will > > generally decrease. > > > > At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with > rudimentary > > intelligence - creating a > > 'sprite'. > > > > Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it > permanent: > > * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. > > * 4EN for permanent and moveable. > > * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is > permanent, fixed to a > > location, may not be > > affected by nor passed through by most magic - > equivalent in effect to Bound > > Earth. > > > > Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. > > > > > > Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and > Earth change to 750 EM > > General Rituals but > > that's probably more hassle for existing characters > than it's worth. > > > > Cheers, Stephen. > > > > On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > > > >> The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage > can bind is 500 gallons > >> (+500 per Rank). > >> A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that > at Rank 0, a Rune Mage > > can > >> bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 > tonnes at Rank 20. > >> A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per > Rank), which will make > > it > >> somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that > could be bound. A Rank 20 > >> ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, > which is still quite a > >> bit. > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz > -- > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Ian Wood
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:54:01 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CBF860.AD597120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOL Yes I still find it trivial, and he will too when I roast his chestnuts over the fire. ;-) Ian _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim Arona Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 3:44 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has backed up the toilets in your castle? On 11 April 2011 15:36, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote: That is a good point Jim, It is just that i believe there are much bigger issues than the volume of water a rune mage can bind. It really does seem rather trivial to me (not to you, granted). I think Stephen has raised a useful summary on the variation in volumes (air = none directly, although Bernard pointed out that air mages can control air elementals that can bind air). Even this seems trivial. Ian --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote: From: Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Monday, 11, April, 2011, 2:14 PM There has been NO discussion on this list for months. If the only thing we were discussing were the parlous state of our national cricket team, it would have been productive. However, if people think that the current amount of water bound is fine, I am not going to argue. On 11 April 2011 14:11, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> > wrote: 150,000 ep and 4 years of time to control 50 tons of water. Seems a small return on such a ludicrous investment. There are better uses of time and experience than this discussion. Ian _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz> [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz> ] On Behalf Of Jim Arona Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 2:01 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq@dq.sf.org.nz> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements But it is the size of a swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, which, if agressive, is more water than I am happy to run into. On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <ira@darksoft.co.nz <http://nz.mc961.mail..yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ira@darksoft.co.nz> > wrote: It is still less than many domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual. From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz <http://nz.mc961..mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz> [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz> ] On Behalf Of Jim Arona Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 1:18 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq@dq..sf.org.nz> Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements 48 metric tonnes is a lot of sewerage On 11 April 2011 12:24, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and situation of the elements isn't even. A Water mage will typically be binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships. So they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' long with substantial beam. Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to be significantly smaller. I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked is.... 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power with their current volume of binding elements.' If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue. From Bernard Hoggins nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk> --- On Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo..com/mc/compose?to=stephenm@aklnz.net> > wrote: From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=stephenm@aklnz.net> > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dq@dq.sf.org.nz> Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 AM This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they don't. Air - Can't. Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank) Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk) - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of Binding Elements. I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element at a comparable level. I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Element as the college of that element. Proposed changes... All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental Colleges, half that for Rune. This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of earth/stone); no change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic feet); Rune will generally decrease. At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a 'sprite'. Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. * 4EN for permanent and moveable. * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed to a location, may not be affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Bound Earth. Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM General Rituals but that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth... Cheers, Stephen. On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona wrote: > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons > (+500 per Rank). > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a Rune Mage can > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which will make it > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank 20 > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is still quite a > bit. > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz <http://mc/compose?to=dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz> -- _____ _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www..avg.com/> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 _____ _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CBF860.AD597120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- / Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Georgia; panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;} @font-face {font-family:inherit; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} / Style Definitions / p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} p.avgcert, li.avgcert, div.avgcert {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>LOL<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Yes I still find it trivial, and he = will too when I roast his chestnuts over the = fire.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ian<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span = style=3D'font-weight: bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April = 2011 3:44 p.m.<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Rune</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>: Binding Elements</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 = face=3DGeorgia><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Ah, but will it appear so = trivial when a vindictive rune mage has backed up the toilets in your = castle?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On 11 April 2011 15:36, Ian Wood <<a href=3D"mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 = cellpadding=3D0> <tr> <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 0cm;font-style:inherit;font-variant: = inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-si= ze-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit'> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'>That is a good point = Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'>It is just that i believe there are much bigger = issues than the volume of water a rune mage can bind. It really does seem = rather trivial to me (not to you, granted).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'>I think Stephen has raised a useful summary on = the variation in volumes (air =3D none directly, although Bernard pointed = out that air mages can control air elementals that can bind air). Even this = seems trivial.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'>Ian<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'><br> --- On <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Mon, 11/4/11, Jim Arona = <i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'><<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>></span></i></span></b> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF = 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'><br> From: Jim Arona <<a href=3D"mailto:jim.arona@gmail.com" = target=3D"_blank">jim.arona@gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p= > <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'><br> Subject: Re: [dq] <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName = w:st=3D"on">Rune</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>: = Binding Elements<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'>Date: Monday, 11, April, 2011, 2:14 = PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 = face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit'><o:p> </o:p></span></= font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 = face=3DGeorgia><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>There has been NO = discussion on this list for months. <br> If the only thing we were discussing were the parlous state of our = national cricket team, it would have been productive.<br> However, if people think that the current amount of water bound is = fine, I am not going to argue.</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family: inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'>On 11 April 2011 14:11, Ian Wood <<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddawnhaven@xtra.co.= nz" target=3D"_blank">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:navy'>150,000 ep and 4 years of time to = control 50 tons of water.</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Seems a small return on such a ludicrous investment.</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font = face=3Dinherit><span style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There are better uses of time and = experience than this discussion.</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family: inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font = face=3Dinherit><span style=3D'font-family:inherit'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ian</span></font><font = face=3Dinherit><span style=3D'font-family:inherit'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font = face=3Dinherit><span style=3D'font-family:inherit'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter = style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <p><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 = face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org= .nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org= .nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span = style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April = 2011 2:01 p.m. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma'><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Rune</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>: Binding Elements<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>But it is the size of a = swimming pool 1 metre deep and 7 metres on a side, which, if agressive,  = is more water than I am happy to run into.</span></font><font = face=3Dinherit><span style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>On 11 April 2011 13:49, Ian Anderson <<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail..yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dira@darksoft.co.n= z" target=3D"_blank">ira@darksoft.co.nz</a>> wrote:</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <div> <p><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>It is still less than many = domestic swimming pools for a rank 20 ritual.</span></font><font = face=3Dinherit><span style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext = 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm; border-color:-moz-use-text-color'> <p><b><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 = face=3Dinherit><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:inherit'> <a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961..mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.or= g.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq-owner@dq.sf.org= .nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b><span = style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jim Arona<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 11 April = 2011 1:18 p.m.