The main problem with Alchemical poisons (i.e. synthetic poisons) are
that the most useful ones are the paralytics.
These are also the ones that cause the least amount of fun, at least
for a player. NPCs don't get to whinge on about how boring it is to be
paralysed, so it's impossible to know how they feel, but I would
warrant a guess that it's not in their top 5 things to do of a
Saturday night.
A poison that paralyses is, generally speaking, a diluted version of a
poison that will kill you stone dead. Measuring the dose accurately so
that the victim is not limited to post-mortem conversations is an art
worthy of its own Skill. More importantly, the only one I can think of
that will stop you moving in a few heartbeats is curare (a herbal
extract, as it happens), botulin or teratotoxin (and given the dosages
required, very tricky not to kill). Almost all paralytics take time to
work, and the victims are generally aware of the effects: dizziness,
debility etc.
Mind you, Alchemy could hardly be called the province of the
scientific, the rational or even the sane, so who knows what they
might be able to do.
Nevertheless, it seems more reasonable to get rid of paralytic
synthetic poisons, and leave their discovery to individual adventurers
and powerful NPCs.

On 12/05/2013, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> I had another thought recently, (but it wasnt about DQ sadly)
>
> So this will have to suffice:
>
> 1. All alchemical products should be quasi-magical, how else can a rock
> cause suffering?
> Or how can such a small amount of venom kill a horse?
>
> 2. We want to fear or loathe some NPCs (and some PCs too) such as the Drow,
> undead etc. Drow weapons should automatically carry a poison, perhaps an
> incapacitating one so they can haul the victims to the pits of pain, or
> slavery.
>
> 3. The human body has four principal members served by a network:
>  - brain and nerves
>  - heart and arteries
>  - liver a veins
>  - genitals and spermatic ducts (women too).
> A healthy balance of four humours were considered beneficial, and illness or
> death was due to an imballance. By extrapolation we would infer alchemical
> products to cause an imballance (poison) or ballance (healing potions and
> antidotes).
>
> The two pairs of humours (wet and dry: hot and cold) form the four:
>  - hot and wet (blood, air)
>  - hot and dry (red bile or choler, fire)
>  - cold and wet (phlegm, water)
>  - cold and dry (black bile, earth).
>
> A poison could be described as affecting one (or more) of the pairs.
> The victim would show symptoms, possibly alerting others to their malady,
> and giving hints as to the cure, or antidose. Thus a poison may attack the
> blood, causing the victim to become cold and dry: keeping them warm and
> hydrated may help them fight the poison.
>
> Different pairs would have different affects, in terms of effect, rapidity
> and duration.
>
> 4. all of the above is to add more flavour and remove the need to use modern
> medical science to explain why your PC is deader than a dead thing. Because
> alchemical products may not work in the same way as modern drugs and poisons
> such as polonium.
>
> 5. Some poisons may stop working when the victim falls unconscious.
>
> Ian
> --- On Sat, 11/5/13, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> From: Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz>
> Subject: Re: [dq] Alchimist synthetic poison duration question
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Date: Saturday, 11, May, 2013, 4:39 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Amen, hear him, etc.
>
> what he wrote.
>
> What the game needs is an Apocathery. Close enough to Apocalypse in the
> dictionary to give fair warning. There the nasty little spotty gits, who
> couldnt get a date to the prom, can buy all the nefarious nothings their
> noctural nutterings connect.
>
>
> I decided to look through DQ1 and 2 rules, and could find no reference to an
> Assassin being able to use poisons without risk of harm. Their only benefit
> is to purchase at cost price directly from an alchemist.
>
> Alchemists on the other hand have a goodly chance of killing themselves. "I
> retired my character through the artifice of learning alchemy, not very well
> as it turned out."
>
> The use of poison to kill another is hardly heroic.
> But then, many PCs aren't heroic.
>
> The rules may be useful to a GM through exposing the party to the fear of
> being poisoned.
>
> As I wrote below, the whole system is, to my limited imagination, poorly
> thought through, and seems to create two types: fast acting nerve toxins and
> slow acting blood agents.
>
> But then again, Herbalists weren't in those books either, and the game
> didn't suffer.
>
> Ian
> --- On Sat, 11/5/13, Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jim Arona <jim.arona@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [dq] Alchimist synthetic poison duration question
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Date: Saturday, 11, May, 2013, 3:48 PM
>
>
>
>
> It seems a little odd to arrange things so that our idea of fun accords with
> the rules, rather than making the rules reflect a happier playing
> environment.
>
> The rules are, at best, a model of 'shared reality'. They should never be
> given so much weight that they are not changed on the grounds that they were
> written on older paper.
>
> Further:
>
> By the way, a Rank 4 Healer has a chance of neutralising the poison, which
> is negatively modified by the Rank of the Alchemical poison. Each attempt
> costs 4 FT, a Pass Action and the use of a hand. Such a remedy is by no
> means certain, and in the heat of battle, may not even be likely.