</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <div> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq..sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Rune</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>: Binding Elements</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family: inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DGeorgia><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>48 metric tonnes is a = lot of sewerage</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On 11 April 2011 12:24, <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Bernard = Hoggins</st1:PersonName> <<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dnevyn0ad@yahoo.co.= uk" target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a>> = wrote:</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 = cellpadding=3D0> <tr> <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;font-size-adjust: = inherit; font-stretch: inherit'> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The problem with trying to make them all equal is that the useage and = situation of the elements isn't even.  A Water mage will typically be = binding water inside a larger body of water, when dealing with ships.  = So they are dealing with objects that hold up to a hundred tons and are 100' = long with substantial beam.<br> Earth mages however are dealing with land based things which tend to = be significantly smaller.<br> <br> I believe the most important question that has yet to be asked = is....<br> 'Can any college do anything which is 'broken' in terms of power = with their current volume of binding elements.'<br> If the answer is no, then uneveness isn't an issue.<br> <br> From <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Bernard = Hoggins</st1:PersonName><br> <a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dnevyn0ad@yahoo.co.= uk" target=3D"_blank">nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk</a><br> <br> --- On <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Mon, 11/4/11, Stephen = Martin <i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'><<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo..com/mc/compose?to=3Dstephenm@aklnz.ne= t" target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>></span></i></span></b> = wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> From: Stephen Martin <<a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dstephenm@aklnz.net= " target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>> = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> Subject: Re: [dq] <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName = w:st=3D"on">Rune</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>: = Binding Elements<br> To: <a = href=3D"http://nz.mc961.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Received: Monday, 11 April, 2011, 10:40 = AM <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <div> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare, they = don't.<br> <br> Air - Can't.<br> Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk).<br> Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk)<br> Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<br> Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified, all water within range? = 10' radius (+15/rank)<br> Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual)<br> - Air - 1,000 cubic feet (+500/rk)<br> - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk)<br> - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk)<br> - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk)<br> Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet = (+2/rank) - a limited form of<br> Binding Elements.<br> <br> I think that every <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName = w:st=3D"on">Elemental</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> = should be able to bind their Element at a comparable level.<br> I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Element as the college of<br> that element.<br> <br> <br> Proposed changes...<br> <br> All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume.  10 cubic feet = (+10/rk) for the Elemental<br> Colleges, half that for Rune.<br> This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on = type of earth/stone); no<br> change for Fire; a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million = cubic feet); Rune will<br> generally decrease.<br> <br> At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a<br> 'sprite'.<br> <br> Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it = permanent:<br> 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location.<br> * 4EN for permanent and moveable.<br> * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent, fixed = to a location, may not be<br> affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect = to Bound Earth.<br> <br> Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air.<br> <br> <br> Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to = 750 EM General Rituals but<br> that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's = worth...<br> <br> Cheers, Stephen.<br> <br> On Mon, April 11, 2011 12:31 am, Jim Arona = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>> The equation for the amount of water = a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons<br> > (+500 per Rank).<br> > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0, a = Rune Mage can<br> > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at = Rank 20.<br> > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank), which = will make it<br> > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be = bound. A Rank 20<br> > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water, which is = still quite a<br> > bit.<br> ><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Ddq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </td> </tr> </table> </div> </div> <p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'> </span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-family:inherit'> </span></font><font = face=3Dinherit><span style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font><font = face=3Dinherit><span style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter = style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter = style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" noshade color=3D"#aca899" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>No virus found in this message.<br> Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www..avg.com/" = target=3D"_blank">www.avg.com</a><br> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: = 04/10/11</span></font><font face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-family:inherit'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3Dinherit><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; font-family:inherit'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </td> </tr> </table> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" noshade color=3D"#aca899" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <p class=3Davgcert color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>No virus found in this message.<br> Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: = 04/10/11<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CBF860.AD597120-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:02:27 +1200
I'm just waiting for the Air Mage jihad to hunt down the Rune Mages that stole their ritual. On Mon, April 11, 2011 3:54 pm, Ian Wood wrote: > > Yes I still find it trivial, and he will too when I roast his chestnuts over > the fire. > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim > Arona > > Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has backed up > the toilets in your castle? > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Struan Judd
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:05:17 +1200
This has been attempted to be organized (a number of times to be sure) but got distracted by things more important to air mages (butterflies, parrots, clouds, ...) TTFN, On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 16:02, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: > I'm just waiting for the Air Mage jihad to hunt down the Rune Mages that stole their ritual. > > On Mon, April 11, 2011 3:54 pm, Ian Wood wrote: >> >> Yes I still find it trivial, and he will too when I roast his chestnuts over >> the fire. >> >> >> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim >> Arona >> >> Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has backed up >> the toilets in your castle? >> > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Ian Wood
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:14:19 +1200
Hey you just stop using emotive language... :-) Ian -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stephen Martin Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 4:02 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements I'm just waiting for the Air Mage jihad to hunt down the Rune Mages that stole their ritual. On Mon, April 11, 2011 3:54 pm, Ian Wood wrote: > > Yes I still find it trivial, and he will too when I roast his chestnuts over > the fire. > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim > Arona > > Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has backed up > the toilets in your castle? > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Jonathan Bean
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:24:54 +1200
--002215974d7e24571704a09cf50e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Given Jims' post; I no longer think Bind Elements is a useful part of the game. I would rather see them removed/fazzed out. Characters who have it should gain a full refund of: Training Time, Exp and Silver (where needed). This should be put together with a line of adventures along the lines of: "Have you seen our missing Elements" and "The Return of the Bind Elements" and "Fooled you, Bind Elements be gone" etc Jono On 11 April 2011 16:05, Struan Judd <slj@scifi.geek.nz> wrote: > This has been attempted to be organized (a number of times to be sure) > but got distracted by things more important to air mages (butterflies, > parrots, clouds, ...) > > TTFN, > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 16:02, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: > > I'm just waiting for the Air Mage jihad to hunt down the Rune Mages that > stole their ritual. > > > > On Mon, April 11, 2011 3:54 pm, Ian Wood wrote: > >> > >> Yes I still find it trivial, and he will too when I roast his chestnuts > over > >> the fire. > >> > >> > >> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of > Jim > >> Arona > >> > >> Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has backed > up > >> the toilets in your castle? > >> > > > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > -- Kind regards, Jonathan Bean 39 Sackville St, Grey Lynn P: +64 9 376 7309 M: +64 21 917 173 G: jonobean@gmail.com --002215974d7e24571704a09cf50e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><br></div><div>Given Jims' post;=A0</div><div>I no longer think=A0= <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; font-f= amily: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Bind Elements</span>=A0is a us= eful part of the game.=A0</div> <div>I would=A0rather=A0see them removed/fazzed out.</div><div>Characters w= ho have it should gain a full refund of: Training Time, Exp and Silver (whe= re needed).=A0</div><div><br></div><div>This should be put together with a = line of adventures along the lines of:</div> <div>"Have you seen our missing E<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" styl= e=3D"border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: = 13px; ">lements" and "The Return of the=A0</span><span class=3D"A= pple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sa= ns-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Bind Elements" and "Fooled you,=A0</= span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; f= ont-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Bind Elements be gone&quo= t;</span></div> <div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; f= ont-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">etc</span></div><div><spa= n class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; font-famil= y: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br> </span></div><div>Jono</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div= class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 April 2011 16:05, Struan Judd <span dir=3D"ltr= "><<a href=3D"mailto:slj@scifi.geek.nz" target=3D"_blank">slj@scifi.geek= .nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">This has been attempted to be organized (a n= umber of times to be sure)<br> but got distracted by things more important to air mages (butterflies,<br> parrots, clouds, ...)<br> <br> TTFN,<br> <div><div></div><div><br> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 16:02, Stephen Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:stephen= m@aklnz.net" target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>> wrote:<br> > I'm just waiting for the Air Mage jihad to hunt down the Rune Mage= s that stole their ritual.<br> ><br> > On Mon, April 11, 2011 3:54 pm, Ian Wood wrote:<br> >><br> >> Yes I still find it trivial, and he will too when I roast his ches= tnuts over<br> >> the fire.<br> >><br> >><br> >> From: <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">d= q-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" t= arget=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] On Behalf Of Jim<br> >> Arona<br> >><br> >> Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has = backed up<br> >> the toilets in your castle?<br> >><br> ><br> ><br> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org= .nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br> ><br> <br> <br> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Kind regard= s,<br><br>Jonathan Bean<div>39 Sackville St, Grey Lynn</div><div>P: +64 9 3= 76 7309<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com" ta= rget=3D"_blank">jonobean@gmail.com</a></div> <br> </div> --002215974d7e24571704a09cf50e-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Jim Arona