>
>
> I agree with William. Alchemical poisons, as written,  lack all fun.
> Normally, since this is a game of imagination, I would encourage someone to
> come up with a cooler alternative on an individual basis. Diabolical, weird
> and unusual poisons are the very thing to cause people whose Profession
> starts with 'A' and ends with 'ssassin' to salivate, which is a good thing.
>
>
> But, this is a technology, accessible to anyone willing to pay for it, and
> dull as ditch water.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11 May 2013 13:08, Julia <juliamcspadden@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> isn't it super special fun that our big bad guy duo
>
>  if they have 25 ag.. can change weapons to new one every pulse, as a free
> action
>
> daggers are very light
>
> and do an extra 10 points of poison
>
> all while staying within the rules
>
>
>
> Julia <juliamcspadden@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>oh and btw..  if you work with an archer they can firing barbed arrows
>> which lower Ag until it gets under 12
>>
>>I kinda enjoy being scared of moonshae and raith..
>>
>>I think you should leave the rule alone...
>>
>>oh and your assassin could always be carrying 8 paralysis daggers instead.
>>
>>Julia <juliamcspadden@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>To use a poison
>>>
>>>you must be either an assassin or make a 3 x times md check , every time
>>> you handle your weapon.
>>>coat, ready , attack... etc
>>>
>>>The poidon lasts on the weapon until either 6 hours has past or a
>>> successful damage check is made.
>>>
>>>and can be cured by any rank 4 healer or rank 4 cure poison potion
>>>
>>>the few times I have had to pay a ressurection cost for not taking a
>>> healer on a game... Seemed fair
>>>
>>>Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Thanks all.
>>>>
>>>>I will encourage my GM to sign off on an  'alchemist rank' pulse
>>>> duration.
>>>>
>>>>Jono
>>>>On 11/05/2013 4:28 AM, "William Dymock-Johnson" <
>>>>dymockjohnsonwilliam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, a synthetic poison will kill the victim quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, it's a dumb rule and an unfun one. Don't use it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Ian Wood <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> who knows, it is poorly worded throughout.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would say it acts till death or neutralised, if the full dose is
>>>>>> administered - which is not a given.
>>>>>> Or perhaps a 1x EN roll, success meaning the administered dose is not
>>>>>> enough to kill.
>>>>>> Failure means enough of the poison or venom has worked its way into
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> victim's vitals to kill them.
>>>>>> Perhaps amputation of the affected part would help - probably a GM
>>>>>> call.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a confusion between a venom and a poison (venoms are
>>>>>> envenomated, poisons are (typically) ingested. Something i learnt
>>>>>> working
>>>>>> in the Australian bush.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is not much point in a poison that fails.
>>>>>> A low ranked poison gives the victim (or their party) time to notice
>>>>>> something is wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The rate of damage is startlingly high for a natural venom.
>>>>>> Arsenic is very slow, cyanide rather prompt. Neither makes for a very
>>>>>> good assassination.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Knowing the purpose of this part of the skill would be helpful, if
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> we had a document that laid out the point behind the rules, say a
>>>>>> GM's-guide.
>>>>>> do we want death by poison/venom/toxin in the game?
>>>>>> do we want fear of incapacitation by the above in the game?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On *Fri, 10/5/13, Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk>* wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Bernard Hoggins <nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [dq] Alchimist synthetic poison duration question
>>>>>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
>>>>>> Date: Friday, 10, May, 2013, 9:53 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I had always assumed alchemist rank pulses. Otherwise it's an
>>>>>> automatic kill unless the party has a high enough ranked healer.
>>>>>> Which
>>>>>> seems far too powerful for the prices involved.
>>>>>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From: *Julia <juliamcspadden@gmail.com>;
>>>>>> *To: *<dq@dq.sf.org.nz>;
>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [dq] Alchimist synthetic poison duration question
>>>>>> *Sent: *Thu, May 9, 2013 6:18:00 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   correct
>>>>>> Sent from Huawei Mobile
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jonathan Bean <jonobean@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Am I correct in thinking that; Alchemist manufactured Synthetic
>>>>>> > Poison
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> >act per pulse until cured?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I ask this because I can not find a reference to a duration of the
>>>>>> > poison
>>>>>> >within the skill.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >--
>>>>>> >Kind regards,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Jonathan Bean
>>>>>> >39 Sackville St, Grey Lynn
>>>>>> >P: +64 9 378 6635
>>>>>> >M: +64 21 917 173
>>>>>> >G: jonobean@gmail.com
>>>>>> ¶‹§²æìr¸›zz-‰ü¦j)m¡Ú«z«ž²×j±ú+‚|
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>


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