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:27:10 +1200
--001636b147673f6e1c04a09cfdd8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 <sigh> On 11 April 2011 16:24, Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote: > > Given Jims' post; > I no longer think Bind Elements is a useful part of the game. > I would rather see them removed/fazzed out. > Characters who have it should gain a full refund of: Training Time, Exp and > Silver (where needed). > > This should be put together with a line of adventures along the lines of: > "Have you seen our missing Elements" and "The Return of the Bind Elements" > and "Fooled you, Bind Elements be gone" > etc > > Jono > > > > > On 11 April 2011 16:05, Struan Judd <slj@scifi.geek.nz> wrote: > >> This has been attempted to be organized (a number of times to be sure) >> but got distracted by things more important to air mages (butterflies, >> parrots, clouds, ...) >> >> TTFN, >> >> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 16:02, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: >> > I'm just waiting for the Air Mage jihad to hunt down the Rune Mages that >> stole their ritual. >> > >> > On Mon, April 11, 2011 3:54 pm, Ian Wood wrote: >> >> >> >> Yes I still find it trivial, and he will too when I roast his chestnuts >> over >> >> the fire. >> >> >> >> >> >> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf >> Of Jim >> >> Arona >> >> >> >> Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has >> backed up >> >> the toilets in your castle? >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- >> > >> >> >> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- >> > > > > -- > Kind regards, > > Jonathan Bean > 39 Sackville St, Grey Lynn > P: +64 9 376 7309 > M: +64 21 917 173 > G: jonobean@gmail.com > > --001636b147673f6e1c04a09cfdd8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <font face=3D"georgia,serif"><sigh><br></font><br><div class=3D"gmail= _quote">On 11 April 2011 16:24, Jonathan Bean <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>= <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, = 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div><br></div><div>Given Jims' post;=A0</div><div>I no longer think=A0= <span style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial,sans-serif; fo= nt-size: 13px;">Bind Elements</span>=A0is a useful part of the game.=A0</di= v> <div>I would=A0rather=A0see them removed/fazzed out.</div><div>Characters w= ho have it should gain a full refund of: Training Time, Exp and Silver (whe= re needed).=A0</div><div><br></div><div>This should be put together with a = line of adventures along the lines of:</div> <div>"Have you seen our missing E<span style=3D"border-collapse: colla= pse; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">lements" and &qu= ot;The Return of the=A0</span><span style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; fon= t-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Bind Elements" and &quot= ;Fooled you,=A0</span><span style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; font-family= : arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Bind Elements be gone"</span></d= iv> <div><span style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial,sans-seri= f; font-size: 13px;">etc</span></div><div><span style=3D"border-collapse: c= ollapse; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br> </span></div><div>Jono</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div= class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On 11 April 2011 16:05, Struan Jud= d <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:slj@scifi.geek.nz" target=3D"_bla= nk">slj@scifi.geek.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb= (204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class= =3D"im">This has been attempted to be organized (a number of times to be su= re)<br> but got distracted by things more important to air mages (butterflies,<br> parrots, clouds, ...)<br> <br> TTFN,<br> </div><div><div></div><div><div class=3D"im"><br> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 16:02, Stephen Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:stephen= m@aklnz.net" target=3D"_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><= div class=3D"im"> > I'm just waiting for the Air Mage jihad to hunt down the Rune Mage= s that stole their ritual.<br> ><br> > On Mon, April 11, 2011 3:54 pm, Ian Wood wrote:<br> >><br> >> Yes I still find it trivial, and he will too when I roast his ches= tnuts over<br> >> the fire.<br> >><br> >><br> >> From: <a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank">d= q-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" t= arget=3D"_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] On Behalf Of Jim<br> >> Arona<br> >><br> >> Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has = backed up<br> >> the toilets in your castle?<br> >><br> ><br> ><br> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org= .nz" target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br> ><br> <br> <br> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" = target=3D"_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br> </div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Kind = regards,<br><br>Jonathan Bean<div>39 Sackville St, Grey Lynn</div><div>P: += 64 9 376 7309<br>M: +64 21 917 173<br>G: <a href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.c= om" target=3D"_blank">jonobean@gmail.com</a></div> <br> </div> </blockquote></div><br> --001636b147673f6e1c04a09cfdd8-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Ian Wood
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:07:04 +1200
That would make an interesting adventure, -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stephen Martin Sent: Monday, 11 April 2011 4:02 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements I'm just waiting for the Air Mage jihad to hunt down the Rune Mages that stole their ritual. On Mon, April 11, 2011 3:54 pm, Ian Wood wrote: > > Yes I still find it trivial, and he will too when I roast his chestnuts over > the fire. > > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jim > Arona > > Ah, but will it appear so trivial when a vindictive rune mage has backed up > the toilets in your castle? > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3564 - Release Date: 04/10/11 -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements
From	Michael Scott
Date	Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:52:05 +1200
--_37de9cbe-4015-4f4b-a4af-82a72e352672_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What about celestials? they are classed as elementals arn't they? =20 TTFN Michael =20 > Date: Mon=2C 11 Apr 2011 10:40:29 +1200 > Subject: Re: [dq] Rune College: Binding Elements > From: stephenm@aklnz.net > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >=20 > This made me curious about how the other Bind Elements compare=2C they do= n't. >=20 > Air - Can't. > Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk). > Fire (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) > Ice (750 EM Gen Ritual) - 5' radius (+5/rank) > Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Specified=2C all water within range? 10' = radius (+15/rank) > Rune (500 EM Spec Ritual) > - Air - 1=2C000 cubic feet (+500/rk) > - Earth - 500 lbs (+500/rk) > - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk) > - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk) > Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - Moulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - = a limited form of > Binding Elements. >=20 > I think that every Elemental College should be able to bind their Element= at a comparable level. > I don't think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Elem= ent as the college of > that element. >=20 >=20 > Proposed changes... >=20 > All Elemental Binding to be based on Volume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for t= he Elemental > Colleges=2C half that for Rune. > This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increase depends on type of= earth/stone)=3B no > change for Fire=3B a decrease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic= feet)=3B Rune will > generally decrease. >=20 > At rank 10 and higher Elem. Colleges can imbue it with rudimentary intell= igence - creating a > 'sprite'. >=20 > Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to make it permanent: > * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location. > * 4EN for permanent and moveable. > * Bind a sentient to create 'Bound' element that is permanent=2C fixed to= a location=2C may not be > affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in effect to Bo= und Earth. >=20 > Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritual of Binding Air. >=20 >=20 > Ideally Fire should go up to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM = General Rituals but > that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth. >=20 > Cheers=2C Stephen. >=20 > On Mon=2C April 11=2C 2011 12:31 am=2C Jim Arona wrote: > > The equation for the amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallon= s > > (+500 per Rank). > > A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means that at Rank 0=2C a Rune Ma= ge can > > bind just over 2 metric tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20. > > A more reasonable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank)=2C which will m= ake it > > somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A Rank= 20 > > ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water=2C which is still quit= e a > > bit. > > >=20 >=20 > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- = --_37de9cbe-4015-4f4b-a4af-82a72e352672_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <style><!-- .hmmessage P { margin:0px=3B padding:0px } body.hmmessage { font-size: 10pt=3B font-family:Tahoma } --></style> </head> <body class=3D'hmmessage'> What about celestials? they are classed as elementals arn't they?<BR> &nbsp=3B<BR> TTFN<BR> Michael<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR> &gt=3B Date: Mon=2C 11 Apr 2011 10:40:29 +1200<BR>&gt=3B Subject: Re: [dq] = Rune College: Binding Elements<BR>&gt=3B From: stephenm@aklnz.net<BR>&gt=3B= To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B This made me curious about how th= e other Bind Elements compare=2C they don't.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B Air - Can= 't.<BR>&gt=3B Earth (500 EM Spec Ritual) - 500 lbs (+500/rk).<BR>&gt=3B Fir= e (500 EM Gen Ritual) - 10 cubic feet (+10/rk)<BR>&gt=3B Ice (750 EM Gen Ri= tual) - 5' radius (+5/rank)<BR>&gt=3B Water (750 EM Gen Ritual) - Not Speci= fied=2C all water within range? 10' radius (+15/rank)<BR>&gt=3B Rune (500 E= M Spec Ritual)<BR>&gt=3B - Air - 1=2C000 cubic feet (+500/rk)<BR>&gt=3B - E= arth - 500 lbs (+500/rk)<BR>&gt=3B - Fire - 10 foot radius (+15/rk)<BR>&gt= =3B - Water - 500 gallons (+500/rk)<BR>&gt=3B Binder (400 EM Gen Spell) - M= oulding Elements - 2 cubic feet (+2/rank) - a limited form of<BR>&gt=3B Bin= ding Elements.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B I think that every Elemental College sh= ould be able to bind their Element at a comparable level.<BR>&gt=3B I don't= think that any other college should be as good at Binding an Element as th= e college of<BR>&gt=3B that element.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B Propos= ed changes...<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B All Elemental Binding to be based on Vol= ume. 10 cubic feet (+10/rk) for the Elemental<BR>&gt=3B Colleges=2C half th= at for Rune.<BR>&gt=3B This will be an increase for Earth (amount of increa= se depends on type of earth/stone)=3B no<BR>&gt=3B change for Fire=3B a dec= rease for Ice (currently 390 to 3.6 million cubic feet)=3B Rune will<BR>&gt= =3B generally decrease.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B At rank 10 and higher Elem. Co= lleges can imbue it with rudimentary intelligence - creating a<BR>&gt=3B 's= prite'.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B Elem. Colleges can spend EN from a sentient to= make it permanent:<BR>&gt=3B * 2EN for permanent but fixed to a location.<= BR>&gt=3B * 4EN for permanent and moveable.<BR>&gt=3B * Bind a sentient to = create 'Bound' element that is permanent=2C fixed to a location=2C may not = be<BR>&gt=3B affected by nor passed through by most magic - equivalent in e= ffect to Bound Earth.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B Air gains a 500 EM Special Ritua= l of Binding Air.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B Ideally Fire should go up= to a 750 EM and Air and Earth change to 750 EM General Rituals but<BR>&gt= =3B that's probably more hassle for existing characters than it's worth.<BR= >&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B Cheers=2C Stephen.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B On Mon=2C April = 11=2C 2011 12:31 am=2C Jim Arona wrote:<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B The equation for t= he amount of water a Rune Mage can bind is 500 gallons<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B (+5= 00 per Rank).<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B A gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. This means = that at Rank 0=2C a Rune Mage can<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B bind just over 2 metric = tonnes of the stuff and 48 tonnes at Rank 20.<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B A more reaso= nable amount is 100 gallons (+100 per Rank)=2C which will make it<BR>&gt=3B= &gt=3B somewhat congruent with the amount of earth that could be bound. A = Rank 20<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B ritual will bind about 10 metric tonnes of water= =2C which is still quite a<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B bit.<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B<BR>&gt=3B= <BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org= .nz --<BR> </body> </html>= --_37de9cbe-4015-4f4b-a4af-82a72e352672_-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --